Carbs necessary to burn fat?

[maurice02]

Been getting confused. Real confused.

I am looking to burn fat and maintain mass. Will be doing a cycle of havoc starting next week so I guess this would not pertain till afterwards.

My question. Is it safe to eat healthy carbs (oatmeal, whole wheat pasta, brown rice, etc...) while looking to burn fat?

 

[Hank Vangut]

depends. are you in calorie deficit?

 

[maurice02]

I wouldn't consider calorie deficit.

I am trying out the following for eating (while through my cycle as well).

7AM - Protein Shake
8:30 AM - 1 cup oatmeal, 1 egg
10AM - 1 egg
11:30 AM - lunch - 16oz grilled chicken, some kinda green veggie, 1 cup whole wheat pasta
1 PM - 1 egg
2:30 PM - Peanut butter and jelly sandwich on wheat bread
5PM - protein shake
6:30PM - Gym
9PM - Dinner (chicken/steak/fish along with veggie and brown rice) and a protein shake

Any criticism and help is greatly appreciated.

 

[maurice02]

I would like to maintain my muscle mass and lose the stomach fat that I have gotten over the past two months. I was out of the gym on injury and in all honesty paid no attention to diet. Tacked on unwanted weight.

 

[Aggravated]

I would like to maintain my muscle mass and lose the stomach fat that I have gotten over the past two months. I was out of the gym on injury and in all honesty paid no attention to diet. Tacked on unwanted weight.

Why run a PH/PS then? Get the diet in check and worry about the supplements later IMO.

 

[diezel]

i'd ditch the pb and J's. They're great for bulking, not so much for losing weight.

 

[ThomasRivera]

To answer your topic question. No, carbohydrates are in no way, shape or form necessary to burn fat at all. Carbohydrates purpose is to provide energy.

You can eat carbs and lose fat of course, caloric deficit, carb cycling and the such.

 

[maurice02]

Running the Havoc now to bulk up more before being "completely" dedicated to fat burning. I just don't see worrying about diet/cutting now and then bulking again. I rather do a cycle now and worry about cutting afterwards. That was my original intention.

Does the layout of food look ok otherwise?

 

[3dmuscle9122]

To answer your topic question. No, carbohydrates are in no way, shape or form necessary to burn fat at all. Carbohydrates purpose is to provide energy.

You can eat carbs and lose fat of course, caloric deficit, carb cycling and the such.

I would have to respectfully disagree. Fat Burns in a carbohydrate flame. Maximal fat utilization cannot occur without sufficient carbohdrate to continue (Krebs cycle activity).Definition: In all plants and animals: a series of enzymatic reactions in mitochondria involving oxidative metabolism of acetyl compounds to produce high-energy phosphate compounds that are the source of cellular energy)

Carbohydrates help to regulate the digestion and utilzation of protein and fat thus spares protein for muscle building.
It's all about finding the right ratio of,carbs, fat and protein.

I do agree Calories in, calories out.

 

[ABNRanger]

I admire you guys' knowledge of this stuff, but for the love of god, could you please just say things as simple or layman as possible. I am not knocking it, but I feel sometimes when a question is asked, by the time myself and the not so knowledgeable others are finished reading the response, we are more confused than before. Like I said no disrespect meant, just speaking out for the ones who chose not to.

 

[3dmuscle9122]

I admire you guys' knowledge of this stuff, but for the love of god, could you please just say things as simple or layman as possible. I am not knocking it, but I feel sometimes when a question is asked, by the time myself and the not so knowledgeable others are finished reading the response, we are more confused than before. Like I said no disrespect meant, just speaking out for the ones who chose not to.

I will try to brake it down as much as possible:

4 calories per 1 gram in protein 4 calories per 1 gram carbohydrate. 9 calories in 1 gram fat. It takes more time to burn fat, so if you want to burn fat faster you need fuel.
When the body is in resting state it's using 100% fuel from fats and 0% carbs.
When you are jogging 66% Fats 33% carbs. Sprinting 16% fats, 84% carbs. Think of your body as an engine, the hotter you run the more fuel you use. This is called the (law of thermodynamics) When your body tries to cool itself from an exercise there is an elevation of the body's metabolism.
Remember, it is not how much fat an individual burns that dictates body fat reduction. Instead it is how many calories are burned. That's what I mean by " fat burns in a carbohydrate flame." Maximal fat burning cannot occur without sufficient carbohydrate to continue.

