First Blood Profile done...Weird results.

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    First Blood Profile done...Weird results.


    So three days ago I had my first blood work done, ever. Today they were faxed to me from the doctor, with the recommendation I eat more protein and healthy foods such as fish and meats.... That's kind of odd as I have AT LEAST 160grams a day no matter what, usually a lot more. I eat ONLY healthy foods, no butter loaded or fat exploding dishes, and almost no simple sugars other than fruits(eating around 2200 cals a day right now).
    Doctor also said that I may be taking too much tylenol and maybe drinking way too much. Weird, haven't had a sip of alcohol in 2 months, and no tylenol in I can't remember how long.

    I'm turning 20 in 3 days, I'm 6' 1", and now around 177lbs.

    Here's what is out of range:

    Absolute LYMPHOCYTES: 1197, Normal is 1200-5200cells/uL
    BILIRUBIN: 1.4, Normal is 0.2-1.1 mg/dL (doctor said this means liver toxicity)
    White Blood Cell Count: 3.2, Normal is 4.5-13 thousand/uL
    Platelet Count: 110, Normal is 140-400 thousand/uL
    Absolute NEUTROPHILS: 1610, Normal is 1800-8000 cells/uL

    TRIGLYCERIDES: 34, Normal is 38-152 mg/dL
    HDL CHOLESTEROL: 73, Normal is 31-65 mg/dL
    ^^^My total cholesterol is 166, and LDL is 86(those two are normal)

    ::::

    Now, luckily I convinced the doctor to take my free testosterone as well, as she was reluctant saying that normally they don't do that unless there is a reason. I told her I just really wanted to know, and she was able to get it done.(without other hormones like estrogen though)

    Although this didn't show as out of range, so I don't think she took notice, my levels were 271 ng/dL, while the reference range for adult males was 241-827 ng/dL. Now this kind of gets me thinking, because I'm 19 years old, and I haven't had a high libido since I was 16.(for about 8 months with this crazy girlfriend, all I wanted to do was ram her everyday). After that though, I hadn't had steady sex in a while, and maybe just some on and off flings. Now I could care less about sex, and literally sometimes don't masterbate because I'm too lazy. Maybe once every two weeks...

    For a month and a half my daily supplements have looked like this:

    1 MegaMen's sport Multivitamin
    1 Green Tea Capsule(365mg)
    2 Fish Oil Capsules
    2-3 grams pure L-arginine (1g morning, 1g at night, 1g pre-workout)
    5 grams pure Creatine Mono (Either morning or Post workout)
    1 Slim Xtreme capsule in the morning
    1 serving of ZMA before bed every night
    (last week also have been using some leftover DCP)

    Other than that I also take whey isolate post workout, and protein blends before bed or as meal replacements.

    My diet is solid. Healthy foods, lean meats, complex carbs, barely any HFCS, fruits, a lot of veggies, and healthy fats.


    ::::

    Does anyone have any insight into why I'm off in my blood work? And maybe the low testosterone is keeping me from the gains I should be making. I fear also having a higher estrogen level, but I can't be sure as I don't know.

    I want to do something about this, what type of doctor should I see? And has anyone else had similar problems?

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    i had blood work done i eat healthy as well. I'm pretty sure if you excercise 12-24 hours before a blood test it can mess with the results.
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    Your testosterone is not low. Being at the lower end of the reference range is still within the reference range. I may be able to give you a little more insight into your results if you post the rest of them; not just what was out of range.
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  4. UKStrength
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    High Bilirubin could mean a blockage of bile duct or in rare cases Gilbert's Syndrome (hereditary condition, patients have naturally elevated bilirubin).

    Mine was elevated 3 months after a long injectible cycle with an oral DS on the end. After an abdominal ultrasound there was no damage at all, so it could have just been transient.

    All I know is after 6 weeks of NAC, Milk thistle, ALA and fish oil supplementation my levels are normal again.

    Have you run an PH/DS?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKBB44 View Post
    i had blood work done i eat healthy as well. I'm pretty sure if you excercise 12-24 hours before a blood test it can mess with the results.
    Well the test was on Monday morning and Sundays are my rest days..

