How to implement low GI PWO - AnabolicMinds.com

How to implement low GI PWO

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    How to implement low GI PWO


    I've read from several sources stating that high GI carbs are not necessary PWO [low GI carbs are just as effective since u supposedly don't need the initial insulin spike], and was wondering how one could effectively apply this.

    If I were to consume a shake containing whey + oatmeal powder (low GI) + water PWO....

    1. Isn't the oatmeal going to slow down the digestion of the whey leading to insufficient amino acids for protein synthesis during this so-called optimum window thereby losing out on potential gains?

    2. Is a low GI carb such as oatmeal PWO sufficient for maximum muscle gain PWO?

    Thoughts anyone? All suggestions / comments are welcome.

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    Has anyone else come across this dilemma PWO? Supposedly you need Carbs+Protein immediately after working out; however, wouldn't a low GI carb source such as oatmeal slow down the digestion of whey? If so how does one utilize low GI PWO?

    Thoughts anyone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteaminDman View Post
    I've read from several sources stating that high GI carbs are not necessary PWO [low GI carbs are just as effective since u supposedly don't need the initial insulin spike], and was wondering how one could effectively apply this.

    If I were to consume a shake containing whey + oatmeal powder (low GI) + water PWO....

    1. Isn't the oatmeal going to slow down the digestion of the whey leading to insufficient amino acids for protein synthesis during this so-called optimum window thereby losing out on potential gains?

    The fiber in the oatmeal won't slow down the amino acid uptake to any measurable degree. On top of this if you are taking in a sufficient pre work out meal and training correctly, your insulin levels will already be raised above resting levels (and unlike popular belief you don't need a massive insulin spike to achieve the post workout goal of getting nutrients to your muscles).

    2. Is a low GI carb such as oatmeal PWO sufficient for maximum muscle gain PWO?

    As stated above, yes it is an excellent source for post workout carbs. Studies have shown that glycogen synthesis and nutrient uptake differences between low gi and hi gi carbs is negligible for our needs. So unless you are training to glycogen depletion and training again within 8 hours your fine.


    Thoughts anyone? All suggestions / comments are welcome.


    Answers are bolded in the quote above
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCFan023 View Post
    Answers are bolded in the quote above
    Couldn't agree more i've tossed the waxy maize and it's oats or mini wheats for me post-workout and i haven't noticed any negatives, quite the opposite actually i'm getting leaner.

    Also consider this, when doing hit cardio or weightlifting your booster growth hormone levels well if you really spike insulin post-workout your blunting this effect, so eat your oats or low gi carb of your choice and enjoy the added gh boost.
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    what i've been doing lately is having cheerios pwo. the plain cheerios.

    it's an oat source of carbohydrates that tastes damn good. compared to your standard oatmeal, it has less fiber, since it is a bit more processed, however it does contain your standard multivitamin/mineral fortification over oatmeal.

    i also said screw it to the waxy maize, or dextrose + maltodextrin.

    i'm recovering just fine and I don't think I'm missing out on any gains either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCFan023 View Post
    Answers are bolded in the quote above
    OCCFan023 - Right on. That's exactly what I needed to know.

    Thanks everyone for the great replies.

    I've decided to adopt the following meal plan with the goal of bulking up for a 60kg skinny small-frame male:
    ============================== ======================
    [8:30AM] Breakfast
    Oatmeal + 1 whole egg + 3 egg whites + yoghurt (20g protein) + nuts

    [12Noon] Complete meal
    Rice + chicken + cooked vegetables + fruit (~20g protein)

    [5PM] Complete meal
    Rice + salmon + cooked vegetables (~20g protein)

    [7PM] Workout (1 hour)

    [8PM] Immediately PWO :
    Blended pre-cooked oatmeal powder + whey shake in a ratio of 2 to 1. 50g oatmeal, 25g whey. I'm not sure if the ratio is optimal

    [9PM] Complete meal
    Chicken Sandwich (25g protein) + oatmeal + nuts + fruit. I figure it takes 1 hour for the whey to digest.

