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Introducing myself....

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    Thoughts?4 weeks left
    Ok. I took a look at your vids and I am assuming you want my honest critique and my best advice so I will try to be fair an objective without sugar coating, etc. I did notice you have leaned out a bit....which is great. But I also noticed you have a ways to go before you are "stage-ready".

    The question you have to ask yourself is this.....what is your goal with this show? If your goal for your first show is to get out there and gain some experience and learn what it is like to stand on stage and go thru the poses, etc......then I would say keep cutting as you are and go for it. Go out and gain some experience. However, if your goal is to place well and be competitive, my suggestion is to take a break from the extremely low cal diet and rehabilitate your metabolism between now and the holidays. SLOWLY increase your calorie intake (by weighing, tracking and measuring everything you eat) and work on increasing your metabolic rate for two months. But do so in a controlled manner so that you do not put on additional bodyfat. After the holidays, resume your cut-diet but keep your carbohydrates and fats at a healthy level so that the fat comes off slow and steady. You should have GOOD energy in the gym and the fat should come off at about 1 lb per week. Start cutting in january and diet until your lower abs are razor sharp and you can see nice glute, ham and quad separation. The guys that place well have striations in their glutes, hams and quads......thats how lean you need to be to be competitive. In reality you have at least 15 lbs to move before the detail in your low back, abs, hams and glutes comes out. I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but it is an honest assessment of where you are at. You can make improvements in 4 weeks and probably lean out substantially but at what expense? Are you willing to sacrifice a pound or two of muscle in the next 4 weeks to move 6 lbs of fat? Gotta do a little self-eval and decide how you want to play the game. Either way, I can respect your decision. Whatever you do....dont ever give up. Whether you compete now or 6 months from now....give it all you got and be the best you can be on that day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Well, I think we will probably wind up agreeing to disagree on this one. There is substantial evidence out there to support the claim that low carb diets decrease thyroid function and slow metabolic rate. There are also studies out there that show people can function in ketosis for extended periods of time without metabolic trauma. The studies go both ways on it, but I suspect it has something to do with variables in the different studies done over the years.....perhaps athletes vs. sedentary people? I dont know. I do know what I have gained from experience in this sport and I like to think I have a pretty good grasp on my diet. So we COULD go back and forth tit for tat beating our e-chests and showing the world how smart we are.....or we could just agree to disagree.

    That was not my intention. I am not the type that is looking for a pissing contest or to go back and forth to "prove" something. I have learned a long time ago that arguing on the internet is almost always futile and a waste of time. I was only clarifying mis-information that was being stated.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Ok. I took a look at your vids and I am assuming you want my honest critique and my best advice so I will try to be fair an objective without sugar coating, etc. I did notice you have leaned out a bit....which is great. But I also noticed you have a ways to go before you are "stage-ready".

