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question about fat

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    question about fat


    Have been on and off with diet and exercise in the past two years but I had this question about dieting to loose fat. Is it true that you have to take in some fat to loose fat as opposed to little to none fat intake?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ciga102 View Post
    Have been on and off with diet and exercise in the past two years but I had this question about dieting to loose fat. Is it true that you have to take in some fat to loose fat as opposed to little to none fat intake?
    Yes.
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    Fats play essential roles in numerous bodily functions (one of the most important being hormone regulation). Don't eliminate macro nutrients for a "diet". Eat a well balanced diet and keep those healthy fats coming in.
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    What are examples of "healthy fats" and how much are necessary in a diet to loose weight. Ive been on Atkins for 2 years without exercise and lost 20 pounds but i still have a gut , I'm starting to run now and want to switch up my eating habits to a more balanced diet.
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    ah this thread has just reminded me to take my spoonful of coconut oil. off i go
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciga102 View Post
    What are examples of "healthy fats" and how much are necessary in a diet to loose weight. Ive been on Atkins for 2 years without exercise and lost 20 pounds but i still have a gut , I'm starting to run now and want to switch up my eating habits to a more balanced diet.
    The worst fat: Trans fats
    Bad: Saturated fat.
    Good: Polyunsaturated fat
    The best: Monounsaturated fat.

    It's easy to cut trans fat out completely, almost impossible to completly cut out saturated, but you can keep it low.

    Poly and Mono should be your biggest intake of fats. A lot of people supplement with EFA's (essential fatty acids) to get the full amount of the good stuff at each serving.

    Cortisol does play a role in belly fat as well. May want to supp with an anti-cortisol.

    JMTC.
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    Ignore any low-fat diet you hear about. If you want to change your diet to help reduce fat then remove a large amount of your carb intake. Carbs and calories are used for energy by your body but when you do not use up all the carbs/calories that you intake in a day then your body will store it as fat. Fats are very important when it comes to fat loss among other things. I would highly suggest supplementing with some form of Omega-3 fatty acids and keep it as a staple. Real mayo is a great source of monounsaturated fat/omega-3s and fish is obviously a great choice when it comes to dieting as it is high in protein and omega3 but is non existent in the carb area.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graglor View Post
    Bad: Saturated fat.
    saturated fat has a bad reputation due to the past few decades of doctors telling us that it's dietary cholesterol is bad for cardiovascular health.
    in reality sat fat is only bad if you are already overweight and/or have high cholesterol.

    recently studies have found that dietary intake of cholesterol has no impact on the level of cholesterol in your blood.
    cholesterol is also important for testosterone production as well as maintaining the integrity of muscle cell membranes.
    so higher dietary cholesterol has been associated with greater gains in lean body mass.

    and low testosterone can lead to less lean body mass and higher fat mass --> high cholesterol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    saturated fat has a bad reputation due to the past few decades of doctors telling us that it's dietary cholesterol is bad for cardiovascular health.
    in reality sat fat is only bad if you are already overweight and/or have high cholesterol.

    recently studies have found that dietary intake of cholesterol has no impact on the level of cholesterol in your blood.
    cholesterol is also important for testosterone production as well as maintaining the integrity of muscle cell membranes.
    so higher dietary cholesterol has been associated with greater gains in lean body mass.

    and low testosterone can lead to weight gain --> high cholesterol.


    Examples of healthy fats are: avocado, natural peanut butter, unsweetened coconut, olive oil, organic butter, nuts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    saturated fat has a bad reputation due to the past few decades of doctors telling us that it's dietary cholesterol is bad for cardiovascular health.
    in reality sat fat is only bad if you are already overweight and/or have high cholesterol.

    recently studies have found that dietary intake of cholesterol has no impact on the level of cholesterol in your blood.
    cholesterol is also important for testosterone production as well as maintaining the integrity of muscle cell membranes.
    so higher dietary cholesterol has been associated with greater gains in lean body mass.

