Introducing myself....

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Welcome to AM bud!
    Thanks man. Im liking it here so far.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com


  2. Hey Sean got another Q if you dont mind

    When do you start cutting sodium out?Im currently 4 weeks out this is my diet


    Veggies with each meal if i want,My coach also giving me carb/fat up when needed

    m1-40g whey protein blend
    m2-1 cup egg whites
    m3-8oz ground turkey
    m4-8oz ground turkey
    m5-50mg whey iso
    m6-8oz ground turkey

    Basically everything is low sodium expect im using alot of ketchup,When should i be cutting that out exactly
    •   
       


  3. Beeeeeeeeeaaaassssstttttt!

    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    OK, how about some full blown off season MASS-TASTIC pics. Here I am in all my white, unshaven glory. LOL! These pics were just taken. I was 173 lbs this morning. My morning depleted low was 161.5 lbs going into my last competition that was 14 weeks ago. I had let my weight rise pretty quickly post competition until I felt better hormonally and ive been holding here for about 6 weeks now. I am hoping to continue holding my weight here until Christmas and start cutting shortly afterward into the Tournament of Champions in April.









    BigGunn~"Just happy to be invited to the party!"
    Nutrigenomics Research Company [www.Cabergolean.com]

  4. Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    Hey Sean got another Q if you dont mind

    When do you start cutting sodium out?Im currently 4 weeks out this is my diet


    Veggies with each meal if i want,My coach also giving me carb/fat up when needed

    m1-40g whey protein blend
    m2-1 cup egg whites
    m3-8oz ground turkey
    m4-8oz ground turkey
    m5-50mg whey iso
    m6-8oz ground turkey

    Basically everything is low sodium expect im using alot of ketchup,When should i be cutting that out exactly
    I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.......did I mention unequivocally "never" cut my sodium out? Seriously, cutting sodium is a sure fire way to come in deflated and flat. People demonize sodium and avoid it like the plague on show day (along with water) and then wonder why they looked so much better LAST weekend when they were loading sodium in heaps and mounds. Sodium drives carbohydrates (and water) INTO the cells. Sure, an excessive spike of sodium can make you hold interstitially but we want water INSIDE our muscle cells or we look very flat. My peak week protocol keeps sodium at a constant level because its the "swinging" that can cause some interstitial holding. The body is VERY, VERY adaptive and studies show that no matter what your sodium intake is, blood sodium levels remain constant. This means the body does what it needs to remain at homeostasis in regard to sodium levels. Crank it up and the body will excrete it, drop it down and the body will hold it.

    Ive got two pics.....first pic was taken at a show after my failed experiment with sodium depletion and the second pic taken with sodium cranking at 6000 mgs per day for weeks leading up to the pic. Water intake was very high in both.

    Also, I dont want to step on anyone's toes, but unless you are using fatty ground turkey and loads of vegetables you are really low on fat and carbohydrates. This would be OK if your refeeds are pretty regular but be careful of dropping your calories that low for real long periods of time. It might net you a good amount of "weight" loss.....but as bb'ers we want "FAT" loss. Just my $.02 on the diet.....



    .

    Obviously, I am holding a ton of water in this second pic because of high sodium and water intake



    Oh, and heres a third picture of me on the floor of the chinese restaurant after I had cut all my sodium out and then rapidly reintroduced it via General Tsaos Chicken. Kind of funny looking back....but very dangerous......and in hindsight totally ineffective.

    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  5. Thanks Sean then I guess I can still enjoy my ketchup,and looking diced and fuller in that 2nd pic!

    Useing 99% fat free ground turkey and veggirs are low,my waist is shrinking and havent noticed any muscle loss,Ill prob start a log on here in a week or so
    •   
       


  6. LMAO!!!!

    Ohhhhhh Sean- I am so sorry but that last pic is hilarious! I am so tempted to put that up online buddy.