    Your testosterone is not low. Being at the lower end of the reference range is still within the reference range. I may be able to give you a little more insight into your results if you post the rest of them; not just what was out of range.
    Alright do you want everything? Because naturally there is a LOT. And you don't think my testosterone is low, especially for my age? I'm pretty sure my dad has much higher test than me and he's 62.

    High Bilirubin could mean a blockage of bile duct or in rare cases Gilbert's Syndrome (hereditary condition, patients have naturally elevated bilirubin).

    Mine was elevated 3 months after a long injectible cycle with an oral DS on the end. After an abdominal ultrasound there was no damage at all, so it could have just been transient.

    All I know is after 6 weeks of NAC, Milk thistle, ALA and fish oil supplementation my levels are normal again.

    Have you run an PH/DS?
    I spoke to my dad yesterday about it, and he said his Bilirubin has been high his entire life, and that his doctors told him not to worry about it. So maybe its a good possibility its hereditary. I did buy milk thistle though and started using it yesterday.
    And how high was yours elevated? What levels can cause liver damage?

    And nope never run a PH/DS. I did however use a bottle of Alpha Drive XL Nutraplanet sent me with one of my orders a few months ago. I don't think that would cause these problems though..?
  6. UKStrength
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post
    I spoke to my dad yesterday about it, and he said his Bilirubin has been high his entire life, and that his doctors told him not to worry about it. So maybe its a good possibility its hereditary. I did buy milk thistle though and started using it yesterday.
    Sounds like Gilbert's Syndrome to me, tell your doc about your dad and don't worry about bilirubin then for subsequent blood panel results.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople
    And how high was yours elevated? What levels can cause liver damage?
    It's not just the levels but also the specific enzymes they test for. My AST was through the roof (65, normal range is 5-40 U/L) which shows general liver 'activity and stress' but is also raised with skeletal muscle damage (so is often high in active people).

    ALT was fine (35, normal range 7-50), this enzyme more closely indicates liver cell integrity and is raised during acute liver damage.

    ALP wasn't raised so there was no biliary obstruction.

    GGT was also not raised (very sensitive marker of liver damage).

    Blirubin was raised (15, normal range was 1-10 mg/L) which can indicate a blockage, cirrhosis, hepatitis or in your case most likely Gilbert's Syndrome, but since ALP was not increased it had to be hepatic damage/stress.

    So I was pretty confused but I told my doctor about my steroid cycle and he suggested to stay off anything for a while until my liver recovered (which it has). It taught me a good lesson to respect your liver and don't listen to any idiot who tells you otherwise about 'toxicity'.

    Alpha Drive XL is unlikely to have done anything, but it does have to be broken down by the liver so it can cause it some stress.

    I don't think you should worry yourself too much mate. Eat healthily, train hard and stay away from alcohol if you're very concerned and re-test in 6 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post
    Alright do you want everything?
    Yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    Sounds like Gilbert's Syndrome to me, tell your doc about your dad and don't worry about bilirubin then for subsequent blood panel results.
    It's way premature to suggest GS with a slightly elevated bilirubin and no physical symptoms. Tons of other things can cause this. He would need a few other things first, including a liver panel and more than one bili result with total, direct and indirect.


    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    It's not just the levels but also the specific enzymes they test for. My AST was through the roof (65, normal range is 5-40 U/L) which shows general liver 'activity and stress' but is also raised with skeletal muscle damage (so is often high in active people).

    ALT was fine (35, normal range 7-50), this enzyme more closely indicates liver cell integrity and is raised during acute liver damage.

    ALP wasn't raised so there was no biliary obstruction.

    GGT was also not raised (very sensitive marker of liver damage).

    Blirubin was raised (15, normal range was 1-10 mg/L) which can indicate a blockage, cirrhosis, hepatitis or in your case most likely Gilbert's Syndrome, but since ALP was not increased it had to be hepatic damage/stress.
    Your elevated AST in the presence of a normal ALT actually points away from the liver as a source of your problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinn View Post
    Yes.

    Alright, test name on the left, results in the middle, and reference ranges to the right. Anything in bold indicates 'out-of-range' results.

