carb spillover pwo bro science?
- 06-12-2009, 03:37 PM
carb spillover pwo bro science?
I keep hearing all kinds of people talk about carb spillover and going to fat once muscle glycogen is refilled. I train for usually two hours one hr lifting 45 mins running 15 abs. For pwo I have 20g wms with bcaas+EAAS and creatine, +20 minutes skim milk and wpi +1 hr 50 -60 g carbs from barley, rice, sweetpotato green veggies and some lean meat ie chicken, tuna shrimp something like that so in about two hours pwo Im consuming around 100g carbs which is half my intake per day roughly. pre workout is usualy 50 g carbs from oatmeal or go lean cereal and bananas, honey etc basically a combo of complex and simple carbs. I usually take r-ala and 500 mg yellow gold before my whole food ppwo meal. Im 5'7'' and only weigh 110, Im trying to gain some weight and stay as lean as possible, is this too many carbs pwo or does it all come down to calories in vs calories out for the total day? the idea of carb spillover seems kind of bro science to me and I mainly hear talk about it on a different forum I wont mention
- 06-12-2009, 05:07 PM
broscience to the max. calories in vs calories out is all you need to keep in mind.
to recover to the fullest extent possible the guideline is to take in 0.8g carbs per lb of bodyweight immediately after workout and then to continue intaking that amount every 2 hrs.
if youre trying to grow you need carbs wayyyyy more than protein. your macro breakdown should be something on the order of 65/20/15 C/P/F
you should not at all be concerned w/ staying as lean as possible. YOURE 110 LBS!!!
you ARE as lean as possible. eat and grow. simple as that.
- 06-12-2009, 05:13 PM
also quit running if you're trying to put on weight. just work out w/ intensity and you're getting all the cardio you need. chill out, quit working out so much. train hard, eat hard, rest hard. repeat. no going to the gym everyday for two hours.
06-12-2009, 05:40 PM
much agreed. if you weigh 110 and want to gain weight, stop running and just eat. You'll be so proud of yourself in 100lbs
06-12-2009, 06:08 PM
yeah, god bless, at 110 don't worry too much about adding a little fat
06-12-2009, 06:17 PM
hey sanchez. how much glycogen you deplete is entirely personal too. there are plenty of people who workout for 2 hours, doing weights, cardio, and perhaps abs too, but glycogen depletion could vary dramatically. we have no idea how hard you work, how intense your cardio is, and your personal genetics that contribute to how your body uses energy. some have even said that during high intensity workouts 90% of energy is derived from gluconeogenisis, which means less glycogen depletion, more protein burning... so who knows where you fall.
calories in vs calories out is important because you only gave us a snapshot of what you eat in a day... if you spillover after your workout, but don't eat enough afterwards, then you technically could maintain equilibrium.
I find that to optimize everything [which is what you are asking to do] you have to know everything.
if you know your calories in per day, your macros, and your daily weight THEN repeat that over a week you get a very good idea of how your body responds to what you are doing, and that is the bottom line. then you can divide up your meals to preferentially be larger and higher carb around workout times, but still follow the daily macros and calories that are helping you gain weight slowly..
and you are starting off small at 110lbs. this is a TOTAL ballpark number, but if you can gain 0.5->1lb per week, and not noticeably getting fatter then you are doing things correctly.
At a weight of about 160 right now, I like to gain 1lb a week as I'm eating over my mainteance by probably 500 calories. if I feel I look too fat while gaining, then I may cut down the carbs and overall calories. If my weight doesn't change over a week, I may add a few hundred calories.
get the body moving in the direction you want, and once it stalls, change something slightly. if you can do that, then you are ahead of 99% of most people who just guess what is going on.
