why not soy protien??? thoughts?

[mcssassin]

im a little ignorant to why soy is bad. why do so many people avoid it? honestly i avoid it to but just cause everyone says to stay away from it. but no one ever gave a clear reason why! i have close 20 lbs of soy protein given to me by a friend who gets it for free and im not sure if i should use it ? it just sits there. can anyone fill me in?

 

[mcssassin]

anyone?

 

[ecosocialist]

There is no reason not to. Old studies slanted towards increases of estrogen, but time and time again they have been proven false. Probolic-SR by MHP is a fantastic soy based protein.

Sometimes mixes like ****, but that may have just been mine =].

 

[mcssassin]

the stuff i have does mixes crappy to but on that note it should be good to mix with whey to get fast and not so fast protein into system (and curb bad taste of soy protien).

 

[CopyCat]

The fear of soy protein is blown way out of proportion.

 

[fightbackhxc]

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90073&highlight=soy+protein

 

[mcssassin]

according to fightbacks link soy inhibits protien sythesis which whould work against the whole point of takeing protein. but how much do you have to consume before it has these effects? would 1 protein shake a day do this???

 

[fightbackhxc]

well like Layne Norton said, if your intaking soy protein, make sure you get other varieties of protein with it as well as bcaa's to offset that.

 

[Tone]

Im pretty sure protein is protein, regardless of where you get it.. there is always a lot of hype by people saying this is good, this is bad... that starts from company reps...

"WHOEVER CONTROLS THE MEDIA CONTROLS THE MINDS"

Its PROTEIN isn't it? then ****in eat it

 

[Delita420]

LOL! Soy doesn't effect estrogen levels? Then tribulus, longjack, nettle, and hornygoatweed don't do anything either!

We all know this is wrong.

Soy contains many isoflavones which act like estrogen in the body. It is true that in small doses it could be beneficial. Use over a large period of time on the other hand, it may not be so beneficial. Cancer patients supplementing with soy isoflavones developed gynecomastia whereas the control (placebo) group did not.

 

[Steveoph]

All protein is not created equal, as can be clearly seen since we have complete vs. incomplete protein sources.

With so many protein sources out there and the uncertainty about the full spectrum of effects caused by the components in soy protein, I figure I'd just stay away from it and not worry.

 

[Tone]

so you are telling me if drink 2 soy protein shakes a day I will grow tits??? what about my wife, will she grow bigger titties?? not like she needs them.

 

[fightbackhxc]

All protein is not created equal, as can be clearly seen since we have complete vs. incomplete protein sources.

With so many protein sources out there and the uncertainty about the full spectrum of effects caused by the components in soy protein, I figure I'd just stay away from it and not worry.

exactly my thoughts! I trust my source that I posted. I was currently taking soy in alot and now I dont take any stand alone soy protein alone. I stopped buying protein bars all together too because they mainly use soy protein.

 

[fightbackhxc]

not saying that at all........it could elevate estrogen levels in men..did you read link i posted? It interferes with protein synthesis.

 

[Delita420]

so you are telling me if drink 2 soy protein shakes a day I will grow tits??? what about my wife, will she grow bigger titties?? not like she needs them.

I have never experimented with trying to grow tits, so I cannot provide any advice on how to do it. I do know that a small amount of estrogen can upset the males hormonal balance a lot easier than a womans. Just like a small amount of testosterone will effect a woman more than a male.

 

[fightbackhxc]

I have never experimented with trying to grow tits, so I cannot provide any advice on how to do it. I do know that a small amount of estrogen can upset the males hormonal balance a lot easier than a womans. Just like a small amount of testosterone will effect a woman more than a male.

definitely! it has even been show to decrease the fertitlity among men.

 

[Delita420]

Whey, Casein, and Egg proteins should be your first choice in protein supplements.

 

[Tone]

I understand what you are saying, I guess I should probably stay away from soy too. I drink like 1-2 shakes a day because I am lactose intolerant. I haven't noticed any changes in myself.... so basically what I am getting it is how can i know for sure that it is bad for me?????

 

[fightbackhxc]

well I would go with Pea(gemma) protein man. i mean its got a much better profile than whey and is all around a pretty good product. How much more soy you got left??

 

[Tone]

I am sharing it with my gf, she drinks a few shakes a day as well.... so it will be gone for sure, also there is whey protein isolates that have no lactose I was looking into getting, whats up with pea protein??? I will have to do some research on that, I don't think i've ever heard of it

 

[Delita420]

I am sharing it with my gf, she drinks a few shakes a day as well.... so it will be gone for sure, also there is whey protein isolates that have no lactose I was looking into getting, whats up with pea protein??? I will have to do some research on that, I don't think i've ever heard of it

You could look into Optimum Nutritions 100% Natural Whey Protein.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Whey Isolate i believe is kinda pricey. If your interested in the pea protein check out lg sciences lipotropic protein.

http://store.anabolicminds.com/product/legal-gear/lipotropic-protein-5-lb.html

they are working on perfecting the taste so I believe there new versions will be out soon.