    And yeah if that second pic is you loaded up on H2O and sodium then count me in! Freaking ripped and huge in that pic!!!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.......did I mention unequivocally "never" cut my sodium out? Seriously, cutting sodium is a sure fire way to come in deflated and flat. People demonize sodium and avoid it like the plague on show day (along with water) and then wonder why they looked so much better LAST weekend when they were loading sodium in heaps and mounds. Sodium drives carbohydrates (and water) INTO the cells. Sure, an excessive spike of sodium can make you hold interstitially but we want water INSIDE our muscle cells or we look very flat. My peak week protocol keeps sodium at a constant level because its the "swinging" that can cause some interstitial holding. The body is VERY, VERY adaptive and studies show that no matter what your sodium intake is, blood sodium levels remain constant. This means the body does what it needs to remain at homeostasis in regard to sodium levels. Crank it up and the body will excrete it, drop it down and the body will hold it.

    Ive got two pics.....first pic was taken at a show after my failed experiment with sodium depletion and the second pic taken with sodium cranking at 6000 mgs per day for weeks leading up to the pic. Water intake was very high in both.

    Also, I dont want to step on anyone's toes, but unless you are using fatty ground turkey and loads of vegetables you are really low on fat and carbohydrates. This would be OK if your refeeds are pretty regular but be careful of dropping your calories that low for real long periods of time. It might net you a good amount of "weight" loss.....but as bb'ers we want "FAT" loss. Just my $.02 on the diet.....



    .

    Obviously, I am holding a ton of water in this second pic because of high sodium and water intake



    Oh, and heres a third picture of me on the floor of the chinese restaurant after I had cut all my sodium out and then rapidly reintroduced it via General Tsaos Chicken. Kind of funny looking back....but very dangerous......and in hindsight totally ineffective.

    BigGunn~"Just happy to be invited to the party!"
    Nutrigenomics Research Company [www.Cabergolean.com]

  7. Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    Thanks Sean then I guess I can still enjoy my ketchup,and looking diced and fuller in that 2nd pic!

    Useing 99% fat free ground turkey and veggirs are low,my waist is shrinking and havent noticed any muscle loss,Ill prob start a log on here in a week or so
    Eeeek. So you are basically just taking in protein all day long with very little fat and carbs. Are you on AAS or hormonal support?

    Yes, enjoy your ketchup......the sodium is fine.....but more so because its your only source of carbohydrates. Ketchup is very high in sugar.

    Heres the thing.....you can so short bursts of low fat/low carb but your metabolism takes a hit. Which is OK if its only for a couple weeks. But if you are doing a 20 week prep or whatever, you cant continue to run carb/fats that low. Carbs fuel cellular metabolism and without that glucose stoking the fire, your metabolism will slow to a creep after not too long. Fats help with hormonal balance and although not as stimulating to the metabolism as carbs, they are still very important to keep in your diet. Now, if you told me you were refeeding every third day with a healthy dose of calories from fat and carbs.....well thats one thing. But to run a diet like that for extended periods is going to make it very hard to truly get shredded......not to mention its not very healthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGunn View Post
    LMAO!!!!

    Ohhhhhh Sean- I am so sorry but that last pic is hilarious! I am so tempted to put that up online buddy.

    And yeah if that second pic is you loaded up on H2O and sodium then count me in! Freaking ripped and huge in that pic!!!!!
    It IS hilarious looking back on it now. But at the time, it was down right scary. And my wife was pretty embarassed of me laying on the floor.

    I was literally there on the floor for 20 minutes.....darn close to the paramedics coming. Every muscle was cramped and locked on so I couldnt move. I was sweating like crazy.....bad, bad, bad.

    Never cut sodium again!!
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  8. Low carbs don't crash metabolism, low calories do
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  9. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Eeeek. So you are basically just taking in protein all day long with very little fat and carbs. Are you on AAS or hormonal support?

    Yes, enjoy your ketchup......the sodium is fine.....but more so because its your only source of carbohydrates. Ketchup is very high in sugar.