    The question you have to ask yourself is this.....what is your goal with this show? If your goal for your first show is to get out there and gain some experience and learn what it is like to stand on stage and go thru the poses, etc......then I would say keep cutting as you are and go for it. Go out and gain some experience. However, if your goal is to place well and be competitive, my suggestion is to take a break from the extremely low cal diet and rehabilitate your metabolism between now and the holidays. SLOWLY increase your calorie intake (by weighing, tracking and measuring everything you eat) and work on increasing your metabolic rate for two months. But do so in a controlled manner so that you do not put on additional bodyfat. After the holidays, resume your cut-diet but keep your carbohydrates and fats at a healthy level so that the fat comes off slow and steady. You should have GOOD energy in the gym and the fat should come off at about 1 lb per week. Start cutting in january and diet until your lower abs are razor sharp and you can see nice glute, ham and quad separation. The guys that place well have striations in their glutes, hams and quads......thats how lean you need to be to be competitive. In reality you have at least 15 lbs to move before the detail in your low back, abs, hams and glutes comes out. I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but it is an honest assessment of where you are at. You can make improvements in 4 weeks and probably lean out substantially but at what expense? Are you willing to sacrifice a pound or two of muscle in the next 4 weeks to move 6 lbs of fat? Gotta do a little self-eval and decide how you want to play the game. Either way, I can respect your decision. Whatever you do....dont ever give up. Whether you compete now or 6 months from now....give it all you got and be the best you can be on that day.
    I appreciate the response Sean,Im gonna stick with the plan and keep cutting,I feel that i came to far not todo the competition.Idk if i can get 15 pounds but i def think 10 more pounds of fat can come off.My diet is as posted and im doing fasted morning cardio 7 days a week lifting 6,I will keep you guys updated though
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    That was not my intention. I am not the type that is looking for a pissing contest or to go back and forth to "prove" something. I have learned a long time ago that arguing on the internet is almost always futile and a waste of time. I was only clarifying mis-information that was being stated.
    Thats a great attitude to have about internet debate. Yea, its fun, but often times (especially on subjects like these, its been beaten to death) it can go around in circles forever...And thank you for the shot at the end about the "misinformation". I can at least agree that it is debateable. To deny that there is even a debate over the issue is rather naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    I appreciate the response Sean,Im gonna stick with the plan and keep cutting,I feel that i came to far not todo the competition.Idk if i can get 15 pounds but i def think 10 more pounds of fat can come off.My diet is as posted and im doing fasted morning cardio 7 days a week lifting 6,I will keep you guys updated though
    I totally understand your position. Just keep in mind....there is ALWAYS another competition. You would have to prob wait until March or April but the realistic point of view is that you need that much time to come in properly. Most people severely underestimate the amount of bodyfat they carry their first time out so stepping back from the situation and putting off competition is nothing to be ashamed of. Not that i am trying to push you in one direction or another. Just some food for thought. If you do the comp in 4 weeks, keep dieting hard as you are and lose as much weight as possible. Remember to soak it all in and keep good notes. The object is to improve every time you go out. SO GET ER DONE!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    I can at least agree that it is debateable. To deny that there is even a debate over the issue is rather naive.
    Everything is debatable but what it ultimately boils down to, in regards to giving out advice or stating things as "facts", is if something has been clinically demonstrated to be true or not. To my knowledge there is absolutely no evidence that supports the theory of a isocaloric diet comprised of low-carb/high protein/high fat being "metabolism crushing". It is fine if YOU prefer a higher carb diet and it is fine to recommend things based of your personal experience but when you make statements as "fact" or "truth" that have zero evidence supporting it, then I usually chime in. Ultimately if high carb works for you than awesome! Enjoy it and eat up and tell the world about how awesome your high carb diet is but don't paint a picture of a low carb diet being devastating or demonizing it as something it isn't.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Well, no....not everything is debateable. I mean, you COULD debate anything, but you would look like a royal freaking idiot trying to convince me that the world is flat, right? Well, this isnt one of those debates. There is very strong evidence logged for the metabolic effects of low carb/ketogenic driven diets. And the evidence varies.....probably depending on individuals and their tolerance to carbohydrates. To deny this debate is good debate with valid points on either side is insane. And I never presented anything as "FACT". Everything I suggest to people is my OPINION based on years of experience and the fact that I have done pretty well at this sport. You dont accidentally become a pro bodybuilder....and I hate to bring this point up, but you seem to suggest that my personal experience has no validity. When I have personally witnessed people go from a slow or very slow metabolism on keto of CKD and reintroduce carbs and completely change the way they perform and function as a bodybuilder.....thats worth something. If its not worth anything to you....ok. But please dont come on here and tell me I pushing bull **** to people who seek advice on my thread.

    The real bull **** is to say there is "zero evidence supporting my point of view". All you have to do is look a bit further than some of the anti-carb literature you have been reading.

    Volek JS, et al. Body composition and hormonal responses to a carbohydrate-restricted diet. Metabolism. 2002 Jul; 51 (7): 864-870.

    Ullrich IH, et al. Effect of low-carbohydrate diets high in either fat or protein on thyroid function, plasma insulin, glucose, and triglycerides in healthy young adults. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 1985; 4 (4): 451-459.


    Davidson MB, Chopra IJ. Effect of carbohydrate and noncarbohydrate sources of calories on plasma 3,5,3′-triiodothyronine concentrations in man. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Apr, 1979; 48 (4): 577–581.


    Mathieson RA, et al. The effect of varying carbohydrate content of a very-low-caloric diet on resting metabolic rate and thyroid hormones. Metabolism, May, 1986; 35 (5): 394-398.

    Fery F, et al. Hormonal and metabolic changes induced by an isocaloric isoproteinic ketogenic diet in healthy subjects. Diabetes & Metabolism, Dec 1982; 8 (4): 299-305.

    Danforth E Jr, et al. Dietary-induced Alterations in Thyroid Hormone Metabolism during Overnutrition. Journal of Clinical Investigation, 1979; 64 (5): 1336–1347.