Have you ever noticed why marathon runners drink so much Gatorade throughout the race? Without the carb drinks they will hit what's called "runner's wall". When this happends the body has run out of fuel and cannot convert their fat for energy fast enough.
You will see them drop like fly's.
Another example, I was reading about a guy that swam across some crazy distance over some ocean channel that took a day to complete. The way he was able to do it was he stored a bunch a fat then (Remember more calories in fat) As he swam he consumed high carb drinks throwout the day. By the time he was finished most of the fat was gone. If he did not consume the carbs most likely he would have hit a "wall" within a couple hours. How many calories do you think he burnt?

The goal is not to use protein as the energy source, but the carbohdrate as the main source. Your body would rather cannibalize itself rather than give up it's fat. Our body is programed this way for survival. Protein should be dedicated for growing and maintenance of muscle. The more muscle you have the more calories they burn. When choosing a diet make sure your not striping your carbs too much, but focus on the calories consumed. For me I like the 30%fat 40%Carb 30%Protein.

I hope this makes it clearer for you. Good luck

 

[liltexan]

i don't know how knowledgable i am on the the subject, but i think a lot of it has to do with timing as well. you could get away with eating carbs at certain times like in the morning more than you could at night. the carbs will be broken down into sugars faster than say protein, so they will most likely be stored as fat at night (completely contrary to your goal).

however, you may want to look up ketogenic diets and do some of your own research on those.

 

[maurice02]

All great advice. Thanks guys. I can see why everyone says HIIT burns the most carbs..........

I got into the Arc machine at the gym. Going to do that for 20 min to 1/2 hour after liftin 2 - 3 days a week while on Havoc. Not going overboard.

Afterwards gonna try and hit it 5 days a week.

 

[ThomasRivera]

I would have to respectfully disagree. Fat Burns in a carbohydrate flame. Maximal fat utilization cannot occur without sufficient carbohdrate to continue (Krebs cycle activity).Definition: In all plants and animals: a series of enzymatic reactions in mitochondria involving oxidative metabolism of acetyl compounds to produce high-energy phosphate compounds that are the source of cellular energy)

Carbohydrates help to regulate the digestion and utilzation of protein and fat thus spares protein for muscle building.
It's all about finding the right ratio of,carbs, fat and protein.

I do agree Calories in, calories out.

In conditions of low carbohydrate intake the body will make the shift to the break down of fats to meet most of it's energy sources. While only a few parts of the body will continue to require glucose, this glucose can be synthesized from the breakdown of glucogenic amino acids however.

dietary carbohydrates are conditionally essential, a ketogenic state is both protein and glucose sparing and makes fat the preferential source of burning.

 

[ThomasRivera]

I will try to brake it down as much as possible:

4 calories per 1 gram in protein 4 calories per 1 gram carbohydrate. 9 calories in 1 gram fat. It takes more time to burn fat, so if you want to burn fat faster you need fuel.
When the body is in resting state it's using 100% fuel from fats and 0% carbs.
When you are jogging 66% Fats 33% carbs. Sprinting 16% fats, 84% carbs. Think of your body as an engine, the hotter you run the more fuel you use. This is called the (law of thermodynamics) When your body tries to cool itself from an exercise there is an elevation of the body's metabolism.
Remember, it is not how much fat an individual burns that dictates body fat reduction. Instead it is how many calories are burned. That's what I mean by " fat burns in a carbohydrate flame." Maximal fat burning cannot occur without sufficient carbohydrate to continue.

Have you ever noticed why marathon runners drink so much Gatorade throughout the race? Without the carb drinks they will hit what's called "runner's wall". When this happends the body has run out of fuel and cannot convert their fat for energy fast enough.
You will see them drop like fly's.
Another example, I was reading about a guy that swam across some crazy distance over some ocean channel that took a day to complete. The way he was able to do it was he stored a bunch a fat then (Remember more calories in fat) As he swam he consumed high carb drinks throwout the day. By the time he was finished most of the fat was gone. If he did not consume the carbs most likely he would have hit a "wall" within a couple hours. How many calories do you think he burnt?