    Heres the thing.....you can so short bursts of low fat/low carb but your metabolism takes a hit. Which is OK if its only for a couple weeks. But if you are doing a 20 week prep or whatever, you cant continue to run carb/fats that low. Carbs fuel cellular metabolism and without that glucose stoking the fire, your metabolism will slow to a creep after not too long. Fats help with hormonal balance and although not as stimulating to the metabolism as carbs, they are still very important to keep in your diet. Now, if you told me you were refeeding every third day with a healthy dose of calories from fat and carbs.....well thats one thing. But to run a diet like that for extended periods is going to make it very hard to truly get shredded......not to mention its not very healthy.
    yea just protein,basically i ended up getting sick and put on antibiotics which kept me out of the gym a few days a put a bunch of water on,So im kinda behind so my coach made some diet changes and supplement changes

    (Ignore ****ty posing lol)

    This is me last week
    MAH00032 - YouTube

    This is me yesterday
    MAH00035 - YouTube

    Coach says if i keep pushing i can get in decent conditioning,Im doing teen division at the npc eastern usa nov 12

    Thoughts?4 weeks left

  10. Hey buddy. The video looks great. As compared to about 4 weeks ago when you submitted a vid you look like you have lost a lot of bodyfat indeed. Your legs look great! Keep pushing hard! This is definitely one of the toughest sports to train for in the world! But I am sure the pay-off will be unimaginable when you are up on stage and all of that sacrifice and hard-work finally comes to fruition!


    Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    yea just protein,basically i ended up getting sick and put on antibiotics which kept me out of the gym a few days a put a bunch of water on,So im kinda behind so my coach made some diet changes and supplement changes

    (Ignore ****ty posing lol)

    This is me last week
    MAH00032 - YouTube

    This is me yesterday
    MAH00035 - YouTube

    Coach says if i keep pushing i can get in decent conditioning,Im doing teen division at the npc eastern usa nov 12

    Thoughts?4 weeks left
    BigGunn~"Just happy to be invited to the party!"
    Nutrigenomics Research Company [www.Cabergolean.com]

  11. Quote Originally Posted by BigGunn View Post
    Hey buddy. The video looks great. As compared to about 4 weeks ago when you submitted a vid you look like you have lost a lot of bodyfat indeed. Your legs look great! Keep pushing hard! This is definitely one of the toughest sports to train for in the world! But I am sure the pay-off will be unimaginable when you are up on stage and all of that sacrifice and hard-work finally comes to fruition!
    Thanks!Cant wait to step on stage,im about 193 now so Coach is figuring my stage weight will be around 180.Im busting my ass so im hoping to make a nice placing!

  12. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Low carbs don't crash metabolism, low calories do
    I agree that calories are the biggest factor. However, I will state that carbohydrates are more stimulating to the metabolism and this is the main reason why I prefer a high carb/lowish fat diet. In other words, given the same activity level, I have found I can eat more calories if the ratio favors carbohydrates. This is my personal experience and have found this to be very common amongst athletes.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    Thoughts?4 weeks left
    Im gonna take a look when I get home tonite and ill give you my thoughts. With 4 weeks left....if you are behind, this diet might be your best option next to picking another show (which is why your coach has you dieting this way). But let me take a look a bit later and we'll talk.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  13. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    I agree that calories are the biggest factor. However, I will state that carbohydrates are more stimulating to the metabolism and this is the main reason why I prefer a high carb/lowish fat diet. In other words, given the same activity level, I have found I can eat more calories if the ratio favors carbohydrates. This is my personal experience and have found this to be very common amongst athletes.



    Im gonna take a look when I get home tonite and ill give you my thoughts. With 4 weeks left....if you are behind, this diet might be your best option next to picking another show (which is why your coach has you dieting this way). But let me take a look a bit later and we'll talk.
    Ok sounds great,basically deadset on doing this one so hoping ill be ready

  14. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    I agree that calories are the biggest factor.
    Calories are the only factor. If you take in significantly less energy than you expend over a prolonged amount of time your body will adjust it's metabolism. Carbs have nothing to do with it.

    It is fine if you prefer a high carb diet but saying a low carb diet will crash someones metabolism is just false information. An individual can be on a low carb/high protein/high fat diet and their metabolism will be fine.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  15. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Calories are the only factor. If you take in significantly less energy than you expend over a prolonged amount of time your body will adjust it's metabolism. Carbs have nothing to do with it.

