ive seen it many places, but i don't understand the logic. people say that it raises your metabolism so you get rid of glycogen faster. however,since it is a MCT, and is burned quickly for energy( like carbs supposedly), wouldn't your body burn the MCT, instead of glycogen, therefore stalling ketosis?

i just did some quick research through google, and the majority of articles state that coconut oil is essential in quickly reaching ketosis. check out this link. the girl sounds pretty knowledgeable. http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...l-ketosis.html
hope it helps!

on that site she says ''Because depletion of muscle glycogen is a factor in fatigue, ingestion of MCT oil could provide the body with an immediate source of fat that is rapidly broken down for energy thus muscle glycogen stores are not used up as quickly and the onset of fatigue is delayed.''


you WANT to use up as much glycogen as fast as you can. you don't want an alternative energy source so your body doesn't use glycogen. you cannot go into ketosis until your glycogen stores are used up. therefore, by her own admission, the oil slows the ketosis process.

i don't understand her logic whatsoever unless she thinks that the oil will increase your metabolism long after it is metabolized for energy, and therefore your body will burn up glycogen faster. i'm not sure what she thinks. i appreciate you looking it up though. i found that site last night as well.

also, read steveoh's post again.

does coconut oil make you reach ketosis faster?

edit: you have mayhem twice in your sig FYI

Originally Posted by soontobbeast

edit: you have mayhem twice in your sig FYI

yes, i know good sir. there is always a lot of mayhem when i come around, and i am def a master of it!

Their is no real magic way to get to Ketosis. Burning through your glycogen stores is the way to get there. If your body has carbs available, it will burn those.

There's a big difference between dietary carbs and muscle glycogen.

By eliminating dietary carbs, you cause your body to switch from burning carbs ('cause they're not available) to burning fat - and voila: you're in ketosis!

Glycogen stores are another matter entirely: glycogen stored in the muscle is used directly BY the muscle during exercise; it is not available in the bloodstream, and triggers no insulin surge. It is burned up by your workouts...which is why workouts on a CKD go from strong to weak: as you approach re-feed, your glycogen stores bottom out, *BECAUSE* you've used up your glycogen & have no fuel left for the workout. BUT IF YOU ARE NOT IN KETOSIS THE WHOLE TIME, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Let me say this very clearly, and please, don't mind the caps:

THE WHOLE POINT OF THE CARB-UP / RE-FEED IS TO REPLENISH GLYCOGEN...SO YOU CAN CONTINUE TO WORK OUT...SO YOU MAXIMIZE YOUR FAT-BURNING & DON'T LOSE MUSCLE WHILE YOU'RE IN KETOSIS.

That said, I haven't used coconut oil/MCTs; I fail to see how exactly they would help the transition into ketosis more than any other fat, as the "burnability" of the extra fat @ the front-end is immaterial to your body's making the switch from insulin to ketones. Once you're IN ketosis, it may well be that CO/MCT could make your workouts more energetic/fierce/whatever - but that's a completely different part of the equation!

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by BodyWizard

There's a big difference between dietary carbs and muscle glycogen.

By eliminating dietary carbs, you cause your body to switch from burning carbs ('cause they're not available) to burning fat - and voila: you're in ketosis!

Glycogen stores are another matter entirely: glycogen stored in the muscle is used directly BY the muscle during exercise; it is not available in the bloodstream, and triggers no insulin surge. It is burned up by your workouts...which is why workouts on a CKD go from strong to weak: as you approach re-feed, your glycogen stores bottom out, *BECAUSE* you've used up your glycogen & have no fuel left for the workout. BUT IF YOU ARE NOT IN KETOSIS THE WHOLE TIME, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Let me say this very clearly, and please, don't mind the caps:

THE WHOLE POINT OF THE CARB-UP / RE-FEED IS TO REPLENISH GLYCOGEN...SO YOU CAN CONTINUE TO WORK OUT...SO YOU MAXIMIZE YOUR FAT-BURNING & DON'T LOSE MUSCLE WHILE YOU'RE IN KETOSIS.

That said, I haven't used coconut oil/MCTs; I fail to see how exactly they would help the transition into ketosis more than any other fat, as the "burnability" of the extra fat @ the front-end is immaterial to your body's making the switch from insulin to ketones. Once you're IN ketosis, it may well be that CO/MCT could make your workouts more energetic/fierce/whatever - but that's a completely different part of the equation!

Hope this helps.

Glycogen is essentially stored glucose. Your body can hold about 2000 calories worth of energy in this form in muscles and in the liver. You need to burn through that to get into Ketosis. It's why you aren't suddenly in a state of ketosis the second you cut out all carbs from your diet and why you can see a delay after a refeed and possibly slight weight gain (water and glycogen) after a refeed. You're right it does not cause an insulin response (no need, it's already in the muscle) but it will be used as fuel regardless during activity. If it's being used as fuel, you're not using fat as fuel.

Originally Posted by joeflex73

Glycogen is essentially stored glucose. Your body can hold about 2000 calories worth of energy in this form in muscles and in the liver.

True

Originally Posted by joeflex73

You need to burn through that to get into Ketosis. It's why you aren't suddenly in a state of ketosis the second you cut out all carbs from your diet and why you can see a delay after a refeed and possibly slight weight gain (water and glycogen) after a refeed.

Not so true.

