Low GI food intake for Bulking?
- 10-14-2008, 12:01 PM
Low GI food intake for Bulking?
Hello again everyone,
Currently doing some research to put the best Bulk diet together I can. In the past I have always done a 40/40/20 split. Normally I did a more or less dirty bulk and while I managed to gain muscle very well it also increased fat beyond what I like. Ok enough background...
I was looking for the Glycemic Index sticky posted here and it made me wonder when trying to lean bulk how many Low GI carbs do people consume as part of their overall diet?
I would assume that eating lower GI food would promote less fat gain and more solid mass build?
I have also heard that eating carbs/Protein would be worse then eating fat/protein as far as blood sugar levels went?
Also any information as to lowering the GI of foods or the effect that some of food together can cause would be great!
- 10-14-2008, 02:00 PM
try not to worry to much about all that stuff on a bulk. a cal is a cal is a cal. if you eat more cals than you need you will put on weight and if your lifting hard and heavy your gonna put on muscle. now try and eat lots of protein and eating fiber with carbs helps slow down digestion rate and lowers blood sugar. Just eat and grow!
- 10-14-2008, 02:42 PM
Beleive me I know the eat and grow idea haha.
Honestly though depending on your goals a kcal is not just a kcal. Prime example is if I sit here and eat candy all day is that kcals SURE will I put on nice lean bulk muscle chances are no...
My questions are more leaning towards the refineing of diet. I will be using GVT during my next bulk to break through some old limit and bulk up for the winter.
I would much rather plan out a good lean bulk put on 10 solid pounds with very little fat.
Just want more info on the effects of Low GI foods in mass building.
10-14-2008, 02:49 PM
Lower GL foods can help in weight management, but you have to keep in mind if you eat alot of carbs, regardless of the GL or GI you'll have calorie run over into fat.
As far as the carb with protein vs carbs with fat thing goes, protein can increase blood sugar levels, somewhere up to 52 percent of it can show up as blood sugar. Fat on the other hand has a much smaller percent of it that can raise blood sugar, somewhere in the low single digits, and it also slows down digestion rates.
check nutritiondata.com to check out glycemic stuff for food. Notice as the amount of carbs increase the GL increases.
10-14-2008, 03:39 PM
glycemic load is more important then glycemic index. take malto dextrin for example, it hasa low GI, but high insulin responce, same with waxy maize
10-14-2008, 04:00 PM
Thanks for that info it does support what I have been reading.
It would seem that if you consume Low GI food throughout the day it would help to keep a constant level of blod sugar and hopefully in that way not cuase your body to store as much fat. Clearly in a calories excess there is going to be some overflow but with exercise I think it will be kept to a min.
Truely I am just looking for a clearer picture because as I said in the past I have managed to bulk very well but never liked the amount of fat I gained. While not major I felt it was more then I would like.
I would think that fat with protein intake would allow slower digestion of it throughout the day where as protein with carbs esp. higher GI carbs would allow for fast uptake and use of protein for recovery or energy pre/post workout.
10-14-2008, 06:30 PM
What does your bulking scheme look like? How many pounds a week? How many weeks straight? Whats your macro breakdown while bulking?
10-14-2008, 06:34 PM
Low GI is the way to go. I generally have between 100 and 200 per day, mostly depends on what day it is, and if I'm training or not.
Veggies (non-starchy), Ezekial Bread, etc... are the frickin way to go.
10-14-2008, 06:48 PM
Well for this one I will be starting out slowly nomrally packing on 1-1.5 lb a week. I nomrally shoot for a weight goal so that is how long I bulk for clearly it varies. I will also stop if I feel that I am putting on too much fat (one reason I made this thread)
As I said before I like a 40/40/20 split which seems to work very well for me. Clearly the std. protein intake of 1-1.5g per lb. fat intake from as healthy of sources as possible.
The only thing I really had left to figure out was the carb intake. In the past I have just taken in carbs on whatever I wanted. I think it may of been part of the problem gaining too much fat.
This time around I want to try a low GL carb and along with GVT see how well I can lean bulk.
Any other favs. you like to eat? I was looking over the GI list on here and I do liek most of the lower GI foods on there but I can see a few places where I have gone wrong.
One thing I am interested in is the effect that taking in mixed foods can have IE taking a low GI food with XX food causes a high GL... type thing.
10-15-2008, 07:45 AM
So I was poking around and found a very good site.
It has a table of over 700 foods and lists both GI and GL per serving size.
You can see that even though something have a higher GI the overall GL can be very small I am tempted to post the whole chart for people but here is a small bit of it.
From Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load
Food Number and Item GI 2 Serve GL 3
glucose size per
=100 grams serve
Apple, NS(USA) 40 120 6
Banana, ripe (all yellow) (USA) 51 120 13
10-15-2008, 08:17 AM
and keep in mind that both GI + GL are measurements taken solo - that food by itself with nothing else ingested. if you stick towards lower GI + GL foods in general, and always are taking in the carbs with protein and/or fats, you should be fine.
