CLA & Sesamin

  1. CLA & Sesamin

    What types of fat are these? I'm assuming they are fats since they are oils, right?

  2. I googled this just the other day for CLA 'cause I was curious...Here is a wikipedia answer:

    Most studies of CLAs have used a mixture of isomers wherein the isomers c9, t11-CLA and t10, c12-CLA were the most abundant ones.[4]

    Conjugated linoleic acid is both a trans fatty acid and a cis fatty acid. The cis bond causes a lower melting point and ostensibly also the observed beneficial health effects. Unlike other trans fatty acids, it is not harmful, but beneficial.[5] CLA is conjugated, and in the United States, trans linkages in a conjugated system are not counted as trans fats for the purposes of nutritional regulations and labeling. CLA and some trans isomers of oleic acid are produced by microorganisms in the rumens of ruminants. Non-ruminants, including humans, produce certain isomers of CLA from trans isomers of oleic acid, such as vaccenic acid, which is converted to CLA by delta-9-desaturase.[6][7]
    and the link:

  3. So, it's a trans fatty acid? Heh, weird. It seems as everyone thinks trans fats are the devil. Apparently not all the time.

  4. trans and cis are just a description of the double bonds.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  5. Huh?

    In baby terms?

  6. cla is an omega-6 polyunsaturated fat.

    the 'trans' is only referring to the molecular structure.

  7. Now that is something a simple person like me can understand.

  8. dr houser on cla + sesamin.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Q: How many grams do we need to see benefits for each one?

    dinoiii's A:

    [1] CLA

    Rat Studies: First, when studies showed that if 1% of the total diet by weight, which comes to 10g/kg x 6 weeks offers significant metabolic change; however this yields HUGE doses when translated to humans ... the prototypical 200 pound-bodybuilder for instance would need about 91 grams of CLA, but that would be to see a reduction of bodyfat by 43-88% if the studies translated neatly. So while its neat and you could hypothetically see huge losses if replicated in humans exactly, it is likely we did some things...we went on to down that initial 1% of the total diet to 0.5%, but you still when translated to humans would get in the range of a 15-60% reduction in body fat with a 14% increase in lean body mass. Sweet Jesus! Still likely impractical as 45 grams of CLA per day too is a bit too much. So, what did we do, we attempted to create standardization techniques when we did some Petri analyses of the various isomeric constituents of the compound.

    To keep it simple, I will ALWAYS SAY stick with either Tonalin or Clarinol brands, though Tonalin still trumps the latter in how much they tend to be able to sequester as an FYI. This is what studies are done on ... all the other stuff is pure hogwash! Vitamin Shoppe sells a quality Tonalin CLA (like 180 caps for $29 ... and consider saving on both shipping and getting points in their little club and you can mass dose to match any other silly companies projections).

    Adequate Efficacious Dosing (Volume of Distribution):

    < 150 pounds: gain more weight!!!!
    150-170 pounds: 8-10 grams
    170-200 pounds: 10-12 grams
    200-230 pounds: 12-14 grams
    > 240 pounds: It likely becomes a bit less economical!!!

    [2] Omega 3's

    I have been saying it since I began writing on these bb boards and it is a VERY long time that you could trace it: 3 grams of combined supplemental EPA and DHA. No! I did NOT suggest weight categories just yet, that is the average... but to expand on this so people can see why I have picked this number, I will sure do. Deal?

    I won't focus on all of the health benefits, Lord knows I have spoken of them judiciously in other places. What I will offer up is information you can use to deal with better body comp ... which leads me to my aforementioned 3 grams number. I didn't just arbitrarily pull a number out of my hat, ya know? Though in many "experts" work, it would seem that they do just that. Studies that used ranges of 2,000 - 4,000 mg (2-4 grams) per day of EPA + DHA from supplements and fish have reported significant increases in strength as well as aerobic performance (though I also argue that data might suggest that the aerobic part not be needed ... but again ... this is all over the place in my writing as well, but there are aerobic fibers that will aid body comp while performing high rep movements too and I have talked about the definitions of "intensity" in places on this very forum - aerobic and anaerobic and how they vary). What kind of improvements you ask? Bench Press repetitions, faster running times, reduced muscular inflammation (again ... appropriate timing may bode body comp just as much as a cycle of AA, but this is certainly subject for debate), as well as longer jumping distances. The hypothesized models that scientists offer to suggest why such effects might be seen: combined effects EPA and DHA might have on the body, including: improved GH production (and likely more important subsequent IGF-1), anti-inflammatory action, enhanced oxygen metabolism, lower blood viscosity (thickness) leading to better oxygen and nutrient delivery to muscles, and obviously improved recovery - the last one more likely a secondary event.

    So what about my recommendations further broken down (hehe ... I know 3 grams is just an average)...

    Adequate Efficacious Dosing (Volume of Distribution):

    <170 pounds: 2 grams combined EPA + DHA
    170-200 pounds: 3 grams combined EPA + DHA
    > 200 pounds: 4 grams combined EPA + DHA

    * dinoiii's note: while one could expect the potential added bonus of more when body weights are higher than 230 pounds or so, higher tallies have never been suggested in supplemental form, so I am not sure additional benefit (at least from a well-researched aspect) would be of more benefit.