    --Lipid Panel--

    triglycerides: 34 LOW: 38-152mg/dL
    total cholesterol: 166: 125-170mg/dL
    HDL cholesterol: 73 HIGH: 31-65mg/dL
    LDL cholesterol: 86: <110mg/dL

    chol/hdlc ratio: 2.3: <5.0


    --Hepatitis Panel--
    All tests say NON-REACTIVE
    Hepatitis C antibody- Signal to cut off: 0.04: <1.00


    --Comprehensive Metabolic Panel w/EGFR--

    Glucose: 78: 65-99mg/dL
    Urea Nitrogen: 19: 7-20mg/dL
    Creatinine: 1.06: 0.67-1.26mg/dL
    Sodium: 141: 135-146mmol/L
    Potassium: 4.1: 3.8-5.1mmol/L
    Chloride: 104: 98-110mmol/L
    Carbon Dioxide: 31: 21-33mmol/L
    Calcium: 9.6: 8.9-10.4mg/dL
    Total Protein: 7.9: 6.3-8.2g/dL
    Albumin: 4.8: 3.6-5.1g/dL
    Globulin: 3.1: 2.1-3.5g/dL

    Albumin/Globulin Ration: 1.5: 1.0-2.1
    Total Bilirubin: 1.4 HIGH: 0.2-1.1mg/dL
    Alkaline Phosphatase: 93: 48-230U/L

    AST: 27: 12-32U/L
    ALT: 21: 8-46U/L

    --Urinalysis, Complete w/ Reflex to Culture--
    Color: Yellow
    Appearance: Clear
    Specific Gravity: 1.005: 1.001-1.035
    PH: 7.0: 5.0-8.0

    Everything else in the Urinalysis part says either NEGATIVE or NONE SEEN

    --CBC(includes diff/plt)--

    White Blood Cell Count: 3.2 LOW: 4.5-13.0 Thousand/uL
    Red Blood Cell Count: 4.25: 4.10-5.70 Million/uL
    Hemoglobin: 13.4: 12.0-16.9g/dL
    Hematocrit: 37.5: 36-49%
    MCV: 88.1: 78-98fL
    MCH: 31.6: 25.0-35.0pg
    MCHC: 35.9: 31-36g/dL
    RDW: 13.8: 11.0-15.0%
    Platelet Count: 110 LOW: 140-400 Thousand/uL
    Absolute Neutrophils: 1610 LOW: 1800-8000 cells/uL
    Absolute Lymphocytes: 1197 LOW: 1200-5200 cells/uL
    Absolute Monocytes: 262: 200-900cells/uL
    Absolute Eosinophils: 112: 15-500cells/uL
    Absolute Basophils: 19: 0-200cells/uL
    ::The next few reference ranges just say "%"::
    Neutrophils: 50.3
    Lymphocytes: 37.4
    Monocytes: 8.2
    Eosinophils: 3.5
    Basophils: 0.6

    --HIV AB, HIV 1/2, EIA with reflexes--
    Non Reactive

    --Reflexive Urine Culture--
    No Culture Indicated

    Total Testosterone: 271ng/dL: Adult Male Ref Range: 241-827ng/dL

    TSH, 3rd Generation: 2.73: 0.50-4.30mIU/L
    Vitamin B12: 858: 200-1100pg/mL
    Hemoglobin A1c: 5.4: % of total Hgb, NON-DIABETIC: <6.0%
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    Your results look fine dude. The high/low results aren't far outside of their ranges and the whole picture doesn't present any obvious concerns. Follow up with repeat blood work in a few weeks(you can skip the STD testing) if you want to establish a better baseline for yourself.

    Your doc wasn't totally correct if he stated elevated bilirubin means liver toxicity. While it can point to that, it can mean several other things too. Your liver panel does not point to that and most likely it's nothing to worry about as it's not very high and isn't tying into anything else there.

    As far as your testos...you're within range. Your normal level may not be the normal level of the next guy or the next but that's not really relevant. You can consult an endocrinologist if you are concerned(but it may not be worth the money if you didn't have any issues before you saw the number).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinn View Post
    As far as your testos...you're within range. Your normal level may not be the normal level of the next guy or the next but that's not really relevant. You can consult an endocrinologist if you are concerned(but it may not be worth the money if you didn't have any issues before you saw the number).
    I greatly appreciate the help man you seem to really know your stuff.