    It is fine if you prefer a high carb diet but saying a low carb diet will crash someones metabolism is just false information. An individual can be on a low carb/high protein/high fat diet and their metabolism will be fine.
    Well, I think we will probably wind up agreeing to disagree on this one. There is substantial evidence out there to support the claim that low carb diets decrease thyroid function and slow metabolic rate. There are also studies out there that show people can function in ketosis for extended periods of time without metabolic trauma. The studies go both ways on it, but I suspect it has something to do with variables in the different studies done over the years.....perhaps athletes vs. sedentary people? I dont know. I do know what I have gained from experience in this sport and I like to think I have a pretty good grasp on my diet. So we COULD go back and forth tit for tat beating our e-chests and showing the world how smart we are.....or we could just agree to disagree.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  16. Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    Thoughts?4 weeks left
    Ok. I took a look at your vids and I am assuming you want my honest critique and my best advice so I will try to be fair an objective without sugar coating, etc. I did notice you have leaned out a bit....which is great. But I also noticed you have a ways to go before you are "stage-ready".

    The question you have to ask yourself is this.....what is your goal with this show? If your goal for your first show is to get out there and gain some experience and learn what it is like to stand on stage and go thru the poses, etc......then I would say keep cutting as you are and go for it. Go out and gain some experience. However, if your goal is to place well and be competitive, my suggestion is to take a break from the extremely low cal diet and rehabilitate your metabolism between now and the holidays. SLOWLY increase your calorie intake (by weighing, tracking and measuring everything you eat) and work on increasing your metabolic rate for two months. But do so in a controlled manner so that you do not put on additional bodyfat. After the holidays, resume your cut-diet but keep your carbohydrates and fats at a healthy level so that the fat comes off slow and steady. You should have GOOD energy in the gym and the fat should come off at about 1 lb per week. Start cutting in january and diet until your lower abs are razor sharp and you can see nice glute, ham and quad separation. The guys that place well have striations in their glutes, hams and quads......thats how lean you need to be to be competitive. In reality you have at least 15 lbs to move before the detail in your low back, abs, hams and glutes comes out. I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but it is an honest assessment of where you are at. You can make improvements in 4 weeks and probably lean out substantially but at what expense? Are you willing to sacrifice a pound or two of muscle in the next 4 weeks to move 6 lbs of fat? Gotta do a little self-eval and decide how you want to play the game. Either way, I can respect your decision. Whatever you do....dont ever give up. Whether you compete now or 6 months from now....give it all you got and be the best you can be on that day.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  17. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Well, I think we will probably wind up agreeing to disagree on this one. There is substantial evidence out there to support the claim that low carb diets decrease thyroid function and slow metabolic rate. There are also studies out there that show people can function in ketosis for extended periods of time without metabolic trauma. The studies go both ways on it, but I suspect it has something to do with variables in the different studies done over the years.....perhaps athletes vs. sedentary people? I dont know. I do know what I have gained from experience in this sport and I like to think I have a pretty good grasp on my diet. So we COULD go back and forth tit for tat beating our e-chests and showing the world how smart we are.....or we could just agree to disagree.

    That was not my intention. I am not the type that is looking for a pissing contest or to go back and forth to "prove" something. I have learned a long time ago that arguing on the internet is almost always futile and a waste of time. I was only clarifying mis-information that was being stated.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  18. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Ok. I took a look at your vids and I am assuming you want my honest critique and my best advice so I will try to be fair an objective without sugar coating, etc. I did notice you have leaned out a bit....which is great. But I also noticed you have a ways to go before you are "stage-ready".

