How can I POSSIBLY put on fat with this diet?

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    How can I POSSIBLY put on fat with this diet?


    Hey guys, I'm a bit annoyed. I have what I consider to be a reasonably strict diet. After losing 65kg I've been terrified of putting on fat and have kept a reasonably low carb diet ever since. I'm now 81.5kg and apparently around 10-12% BF.

    I train 5 times a week, weights 4 times a week. I do a boxing/boxercise class twice a week. On weight training days I burn around 400cal and on 'cardio' days I probably burn about 800 (based on what my heart rate monitor says). My weight training uses the Ironman X-rep (partials) method on my last set, plus drop sets and super sets, so I keep my heart rate up.

    On my average day I eat 2000cal (50g fat, 250 protein, 135g carbs). Now to me that seems low, and yet, I've still put 3cm on my stomach since moving up from the 1200cal a day I lost all my weight on. I'm not as lean as I was before (mind you, I got down to 76kg and looked very gaunt in the face so I dont want to be THAT thin again).

    I guess what I'm saying is, how could I possibly put on fat when my 'maintanance level' should be over 2000cal? Even if I had an ultra slow metabolism, surely I'd still be using more than 2000cal (which I'm eating).


    Below is what an average days eating would look like for me. Bare in mind I'm also drinking around 2-3L of water a day.

    If you guys could help me out with this I would really appreciate it. I feel like I'm training my arse off and eating well and still putting on fat.

    Thanks.

    Sorry if the info below is hard to read.

    Sunday, 30th November 2008

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Daily Summary
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Food Energy In: 1999 cals
    Exercise Energy Out: 60 mins, -570 cals
    Net Energy: 1429 cals
    Net Energy Budget: 2000 cals
    End Result: 571 Calories Under
    Total Fat 48.7g / 54g Under
    Total Protein 254.8g / 250g Over
    Total Carb. 135g / 150g Under
    Total Sugar 57g
    Total Fibre 13.5g / 30g Under
    Total Sodium 2875mg / 3000mg Under




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Breakfast
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Item Calories Fat Protein Carb. Sugar Fibre Sodium
    2 egg, extra large (60g) of Eggs: Chicken Egg, whole, boiled or poached 170 11.9 15 0.8 0.8 0 353
    1/2 serving, 1/4 carton (237mL) of Golden Egg Farms: Eggs: The Cutting Edge, Egg Whites, frozen 58 0 12.1 0.6 0.6 - 180
    2 slice, thin (30g) of Bread: Wholemeal 141 1.8 6 25.2 0.9 3.6 297
    4 teaspoon (5g) of Weight Watchers: Margarines: Canola Spread 81 9.2 0.1 0.1 0.1 - 76
    1 1/2 tablespoon (20mL) of Fountain: Sauces: Squeezie, Tomato 35 0.2 0.3 8.1 7.8 - 255
    Total 486 23g 33.5g 34.8g 10.2g 3.6g 1161mg

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lunch
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Item Calories Fat Protein Carb. Sugar Fibre Sodium
    120 g of Chicken Baked: Breast Meat, no skin, no bones, baked 184 4.8 36 0 0 0 54
    2 tablespoon (20mL) of Fountain: Sauces: Squeezie, Sweet Chilli 82 0.2 0.2 19.6 16.8 - 452
    1 salad of McDonald's: Salads: Garden, no Dressing 21 0.2 1.6 2.1 1.5 - 18
    3/4 medium whole (150g) of Vegetables, fresh: Tomato, ripe, raw 20 0.2 1 4.4 3 1.4 6
    Total 307 5.4g 38.8g 26.2g 21.3g 1.4g 530mg