    Pre-Bed [11:30PM]
    Nuts + (Whey - Casein shake) + 1slice cheddar cheese (15g protein). Cottage cheese is not an option.

    Total: 125g protein
    ============================== ======================
    I workout heavy 3x a week and haven't gained mass in months while following a very similar plan [no oatmeal pwo]. I suspects it's due to insufficient calories--my metabolism is pretty fast; therefore, I plan to counteract this by
    consuming a little more carbs and a LOT more nuts (healthy fats) since my protein intake is already near 1g-per-pound of bodyweight.

    Let me know what you guys think. Spot any weaknesses? Perhaps the pre-workout nutrition is lacking?

    Feel free to blast me on this - with good reason of course.
    Last edited by SteaminDman; 01-19-2009 at 06:42 AM. Reason: make it more readable
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    I'd say you are fine although your protein is a little on the low end.
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    Yea I would up your protein to 1.5 grams/lbm as you labeled yourself a hard gainer. As far as post workout ratio I (and many people I know) like a 3:1 or a little less (I go 40-50 grams protein with about 100-120 grams of carbs depending on what I trained that day).

    Solid setup though man, but be sure to adjust calories accordingly as you make progress.

    good luck
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    What about throwing one serving f cheerios in your post workout shake?

    How many total carbs are those of you taking the low GI route using?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    What about throwing one serving f cheerios in your post workout shake?

    How many total carbs are those of you taking the low GI route using?
    Overall or just post workout?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHAPS View Post
    Couldn't agree more i've tossed the waxy maize and it's oats or mini wheats for me post-workout and i haven't noticed any negatives, quite the opposite actually i'm getting leaner.

    Also consider this, when doing hit cardio or weightlifting your booster growth hormone levels well if you really spike insulin post-workout your blunting this effect, so eat your oats or low gi carb of your choice and enjoy the added gh boost.
    well no kidding you're getting leaner, mini wheats are pretty much the greatest food out there (*****ed only by cinnamon toast crunch and corn pops)
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    lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCFan023 View Post
    Overall or just post workout?
    Post workout...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    Post workout...
    80-100 depending on the intensity of the workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCFan023 View Post
    80-100 depending on the intensity of the workout.
    No way. That is way too many carbs. I could see 50 at the max, especially if you are just lifting, with no cardio. I figured the rules for low GI would be a little different for post workout. Each carb also = 4 calories, so there you are taking in AT LEAST 320 cals fom just carbs. Not to mention if you take 30-40g protein and 10g of casein from milk, that is another 160. Throw in a tbsp of natty PB, and you got yourself 570-620 cals PWO. That is a lot IMO.

    I don't feel/notice a difference if I stay down in the 25-40g range.

    Someone who knows a lot about this needs to come by and speculate!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    No way. That is way too many carbs. I could see 50 at the max, especially if you are just lifting, with no cardio. I figured the rules for low GI would be a little different for post workout. Each carb also = 4 calories, so there you are taking in AT LEAST 320 cals fom just carbs. Not to mention if you take 30-40g protein and 10g of casein from milk, that is another 160. Throw in a tbsp of natty PB, and you got yourself 570-620 cals PWO. That is a lot IMO.

    I don't feel/notice a difference if I stay down in the 25-40g range.

    Someone who knows a lot about this needs to come by and speculate!

    I'm not saying this is for everyone, I just eat what I like and what gets the job done. Between a whole wheat bagel, a banana, and 2-3 cups of skim milk it can be reached very easily. Also I am usually on AP or P-Slin with the added benefit of extra cardio from sports. All about the individual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    No way. That is way too many carbs. I could see 50 at the max, especially if you are just lifting, with no cardio. I figured the rules for low GI would be a little different for post workout. Each carb also = 4 calories, so there you are taking in AT LEAST 320 cals fom just carbs. Not to mention if you take 30-40g protein and 10g of casein from milk, that is another 160. Throw in a tbsp of natty PB, and you got yourself 570-620 cals PWO. That is a lot IMO.