06-12-2009, 07:05 PM
Thanks for the responses much appreciated. and ive been constantly gaining to be exact ive gained 28lbs in 4 months and im guessing around 5-6% bf so i must be doing something right I guess
06-12-2009, 07:08 PM
06-12-2009, 08:26 PM
82 lbs when i got out of the hospital. ive never been over 125 but neway long story short I was working graveyards from 4pm to 4am then school from 6am-10am, then gym one hour some days then sleep 4-5 hrs and do it again. from all the stress with everything going on in my life I started dropping weight fast only ate about two or three meals a day and these werent by any means real meals i mean a meal was a salad or one kashi go lean bar whatever I could grab. I pretty much became anorexic Idk i think that was due to the stress once again and that was the one thing i could control if that makes sense. And before that I was in county for 7 months and didnt eat much in there so i havent been over 125 like I said before but to answer your other ?s im 19 and im not completely back to where I want to be strength wise and mentally i wanna at least bulk up to 140-150 by the end of the year and ive been seeing an endo for extremely low test levels, ive talked about it on other posts but first result was <20ng/ml, second test was like 50ng/ml and the last one three weeks ago was 83ng/ml so I have another lab scheduled this week and if its still low it looks like either androgel and lh/fsh shots so I can actually have my boys making juice lol, but trt at 19 and for life idk about that it has positives and negatives i guess. Im sure alot of people wouldnt mine some test cyp or some other injection every week. Im wondering if hcg and some nolva or clomid might jumpstart my endogenous production that way I dont have to suppress it with the androgel. ive been taking stoked for the last two weeks stacked with formex so Im curious to see what effect its had on my test level and all the other hormones.
06-12-2009, 08:54 PM
hey man that's brutal. just keep in mind that as you go along you're going to have to eat more and more to see better results. don't be scared to eat a lot. healthy fats from raw nuts and olive oil will go a longggg way to helping test levels.
sounds like you're doin pretty well.. my only real suggestion is just to cut out the cardio so you can devote all that energy to muscle growth and keep on growin brotha.
good luck in your quest.
06-12-2009, 08:57 PM
06-12-2009, 09:00 PM
yeah, definitely don't worry about gaining a little fat. with also adding muscle when you get to the weight you want to be, it will be easy to loose. so dont undereat trying to avoid the fat, let it start to come on, then slowly lower eating if it is starting to tack on
06-12-2009, 10:31 PM
yeah its been a long four months i try to just take it one day at a time and set goals for myself i mean i kno its all in my head but it ****in sucks, when i came out of the hospital I got a nutritionist and I started off eating only 1000 cals a day so my body could start to adjust and avoid refeeding syndrome which could be fatal. at first my diet had zero fat pretty much and ive just been adding more everyday. what do you guys think about the scivation lean mass diet? is it a pretty good diet plan? Next week Im thinking about starting it because right now im eating 1850-1900 cals a day and the lowest plan is 2000 so I want to try it and prove to myself eating more than 30g of fat a day doesnt mean im gonna get fat it means im gonna build muscle faster and make me healthier. Oh yeah a question regarding pwo I just started using waxy maize just cause I got a tub of glucevol for free and I was wondering if it causes an insulin spike or not and whats the GI of it because I dont like the whole high gi pwo spike idea and dont think its necessary
06-12-2009, 11:44 PM
the primary role of dietary fat is to regulate hormone levels.... think of fat as free steroids, for real. if you can ensure that most of the fat you take in is healthy your hormone levels will shoot through the roof!!! since your just getting into the swing of things diet wise the best supplement you can use/get is fat my man! i mean it! really go out of your way to eat avocado, raw nuts, and olive oil. start there and see how your test results come back.
as far as waxy maize goes.... i have used it pwo on the order of 160g at a time and seen zero fat gain... whereas i can use 80g table sugar and see noticable pudge w/in 24 hrs. i'm not sure if it causes a spike or not but i can say from personal experience that i got great gains with it and little to no fat gain. i say give it a shot.
06-13-2009, 12:18 AM
yea the whole dextrose and malto never appealed to me I tried it once and after that never again felt sick to my stomach and crashed after bouncing off the walls for an hour. Thanks for all the help bro much appreciated
06-14-2009, 07:03 PM
yeah, fat generally is added more over insulin spikes than dietary fat intake (other than the fact that dietary fats allow for more calories to be taken in easier). If you view the biological pathway your body processes fats, proteins and carbs though you'll understand that at the same total calories per day, the difference between taking in 30g of fats and 80g of fats (assuming the 450 cals get made up for by reducing carbs by 112g) is 0
06-15-2009, 08:47 PM
really ? I had no idea thanks for the info very helpful ive been having trouble adding calories because I dont want to eat too much dietary fat because I havent had any in so long and two i make up the calories by eating literally lbs of fibrous veggies it seems like but ive been upping my fat intake everyday today was around 35g i know still have a long way to go but im really starting to get over the whole anorexic thinking because i just wanna build as much strength and muscle as possible.