    Saris WHM, et al. Study on food intake and energy expenditure during extreme sustained exercise: The Tour de France. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 1989; 10 (Suppl 1): S26-S31. http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?fid=1571
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Well, no....not everything is debateable. I mean, you COULD debate anything, but you would look like a royal freaking idiot trying to convince me that the world is flat, right? Well, this isnt one of those debates. There is very strong evidence logged for the metabolic effects of low carb/ketogenic driven diets. And the evidence varies.....probably depending on individuals and their tolerance to carbohydrates. To deny this debate is good debate with valid points on either side is insane. And I never presented anything as "FACT". Everything I suggest to people is my OPINION based on years of experience and the fact that I have done pretty well at this sport. You dont accidentally become a pro bodybuilder....and I hate to bring this point up, but you seem to suggest that my personal experience has no validity. When I have personally witnessed people go from a slow or very slow metabolism on keto of CKD and reintroduce carbs and completely change the way they perform and function as a bodybuilder.....thats worth something. If its not worth anything to you....ok. But please dont come on here and tell me I pushing bull **** to people who seek advice on my thread.

    The real bull **** is to say there is "zero evidence supporting my point of view". All you have to do is look a bit further than some of the anti-carb literature you have been reading.
    I will refrain from addressing or responding to the comments made in this post as the tone of it comes off rather argumentative and defensive than it does someone looking for a discussion or trying to debate.

    Like I said I am not looking for a pissing contest with you, only correcting a statement you made which was false (that a low carb diet will crush someones metabolism). Instead let me address your "studies" you are trying to cite here as evidence or proof.

    [I]Volek JS, et al. Body composition and hormonal responses to a carbohydrate-restricted diet. Metabolism. 2002 Jul; 51 (7): 864-870.
    This study actually proves my point and the states the opposite of what you are attempting to prove.. i.e that low carb diets are superior for fat loss and LBM and also increase thyroid output. It is actually laughable that you would cite something from Jeff Volek as he is a huge proponent of a low carb diet.


    Ullrich IH, et al. Effect of low-carbohydrate diets high in either fat or protein on thyroid function, plasma insulin, glucose, and triglycerides in healthy young adults. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 1985; 4 (4): 451-459.
    Now this one showed a reduction in T3 levels but even the authors state "The significance of the lower T3 level is unknown." which is most likely due to the levels of other thyroid hormones which went up.

    Davidson MB, Chopra IJ. Effect of carbohydrate and noncarbohydrate sources of calories on plasma 3,5,3 prime-triiodothyronine concentrations in man. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Apr, 1979; 48 (4): 577–581.
    This one have isnt available in PubMed and is also 30 years old. Even IF it demonstrated any change in metabolism the results would be questionable considering it's date and the amount of more recent research which shows the opposite.


    Mathieson RA, et al. The effect of varying carbohydrate content of a very-low-caloric diet on resting metabolic rate and thyroid hormones. Metabolism, May, 1986; 35 (5): 394-398.
    Again this one also shows the opposite of your claim. The subjects on a low carb diet had a 12% reduction in Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) and those on a high carb diet had a 20% reduction. Furthermore, those on a VLCD (very low carb diet) had no reduction at all until three weeks into the experiment. Low carb subjects also lost more weight overall.


    Fery F, et al. Hormonal and metabolic changes induced by an isocaloric isoproteinic ketogenic diet in healthy subjects. Diabetes & Metabolism, Dec 1982; 8 (4): 299-305.
    Here they demonstrated a decrease in one thyroid hormone and an increase in another and recorded no impact on Resting Metabolic Rate.


    Danforth E Jr, et al. Dietary-induced Alterations in Thyroid Hormone Metabolism during Overnutrition. Journal of Clinical Investigation, 1979; 64 (5): 1336–1347.
    This was an overfeeding study without a low carb arm so says nothing about the impact of low carb diets on metabolism.

    Overall you don't appear to really understand what these studies are showing because it is certainly not that a low carb will "crush" your metabolism.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    IOverall you don't appear to really understand what these studies are showing because it is certainly not that a low carb will "crush" your metabolism.
    To be perfectly honest I did not go in and read each of these studies, but my point was merely to show that there is banter on both sides of the debate. And I dont remember stating that low carb diets crush anyones metabolism. I stated that it is metabolically advantageous for most athletes to consume a higher ratio of carbs over fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    This was an overfeeding study without a low carb arm so says nothing about the impact of low carb diets on metabolism..
    Actually the study was in regard to overfeeding and it backs up my experience quite well. Like I said before I have found that I can consume more calories (without detriment to body comp) when my diet is high carb as opposed to high fat. The showed that a group of overfed men rquired more calories to maintain their body weight with a mixed diet over the group that was overfed fat.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    This one have isnt available in PubMed and is also 30 years old. Even IF it demonstrated any change in metabolism the results would be questionable considering it's date and the amount of more recent research which shows the opposite..
    A little cut and paste summary from the interwebz on the study:

