[p00ndawg]

my ast was : 84
my ALT: 162

everything else was perfectly fine and normal.

supplements ive taken:
dcp
leviathan
lean xtreme
orange triad
powerFULL

just started:
glycobol

ive been on the anabolic diet since february, and ive been having a weekly refeed that lasts about 36 hours.

my daily macros are about

2500 calories, 200 - 300 protein, 100 - 200 fat, 0-50 carbs.

for anyone who doesnt know, the alt and ast are related to my liver.
EDIT: I rarely drink alcohol as well. 2x - 5x a year tops.

anyone help me pinpoint the problem?

[youngandfree]

what are the normal ranges, and what did your doc say about it?

[EasyEJL]

and did you work out that morning before having blood drawn? or take any of the supplements or vitamins even? supposed to have not had anything to eat or drink besides water for the prior 10-12 hours.

[p00ndawg]

what are the normal ranges, and what did your doc say about it?

i forget which is which, but for ast its like <30 and alt its < 50, or vice versa.
my doctor said to get off the supps, which I am. although it was obvious her advice was cautionary, she didnt really know what the supps did or what they were for.

and did you work out that morning before having blood drawn? or take any of the supplements or vitamins even? supposed to have not had anything to eat or drink besides water for the prior 10-12 hours.

no. did not work out, did not take anything, and did not eat prior to blood test.

[tripwired]

Don't quote me on this but I think i read somewhere that too much protein in the diet can cause this if it's not balanced out. Maybe you need more fat and less protein? I know that if you don't have enough glycogen or ketones your body will convert protein to glycogen. Maybe this is the case?

[p00ndawg]

Don't quote me on this but I think i read somewhere that too much protein in the diet can cause this if it's not balanced out. Maybe you need more fat and less protein? I know that if you don't have enough glycogen or ketones your body will convert protein to glycogen. Maybe this is the case?

ive since cleaned out my entire diet, but im not really sure what to do.
ive gone off the AD and on something more normal.

[EasyEJL]

try taking liver type supplements, I like SAM-e best as it has no negative sides

[p00ndawg]

try taking liver type supplements, I like SAM-e best as it has no negative sides

thanks, do you have any macros you could recommend for me?

40/40/20?

[EasyEJL]

really i dont think 200-300g of protein would cause that. 500-600 maybe, but even then there would be more kidney stress than liver. But 40/40/20 works well for most people, and unless you are on gear whether OTC or other much more than .8g/lb isn't particularly valuable. so you could do decently with slow gains while not bulking and not using anabolics at 150-160g a day of proteins.

[p00ndawg]

really i dont think 200-300g of protein would cause that. 500-600 maybe, but even then there would be more kidney stress than liver. But 40/40/20 works well for most people, and unless you are on gear whether OTC or other much more than .8g/lb isn't particularly valuable. so you could do decently with slow gains while not bulking and not using anabolics at 150-160g a day of proteins.

hmm, it probably was all the supps. But id rather be safe about it and drop all supps and go to normal diet and see what happens to knock out any sort of doubt.

im actually looking to cut.

[EasyEJL]

nothing you listed though was a significant liver stressor, my liver numbers came back better in a far far far worse scenario

But yeah, then stick to a 150-200g a day of protein diet, and work the rest from there to hit your desired total cals.

[p00ndawg]

nothing you listed though was a significant liver stressor, my liver numbers came back better in a far far far worse scenario :D

But yeah, then stick to a 150-200g a day of protein diet, and work the rest from there to hit your desired total cals.

yea thats whats bugging me lol.
it shouldnt be the diet, nor the supps, but its something lol.

i figure tho, knock out the supps and diet and if its still like that it'll make it easier to see whats wrong.

this was my first blood test, so I could just be like that or something, idk.

[EasyEJL]

yeah, hard to say, its changes in #s over time that is most valuable, but those are high for sure

[warbird01]

why did u even get a bloodtest?

[p00ndawg]

why did u even get a bloodtest?

just for my own benefit.
idk tho, something just told me i should get one. I didnt feel sick or ill or anything, I just felt like I needed one.

yeah, hard to say, its changes in #s over time that is most valuable, but those are high for sure

yea, abnormally high.

[StuartGould]

Hi

these two enzymes if elevated without a rise also in ALP are usually a marker of mild liver malfunction rather than a blockage in the bile duct drainage from eg a gallstone.

Myriad of poss causes. Usually drug reaction, often to simplr things like antibiotics. Also common with alcohol but not at the doses u use.

Can also happen in some people with any illness even the common cold.