    I don't feel/notice a difference if I stay down in the 25-40g range.

    Someone who knows a lot about this needs to come by and speculate!
    I agree, some carbs are needed but I get by just fine with 20-30 and I am usually doing weights and HIIT in the same session
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    I loves me some unsweetened apple sauce w/ pea protein isolate mixed in!!
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    Low GI is fine.. I love oats post-workout, WMS/Dextrose etc. give me the same recovery.. but added size around the waist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrasslin116 View Post
    Low GI is fine.. I love oats post-workout, WMS/Dextrose etc. give me the same recovery.. but added size around the waist.
    Exactly. I started a while back, adding about 50g of WMS to my post WO shakes, and it didn't benefit me one bit. This could be, because I do not use a product like P-Slin etc... However, for an average maintenance/lean bulk diet, I don't see why 25-30% of your daily carbs should be pounded in one session. IMO, it should be Low GI all day long. Maybe 20 or so grams after workout, but that's it. Fruit is also a waste of time IMO, unless it's first thing in the AM.

    EDIT: And if it is the insulin spike you are looking for, consuming Low GI carbs about 1-1.5 hrs before your workout, will keep your insulin 4-5x the norm 2 hours past your workout.

    Or you could just use a higher dose of leucine, 5g or so, and it should do the trick. This way you get the spike w/out the carbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    Exactly. I started a while back, adding about 50g of WMS to my post WO shakes, and it didn't benefit me one bit. This could be, because I do not use a product like P-Slin etc... However, for an average maintenance/lean bulk diet, I don't see why 25-30% of your daily carbs should be pounded in one session. IMO, it should be Low GI all day long. Maybe 20 or so grams after workout, but that's it. Fruit is also a waste of time IMO, unless it's first thing in the AM.

    EDIT: And if it is the insulin spike you are looking for, consuming Low GI carbs about 1-1.5 hrs before your workout, will keep your insulin 4-5x the norm 2 hours past your workout.

    Or you could just use a higher dose of leucine, 5g or so, and it should do the trick. This way you get the spike w/out the carbs.
    This all could be individually dependent of course. I train closer to the end of the day, so my carbs should be tapered at this point anyway. Regardless of it's theoretical benefits.

    Speculators, toss your flames if you must!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    And if it is the insulin spike you are looking for, consuming Low GI carbs about 1-1.5 hrs before your workout, will keep your insulin 4-5x the norm 2 hours past your workout.
    That's exactly how I view it.. I gain just fine without carbs post workout, adding carbs doesn't really seem to make a difference for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCFan023 View Post
    80-100 depending on the intensity of the workout.
    Yup me too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    Exactly. I started a while back, adding about 50g of WMS to my post WO shakes, and it didn't benefit me one bit. This could be, because I do not use a product like P-Slin etc... However, for an average maintenance/lean bulk diet, I[COLOR*********] don't see why 25-30% of your daily carbs should be pounded in one session[/COLOR]. IMO, it should be Low GI all day long. Maybe 20 or so grams after workout, but that's it. Fruit is also a waste of time IMO, unless it's first thing in the AM.

    EDIT: And if it is the insulin spike you are looking for, consuming Low GI carbs about 1-1.5 hrs before your workout, will keep your insulin 4-5x the norm 2 hours past your workout.

    Or you could just use a higher dose of leucine, 5g or so, and it should do the trick. This way you get the spike w/out the carbs.
    I do i always cycle carbs and only combine protein+fat or protein+carbs, so like now when i'm wanting to get a little leaner i'm only eating carbs in my breakfast and post-workout, the majority being post-workout so as to use the bulk of my carbs at a time when i know my body will utlize them all. And this is just what i've found personally so please don't ask for a study to prove this, not trying to come off as a jerk just getting tired of stating my personal experience with something and then being told i have to find information to back something i already know works.
  

  
 

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