 

[Delita420]

I guess there is a new Black Soy Bean that can be used to make a soy protein which does not contain any isoflavones. It won't be on the market for a while though, if ever. I read about it in one of the new magazines.

 

[mcssassin]

thanks everyone for the input. i think ill just use what i have in small amounts mixed with other protein. it does sound like there are alot of mixed opinions on it. its hard not to take it when u get it for free tho

 

[ecosocialist]

Soy can slightly decrease fertility in males in high doses. Extremely high doses. When one looks at a country such as asia and studies on the fertility rating of soy consumption over long time, one would see that fertility rates do not drop. So you can forget about that.

Soy does not decrease testosterone. Yes, it does contain isoflavones which exhibit estrogen like effects, but once again, only in high amounts, and the way the soy is processed and filtered affects this.

The decrease in protein synthesis is negligible too. To consider it a disadvantage is fair, by 15%, but it also has its place as a slower digesting protein, and higher in certain amino acids.

 

[Delita420]

thanks everyone for the input. i think ill just use what i have in small amounts mixed with other protein. it does sound like there are alot of mixed opinions on it. its hard not to take it when u get it for free tho

I buy a sh1tload of eggs from the grocery store and eat 6 at a time when I'm out of protein... Only takes a second to fry them up!

 

[fightbackhxc]

Soy can slightly decrease fertility in males in high doses. Extremely high doses. When one looks at a country such as asia and studies on the fertility rating of soy consumption over long time, one would see that fertility rates do not drop. So you can forget about that.

Soy does not decrease testosterone. Yes, it does contain isoflavones which exhibit estrogen like effects, but once again, only in high amounts, and the way the soy is processed and filtered affects this.

The decrease in protein synthesis is negligible too. To consider it a disadvantage is fair, by 15%, but it also has its place as a slower digesting protein, and higher in certain amino acids.

It is a medium digesting protein and is an incomplete protein source. but there is good information here. thanks eco.

 

[RoadBlocK]

Something that irks me is how soy has creeped into everything people eat. I see it in every food label I read from granola bars to snickers bars. Maybe its always been there, but I dont remember it being on/in so many foods 25 years ago.

 

[BodyWizard]

From the AM archives:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17698

 

[lonewolf0420]

I usually mix in soy pre, and post workout.

I've read in a tidbit that soy enhances recovery a little better than whey. So lately I've been mixing into my whey, casein shake.

 

[BodyWizard]

In all this talk about protein, let's not forget BEEF - which is available at *real* good prices for the adventurous do-it-yourself-er (that's you guys, right?):

Example: for $70, you can get a slab of beef ready to be carved into steaks; a little freezer wrap, a little masking tape, a grease pencil, & you're good to go (okay, you need a big sharp knife, too). For my last $70, I got 15 steaks, each on was 3/4# ~or more~. Each of these steaks cost me LESS THAN A HAPPY MEAL...but in a restaurant, each would have cost me $20 - or more.

Yes, that's $300+ restaurant-dollars worth of high-grade, flavorful BEEF for less than FIVE BUCKS A SERVING.

Have fun w/ your soy....

 

[purelife1]

i was using unsweetened soy milk with my protein shakes for a few weeks..i noticed i looked very bloated...i had been using with goat milk with never any bloat..after reading some of my wifes new book Master Your metabalism i read all the problems with soy and dropped it......after less then 1 week im down almost 4 lbs..its all water as i was pissing like race horse for days...needless to say no more soy of anything for me

 

[ecosocialist]

So basically the research is all over the place. In fact, one study put the testosterone and DHT levels of rats fed a high phytoestrogen diet at higher than a non-phytoestrogen diet.
(PubMed) How that makes sense, I'm not sure.

Your best bet is to consume a decent amount of soy. Moderation in all things as usual. Soy as a protein is not the only protein enemy. Meat contains steroids, has been proven to aggravate estrogen levels and can further gynocomastia. Casien can cause gastrointestinal distress. You could have an allergic reaction to whey.

In all reality, whey protein is vastly superior. But it is not the only suggested option. Soy can be great for you, for every negative study, a positive one negates it, as is the case with many medical studies. In time, further studies and hopefully human studies will show us just how soy protein works, its short and long term effects, and how to properly use it.

So just figure out what works for your body. Probolic-SR and Up Your Mass from MHP are soy based proteins and I have found them to be superior to many of the protein drinks I have tried. I also am a vegetarian and consume soy based products. Everybody's body is different which is why no one supplement will work exactly the same for everybody. Keep doing research, keep an open mind, and never settle for any one product, researcher, or study.