The goal is not to use protein as the energy source, but the carbohdrate as the main source. Your body would rather cannibalize itself rather than give up it's fat. Our body is programed this way for survival. Protein should be dedicated for growing and maintenance of muscle. The more muscle you have the more calories they burn. When choosing a diet make sure your not striping your carbs too much, but focus on the calories consumed. For me I like the 30%fat 40%Carb 30%Protein.

I hope this makes it clearer for you. Good luck

I agree, carbohydrates do help to maximize fat burning, but they aren't essential to the actual process of fat burning is what I'm getting at. If one were to go on a low carb diet, then carb load on the weekends they would have enough carbohydrate energy stored in the muscles to last them through the week.

On a maintenance level diet carbs do spare protein but they also spare fat. Low carb diets spare protein and make more efficient use of the limited glucose that is consumed during the diet.


The man your talking about that swam the chanel, did hit the wall. The wall is the point where glycogen levels are depleted and the body switches over to burning fat as it's primary source of energy.

 

[Hank Vangut]

Fat Burns in a carbohydrate flame???? wtf.

no......fat burns in a calorie deficit. period. end of story.

 

[3dmuscle9122]

Fat Burns in a carbohydrate flame???? wtf.

no......fat burns in a calorie deficit. period. end of story.

I'm speaking about the most efficient way to burn fat.
our body is most efficient burning our excess body fat, when we use carbohydrates as the primary fuel source. We need carbohydrates to do high intensity workouts. Thus the more energy we have the better we train and the more fat we burn afterwards.

carbohydrates are loaded with vitamins, minerals and antioxidants which will only lead to deficiencies and various health problems if we neglect them. They are also our bodies preferred source of energy. I'm only pointing that out.

I'm just sharing what I have learned and practiced.

 

[Hank Vangut]

there are essential fats and amino acids but is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.....meaning that your body does not require them to operate efficiently.

sure if you are running a marathon or swimming a channel then carbohydrates are useful in replenishing glycogen levels to support performance.
worrying about glycogen replenishment should only be a concern if you are a high level endurance athlete.
glycogen levels should not be a concern if you are a recreational fitness enthusiast or bodybuilder. only if you are severely malnourished will your glycogen levels drop low enough to impact performance during a 1 hr weight training session.

for your 1hr weight workouts and fat loss goals worrying about getting enough carbohydrates is unnecessary because:
1. glycogen replenishment is a 24hr/day process
2. glycogen replenishment can still happen in complete absence of carbohydrate.

 

[Esox Express]

I will try to brake it down as much as possible:

aaaaaaand that's where I stopped reading.

You don't need carbs to burn fat..... end of story. This topic has been brought up several times, and it always ends up with the same answer.

 

[3dmuscle9122]

I agree, carbohydrates do help to maximize fat burning, but they aren't essential to the actual process of fat burning is what I'm getting at. If one were to go on a low carb diet, then carb load on the weekends they would have enough carbohydrate energy stored in the muscles to last them through the week.

On a maintenance level diet carbs do spare protein but they also spare fat. Low carb diets spare protein and make more efficient use of the limited glucose that is consumed during the diet.


The man your talking about that swam the chanel, did hit the wall. The wall is the point where glycogen levels are depleted and the body switches over to burning fat as it's primary source of energy.

I totally agree on carb loading and low carb diets! I was just pointing out that consuming too low of carbs can effect performance , thus fat is not being effectively burnt to best of ability.

When your glycogen levels are depleted, fat takes a lot longer to brake down via enzymatic H2o-Co2 gas exchange thus keeping up his performance without the extra glycogen intake would be dramatically reduced and results in crash(Wall)

Great conversation.