    [3] Sesamin

    Again ... not really a fatty acid per se, a lignan extract ... but caloric tallies still apply because of it being an extract NOT a new drug (not sure if that makes much sense, but trust me on that one without making me type it out).

    Due to the concentrated areas of PPAR receptors, namely where new fats are ... i.e. - the liver in highest concentration. The use of sesamin can theoretically prevent storage of new fats at their production site (the liver) would hault the process at its epicenter. But, it also sets into action the cascade of lipid breakdown in the liver as well (at least animal studies support this very well).

    You asked about synergies above. Well, sesamin also boosts the weight-loss effects of CLA. Japanese scientists studied whether dietary manipulations could enhance CLA's effects in reducing body fat. They found that sesamin helped stimulate the loss of adipose tissue. Researchers think that sesame lignans increase CLA's effects by stimulating a pathway of fatty acid breakdown called beta-oxidation.

    The combination of CLA with sesamin is also effective in lowering serum triglycerides, according to another research team. Triglycerides may increase the risk of heart disease and stroke. Enhanced fatty-acid oxidation in the liver may be responsible for the triglyceride-lowering effect of CLA and sesamin.

    That's not all though...and this is where Brent's questions were kind of blurred. Sesamin also enhance vitamin E's absorption and availability, improve lipid profiles, and help normalize blood pressure.

    Here's where our discussion gets a bit sticky. The use of sesame seed lignans like sesamin or episesamin is said to act on PPAR alpha receptors to activate beta oxidation cascades, but this gets very complex in nature for the scope of this piece I think. What you more likely want to know is how to come up with dosing parameters.

    While dosing parameters haven't been anything but seems to have an added benefit with increasing dose and likely requires a ramp up with weight. Studies on rats actually showed most benefit at .5% of the diet. Of course to alter higher basal metabolisms, one could assume dose-adjustment in increment-fashion as weight increases but NOTHING MORE. Again don√Ę‚‚¨‚„Ęt fall for an ad claim.

    Does this mean not to use it? NO, in fact, I think that its use is well hypothesized and the potential synergism that exists with CLA cannot and should NOT be overlooked!

    Avant Labs is the company that will boast being the "first to bring sesamin to the market"... well I agree with it with modification ... Avant was the first SPORTS SUPPLEMENT company to offer this addition and nothing more. Its not a new invention and has been around for years ... just look at the life-extensionist camps! Remember that there are two sides of the supplement market - both happen to take ideas from one another. I am not saying it is a bad thing, in fact ...only the consumer could benefit ... that is, provided companies get dosing suggestion and the like purported properly.

    That said, the dosing here is a bit different and must be adjusted accordingly. See the values that follow.

    Adequate Efficacious Dosing (Volume of Distribution):

    <170 pounds: 500 mg 3 times per day
    170-200 pounds: 1000 mg 3 times per day
    > 200 pounds: 1500 mg 3 times per day

    [4] Quick Notes about the best of the rest

    Monounsaturates: Stick to nuts (walnuts, pecans, and almonds ONLY for the body- builder), avocados, and olive oils.

    Medium-Chain Triglycerides (MCTs): Conflicting reports, likely unable to attain a good efficacious dose that is also cost-efficient. During times of dieting anecdotal report alone says 400 calories of a 2000 calorie diet comprised of MCTs produce good results. You know how dinoiii interprets this nonsense? When 400 calories of an already calorically-deficient diet likely rendering it on the lower-carb side is employed, the only thing that could likely happen is weight loss ... anything else, I say stick with the above.

  9. This is my interpretation (for me at least at 170):

    8-10 Nutraplanet CLA Supreme Caps
    10 Nutraplanet Omega-3 Caps
    6 Sesamin Caps

    That seem about right?

  10. Oh, and sesamin can't be considered a poly or mono fat?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Emerge View Post
    Oh, and sesamin can't be considered a poly or mono fat?
    te sesamin itself? no

    However, the sesame oil that contains the lignans? most definitely.

  12. So the lignan containing oil is a mono fat?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Emerge View Post
    So the lignan containing oil is a mono fat?
    It's both a poly and a mono.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  14. That's insanity.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Emerge View Post
    That's insanity.
    it's basically a complex oil eith, I believe about half component polyunsaturated.

  16. half poly half mono

    wow indeed

  17. I have been experiencing some discomfort from the cla. It seems that my first dose is fine at two pills, but after taking my second dose I feel sick. My apetite is suppressed and I feel really grossed out and generally disinterested with food.

    Does this happen often?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Emerge View Post
    I have been experiencing some discomfort from the cla. It seems that my first dose is fine at two pills, but after taking my second dose I feel sick. My apetite is suppressed and I feel really grossed out and generally disinterested with food.

    Does this happen often?
    No, it shouldn't be.

  19. Problem is, my girlfriend accidentally double dosed CLA and experienced the same effects.

  20. are you taking it with or without food?

  21. With food.

  22. Hmmm I've taken if without food before and just noticed some heart burn but not sick really



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