    The question you have to ask yourself is this.....what is your goal with this show? If your goal for your first show is to get out there and gain some experience and learn what it is like to stand on stage and go thru the poses, etc......then I would say keep cutting as you are and go for it. Go out and gain some experience. However, if your goal is to place well and be competitive, my suggestion is to take a break from the extremely low cal diet and rehabilitate your metabolism between now and the holidays. SLOWLY increase your calorie intake (by weighing, tracking and measuring everything you eat) and work on increasing your metabolic rate for two months. But do so in a controlled manner so that you do not put on additional bodyfat. After the holidays, resume your cut-diet but keep your carbohydrates and fats at a healthy level so that the fat comes off slow and steady. You should have GOOD energy in the gym and the fat should come off at about 1 lb per week. Start cutting in january and diet until your lower abs are razor sharp and you can see nice glute, ham and quad separation. The guys that place well have striations in their glutes, hams and quads......thats how lean you need to be to be competitive. In reality you have at least 15 lbs to move before the detail in your low back, abs, hams and glutes comes out. I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but it is an honest assessment of where you are at. You can make improvements in 4 weeks and probably lean out substantially but at what expense? Are you willing to sacrifice a pound or two of muscle in the next 4 weeks to move 6 lbs of fat? Gotta do a little self-eval and decide how you want to play the game. Either way, I can respect your decision. Whatever you do....dont ever give up. Whether you compete now or 6 months from now....give it all you got and be the best you can be on that day.
    I appreciate the response Sean,Im gonna stick with the plan and keep cutting,I feel that i came to far not todo the competition.Idk if i can get 15 pounds but i def think 10 more pounds of fat can come off.My diet is as posted and im doing fasted morning cardio 7 days a week lifting 6,I will keep you guys updated though

  19. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    That was not my intention. I am not the type that is looking for a pissing contest or to go back and forth to "prove" something. I have learned a long time ago that arguing on the internet is almost always futile and a waste of time. I was only clarifying mis-information that was being stated.
    Thats a great attitude to have about internet debate. Yea, its fun, but often times (especially on subjects like these, its been beaten to death) it can go around in circles forever...And thank you for the shot at the end about the "misinformation". I can at least agree that it is debateable. To deny that there is even a debate over the issue is rather naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    I appreciate the response Sean,Im gonna stick with the plan and keep cutting,I feel that i came to far not todo the competition.Idk if i can get 15 pounds but i def think 10 more pounds of fat can come off.My diet is as posted and im doing fasted morning cardio 7 days a week lifting 6,I will keep you guys updated though
    I totally understand your position. Just keep in mind....there is ALWAYS another competition. You would have to prob wait until March or April but the realistic point of view is that you need that much time to come in properly. Most people severely underestimate the amount of bodyfat they carry their first time out so stepping back from the situation and putting off competition is nothing to be ashamed of. Not that i am trying to push you in one direction or another. Just some food for thought. If you do the comp in 4 weeks, keep dieting hard as you are and lose as much weight as possible. Remember to soak it all in and keep good notes. The object is to improve every time you go out. SO GET ER DONE!!
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  20. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    I can at least agree that it is debateable. To deny that there is even a debate over the issue is rather naive.
    Everything is debatable but what it ultimately boils down to, in regards to giving out advice or stating things as "facts", is if something has been clinically demonstrated to be true or not. To my knowledge there is absolutely no evidence that supports the theory of a isocaloric diet comprised of low-carb/high protein/high fat being "metabolism crushing". It is fine if YOU prefer a higher carb diet and it is fine to recommend things based of your personal experience but when you make statements as "fact" or "truth" that have zero evidence supporting it, then I usually chime in. Ultimately if high carb works for you than awesome! Enjoy it and eat up and tell the world about how awesome your high carb diet is but don't paint a picture of a low carb diet being devastating or demonizing it as something it isn't.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  21. Well, no....not everything is debateable. I mean, you COULD debate anything, but you would look like a royal freaking idiot trying to convince me that the world is flat, right? Well, this isnt one of those debates. There is very strong evidence logged for the metabolic effects of low carb/ketogenic driven diets. And the evidence varies.....probably depending on individuals and their tolerance to carbohydrates. To deny this debate is good debate with valid points on either side is insane. And I never presented anything as "FACT". Everything I suggest to people is my OPINION based on years of experience and the fact that I have done pretty well at this sport. You dont accidentally become a pro bodybuilder....and I hate to bring this point up, but you seem to suggest that my personal experience has no validity. When I have personally witnessed people go from a slow or very slow metabolism on keto of CKD and reintroduce carbs and completely change the way they perform and function as a bodybuilder.....thats worth something. If its not worth anything to you....ok. But please dont come on here and tell me I pushing bull **** to people who seek advice on my thread.

    The real bull **** is to say there is "zero evidence supporting my point of view". All you have to do is look a bit further than some of the anti-carb literature you have been reading.

    Volek JS, et al. Body composition and hormonal responses to a carbohydrate-restricted diet. Metabolism. 2002 Jul; 51 (7): 864-870.