 

[CopyCat]

There is a LOT of really good info discussed on this topic in this thread as well.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/112791-why-you-shouldn.html

 

[ThomasRivera]

there are essential fats and amino acids but is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.....meaning that your body does not require them to operate efficiently.

sure if you are running a marathon or swimming a channel then carbohydrates are useful in replenishing glycogen levels to support performance.
worrying about glycogen replenishment should only be a concern if you are a high level endurance athlete.
glycogen levels should not be a concern if you are a recreational fitness enthusiast or bodybuilder. only if you are severely malnourished will your glycogen levels drop low enough to impact performance during a 1 hr weight training session.

for your 1hr weight workouts and fat loss goals worrying about getting enough carbohydrates is unnecessary because:
1. glycogen replenishment is a 24hr/day process
2. glycogen replenishment can still happen in complete absence of carbohydrate.

How? I've read that glycogen and be removed and broken down to assist in glucose needs, but I've never read that glycogen stores can be restored in the absence of carbohydrates.

Really interested if you have any sources on it.

 

[Hank Vangut]

How? I've read that glycogen and be removed and broken down to assist in glucose needs, but I've never read that glycogen stores can be restored in the absence of carbohydrates.

Really interested if you have any sources on it.

yep. it's called gluconeogenesis - it's the process of making glucose from breakdown of fat or protein.

you can thanks your liver and kidney for your body's ability to do this.

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

Wheat products aren't that great for ya.

Stick with veggies, non-starchy. No sugar, unless it's from fruit. Oh, and you should prob switch from peanut butter to walnut butter.

 

[ThomasRivera]

yep. it's called gluconeogenesis - it's the process of making glucose from breakdown of fat or protein.

you can thanks your liver and kidney for your body's ability to do this.

Glucneogenisis was something I was aware of, but I thought it only occured when glucose requirements for the brain, and other glucose dependent organs of the body needed it. \

Never heard about it restoring glycogen levels in the muscles, i'll have to check out the pub med files.

 

[Hank Vangut]

glucose is synthesized through glucneogenisis for all your sugar requirements whether it be muscle, organs, or brain function.
glucose is glucose, so it isn't brain/organ specific.

it is estimated that up to 80% of the glycogen used during intense training is from gluconeogenesis.

 

[ThomasRivera]

glucose is synthesized through glucneogenisis for all your sugar requirements whether it be muscle, organs, or brain function.
glucose is glucose, so it isn't brain/organ specific.

it is estimated that up to 80% of the glycogen used during intense training is from gluconeogenesis.

Ahhh, I thought you meant restored as in I go to sleep and the levels raise back up. Really, as much as 80 percent, thats fascinating.

 

[Hank Vangut]

yes, in the absence of carbohydrate, glucneogenisis is used to raise depleted muscle glycogen levels even while you are sleeping

 

[Johnston]

Have you ever noticed why marathon runners drink so much Gatorade throughout the race?

Yes, and I've also noticed they're skinny ass mofos with no muscle, and based upon this research, low testostoerone too. No thanks. Bad example.

Another example, I was reading about a guy that swam across some crazy distance over some ocean channel that took a day to complete. The way he was able to do it was he stored a bunch a fat then (Remember more calories in fat) As he swam he consumed high carb drinks throwout the day. By the time he was finished most of the fat was gone.

WOW, do you realise you just solved the obesity epidemic with your study? Nobel Prize coming your way! Bad example.

Your body would rather cannibalize itself rather than give up it's fat.

Because THIS is the problem society faces today... emaciated men, women and children walking around like Zombies, near dead because they aren't eating enough carbs. Not to mention the Keto movement... I mean, that's non-existent now, they're all dead!

Carbohydrates are loaded with vitamins, minerals and antioxidants which will only lead to deficiencies and various health problems if we neglect them. They are also our bodies preferred source of energy.

Err, no. Most carbs that people eat, especially for bodybuilding purposes, are to replenish glycogen, but despite that, there are ZERO vitamins, minerals or antioxidants in carbs that you can't get elsehwere in your diet. So they are anything but essential. You're right that carbs are the body's preferred source of energy, but it doesn't mean it can't also utilise fatty acids effectively. Some people cope better than others with this approach, and you may be very carb tolerant yourself, but just because it works for YOU, don't assume it's the answer to everyone's fat loss conundrum.

Personally, I would never advocate a zero carb approach, they definitely have their uses in my experience, but it is wildly inaccurate and misleading to say that everyone should be eating 40% of their calories from carbs every day.