    On the testosterone, I asked because I did really want to know. For a long time I just haven't felt like I should. It's hard to explain, but things that used to get me hyped now just kind of leave me wanting to do other things. For example, say some friends hit me up to go to some party and mac, I literally have to go through every reason why it will be fun just to go, and I won't even feel like showing up. When I get there I'll enjoy it, but I never want to go. When it comes to girls, yeah I definitely am attracted and want sex, but not nearly like I used to and it doesn't bother me that I don't have sex often. No doubt my libido isn't normal.

    My emotions are mixed, sometimes I'm complacent and then some of the stupidest little things can bother me so much. I literally feel like a girl when I bitch about **** that I know doesn't matter.

    ANYWAY, I'm going to have a full physical next week, and I'll see how we go with the endocrinologist. I appreciate the help bro!
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    All good points by Cinn. Low TGs and high HDL are probably better rather than worse. The only thing I'm curious about is the RBC and Platelet. Get FSH/LH and E2 done next time to help learn more about your hormonal flux.
  13. Mars1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post


    After that though, I hadn't had steady sex in a while, and maybe just some on and off flings. Now I could care less about sex, and literally sometimes don't masterbate because I'm too lazy. Maybe once every two weeks...
    I feel pretty similar but not as bad,

    used to have a HUGE libido from 12-16

    Now not so much, maybe 2-3 a week.

    After you have sex do you feel kind weak? or something, like during it was awesome and afterward you kind of feel worse than when you had sex.

    Im also similar age to you.

    Ive only done like 1 DS.

    But I read an article that said that long term weightlifting can actually lower your testoster. Counter that in, with were not in puberty anymore
  14. Mars1107
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    The article,

    By Dharkam

    i posted the whole thing and did not link, because of board rules.

    "Hypogonadism and natural bodybuilding

    If bodybuilding is such a good testosterone booster, why do so many seasoned lifters suffer from a very low testosterone level? And I am not talking about former steroid users only. Are they all overtrained? The answer is no. The fact is, long term bodybuilding may not be that good for your endogenous testosterone production.

    If you look at the scientific research measuring testosterone output after an intense workout, you will find that some studies show an increase. Others fail to demonstrate any effect on testosterone output. Also, some studies report a reduction in testosterone. So, the testosterone response to a workout is very hard to predict. But I can clearly see a trend: the more advanced you are, the less likely your are to respond positively.

    Lactate as a powerful endocrine stimulator

    There is a very interesting study that sums up those various trends. Sprinters ran 400 meters as fast as possible. The run lasted around 45 to 50 seconds. This is very interesting because this is how long a normal bodybuilding set lasts. Among these sprinters, some were of Olympic caliber with around 8 years of training. Others were not so advanced with only 4 years of practice under their belt. The elite sprinters produced the most effort in the least amount of time (45 s). Their blood lactic acid concentration increased 1100%. The less advanced sprinters cover the 400 m in 48 s. As their efforts were less intense, their blood lactic acid level increased only 800%. Because of those strong lactic acid elevations, one would expect testosterone level to increase. During an intense effort, the lactate from the lactic acid is supposed to be a very powerful endocrine stimulator.

    As a result of this intense run, the luteneizing hormone (LH) level (the hormone triggering the testosterone release):

    * almost doubled (+ 100%) in ALL the elite sprinters;
    * in the less advanced runners, LH concentration raised only 25%. It increased in most runners of this group but decreased in a minority of them.

    Normally, a LH elevation is associated with an increase in testosterone production. This is what we see in the less advanced runners with a 27% increase in total testosterone and a 60% increase in free testosterone. No matter how their LH responded, ALL of them experienced an elevation in blood testosterone.

    45 seconds are enough to reduce your testosterone concentration!

    The testosterone response in the elite athletes is far more interesting. Despite the very robust LH elevation, ALL of them experienced a decrease in testosterone output. Total and free testosterone decreased 11% and 26%, respectively. So much for the 45 min limit beyond which testosterone might start to decrease. We see in this study that in advanced athletes, an all out effort of 45 seconds is enough to decrease testosterone. This acute effort produced a long lasting negative effect. It took the sprinters 24 h to have their testosterone level back to normal.

