carbs before bed?

[jmma062803]

hello peps! just want to ask if its okay to take in carbs before bed on bulking phase? or would it be better to just take protein? o yea im a little chunky on the mid section (endomorph), i have a pretty good muscle mass as well. any advice?

 

[Mindless]

No carbs for you!
Protein and a spoon or two of EVOO.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

I'm an endo as well. I find that eating carbs before bed are okay, so long as they are veggies and/or something that is very fiber heavy (like 8+ grams of fiber).

That also being said, you should be doing 3-4 30 minute sessions of cardio per week. Guys like you and I have no problems gaining muscle, we just have fat that comes with it and we need to keep it in check.

 

[Grambo]

It is going to be overall carb intake more than anything but I woudl definitley not eat carbs and then go to sleep. If you tend to put on fat night time carbs are probably best to be avoided or only use vegetables.

 

[GeekPoop]

Id reccomend casein protien if anything, before bed

 

[celc5]

This is probably the worst part of my diet. I feel hungry no matter how much protein and healthy fats I take in before bed... wake up like every 2 hours wanting some freakin steak and potatoes when I don't eat carbs before bed :rant:

Prebed meal is usually 3 egg whites, 3 whole eggs, 3 slices turkey (onion, green pepper, etc in an omelet)... sometimes I throw in extra almonds for more fats. I end up awake and hungry in 2 hours and never satisfied until I eat a typical meal that has 40g carbs :rant: :rant:

 

[lennoxchi]

something that helped me not eat carbs before bed is realizing carbs are used for energy, if I'm going to sleep how much energy do i really need. always ask yourself one thing while getting ready to eat something no matter what it is..."what am i going to be doing for the next 3 hours?". it takes the body about 3 to 4 hours to empty.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

More importantly, make sure any carbs you eat late in the evening with fats and protein. They will help slow the digestion of the carbs.

For example, at 10pm every night I eat 4 whole eggs and two pieces of whole wheat double fiber bread (20g of carbs per slice with 6g of fiber in each slice)

 

[planetfuzz]

It is going to be overall carb intake more than anything but I woudl definitley not eat carbs and then go to sleep. If you tend to put on fat night time carbs are probably best to be avoided or only use vegetables.

Exactly! I hate it when people say "if you eat carbs before bed they get stored as fat". Well, maybe more so then before strenuous exercise but it is overall calorie intake which matters.

I am ecto to the extreme but I limit carbs before bed simply because I sleep better. Like Lennoxchi said, I think about what I am gonna be doing. I load up on fat before bed.

If you have trouble feeling satiated before bed, a few spoonfuls of coconut oil should do the trick.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Exactly! I hate it when people say "if you eat carbs before bed they get stored as fat". Well, maybe more so then before strenuous exercise but it is overall calorie intake which matters.

I am ecto to the extreme but I limit carbs before bed simply because I sleep better. Like Lennoxchi said, I think about what I am gonna be doing. I load up on fat before bed.

If you have trouble feeling satiated before bed, a few spoonfuls of coconut oil should do the trick.

Yep. At the end of the day it's a numbers game....calories in - calories out

 

[celc5]

"what am i going to be doing for the next 3 hours?"

Good idea. I suppose "cleaning up" a diet is 90% psychological. In the case of night time carbs, I suppose I'm weak minded... which makes me vulnerable to the force :hypnotized:

 

[planetfuzz]

Good idea. I suppose "cleaning up" a diet is 90% psychological. In the case of night time carbs, I suppose I'm weak minded... which makes me vulnerable to the force :hypnotized:

I like eat most of my food early in the day and of course lots of fat keeps the appetite at bay.

 

[timmmah]

something that helped me not eat carbs before bed is realizing carbs are used for energy, if I'm going to sleep how much energy do i really need. always ask yourself one thing while getting ready to eat something no matter what it is..."what am i going to be doing for the next 3 hours?". it takes the body about 3 to 4 hours to empty.

Exactly, no carbs after 5 P.M.

 

[planetfuzz]

Exactly, no carbs after 5 P.M.

I don't think you need to obsess over it though. If there are 6 grams of carbs in your cottage cheese you'll live.

 

[Nitrox]

something that helped me not eat carbs before bed is realizing carbs are used for energy, if I'm going to sleep how much energy do i really need. always ask yourself one thing while getting ready to eat something no matter what it is..."what am i going to be doing for the next 3 hours?". it takes the body about 3 to 4 hours to empty.