    Ullrich IH, et al. Effect of low-carbohydrate diets high in either fat or protein on thyroid function, plasma insulin, glucose, and triglycerides in healthy young adults. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 1985; 4 (4): 451-459.


    Davidson MB, Chopra IJ. Effect of carbohydrate and noncarbohydrate sources of calories on plasma 3,5,3′-triiodothyronine concentrations in man. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Apr, 1979; 48 (4): 577–581.


    Mathieson RA, et al. The effect of varying carbohydrate content of a very-low-caloric diet on resting metabolic rate and thyroid hormones. Metabolism, May, 1986; 35 (5): 394-398.

    Fery F, et al. Hormonal and metabolic changes induced by an isocaloric isoproteinic ketogenic diet in healthy subjects. Diabetes & Metabolism, Dec 1982; 8 (4): 299-305.

    Danforth E Jr, et al. Dietary-induced Alterations in Thyroid Hormone Metabolism during Overnutrition. Journal of Clinical Investigation, 1979; 64 (5): 1336–1347.

    Saris WHM, et al. Study on food intake and energy expenditure during extreme sustained exercise: The Tour de France. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 1989; 10 (Suppl 1): S26-S31. http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?f****1571
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  22. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Well, no....not everything is debateable. I mean, you COULD debate anything, but you would look like a royal freaking idiot trying to convince me that the world is flat, right? Well, this isnt one of those debates. There is very strong evidence logged for the metabolic effects of low carb/ketogenic driven diets. And the evidence varies.....probably depending on individuals and their tolerance to carbohydrates. To deny this debate is good debate with valid points on either side is insane. And I never presented anything as "FACT". Everything I suggest to people is my OPINION based on years of experience and the fact that I have done pretty well at this sport. You dont accidentally become a pro bodybuilder....and I hate to bring this point up, but you seem to suggest that my personal experience has no validity. When I have personally witnessed people go from a slow or very slow metabolism on keto of CKD and reintroduce carbs and completely change the way they perform and function as a bodybuilder.....thats worth something. If its not worth anything to you....ok. But please dont come on here and tell me I pushing bull **** to people who seek advice on my thread.

    The real bull **** is to say there is "zero evidence supporting my point of view". All you have to do is look a bit further than some of the anti-carb literature you have been reading.
    I will refrain from addressing or responding to the comments made in this post as the tone of it comes off rather argumentative and defensive than it does someone looking for a discussion or trying to debate.

    Like I said I am not looking for a pissing contest with you, only correcting a statement you made which was false (that a low carb diet will crush someones metabolism). Instead let me address your "studies" you are trying to cite here as evidence or proof.

    [I]Volek JS, et al. Body composition and hormonal responses to a carbohydrate-restricted diet. Metabolism. 2002 Jul; 51 (7): 864-870.
    This study actually proves my point and the states the opposite of what you are attempting to prove.. i.e that low carb diets are superior for fat loss and LBM and also increase thyroid output. It is actually laughable that you would cite something from Jeff Volek as he is a huge proponent of a low carb diet.


    Ullrich IH, et al. Effect of low-carbohydrate diets high in either fat or protein on thyroid function, plasma insulin, glucose, and triglycerides in healthy young adults. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 1985; 4 (4): 451-459.
    Now this one showed a reduction in T3 levels but even the authors state "The significance of the lower T3 level is unknown." which is most likely due to the levels of other thyroid hormones which went up.

    Davidson MB, Chopra IJ. Effect of carbohydrate and noncarbohydrate sources of calories on plasma 3,5,3 prime-triiodothyronine concentrations in man. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Apr, 1979; 48 (4): 577–581.
    This one have isnt available in PubMed and is also 30 years old. Even IF it demonstrated any change in metabolism the results would be questionable considering it's date and the amount of more recent research which shows the opposite.


    Mathieson RA, et al. The effect of varying carbohydrate content of a very-low-caloric diet on resting metabolic rate and thyroid hormones. Metabolism, May, 1986; 35 (5): 394-398.
    Again this one also shows the opposite of your claim. The subjects on a low carb diet had a 12% reduction in Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) and those on a high carb diet had a 20% reduction. Furthermore, those on a VLCD (very low carb diet) had no reduction at all until three weeks into the experiment. Low carb subjects also lost more weight overall.