Presumably is one of the supps or an interaction. Assume the bilirubin and alp was normal. Did u have a serum albumin done?

Normally would stop all supps and retest in a few weeks. I personally would do an ultrasound to make sure no stones and liver substance normal

hope that helps.

[p00ndawg]

Hi

these two enzymes if elevated without a rise also in ALP are usually a marker of mild liver malfunction rather than a blockage in the bile duct drainage from eg a gallstone.

Myriad of poss causes. Usually drug reaction, often to simplr things like antibiotics. Also common with alcohol but not at the doses u use.

Can also happen in some people with any illness even the common cold.

Presumably is one of the supps or an interaction. Assume the bilirubin and alp was normal. Did u have a serum albumin done?

Normally would stop all supps and retest in a few weeks. I personally would do an ultrasound to make sure no stones and liver substance normal

hope that helps.

thanks for the reply. Ive been off the supps since the original post and ill be having my bloodwork re done within the next week or two.

If its still high, which it hopefully isnt, I may have to get a biopsy or an ultrasound or something.

[Steveoph]

thanks for the reply. Ive been off the supps since the original post and ill be having my bloodwork re done within the next week or two.

If its still high, which it hopefully isnt, I may have to get a biopsy or an ultrasound or something.

Good call. This is exactly what happened to me before/during my 1-T Tren run. Elevated AST/ALT, normal ALP, Albumin, pretty much everything actually. 3 weeks after ceasing my non-cGMP supplements, I was back to normal. Just quit all supps, and decrease the stress/gym time.

[MrBigPR]

That antioxidants in Glycobol should clear your liver out pretty good. My brother was taking Gbol at the tail end of his Havoc cycle and it did wonders for him. He is 32 years old, never drinks.

[MrBigPR]

Good call. This is exactly what happened to me before/during my 1-T Tren run. Elevated AST/ALT, normal ALP, Albumin, pretty much everything actually. 3 weeks after ceasing my non-cGMP supplements, I was back to normal. Just quit all supps, and decrease the stress/gym time.

SteveO is right onthe elevated levels, but then again he is a supplement junkie .

How are you feeling overall?

[p00ndawg]

SteveO is right onthe elevated levels, but then again he is a supplement junkie .

How are you feeling overall?

I felt great before, but I do feel like I feel better now to be honest. but the difference is slight, had it not been for the blood test I wouldnt have known anything was wrong. I have decreased me gym time slightly from 6 days to 5 days, but ive kept the intesnsity up.
I think I can say I feel better, its odd tho because I didnt feel bad before i just feel better now.
very odd.

I did drop the glycobol and everything to be honest, dont wanna risk anything.

[MrBigPR]

NO problem bro, just be aware that when you started it again you will go through a period of "detoxification".

[p00ndawg]

NO problem bro, just be aware that when you started it again you will go through a period of "detoxification".

what do you mean? like the green stool stuff?

[MrBigPR]

Yea. Well it's more apparent in the first week.

[hardknock]

You may be surprised where your liver values are during the whole 12 months when you are taking supps. I found this out a few yrs ago. Almost anything that I take, my liver values will shoot up and out of wack, if it's a pill of some form. Hell, if i take vitamins, my values flucuate.

I do not even worry about it now though. It's been like that for 6 yrs or so, I just run my supps and if i ever have a problem i just stop the supps for a few weeks and things go back to normal. But, it ususally takes about 3months before they get out of wack though. I think it was just the amount of supps that you were taking. Jump off of them for a while, take the test again and you'll see that your values are back to normal.

[p00ndawg]

You may be surprised where your liver values are during the whole 12 months when you are taking supps. I found this out a few yrs ago. Almost anything that I take, my liver values will shoot up and out of wack, if it's a pill of some form. Hell, if i take vitamins, my values flucuate.

I do not even worry about it now though. It's been like that for 6 yrs or so, I just run my supps and if i ever have a problem i just stop the supps for a few weeks and things go back to normal. But, it ususally takes about 3months before they get out of wack though. I think it was just the amount of supps that you were taking. Jump off of them for a while, take the test again and you'll see that your values are back to normal.

thanks, that actually makes me feel much better.

Yea. Well it's more apparent in the first week.

yea i remember that lol.

[StuartGould]

thanks for the reply. Ive been off the supps since the original post and ill be having my bloodwork re done within the next week or two.

If its still high, which it hopefully isnt, I may have to get a biopsy or an ultrasound or something.

Yep. Chances are will be plumb normal again. If not then bloods for autoimmune liver disease and ultrasound before any biopsy. We leave that to last and avoid if poss