    Would steroid usage explain this strange phenomenon? I do not think so as their baseline testosterone, LH and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) [another testosterone stimulating hormone] levels were normal before the 400 meter run.

    Testicular Exhaustion - Explanation for this Unexpected Response?

    The answer to the paradox of having a strong LH elevation and negative testosterone response is simple. The testes of these advanced athletes are "exhausted". Their constant stimulation ends up having a very negative impact on their capacity to manufacture androgens.

    In this study, this exhaustion occurred after only 8 years of training. Basal testosterone is not affected, yet. Subjects were still pretty young (25 year old), too. With more training years and as you get older, basal testosterone production is likely to suffer, too. I think this exhaustion explains why so many advanced (natural) bodybuilders end up having low levels of androgens or end up producing no testosterone at all.

    An accelerated form of aging?

    Note that the free (bio-available) testosterone is the most affected in both groups. It increased the most in the least experienced athletes compared to total testosterone. It decreased the most in the elite group. In that, it resembles to an accelerated form of aging. As we age, the production of the proteins that bind testosterone increases 1% every year. If our testosterone output decline yearly, our free portion is the most negatively affected.

    What are the consequences bodybuilding training and testicular exhaustion?

    The ‘testicular exhaustion’ is a factor one should take into account when planning his bodybuilding career. When you thing about it, the future does not look very bright. Up to the age of 25, I could tell that a workout, especially a leg workout, was increasing my testosterone level. More than 10 years later, such a feelable kick is very, very rare.

    1. Unless you want to become a pro bodybuilders, I would not recommend starting using steroids before reaching this exhaustion stage.
    2. Low calorie diets are obviously not a good thing for your testosterone output. This is why I am against the bulking up phase, especially for natural bodybuilders. Overfeeding is not a very strong stimulator for your testosterone production. On the other hand, underfeeding is a potent inhibitor of testosterone output. After several years of bulking up, a severe diet might precipitate this testes exhaustion.

    The new logic of the aging bodybuilder

    Statistical studies suggest that muscles can still grow despite a low testosterone output. In fact, muscles growth is more closely related to testosterone receptor density than testosterone level. This indirect finding suggests that testosterone receptors can self activate in the absence of testosterone if muscular contractions are intense enough. But in extreme case of exhaustion, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) might be the only solution."
  15. Mars1107
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    most people say 18-21 is the PEAK.

    I definately peaked my testosterone when i hit puberty 12-16.

    I havent taken my test, bc of the same reason you said, doctors dont like to do it, but next time ill pressure him.

    I always wanted to know. But for shure my test has been higher before.

    Off bat i think id be higher than yours though,maybe 350-450, but im just guessing, im hoping thats where im at.

    Id like to be at 1000,thatd probally be nice.
  16. UKStrength
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    Great article mate, so perhaps trainees should be focusing more on the periodisation of their training/type of exercises (more low rep, low lactate accumulation exercises) to prevent this decline in testosterone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    most people say 18-21 is the PEAK.

    I definately peaked my testosterone when i hit puberty 12-16.

    I havent taken my test, bc of the same reason you said, doctors dont like to do it, but next time ill pressure him.

    I always wanted to know. But for shure my test has been higher before.

    Off bat i think id be higher than yours though,maybe 350-450, but im just guessing, im hoping thats where im at.

    Id like to be at 1000,thatd probally be nice.
    Haha yeah, me too. And that was some pretty interesting stuff... And I feel the same about the low libido situation. Although, I definitely went through puberty, I'm tall and so on, but it's not all done, because I still don't have enough facial hair.:[

    But I'm wondering now about the low calorie diet part of the article, I've been cutting calories for exactly two months now.. coming straight off of a high calorie bulk. Maybe that could explain a lot..? I was probably eating around 3500-4000 calories a day, and now I'm around 2000-2200. Either way I'm going to get some things checked out.

    I'll update this for sure.
  18. UKStrength
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post
    But I'm wondering now about the low calorie diet part of the article, I've been cutting calories for exactly two months now.. coming straight off of a high calorie bulk. Maybe that could explain a lot..? I was probably eating around 3500-4000 calories a day, and now I'm around 2000-2200. Either way I'm going to get some things checked out.