    Fery F, et al. Hormonal and metabolic changes induced by an isocaloric isoproteinic ketogenic diet in healthy subjects. Diabetes & Metabolism, Dec 1982; 8 (4): 299-305.
    Here they demonstrated a decrease in one thyroid hormone and an increase in another and recorded no impact on Resting Metabolic Rate.


    Danforth E Jr, et al. Dietary-induced Alterations in Thyroid Hormone Metabolism during Overnutrition. Journal of Clinical Investigation, 1979; 64 (5): 1336–1347.
    This was an overfeeding study without a low carb arm so says nothing about the impact of low carb diets on metabolism.

    Overall you don't appear to really understand what these studies are showing because it is certainly not that a low carb will "crush" your metabolism.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  23. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    IOverall you don't appear to really understand what these studies are showing because it is certainly not that a low carb will "crush" your metabolism.
    To be perfectly honest I did not go in and read each of these studies, but my point was merely to show that there is banter on both sides of the debate. And I dont remember stating that low carb diets crush anyones metabolism. I stated that it is metabolically advantageous for most athletes to consume a higher ratio of carbs over fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    This was an overfeeding study without a low carb arm so says nothing about the impact of low carb diets on metabolism..
    Actually the study was in regard to overfeeding and it backs up my experience quite well. Like I said before I have found that I can consume more calories (without detriment to body comp) when my diet is high carb as opposed to high fat. The showed that a group of overfed men rquired more calories to maintain their body weight with a mixed diet over the group that was overfed fat.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    This one have isnt available in PubMed and is also 30 years old. Even IF it demonstrated any change in metabolism the results would be questionable considering it's date and the amount of more recent research which shows the opposite..
    A little cut and paste summary from the interwebz on the study:

    In a study by UCLA researchers, six normal weight subjects followed 5 different diets for 5 days each. Three of the diets provided 2100 calories and 104, 202 and 409 grams of carbohydrate daily. Compared to the high-carbohydrate diet, the low carbohydrate diet caused a significant drop in T3 levels. The mean T3 results were 69, 86, and 91 ng/dl on the low-, medium-, and high-carbohydrate diets, respectively. The remaining two diets were hypercaloric, providing 4100 calories daily and 206 and 407 grams of carbohydrate daily. On both diets, the mean T3 level on both the 206- and 407-gram diets was 108 ng/dl. In this study, increasing carbohydrate intake over a range of 104-409 grams daily at eucaloric levels resulted in greater T3 levels, while on the high-calorie diet T3 concentrations were similarly increased with carbohydrate intakes of 206 and 407 grams per day[Davidson MB].

    So again.....I reiterate. This is debateable. If you want to continue eating a high fat diet while trying to bodybuild.....by all means. Experience is a great teacher and I have learned the opposite to be advantageous. Thats all. I dont need to prove that point. There is a reason why most of the top contest prep consultants lean their clients toward high carb diets. Dr. Joe Klemczewski is a big high carb proponent. Does he diet everyone on high carbs? No. But the majority of his clients yes. Same with Layne Norton, Tommy Jeffers, 3DMJ, etc, etc. There is a reason for it. Heck, even Branch Warren .....one of the biggest factors attributed to his recent success was switching to high carb diet when Farah took the reigns. Again, this is all anectdotal. But valuable information none-the-less.

    I have to run......im gonna be gone for the weekend so you can call me names and poop on my thread for two full days before I can reply.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  24. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post

    I have to run......im gonna be gone for the weekend so you can call me names and poop on my thread for two full days before I can reply.
    No need for that, the point was made.

    Enjoy your weekend!
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  25. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    No need for that, the point was made.

    Enjoy your weekend!

    Thanks man. Yea, the weekend was great. I took my son on a little father/son overnight with his "Treeclimbers" (Cub Scout) group. It was a manly adventure complete with BB gun shooting, potato gun firing, archery, dodge ball, etc. Would have been better if it didnt rain all weekend but...you cant everything.

    Been chipping away at "The Omnivores Dilemma". When I finish we will have some good discussion.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com
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