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dinner
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Item Calories Fat Protein Carb. Sugar Fibre Sodium
    300 g of Beef Steak: Rump, lean, raw 366 13.5 60 0 0 0 147
    150 g of Vegetables, cooked: Sweet Potato, Average All Types, flesh, peeled, boiled 116 0.2 2.1 26.6 8.6 3.8 41
    100 g of Vegetables, cooked: Broccoli, boiled, no salt 35 0.4 2.4 7.2 1.4 3.3 41
    1 1/2 serving, 1/4 cup (62.5mL) of Gravox: Gravy: Mix Box, Lite Supreme, prep. as directed 26 0.5 0.5 5.2 0.5 - 338
    Total 543 14.5g 65g 38.9g 10.4g 7.1g 566mg

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Snack
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Item Calories Fat Protein Carb. Sugar Fibre Sodium
    1 1/2 1 Scoop of Horleys Crossfire Protein 201 1.5 36.8 9.3 1.5 - 83
    200 mL of Milk, fresh: Cow, Low-Fat (1% fat) 96 2 8 12 12 0 108
    1 1/2 1 Scoop of Horleys Crossfire Protein 201 1.5 36.8 9.3 1.5 - 83
    1 1/2 1 Scoop of ON Casein Protein 165 0.8 36 4.5 0 1.5 345
    Total 663 5.8g 117.5g 35.1g 15g 1.5g 618mg

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Exercise
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Item Calories Fat Protein Carb. Sugar Fibre Sodium
    60 mins of Free Weights, vigorous -570 - - - - - -
    Total -570 - - - - - -

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    You sure it's not bloat/water retention?

    Do you have a cheat meal once a week? doesn't have to be junk, just increased cals so it'd be 2500 calories that day?

    When's the last time you took a week off?

    Try increasing your food intake to 2200 a day or more, but also increase your exercise (walking, swimming, low impact cardio...).....I'd do this after a week off if you haven't taken one recently.

    It's hard to tell, there could be factors that are affecting you that you're not mentioning because you don't know they would be affecting you....could be just some water retention.
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    I doubt it's water retention, and I couldn't tell you the last time I had a week off.
    I have low test. and I'm on Sus250 for it at the moment but my dose of 1ml/3weeks may go up because it's not sufficient I don't think.
    I do have a cheat meal once a week, it's not usually massive though, it's basically what I already eat PLUS a side of fries or something. Nothing that I think would really screw up a weeks dieting.
    I appreciate the reply
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBR View Post
    I doubt it's water retention, and I couldn't tell you the last time I had a week off.
    I have low test. and I'm on Sus250 for it at the moment but my dose of 1ml/3weeks may go up because it's not sufficient I don't think.
    I do have a cheat meal once a week, it's not usually massive though, it's basically what I already eat PLUS a side of fries or something. Nothing that I think would really screw up a weeks dieting.
    I appreciate the reply
    Well a cheat meal is beneficial once a week at a low bf% and less frequent at a higher bf%.

    Why not go for prime rib and mashed potatoes with some broccoli and gravy sauce?

    Being too strict for too long can have it's down falls.

    Take off this week from training, keep your meals the same, sleep good, relax and have that meal once that week.

    Then go back to training, increasing your low intensity cardio duration and frequency, 1 hour walk everyday.

    I'm cutting too, down to 8% bf and keeping it, what a pain in the f**king A$$.
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    Hahaha, I think you've pretty much summed it up man "What a pain in the f**cking A$$"
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    As someone that dropped 70 lbs of fat, I can give you this piece of information:

    When you are on a very low carb diet (or a low calorie diet that happens to have low carbs, due to the low calories) your body will hold much less water than it would in normal state.

    When you go back to a more reasonable amount of calories like you did, your body will put start holding a few more pounds of water. In fact, at first, your body will rebound a little and hold a little extra water for a few days after you start eating closer to maintenance levels... You will probably also notice that you hold a little more water, the more carbs and salt that you eat. You can vary your diet and see how it works... Note that there is a little bit of delay for your body to react, and there is also a bit of rebound when you stop adjusting your diet.

    Its normal and I would get used to it. Its not going to get any worse if you continue to eat below your maintenance. Since you were heavy before, you will probably hold a little water in the mid section where plenty of the fat was before.
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    Have you considered calorie cycling?
    Have you considered doing a low carb ketogenic style diet?
    Have you considered that you aren't eating enough?