    I'll update this for sure.
    This does play a massive role mate. I'm in the same situation (been cutting for months now). I slowly came down from 3500-4000kcal/day to currently 2400-2600kcal/day.

    I'm very lean now, but I've felt my libido and aggressiveness decline as I droppped the cals, I've tried to compensate by doing extra cardio instead of dropping calories and it's made a bit of a difference but not much.

    I think the key to it is very much to stay reasonably lean year-round (around 8-9% bf) and not 'bulk' and 'cut' constantly, adding mass slowly and 'trimming' the fat if it gets a little too high.
  19. Mars1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    Great article mate, so perhaps trainees should be focusing more on the periodisation of their training/type of exercises (more low rep, low lactate accumulation exercises) to prevent this decline in testosterone?
    Thanks

    perhaps,

    it also say at the end long trained athletes may have lower test levels, but there test receptors are upregulated. So you can still gain muscle.

    As for training type, that sounds good, but i dont know.

    I think beta alanine reduces lactate.

    Thats a very good supp.
  20. Mars1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post
    Haha yeah, me too. And that was some pretty interesting stuff... And I feel the same about the low libido situation. Although, I definitely went through puberty, I'm tall and so on, but it's not all done, because I still don't have enough facial hair.:[

    But I'm wondering now about the low calorie diet part of the article, I've been cutting calories for exactly two months now.. coming straight off of a high calorie bulk. Maybe that could explain a lot..? I was probably eating around 3500-4000 calories a day, and now I'm around 2000-2200. Either way I'm going to get some things checked out.

    I'll update this for sure.
    i think facial hair is genetic, theres lots of guy who never get facial hair ever. Unless maybe if you took some DHT,haha.

    I starting growing facial hair at 12,almost full beard by 16.

    I think its very genetic.

    Test and hair dont go hand in hand.
  21. Mars1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    This does play a massive role mate. I'm in the same situation (been cutting for months now). I slowly came down from 3500-4000kcal/day to currently 2400-2600kcal/day.

    I'm very lean now, but I've felt my libido and aggressiveness decline as I droppped the cals, I've tried to compensate by doing extra cardio instead of dropping calories and it's made a bit of a difference but not much.

    I think the key to it is very much to stay reasonably lean year-round (around 8-9% bf) and not 'bulk' and 'cut' constantly, adding mass slowly and 'trimming' the fat if it gets a little too high.
    yeah the cals really help, especially the fats.

    Fats are essential for test production.

    what type of diet r u doing.

    with your cals in considerations, you might want to add zero carb, high fat,high protein item as your last meal.

    i dont know if your doing low carbs though.

    low carbs is very hard for me, below 50.

    its good for test production, since carbs are serotogenic which is anti-testosterone.

    I WISH I COULD BE 8-9!

    Genetically id say i gain muscle easy and lose fat harder.

    Essentially ive been bulking to an extent that i dont gain a lot of fat since i started. Ive done cuts of course, but been back and forth. Really stay at this same bodyfat percentage usually.i usually like a lean bulk, but maybe a dirty lean bulk. Only recently have i started to take cutting seriously. Since i feel i have enough muscle to show off, if you know what i mean.

    I started cutting at different times, and i didnt like how i looked really. i want to be cut and big.
  22. Mars1107
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    Ive alway found that straight on cut diets havent really worked for me, cause i couldnt stick with them, and if i did.

    It would be like my body adapted and then when i came off, id eventuall gain the fat back after a few months.

    Now id consider myself cutting. Altough im just trying to take steps in the right direction, consitently try to improve my diet and what i eat. Ive also been take eca for a while, and the sides are pretty non existent Been upping my cardio to almost everyday,high intensity smimming. Also the eca helps me in school, so i hit two birds with one stone. Psuedoephrine works pretty good too, and whats kind of sucks is that my doctor put me on allegra-d for like three years which had psuedoepdrine, when i was younger, i think it desentized me to it. Not that it works, but i just feel great on the stuff, kind of like NORMAL. not crazy zippy energy.

    After another month of this im going to do an oral cycle, very well planned one. Its gonna be lean bulking. Im not the type of person that wants to get CUT for summer. Im looking for my longterm goals. I will be doing much lower fat than usual though, since i dont need the fat, since ill have external test sources in my body, no need to keep the fat high. The carbs will be moderate, and the protein,very high.