There shouldn't be anything that makes a low GI food a high GL other than volume of it eaten. conversely there are things that can make a high GI food a lower GI effect by eating with it, a great example is whole grain bread. eating it solo gives a higher GI than eating it with natty PB.
10-15-2008, 09:01 AM
Great point easy! As I have seen here it is truely size that is important when ingested lower GL foods. In otherwords you can keep the GL lower simply by eating less of X food. You can also lower the GI of higher GI food as you said by adding in something that is slower to digest.
When I do start my bulk I will start at roughly 300g (keep in mind I am coming off CKD so I will slowly ramp this up) of carbs a day split with higher intakes at breakfast and pre workout followed by a higher GL after workout. The rest will be split between the other 5 or so meals throughout the day.
10-15-2008, 09:07 AM
Well overall this has been a pretty good topic I better understand what is going on in the body now. Will be intresting to see differance in gains sticking to a lower GL bulk diet.
10-15-2008, 04:39 PM
10-15-2008, 07:00 PM
10-15-2008, 07:32 PM
limiting carbs and favoring fat will keep your insulin levels steady.
i made sure i consumed some form of fat with every meal.
and i didn't shy away from saturated fats either.
just remember, the ultimate trick to a lean bulk is not taking your total calorie intake way above maintenance.
it's much slower but worth it imo. trading quantity for quality wins!
10-15-2008, 07:50 PM
10-15-2008, 08:09 PM
10-15-2008, 08:54 PM
10-15-2008, 08:56 PM
10-15-2008, 11:53 PM
This is the first time I will be going from CKD into a bulk. This whole week I have slowly been adding carbs back into my diet getting use to it again.
I have the hope that after coming off such a carb restricting diet with a good workouts and good carbs it will add some nice slabs of muscle on hehe.
10-16-2008, 12:05 AM
Thanks for the info Hank!
That is exactly what I was thinking and wanted some others here to voice their thoughts.
I was thinking that if I ate something with slightly higher GL then adding a bit of fat to it should bring it down enough to keep insulin steady or very close.
I agree about the lean bulk and I have all winter to do it but I have managed to lean out extremely well on CKD and shed all the fat I wanted to. I believe I look decent overall but of course want more mass but this time around some better lean mass vice just getting bigger.
Pretty much the exact idea I had come up with. Coming off this cut I am lower then normal but as I close the 200 lb mark this will pretty much be my exact split spread throughout the day.so 200 pound male
10-16-2008, 12:22 AM
yea pretty basic, all fats from olive oil (extra virgin) peanut butter, almonds, nut butter, peanut oil, Egg yolks, coconut milk (but dont replace the EFAs with it, add it to, maybe one meal)
this is what i try and do, i have my carbs a little lower, today im having 8 meals but my amount of meals greatly depends on when i wake up.
10-16-2008, 12:49 AM
Great advice there Crazy.
Generally I have 6+ meals a day starting at 5ish in the morning till roughly 7 at night and on weekends there is another meal in there hehe.
Good point on the EFA's in the morning the eggs cover it decently well but by noon I like to take a few caps and the same for dinner. IMO if you have to have fat in a meal they are the way to go along with what you already suggested makes for a good tasting healthy meal.
10-17-2008, 04:35 PM
GI has no effect on body composition.
at least not in a direct way, lower GI foods tend to be higher in fiber/nutrients, hence more sustaining, but a carb is a carb is a carb.
great article with a study. Sorry guys.
10-17-2008, 05:19 PM
longer term studies have shown following a GI approach to improve insulin sensitivity.
it takes years of poor eating habits and repeated insulin trashing to become a diabetic.
nutritionists recommend high fiber carbs, and pairing all carbs with either fat or protein to diabetics for a reason.
10-17-2008, 05:28 PM
I thought it was a good read too. It may be very true in the short term and for that matter what I was talking about used during bulking *however* even if it does not help overall body comp I think the OVERALL effect that the "heathier" foods and fuller meals have on the body would still lend itself to larger gains in terms of muscle building or recovery. I know a carb is a carb but all the other thing IE the BIG picture is what has to be looked at in this case.
Example would be eating candy and drinking protein shakes all day I would get carbs/fat/Protein and calories I needed but is that the grounds for a solid body and big gains I believe most would say NO way!
The same calories from whole foods with food sources of fat solid filling meals with carbs and fat/protein overall would leand to a better platform to build off of.
" Garbage in = garbage out. "
10-26-2008, 10:03 AM
i know this is kind of a late response..but why not an idea of keeping your carbs limited to certain meals. breakfast and pre/post workout on workout days..and only breakfast on OFF days.
and say NO to the insulin spikes by staying away from all these simple sugars. your body is more than smart enough to shuttle nutrients to it's cells without us forcing it to do so.
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