    When you figure numbers of intake in simple terms you can get results that speak otherwise. To put it simply, if you are eating 2000 calories, doing 500 calories worth of work in the gym, you do not have a net of 1500. Your net for that day would be lower because of the oxygen debt the body goes into and the need to return the body to homeostasis. Your end net intake consists of

    Caloric intake:2000
    Exercise:~500-600
    EPOC: A percent raise addition to your BMR ever hour that slowly diminishes until baseline is met.

    Your total net intake might be somewhere around 1400, 1300, maybe 1200. You might need to up the calories somewhat or cycle the calories through the week.
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    I have pics in the picture forum of a 2 month cut where I dropped a lot of weight around 1300-1400 calories a day. simila rto you.

    I bulked back up, eating VERY VERY clean. even my bulk diet would make average people want to kill themselves, but it looked very similar to your diet. back up to 125-150 gram carbs (up from 60-90) and protein about the same, very high.

    in 2-3 days I lost 10% of the detail I had. I could see it instantly, a bit less vascularity, abs were not as prominent. some may be fat, but I think most is WATER.

    why? low carb diets are NATURAL diuerteics. so once you carb back up, even if it's 125 grams. it will cause water retention. and no, it never went away. so I have come to terms with the fact htat my best condition is not a permanent condition.

    so yea, take a lot of pics while you can.
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    Maybe you just made a good point man. Perhaps 'my best' just isnt 'every day'. But then agian, you see these models and pro bb's that manage to keep cracking abs constantly, so why cant I?
    I'm thinking of trying the CKD this week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinchharmonic View Post
    I have pics in the picture forum of a 2 month cut where I dropped a lot of weight around 1300-1400 calories a day. simila rto you.

    I bulked back up, eating VERY VERY clean. even my bulk diet would make average people want to kill themselves, but it looked very similar to your diet. back up to 125-150 gram carbs (up from 60-90) and protein about the same, very high.

    in 2-3 days I lost 10% of the detail I had. I could see it instantly, a bit less vascularity, abs were not as prominent. some may be fat, but I think most is WATER.

    why? low carb diets are NATURAL diuerteics. so once you carb back up, even if it's 125 grams. it will cause water retention. and no, it never went away. so I have come to terms with the fact htat my best condition is not a permanent condition.

    so yea, take a lot of pics while you can.
    Agree. But I think the definition you hold when carbing up from a low calorie day depends on what you do before hand on a carb up. I run CKD, more specifically the AD diet and when I carb up I gain somewhere around 5 pounds back in water and I don't look bloated.
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    The issue of water retention is definately worth considering and I appreciate the replies. It doesn't, however, account of why my caloric needs would be so damn low, and why I'm not LOSING weight given I'm under what SHOULD be maintanance? I know if I go back down to 1200cal/day I'll lose weight, but then I lose muscle too!
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    what about taking up swimming for a change? I use it for a good stretch after weights, but have used it when I was dropping off a lot of fat - especially going HIIT
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    You probably ARE losing weight on 2000 cals but it's REALLY slow. Slower than what you are used to. There is also the possibility that something you're eating has more calories than you think.
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    there is a good chance ur carrying around some water weight man.. my stomach routinely expands prob up to about 3 inches daily depending on sodium intake/water under my skin, etc.. also sus 250 is notorius for putting on water weight due to the different ester release time.. since the esters are all different unless ur injecting eod or even if you are you are prob getting some bloat from the estrogen .. also omnadren is notorius for giving bloat
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    cant post where this is from since its a source.. but here is some useful info.. focus on the second paragraph