 

[fightbackhxc]

i would start consuming gemma. Until negatives are found on that.

 

[Tone]

In all this talk about protein, let's not forget BEEF - which is available at *real* good prices for the adventurous do-it-yourself-er (that's you guys, right?):

Example: for $70, you can get a slab of beef ready to be carved into steaks; a little freezer wrap, a little masking tape, a grease pencil, & you're good to go (okay, you need a big sharp knife, too). For my last $70, I got 15 steaks, each on was 3/4# ~or more~. Each of these steaks cost me LESS THAN A HAPPY MEAL...but in a restaurant, each would have cost me $20 - or more.

Yes, that's $300+ restaurant-dollars worth of high-grade, flavorful BEEF for less than FIVE BUCKS A SERVING.

Have fun w/ your soy....

I probably eat more BEEF than you do, and mine is nice and fresh since I live in IOWA, yeah thats right IOWA where real BEEF is made.

 

[ecosocialist]

Nice, I live in Iowa too =]. Of course I'm also the only vegetarian in Iowa.

 

[timmmah]

SOY PROTEIN IS FOR CHICKS!!!!!!
:welcome2:

 

[timmmah]

GIMME SOME REP POINTS!! some DOOSHERSON gave me mucho negs for callin out his boyfreind.
please help,
timmy

 

[Jordinator]

I agree you should probably limit soy protein just in case, but I also don't like to drink milk. So my PWO shake consists of 1/2 cup plain soymilk, 1 scoop whey, 2 tbsp peanut butter, 1 tbsp flaxseed oil, 1 banana, and about 6-8 icecubes. Good mix of protein and it tastes really good!

 

[fightbackhxc]

I agree you should probably limit soy protein just in case, but I also don't like to drink milk. So my PWO shake consists of 1/2 cup plain soymilk, 1 scoop whey, 2 tbsp peanut butter, 1 tbsp flaxseed oil, 1 banana, and about 6-8 icecubes. Good mix of protein and it tastes really good!

that shouldnt be bad then since your offsetting the soy with some whey, and protein. but that is your post workoutshake??

 

[BodyWizard]

I probably eat more BEEF than you do, and mine is nice and fresh since I live in IOWA, yeah thats right IOWA where real BEEF is made.

Props to you then, bro...I thought Iowa was where cattle *feed* is made (to say nothing of skeevy brunettes who hang out at the localRamada Inn, trolling for "businessmen"...(or maybe that's just in Ames).)

Feel free to eat all the real beef you like - for less than $100/mo, I can eat inch-thick USDA *prime* STEAK every night of the week (and save the chicken and salad for the weekend...).

Playing around, but seriously, if I lived in Beef Country, I'd probably eat eat even MORE!

 

[Delita420]

Tube steak!!!

 

[Tone]

Props to you then, bro...I thought Iowa was where cattle *feed* is made (to say nothing of skeevy brunettes who hang out at the localRamada Inn, trolling for "businessmen"...(or maybe that's just in Ames).)

Feel free to eat all the real beef you like - for less than $100/mo, I can eat inch-thick USDA *prime* STEAK every night of the week (and save the chicken and salad for the weekend...).

Playing around, but seriously, if I lived in Beef Country, I'd probably eat eat even MORE!

Hahah, probably I refuse to go to Ames anyway, I hate that town -- I do on the other hand love Iowa City.... Just be careful with beef though, we might get colon cancer from eating so damn much of it. Do you just buy like half a cow or something to get your meat?? Thats what I do

 

[fightbackhxc]

Hahah, probably I refuse to go to Ames anyway, I hate that town -- I do on the other hand love Iowa City.... Just be careful with beef though, we might get colon cancer from eating so damn much of it. Do you just buy like half a cow or something to get your meat?? Thats what I do

Iowa City/Choralville is the bomb diggity.

 

[Tone]

Nice, I live in Iowa too =]. Of course I'm also the only vegetarian in Iowa.

where at in Iowa?

 

[Tone]

Iowa City/Choralville is the bomb diggity.

Hell yeah bro- I wish I still lived there!!!!!!!!

 

[Ev52]

soy is the best protein source for endurance events. It has less potential for increasing ammonia then whey protein.

 

[fightbackhxc]

I live in illinois so i been through there a few times.

 

[ecosocialist]

West of West Des Moines. Not too exciting out here though lol.

 

[suncloud]

LOL! Soy doesn't effect estrogen levels? Then tribulus, longjack, nettle, and hornygoatweed don't do anything either!

We all know this is wrong.

Soy contains many isoflavones which act like estrogen in the body. It is true that in small doses it could be beneficial. Use over a large period of time on the other hand, it may not be so beneficial. Cancer patients supplementing with soy isoflavones developed gynecomastia whereas the control (placebo) group did not.

does anyone have the balls to take soy protein during PCT?