If your base metabolism is say 1800 calories/day and you sleep for 8 hours then your body will need 600 calories and maybe more to build muscle if bulking.

 

[timmmah]

If your base metabolism is say 1800 calories/day and you sleep for 8 hours then your body will need 600 calories and maybe more to build muscle if bulking.

1800 a meal? Or day?

 

[Nitrox]

1800 a meal? Or day?

Not sure what you are asking. Base metabolism is the amount of energy required to fuel basic metobolic processes. 1800 cals/day is a ballpark figure of what an avg guy burns just to keep the body alive.

 

[timmmah]

So..... a guy in a coma?

 

[Nitrox]

So..... a guy in a coma?

1800 calories

heart is still beating, lungs still breathing, hair still growing, etc...

 

[planetfuzz]

If your base metabolism is say 1800 calories/day and you sleep for 8 hours then your body will need 600 calories and maybe more to build muscle if bulking.

That is interesting. I knew that for the average guy, 1800 calories was about the bmr. Where did you get 600 cals from, Nitrox? Just curious.

 

[Nitrox]

That is interesting. I knew that for the average guy, 1800 calories was about the bmr. Where did you get 600 cals from, Nitrox? Just curious.

Just a quick and dirty calculation. 1800 cals/day = 75 cals/hour. If you sleep for 8 hours then your BMR will burn through 8*75 = 600 cals in that period.

Was just to shed light on the myth that carb (or any macro for that matter) consumption before sleeping exclusively leads to fat gain. For that to happen the amount of calories consumed would have to exceed what your BMR is still using.

 

[planetfuzz]

Just a quick and dirty calculation. 1800 cals/day = 75 cals/hour. If you sleep for 8 hours then your BMR will burn through 8*75 = 600 cals in that period.

Was just to shed light on the myth that carb (or any macro for that matter) consumption before sleeping exclusively leads to fat gain. For that to happen the amount of calories consumed would have to exceed what your BMR is still using.

Hmm, very interesting.

That is a good way to explain it to someone. I hate hearing people say that carbs are stored as fat if they are eaten before bed. The principles are the same as when awake. If you eat more calories than you burn, you gain weight. Regardless of what macro nutrients they are.

 

[Grambo]

The thing with carbohydrates is the insulin actions when ingesting them. Taking in sugar and processed wheat would lead to large spike just before bed and with no activity other than normal BMR (which is obviously not equal through out the day and lowers at night) there is a higher probability of storage vs use, especially if you have exceeded caloric intake for the day already.

 

[planetfuzz]

The thing with carbohydrates is the insulin actions when ingesting them. Taking in sugar and processed wheat would lead to large spike just before bed and with no activity other than normal BMR (which is obviously not equal through out the day and lowers at night) there is a higher probability of storage vs use, especially if you have exceeded caloric intake for the day already.

Yeah but what if you are bulking or a bulking ecto?

 

[Grambo]

Yeah but what if you are bulking or a bulking ecto?

I still wouldn't eat a huge meal before bed no matter what personally. Get the majority of the food in during the rest of the day. And if you are bulking up I would say stick with protein and fats closer to bedtimes (and I don't mean 5pm I mean like 30-hour before you are laying down.)

I would 100% avoid high GI carbs and sugar. Though I would hope that was avoiding most of the time anyway

 

[Nitrox]

The thing with carbohydrates is the insulin actions when ingesting them. Taking in sugar and processed wheat would lead to large spike just before bed and with no activity other than normal BMR (which is obviously not equal through out the day and lowers at night) there is a higher probability of storage vs use, especially if you have exceeded caloric intake for the day already.

Hmm where to start.

The importance of insulin response control in bodyweight management it is very overrated. Insulin action is much more complicated than what the bb nutrition gurus have led people to believe (btw I am diabetic and I use the stuff 6x per day).

Eating carbs does not lead to an insulin 'spike.' I need to take 1 unit for an apple and 2-3 for a 3 egg and cheese omelette (no carbs). Which one do you call a spike? It is not a yes or no condition. It is quantitative with the main factor being how much actual food is consumed. However, since people have no practical way to measure their insulin levels they have no choice but to buy into this oversimplification that any quantity of carb will spike insulin and those spikes cause fat gain. It's caca.

 

[Grambo]

Hmm where to start.