    Then wait three months and do some Furazadrol with cort control, and some other fat loss agents, for an all out LOW cal diet. In which i want to lose as much fat as possible, and the muscle, i only want to conserve it, thats what the furazadrols for.

    then continue naturally, with supps of course
  23. UKStrength
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    yeah the cals really help, especially the fats.

    Fats are essential for test production.

    what type of diet r u doing.
    High protein, moderate carbohydrate and moderate-low fat intake (40/40/20).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    with your cals in considerations, you might want to add zero carb, high fat,high protein item as your last meal.
    This is typically what I do anyway, it helps to promote growth hormone release (no carbohydrates) as does a mild restriction of food late in the evening (1-2 hours prior to bed).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    i dont know if your doing low carbs though.
    Not particularly, ~3.8g/kg/LBM. not as much as recommended for strength/power athletes but plenty for glycogen resynthesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    low carbs is very hard for me, below 50.
    I've only ever done low carbohydrates once and it wasn't for me (felt like crap) and I felt constantly 'unsatisfied' after a meal.

    However, I have lowered my carbohydrate intake substantially (from 6g+/kg/LBM) and raised my fat intake over the years and this only seems to have improved my performance. I'm contemplating whether to drop my intake of carbohydrates further (3g/kg/LBM) and raise total fat intake (especially from mono and saturated sources) to improve my hormonal profile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    its good for test production, since carbs are serotogenic (oestrogenic?) which is anti-testosterone.
    I don't think the problem lies totally in carbohydrate intake per se, I think 'type' and 'timing' of carbohydrates to manipulate insulin to your best interests is the key. Insulin is a really powerful anabolic hormone and is excellent for glycogen and protein synthesis post-workout, so to remove carbohydrates from the post-training 'window' in my eyes is a wasted opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    I WISH I COULD BE 8-9!
    Lol, so do I! I'm almost there and when I get there I plan to stay there indefinitely and lean bulk constantly, no silly all-out bulks ever again.

    I'll be updating my log pictures again on monday so we'll see if I'm getting closer to my goal won't we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    Genetically id say i gain muscle easy and lose fat harder.
    I disagree, I'm meso with a strong endomorphic tendency and it has taken me far longer to build the muscle I have (8 years of lifting) but only a few months to shed a ton of fat (30+ lbs of it).
  24. Mars1107
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    by serotogenic, i meant serotonin.

    Its the mood hormone

    serotonin inhibits test production

    thats why they call low carbs diets The anabolic diet

    The CKD also highlights this

    You need carbs for shure, but in these diets you switch on and off from very very low carbs to one day of extremely high carbs
  25. New Member
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    I want to quote everything and respond but there's so much lol. My diet hasn't been low carb, but before bed it's usually a can of tuna, and MAYBE some PB. My last cut was low carb and went well, but I wanted to try just cutting calories on my normal eating habits this time. My diet is DEFINITELY low fat. In my bloodwork my triglycerides were low, maybe that is contributing to the testosterone drop, coupled with too low of calories, a lot of fiber, and no carbs for an hour after my workouts. I also have been doing a lot of morning fasted workouts.

    I think it's time to slowly go back to maintenance, but like Mars said, I think my body also adapts to my low calories, and I'll have to come out of it slow to keep the fat off. Hopefully this will work itself out before I end up doing more harm than good!

    I'll definitely throw up some pictures of my current bf, I took them two days ago I just am having trouble finding the usb cable for the camera haha.

    Mars you also said you were planning a cycle... I was too. My first, and now it looks like I'll be postponing it a little while. I planned it for a loooong time though, so I'm pretty prepared, this just means I have more time to research though. The blood work was part of the prep too so this is good.