06-15-2009, 08:59 PM
natural peanut butter with no additives can be a great friend
06-16-2009, 03:37 PM
i prefer almond butter especially since i can get fresh ground almond butter with no sugar no nothing added just pure ground almonds from this machine at my grocery store and its delicious
06-16-2009, 03:40 PM
06-16-2009, 11:04 PM
06-17-2009, 10:51 AM
its hard not to do cardio I played travel soccer since I was 8 so running has always been second nature when it comes to training. but since Im here would you guys mind critiquing my diet for today and give me some feedback. Id appreciate it , I think im making progress so well see. hopefully I do this right bear with me
6 am steel cut oats, half banana, half serving of go lean cereal, whey- multi v, 400 mg yellow gold 15 minutes before meal, 2 fish oil caps, 1 cla, 2 activate xtreme 1 stoked
52 g carbs 6 fat 23 protein
715 pre workout cytonox sample
35 cal 9 carbs
8-10 drive to gym workout, 20 g wms + Lg BCAA+EAA +Creatine mono taken after workout
20 g carbs 80 cals
1030 pwo whey, skim milk, yogurt, peaches
1.5 fat, 35 protein, 34 carbs
1130 ppwo shrimp with whole wheat pasta, homemade pasta sauce, and a small sweet potato. 200 mg RALA taken 15 min before
45g carbs, 17 protein, 2.5 fat
230-300 omelet with 7 egg whites, spinach tomato asparagus jalapenos, EVOO on top after done cooking + 1 CLA cap
5-10 carbs (Fibrous) 3.5 fat 28 protein 200 cals
630 homemade sesame chicken 6 oz. sauteed in pam, side of steamed cruciferous veggies (Broccol, cauliflower, brussel sprouts something like that), Udos oil on veggies +1 CLA cap 2 fish oil caps 340 cal
25 carbs all fibrous, 6 g fat, 36 protein
900 casein shake, 2 activate extreme 2 stoked, 1 tbsp almond butter, celery sticks
290 cals around 10 g carbs, 9 fat, 30 protein
Totals: about 1900 calories, 28.5 g fat, 195 carbs, 169 protein
also with some meals I add garlic and onion and stuff that doesnt really need to be counted since im trying to gain, fat intake doesnt include fishoils and cla, and I dont know if bcaas and EAAS have caloric value or not and ive never counted them so i still dont. let me know where I can improve THanks guys for all the help and support it is really much appreciated, I find this board to be alot more welcoming and actually helpfull and is filled with some smart people. other places i find a bunch of teenagers and bros spilling out useless nonsense that doesnt help at all or they just want to flame you for asking for help.
06-17-2009, 12:19 PM
As long as you keep adding weight, diet looks ok. If gain stalls, add 200-300 more calories each day.
06-17-2009, 03:21 PM
i'd try to add a little more fats, if you want to try something instead of using pam use olive oil, or coconut oil. Or even just eat/drink a tablespoon of coconut oil near bedtime.
06-17-2009, 03:49 PM
i usually cook with pam and then drizzle evoo over my veggies after because if i cook with it im not really getting as much as i might think i am you kno what I mean?
06-17-2009, 03:49 PM
06-18-2009, 09:09 AM
06-18-2009, 12:15 PM
06-18-2009, 12:18 PM
06-18-2009, 12:23 PM
06-18-2009, 12:26 PM
06-18-2009, 12:33 PM
06-18-2009, 12:39 PM
i think that getting though the mental wall of thinking that he has to workout for hours a day and barely eat just to stave off a tiny amount of fat gain is more important at this point than keeping up w/ running. learning that you can relax the routine a bit and eat more while still seeing beneficial results has more long term benefits than 4-6 wks of running imho.