    Omnadren 250 is an oil-based injectable containing a blend of four different testosterone esters: Testosterone propionate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate and caproate. Being as it is a four-ester testosterone, Omnadren is most commonly compared to Sustanon. While it does contain Testosterone propionate, testosterone phenylpropionate and isocaproate in the same strength as Sustanon, the last ester is different. Please note however, that the older versions of Omnadren list isohexanoate and hexanoate as the final two ingredients. Hexanoate is simply another word for caproate, so the last ester (decanoate) is the only Sustanon constituent missing from Omnadren.
    One of the only noticeable differences between Sustanon and Omnadren seems to be the speed in which estrogen buildup occurs. In comparison, the process appears to be slightly more pronounced with Omnadren. This is of course just a matter of timing, as the slowest releasing ester in Omnadren (caproate) is a little faster acting than enanthate. Blood testosterone levels will therefore peak much faster with this compound, not having the same gradual release time imposed by testosterone decanoate. Users likewise report water retention much earlier into a cycle. While water retention may lead to a more rapid buildup of size and strength, it can become pronounced enough to cause a very smooth and watery look to develop (hiding muscle definition). In addition, the excess estrogen is likely to cause the development of gynecomastia. This effect is especially pronounced with Omnadren, usually presenting itself quickly after a cycle has been started. Estrogen can also be responsible for increases in body fat storage during treatment, resulting in a further loss of definition. Individuals who are sensitive to the effects of estrogen, yet still seek the power of a testosterone, would therefore need to add an anti-estrogen such as Nolvadex and/or Proviron. Arimidex,Femara, or Aromasin, 3 powerful anti-aromatase, are another option available to us. These three drug works much more efficiently than any other anti-estrogen. They would have great use with such a strong item as Omnadren, as the standard remedies would not be quite as effective.
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    Thanks for the info, even though I don't like what it says! I'm going to tell my Endocrynologist to either up my dose or take me off this crap.
    I feel worse than I did on testogel and I've noticed less muscle definition etc. I'm not taking this stuff for muscle gain, I'm taking it to put me back to 'normal', but I certainly don't want to suffer because of it.
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    TheAnimal ... Didn't mean to ignore you man, just wanted to add that I'm definately NOT losing weight. I've put 3cm on my gut
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigzach1234 View Post
    there is a good chance ur carrying around some water weight man.. my stomach routinely expands prob up to about 3 inches daily depending on sodium intake/water under my skin, etc.. also sus 250 is notorius for putting on water weight due to the different ester release time.. since the esters are all different unless ur injecting eod or even if you are you are prob getting some bloat from the estrogen .. also omnadren is notorius for giving bloat
    Good points about the Sustanon and the sodium intake.

    Your body will enivatbly adjust to whatever you're doing. When I ate at maintenence level and did 1 hour of weights and 45 minutes of HIT cardio every weekday, I was getting fat and bloated. Anytime I'd eat something outside of my 'healthy prepped food', I'd notice it. Your fear of getting fat will only make you fat.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    You're probably right, but at this point it's a psychological thing. I was so freaking miserable being fat and I don't want to get back there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBR View Post
    You're probably right, but at this point it's a psychological thing. I was so freaking miserable being fat and I don't want to get back there.
    Fear = fight or flight = elevated cortisol = fat

    Don't fear getting fat. Thoughts manifest reality. Trust me, this is something that supplements won't fix
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Again, you're a wise man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBR View Post
    Again, you're a wise man.
    You'll do good my friend. Just keep at it.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    i would consider reducing the sugar and maybe getting the starchy carbs out of the diet. more whole grains, oatmeal, etc. in place of breat, pasta, potatoes, and rice.
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    Anony ... Yeah that's always a good idea man, you're right. I don't usually eat starchy carbs though.
    This week I dropped my carbs significantly (only 40g/day) and I lost 1.4kg.
    I tested for ketones and I was negative, so I'm going to go down further and see if I can get a reading.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBR View Post
    Anony ... Yeah that's always a good idea man, you're right. I don't usually eat starchy carbs though.
    This week I dropped my carbs significantly (only 40g/day) and I lost 1.4kg.
    I tested for ketones and I was negative, so I'm going to go down further and see if I can get a reading.
    Glycogen loss.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Sorry, I dont get how glycogen loss can make me lose weight? Pardon my ignorance. Can you explain?
  

  
 

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