    On another note, I'm curious as to why the waistline bodyfat is so hard to get rid of. I personally feel like it's estrogenic and takes A LOT more to get the lean hard look. When I've seen people run cycles, they're able to get rid of this fat, only leading me to believe more it's in some way hormone related. Anyone feel the same way?
  26. Mars1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post

    On another note, I'm curious as to why the waistline bodyfat is so hard to get rid of. I personally feel like it's estrogenic and takes A LOT more to get the lean hard look. When I've seen people run cycles, they're able to get rid of this fat, only leading me to believe more it's in some way hormone related. Anyone feel the same way?
    Its cortisol and estrogen related. Probally both in most cases.

    maybe you wanna do a transdermal Form and Supress-C, instead of doing a cycle. But actually this is going into my post cycle, among other things.
  27. Mars1107
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    i should gain in my cycle, and gain out of my cycle

    during the cycle im looking for muscle gains mainly

    after im gonna go back to looking for fat gains.

    But in my pct, since im putting so many supps, i should gain muscle in pct as well.
  28. New Member
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    So its been a couple weeks, I've been eating a lot more lately with higher fat intake to juice my testosterone. Probably gained a lb or 2 also lol. My workouts have mostly been low rep with higher weight, and more compound exercises with explosive movements. I'm seeing and endocrinologist finally this week, so I'll update one what I find out for sure... I'll also be updating my long drawn out progress log with pics this week, just been real busy as I'm down south for part of the summer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post
    So three days ago I had my first blood work done, ever. Today they were faxed to me from the doctor, with the recommendation I eat more protein and healthy foods such as fish and meats.... That's kind of odd as I have AT LEAST 160grams a day no matter what, usually a lot more. I eat ONLY healthy foods, no butter loaded or fat exploding dishes, and almost no simple sugars other than fruits(eating around 2200 cals a day right now).
    Doctor also said that I may be taking too much tylenol and maybe drinking way too much. Weird, haven't had a sip of alcohol in 2 months, and no tylenol in I can't remember how long.

    I'm turning 20 in 3 days, I'm 6' 1", and now around 177lbs.

    Here's what is out of range:

    Absolute LYMPHOCYTES: 1197, Normal is 1200-5200cells/uL
    BILIRUBIN: 1.4, Normal is 0.2-1.1 mg/dL (doctor said this means liver toxicity)
    White Blood Cell Count: 3.2, Normal is 4.5-13 thousand/uL
    Platelet Count: 110, Normal is 140-400 thousand/uL
    Absolute NEUTROPHILS: 1610, Normal is 1800-8000 cells/uL

    TRIGLYCERIDES: 34, Normal is 38-152 mg/dL
    HDL CHOLESTEROL: 73, Normal is 31-65 mg/dL
    ^^^My total cholesterol is 166, and LDL is 86(those two are normal)

    ::::

    Now, luckily I convinced the doctor to take my free testosterone as well, as she was reluctant saying that normally they don't do that unless there is a reason. I told her I just really wanted to know, and she was able to get it done.(without other hormones like estrogen though)

    Although this didn't show as out of range, so I don't think she took notice, my levels were 271 ng/dL, while the reference range for adult males was 241-827 ng/dL. Now this kind of gets me thinking, because I'm 19 years old, and I haven't had a high libido since I was 16.(for about 8 months with this crazy girlfriend, all I wanted to do was ram her everyday). After that though, I hadn't had steady sex in a while, and maybe just some on and off flings. Now I could care less about sex, and literally sometimes don't masterbate because I'm too lazy. Maybe once every two weeks...

    For a month and a half my daily supplements have looked like this:

    1 MegaMen's sport Multivitamin
    1 Green Tea Capsule(365mg)
    2 Fish Oil Capsules
    2-3 grams pure L-arginine (1g morning, 1g at night, 1g pre-workout)
    5 grams pure Creatine Mono (Either morning or Post workout)
    1 Slim Xtreme capsule in the morning
    1 serving of ZMA before bed every night
    (last week also have been using some leftover DCP)

    Other than that I also take whey isolate post workout, and protein blends before bed or as meal replacements.

    My diet is solid. Healthy foods, lean meats, complex carbs, barely any HFCS, fruits, a lot of veggies, and healthy fats.


    ::::

    Does anyone have any insight into why I'm off in my blood work? And maybe the low testosterone is keeping me from the gains I should be making. I fear also having a higher estrogen level, but I can't be sure as I don't know.

    I want to do something about this, what type of doctor should I see? And has anyone else had similar problems?
    really nice post . i think its really a great post
  

  
 

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