06-18-2009, 12:39 PM
06-18-2009, 12:48 PM
06-18-2009, 12:55 PM
06-18-2009, 01:52 PM
I dont always go on a 45 minute run for cardio sometimes i switch it up and do 30 mins on this bike elliptical machine i think its called airdyne made by schwinn its my dads and i like doing that more than running because it incorporates your arms too. but im looking to get back into complete overall improvement strength and cv, and rodja youre very right my dr actually advised me to do cardio to build my heart back up because when i checked myself into the hospital my hr was 30. I think as long as i continue eating more to support the cardio and im still gaining weight then why not. I think it has alot of health benefits aswell because i feel so much better the whole day when i do some type of cardio after lifting even if its just really light
06-26-2009, 09:46 AM
hey guys just wondering if you would mine helping me out once again and take a look at my meal plan for today. btw I really appreciate all the feedback I get from everyone its very helpful, im getting much less stress revolved around gaining fat and now im just super determined to gain mass like crazy, but not go overboard, my plan is to increase 100 cals every week for a month while i start activate/stoked. I think i should see some good gains. but anyways heres my meal plan for today, feel free to rip it to shreds I need the criticism, im tired of being the little guy, even tho im pretty ripped i hope to make some big strength gains this upcoming month. Here it goes:
530-capped 200mg pslin/300mg yellow gold
545-10 grain oats 1.5 servings
one white peach
half scoop whey
go lean cereal (i mix it with my oatmeal for a little crunch plus extrra fat, carbs fiber and protein)
3 nutrabolics superfats
1 fish oil
2 Activate Xtreme
1 NSI 100mg REsveratrol
Total : 61 carbs, 4g fat, 25 protein
730 pre workout
5g creatine mono
750mg kre alkalyne
3g beta alanine
1.5g arginine ethyl esther
750 mg alcar
250 mg bPEA
crystal light pack for flavor or one of those green tea stick pack things usually the lemonade tastes good with the blue raspberry flavor from lg bcaa for some reason
i scoop bcaa+eaa lg also for flavor and benefits of aminos of cource
3 g citrulline malate
700 mg cissus (Just the bulk from nutra)
800 mg bulk carboxy
1.5 g GMS to get used to it (second day trying it out)
and then I take one1000 mg vit c chewie, 1 no flush niacin, and 1 Relora for cortisol support.
4 g wms to shuttle it all into cells without adding sugar
total 20 cal 4 carbs
8-10 drive to gym, warm up , lift 45, drink bcaas, 35 eliptical, cool down
10:15 Sample of green mag, 20 g wms, 400 mg pslin
total 80 cal 20 carbs
10:35 TP Gemma Isolate 1 scoop
skim milk powder
Total 33 protein 26 carbs 0 fat 240 Cal
11:25 2 glycobol
11:45 6 egg white omelet with spinach tomatoes jalapenoes, barley and sweet potato, also today is cheat day ( Just start this) so Ill probably have a cup of this fruit salad i made with mangoes, cantalopue, and watermelon, or maybe just a banana or extra protein bar for desert
Totals: 385 cals 54 carbs, 24 protein, 0 fat
3:00 Tuna Salad : Can of tuna in water, cabbage, tomato, jalapeno , UDos oil
Totals: 36 protein, 6g fat, minimal carbs dont bother to count them
1 Fish oil
6:30 6 oz chicken, evoo, broccoli, cauliflower, stir fry mix (bell peppers, onions), jalapenos,
Totals 36P, 7g fat, less than 20g carbs im guessing
2 Stoked Caps
1/2 cup cottage cheese blended with protein powder, unsweetened cocoa powder. and Natty PB with Celery
24 protein, 13g fat, less than 10 carbs
1.6 g carboxy, ZMA 2 hrs before cottage cheese shake, and 3g gaba, ocassionally x-dream but I havent been needing it as much since starting the carboxy
Total for day around 200 g carbs, 170 g protein and 30g fat, 1900 calories.
Also when I add an extra 100 cals next week where should i add it too? I kno my protein is fine or too high so either fats or carbs. I was going to start a 5x5 routine do you guys think that would be a good way to start building strength faster or do you have any other routines that would better suit me, it seems like im just begining only being aable to lift so low of weight but II kno it will improve with time. Once again thanks for everyones support and help it really makes a difference so go to sleep happy your helping a youngster overcome a bad mental struggle.
06-26-2009, 02:19 PM
just an update for anyone still reading this post and offering me advice today with my ppwo meal I added an orange and a special k bar for dessert. so today is the first day ive had 2000 calories in the last 9 months.
06-26-2009, 02:24 PM
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