    and low testosterone can lead to less lean body mass and higher fat mass --> high cholesterol.
    Interesting. I've read posts in threads about huge bulking diets where people are saying it doesn't matter what fat you eat just as long as you get it. Perhaps that's why. For all intensive purposes would you still want to keep SATS down. I just didn't think it has as many positives........... joints, test production etc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graglor View Post
    Interesting. I've read posts in threads about huge bulking diets where people are saying it doesn't matter what fat you eat just as long as you get it. Perhaps that's why. For all intensive purposes would you still want to keep SATS down. I just didn't think it has as many positives........... joints, test production etc?
    Your body requires a balance of saturated and unsaturated fats. Don't skip out on the saturated fat, but don't make it the primary source of your dietary fat intake either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebab View Post
    Your body requires a balance of saturated and unsaturated fats. Don't skip out on the saturated fat, but don't make it the primary source of your dietary fat intake either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graglor View Post
    Interesting. I've read posts in threads about huge bulking diets where people are saying it doesn't matter what fat you eat just as long as you get it. Perhaps that's why. For all intensive purposes would you still want to keep SATS down. I just didn't think it has as many positives........... joints, test production etc?
    I've been taking 1+ tbsp of coconut oil (Almost all sat fats) and 6-12 eggs for over a year, and when I got my physical done in the fall my lipids/chol were great. Now I know this is due to other parts of my diet (I eat massive amounts of oat bran, veggies, no junk food/trans fats), but just reinforcing that Sat Fats aren't as terrible as they were made out to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    I've been taking 1+ tbsp of coconut oil (Almost all sat fats) and 6-12 eggs for over a year, and when I got my physical done in the fall my lipids/chol were great. Now I know this is due to other parts of my diet (I eat massive amounts of oat bran, veggies, no junk food/trans fats), but just reinforcing that Sat Fats aren't as terrible as they were made out to be.

    Yup, my bad. Talked to a buddy of mine today who has endless access to blood work. He was eating whole, hard boiled eggs (and other stuff) for bulking. At first, his cholesterol went up, but then came back down to normal and he is super fit. This is great, always learning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    saturated fat has a bad reputation due to the past few decades of doctors telling us that it's dietary cholesterol is bad for cardiovascular health.
    in reality sat fat is only bad if you are already overweight and/or have high cholesterol.

    recently studies have found that dietary intake of cholesterol has no impact on the level of cholesterol in your blood.
    cholesterol is also important for testosterone production as well as maintaining the integrity of muscle cell membranes.
    so higher dietary cholesterol has been associated with greater gains in lean body mass.

    and low testosterone can lead to less lean body mass and higher fat mass --> high cholesterol.
    why is saturated fat bad if you are overweight and or have high cholesterol?
    I have my opinions and i disagree but interested to see what your response is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gekkoboy14 View Post
    why is saturated fat bad if you are overweight and or have high cholesterol?
    I have my opinions and i disagree but interested to see what your response is.
    Saturated and trans fats both can increase the risks of certain diseases. Those of which overweight people are already susceptible to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    Saturated and trans fats both can increase the risks of certain diseases. Those of which overweight people are already susceptible to.
    what diseases are contributed to saturated fats? Yes, trans i agree with
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    Although coconut oil's fatty acids have some of what seems to be significant applications, it is still over 90% saturated fat. Saturated fats, no matter what other good things they do, will still raise your LDL levels, and therefor cholesterol. But, after all this fat and carb talk, whether you increase your body fat or decrease your body fat comes down to calories. If you burn an extra 3500 calories, you will lose a pound of fat. If you absorb an extra 3500 cals, you will gain a pound of fat. The different substances (carbs to fats ratio, good fats to bad fats, cortisol, leptin, pyy, I can go forever) that are discussed only can give you so much of an edge. Focus on calories. Eliminate 500 a day to lose 1 pound a week.
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    all intents and purposes not all intensive purposes
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    Quote Originally Posted by nparisi View Post
    all intents and purposes not all intensive purposes

    That has always been a pet peeve of mine...along with:

    -supposeably
    -irregardless

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank
    saturated fat has a bad reputation due to the past few decades of doctors telling us that it's dietary cholesterol is bad for cardiovascular health.
    in reality sat fat is only bad if you are already overweight and/or have high cholesterol.

    recently studies have found that dietary intake of cholesterol has no impact on the level of cholesterol in your blood.
    cholesterol is also important for testosterone production as well as maintaining the integrity of muscle cell membranes.
    so higher dietary cholesterol has been associated with greater gains in lean body mass.

    and low testosterone can lead to less lean body mass and higher fat mass --> high cholesterol.
    Awesome Post!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gekkoboy14 View Post
    why is saturated fat bad if you are overweight and or have high cholesterol?
    I have my opinions and i disagree but interested to see what your response is.
    from what i've read, cholesterol impact on health is now a debatable issue.
    and saturated fat's role in cholesterol levels is now a debatable issue.

    it seems evident that overweight people handle and process fat sources very differently than leaner folks.
    for some people sat fats raise cholesterol levels, and for many others it has no effect.
    most often it is those who are overweight and/or are prone to high cholesterol levels that fall into the first category.

    although, it could very well be the fact that fatter people are typically consuming crappy sources of sat fats that are often times accompanied with trans-fat (the real culprit to issues like heart disease).
    even though evidence is now starting to favor no link between negative health issues and cholesterol/sat fats, i feel that it's probably best to still error on the side of caution if you are overweight and have high cholesterol.

    i'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject if you have different insight on the matter.
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    Certain fats got a bad rap because they were shown to promote atherosclerosis. Stearic acid has been shown to be neutral w.r.t. atherogenticity, and some studies on Coconut Oil lead to the same conclusion . (Sources : 12. Grundy, S.M. Influence of stearic acid on cholesterol metabolism relative to other long-chain fatty acids. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 60 (6 Suppl):986S-990S; 1994.