You're right it does not cause an insulin response (no need, it's already in the muscle) but I believe you're wrong about why: circulating blood glucose stimulates the insulin release, which distributes the glucose to the liver for conversion to glycogen, and thence to the muscles. Once it's glycogen, it no longer has the insulin-triggering effect of glucose, its transport or use in the body will not affect insulin levels - and so will have no impact on your entering ketosis.

The reason you don't go instantly into ketosis once you've stopped eating carbs has to do with the speed of metabolic processes. It will take time for the body to digest, process and use the food, and then some time to experience an energy deficit. Only at this point, when the body is searching for something to digest, is is ready to engage the ketone-creating breakdown & combustion of the stored fat. Once it begins to do so, it will continue to burn stored fat - as long as there is no significant mass of carbs in your systems - and as long as dietary fat is low enough that your body isn't just meeting its calorie quota from the diet.

Weight gain after a refeed, and delay in returning to ketosis after a refeed are the result of spillover, the calories consumed during the refeed in excess of what it takes to replenish your body's glycogen stores.

all of this being said, should i be working out at the gym while in ketosis ? i do cardio, but the thought of tearing muscle down without being able to replenish muscles with glycogen leads me to believe there will be a loss of Lean body mass.

Yes, if you don't work out ketosis wont be as effective. You use the glycogen thats stored in your liver as previous mentioned when you work out. The first time I did ketosis, I didn't do sprints on my non workout days, so I basically dropped water and probably at max 3 lbs over 8 weeks. If its alright, I'd add my own question since I'm also in ketosis: how long can you go between refeeds? 5 days seems like too little of time to me but what is there like a set maximum amount of days you cant go past? Also, if those days start to add up, would a second string of workouts be detrimental or beneficial?

The longest I've gone in ketosis is two weeks before an immense refeed. The reason I decided to go two weeks is because I was unable to go to the gym to work out and wanted to drop into a deeper level of keto. however, if you are going to the gym every day at least four days a week for a relatively intense workout you should have at least one medium to high carb meal a week. if you don't you are opening yourself up to muscle fatigue, if your muscles run out of the stored gylcogen, you will feel like copmletely sh*t, and trust me you havent felt it yet... imo if you go to the gym, workout heavy, you need to refeed your muscles at least once a week.

refeeds are also when your muscles grow, not only because they are swelling with gylcogen, but also because of the influx of carbs, your body will turn anabolic.

Coconut oil and keto does not work for me. I know this because I tried it a while back. for three weeks I ate coconut oil, and according to the crappy keto sticks and a glucose meters, I was never in keto.

Originally Posted by benj851

and according to the crappy keto sticks and a glucose meters, I was never in keto.

keto sticks are highly inaccurate.

i don't take coco oil to get to keto, it might be useful while in keto though.

and yeah like capone said, keto sticks are useless. very very easy to dilute the sample.

Coconut oil is a miracle product really. I cook with it and put it in my tea, and Ive noticed that my metabolism got faster after about 4 months of doing this. It is just as quick as when I was 18. I also use it as hairgel sometimes, amazing moisturerizer, sun burn relief, kills jockitch/any fungus. I highly recommend looking it up, it has tons of other uses for natural healing etc.

Originally Posted by soontobbeast

and yeah like capone said, keto sticks are useless. very very easy to dilute the sample.

Without the keto-stix, you're guessing - and liable to guess wrong, as guessing is far more inaccurate than using the sticks. They DO have a shelf-life, though, so you have to pay attention (just like anything else).

"[E]asy to dilute the sample"? Sorry, I just don't know what you think you mean w/ this: you piss on the freakin business end of the stick & it changes color. If someone is diluting it for you, I suggest you lock the bathroom door for a minute.

Originally Posted by soontobbeast

all of this being said, should i be working out at the gym while in ketosis ? i do cardio, but the thought of tearing muscle down without being able to replenish muscles with glycogen leads me to believe there will be a loss of Lean body mass.

YES you should be working out.

Before you pursue this plan, I advise you to read "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald - or just search here on "targeted ketogenic" or "cyclical ketogenic". Glycogen depletion being the name of this particular game. Are you intending to do TKD or CKD? How do YOU think you'll know you're meeting your goals & not just horsing around?

You're new here: spend some time reading the archives. It'll be a real education for you.

i am on day 7 of CKD. i am planning on doing a refeed on the 11th, saturday. then once a week every saturday.

i am gonna do this for 8 weeks. i should be pretty shredded by then.


edit : what i meant by ''dilute'' is the fact that if you drink less water, the stick will show a darker color, and if you drink tons of water it will show up very faint. furthermore, i dont need keto sticks to tell me if i am in keto. the fact that my breath smell changes, my sweat smell changes, and i wake up more tired tells me i am in keto. i am certainly not guessing.

and by the way, it is ok for you to not know what i mean, but please, don't ever say this again ''I just don't know what you think you mean''. as if i could possibly NOT KNOW what I mean.

Originally Posted by BodyWizard

Without the keto-stix, you're guessing - and liable to guess wrong, as guessing is far more inaccurate than using the sticks.

I disagree. If you dont eat carbs you go into ketosis. No guessing required. give it 3 or 4 days and you will defiantely be in ketosis. Its a fact, not a guess. Just keep track of carbs and make sure you take in less than 25g a day. That should be easy enough to keep track of.

I'll leave y'all to it, then.

Coconut oil is supposed to be god for ketosis AND your thyroid. Ufortunatley, I've ben looking all over the place, and I can't find anyone talking about results.