The importance of insulin response control in bodyweight management it is very overrated. Insulin action is much more complicated than what the bb nutrition gurus have led people to believe (btw I am diabetic and I use the stuff 6x per day).

Eating carbs does not lead to an insulin 'spike.' I need to take 1 unit for an apple and 2-3 for a 3 egg and cheese omelette (no carbs). Which one do you call a spike? It is not a yes or no condition. It is quantitative with the main factor being how much actual food is consumed. However, since people have no practical way to measure their insulin levels they have no choice but to buy into this oversimplification that any quantity of carb will spike insulin and those spikes cause fat gain. It's caca.

Pull back the attitude just a little there. You are correct that insulin is more than just spikes and something that makes you fat and is not as simple as it may be played out to be.

Eating any type of food leads to a rise in insulin (better sounding than a spike?) when blood glucose levels rise. Carbohydrates alone have a higher increase than other macros.

Blood glucose levels rise the most with high amounts of simple sugars, thus a higher amount of insulin needed to reduce levels. When glucose has been shuttled to needed areas of the body (brain, muscle and liver glycogen, etc) and there is an abundance it definitely gets stored. I don't think anyone was stating that eating any type of carb makes you fat.

Are you saying that the type of food doesn't matter? (just trying to see exactly what you are saying).

 

[BigBCanada]

I don't eat carbs before going to bed but I do have carbs 3 hours before going to bed. (My last meal before cottage cheese.)

 

[Nitrox]

Pull back the attitude just a little there. You are correct that insulin is more than just spikes and something that makes you fat and is not as simple as it may be played out to be.

Eating any type of food leads to a rise in insulin (better sounding than a spike?) when blood glucose levels rise. Carbohydrates alone have a higher increase than other macros.

Blood glucose levels rise the most with high amounts of simple sugars, thus a higher amount of insulin needed to reduce levels. When glucose has been shuttled to needed areas of the body (brain, muscle and liver glycogen, etc) and there is an abundance it definitely gets stored. I don't think anyone was stating that eating any type of carb makes you fat.

Are you saying that the type of food doesn't matter? (just trying to see exactly what you are saying).

No attitude meant just trying to be efficient and stating my views with a little conviction because I have found it otherwise futile to go against the establishment.

You are correct that calorie for calorie, carbs require the most insulin to metabolize. The error comes when people compare the resulting insulin levels from different macros on an equal basis. For example 100 cals of carbs will boost insulin more than 100 cals of fat but that does not mean that more of the carb meal will be converted to fat. Both are still 100 calories - no more no less (law of conservation of energy). In fact, carbs can be stored first as glycogen and then whatever is left will go to fat. Fat on the other hand cannot be converted to glycogen thus it is less versatile. What fat does have going for it is that it is more gradually absorbed. However total calorie content should be the first and foremost consideration.

I am not saying that food type doesn't matter because that would be another absolute that is open to misinterpretation. What I am saying is that if you have your calories in check and if you are eating relatively whole food (as in not a cup of dextrose) then one does not have to be so obsessive as to exclude certain macros from certain meals or periods of the day. If I have 500 cals left in my daily meal plan, I think nothing of have them as a 30P/40C/30F meal before bed.

 

[planetfuzz]

Hmm where to start.

The importance of insulin response control in bodyweight management it is very overrated. Insulin action is much more complicated than what the bb nutrition gurus have led people to believe (btw I am diabetic and I use the stuff 6x per day).

Eating carbs does not lead to an insulin 'spike.' I need to take 1 unit for an apple and 2-3 for a 3 egg and cheese omelette (no carbs). Which one do you call a spike? It is not a yes or no condition. It is quantitative with the main factor being how much actual food is consumed. However, since people have no practical way to measure their insulin levels they have no choice but to buy into this oversimplification that any quantity of carb will spike insulin and those spikes cause fat gain. It's caca.

Makes sense "insulin spike" are just other buzz words that marketers can use on people. I say the rise and fall of insulin is no different than the sun going up and down.

 

[Grambo]

Makes sense "insulin spike" are just other buzz words that marketers can use on people. I say the rise and fall of insulin is no different than the sun going up and down.

It's called that more often than not because of how a graph looks from measurements of blood glucose. Sometimes it's more like a plateau or slow rise and fall depending on the macros and amounts.

Not sure what you mean with the sun analogy ha