    13.Blackburn, G.L., G. Kater, E.A. Mascioli, M. Kowalchuk, V.K. Babayan, B.R. Bistrian. A reevaluation of coconut oil's effect on serum cholesterol and atherogenesis. The Journal of the Philippine Medical Association 65:144-152; 1989.)

    I agree with hank about the other unwanted junk that comes with saturated fats like trans fats. Not all fats are created equal. There really is no definitive answer yet, but those predisposed to heart conditions/atherosclerosis and CVD are probably better off trying to lower their intake of cholesterol and saturated fats. Actually a plant-based diet is very intriguing, but that's another story (See the China Study if you're interested in that)
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    Saturated fats are chemically inert, meaning attacking oxidizing radicals can have no effect on them, due to their bonded structure. However trans fats are a different story. I believe that high levels of insulin in combination with a sedentary lifestyle are the major contributors to CV disease.
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    cut the microwave popcorn out, I just realized the other day how much saturated and trans fat it has!! lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    That has always been a pet peeve of mine...along with:

    -supposeably
    -irregardless
    I hate when people say "Same Difference". God that irritates me! Ha it cant be the same and different all at once! Oxy-Moron
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    Saturated fats are chemically inert, meaning attacking oxidizing radicals can have no effect on them, due to their bonded structure. However trans fats are a different story. I believe that high levels of insulin in combination with a sedentary lifestyle are the major contributors to CV disease.
    Trans fats are pretty resistant to oxidation, just like saturated, which is why they both make such great and are used for preservatives.

    The actual idea behind trans fat wasn't a bad one... chemists had originally hoped that by turning a cis isomer of a mono-unsaturated fatty acid into a trans isomer, they would have both the health benefits of mono unsaturated fats and the stability of a saturated fatty acid... too bad they created the Damien of fatty acids.

    I definitely agree that the high insulin and sedentary lifestyle are the main cause of CVD. In my opinion, there is definitely a connection between eating sh***y carbs and high saturated fat foods with high LDL levels. There really doesn't seem to be the same kind of trend going on with healthy individuals who eat relatively clean diets, even if they are high in saturated fats.
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    then we are in agreement. And i know trans fats are also resistant to oxidation, but due to their structure it behaves differently in the body. But how to natural trans fats such as those found in coconut oil differ? that is something i do not know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gekkoboy14 View Post
    then we are in agreement. And i know trans fats are also resistant to oxidation, but due to their structure it behaves differently in the body. But how to natural trans fats such as those found in coconut oil differ? that is something i do not know.
    There's no trans-fats in coconut oil. http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fats-and-oils/508/2
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    they do, that website does not list them.. almost positive..
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    Quote Originally Posted by gekkoboy14 View Post
    they do, that website does not list them
    I welcome you to prove me wrong; however from all my research into CO, they do not contain trans fats to any relevant degree.
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    I know that trans fats can occur in nature but its a very low likelihood. If any are present in natural food, they are going to be at very very low levels which will not have any noticeable health impact.
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    so why does coconut oil get a "good rep" in bodybuilding circles that can look past the "saturated fat is evil" mentality?

    ive heard that most animal sources of fat have higher trace amounts of trans fat, though still less than .5 grams and not listed. are these just higher than in coconut oil?
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    so why does coconut oil get a "good rep" in bodybuilding circles that can look past the "saturated fat is evil" mentality?
    Not that I speak for all bodybuilders but to break it down there are different types of saturated fats, depending on the length of the carbon tail. Even the subtypes of fat in the three main types of fats have different functions in the body besides being burned for energy. Right now I'm too lazy too look up numbers but I'd assume it has a pretty good ratio of specific saturated fatty acids. But that's just a guess.

    Another thing is that if you are going to be eating meat, which the majority of bodybuilders do, you are going to be ingesting some amount of saturated fat. Coupled along the cholesterol found in meat as well as animal protein specific vitamins, blah blah blah... pretty much its unavoidable.

    Now a lot of organizations that are against saturated fat typically put the consumption of it into the context of a poorly managed diet; high contents of saturated fat used for cooking, deeply processed and fried food, empty calories, not enough fiber/vegetables. In reality, the way a good bodybuilder eats, which will be a clean diet with lots of good vegetables and clean carbs, I think counteracts that.

    ive heard that most animal sources of fat have higher trace amounts of trans fat, though still less than .5 grams and not listed. are these just higher than in coconut oil?
    I honestly have no clue, I haven't looked at any numbers pertaining to either.
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