    In a study by UCLA researchers, six normal weight subjects followed 5 different diets for 5 days each. Three of the diets provided 2100 calories and 104, 202 and 409 grams of carbohydrate daily. Compared to the high-carbohydrate diet, the low carbohydrate diet caused a significant drop in T3 levels. The mean T3 results were 69, 86, and 91 ng/dl on the low-, medium-, and high-carbohydrate diets, respectively. The remaining two diets were hypercaloric, providing 4100 calories daily and 206 and 407 grams of carbohydrate daily. On both diets, the mean T3 level on both the 206- and 407-gram diets was 108 ng/dl. In this study, increasing carbohydrate intake over a range of 104-409 grams daily at eucaloric levels resulted in greater T3 levels, while on the high-calorie diet T3 concentrations were similarly increased with carbohydrate intakes of 206 and 407 grams per day[Davidson MB].

    So again.....I reiterate. This is debateable. If you want to continue eating a high fat diet while trying to bodybuild.....by all means. Experience is a great teacher and I have learned the opposite to be advantageous. Thats all. I dont need to prove that point. There is a reason why most of the top contest prep consultants lean their clients toward high carb diets. Dr. Joe Klemczewski is a big high carb proponent. Does he diet everyone on high carbs? No. But the majority of his clients yes. Same with Layne Norton, Tommy Jeffers, 3DMJ, etc, etc. There is a reason for it. Heck, even Branch Warren .....one of the biggest factors attributed to his recent success was switching to high carb diet when Farah took the reigns. Again, this is all anectdotal. But valuable information none-the-less.

    I have to run......im gonna be gone for the weekend so you can call me names and poop on my thread for two full days before I can reply.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post

    I have to run......im gonna be gone for the weekend so you can call me names and poop on my thread for two full days before I can reply.
    No need for that, the point was made.

    Enjoy your weekend!
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    No need for that, the point was made.

    Enjoy your weekend!

    Thanks man. Yea, the weekend was great. I took my son on a little father/son overnight with his "Treeclimbers" (Cub Scout) group. It was a manly adventure complete with BB gun shooting, potato gun firing, archery, dodge ball, etc. Would have been better if it didnt rain all weekend but...you cant everything.

    Been chipping away at "The Omnivores Dilemma". When I finish we will have some good discussion.
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    The new advertisment came out in "REPS" magazine today. Gunner told me I reminded him of He Man in front of Castle GreySkull. "I have the POWER!!!" Ha ha!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    The new advertisment came out in "REPS" magazine today. Gunner told me I reminded him of He Man in front of Castle GreySkull. "I have the POWER!!!" Ha ha!!

    BigGunn~"Just happy to be invited to the party!"
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    If I could only get my calves to look like that.......

    I used to love that show as a kid. Heck, I recently got the whole first season on DVD. I know im a dork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGunn View Post
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    Hilarious! I was just talking about that show last week with my wife and get this she never saw it! I told her thats divorce talk right there.

    Awesome ad though guys
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    The new advertisment came out in "REPS" magazine today. Gunner told me I reminded him of He Man in front of Castle GreySkull. "I have the POWER!!!" Ha ha!!


    Awesome AD Gunner and sick shot Sean!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Thanks man. Yea, the weekend was great. I took my son on a little father/son overnight with his "Treeclimbers" (Cub Scout) group. It was a manly adventure complete with BB gun shooting, potato gun firing, archery, dodge ball, etc. Would have been better if it didnt rain all weekend but...you cant everything.

    Been chipping away at "The Omnivores Dilemma". When I finish we will have some good discussion.
    My little guy is still too young for the cub scots but I plan on enrolling him when he is of age. I never went to anything even close to that as a child myself so i want him to be able to experience it. Do you and your kid enjoy it?

    I havent even completely read OD all the way yet. I pick it up and read a chapter or two here and there. I cant read through the whole boiiok straight through mainly due to my attention span (which is that of a 5 year old) and the fact it just pisses me off too much. The term organic has almost no value anymore in my eyes. It has just been watered down way to much. Which is why I now advocate for one to be a locavore above all else. It is always better to buy local IMO
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    My little guy is still too young for the cub scots but I plan on enrolling him when he is of age. I never went to anything even close to that as a child myself so i want him to be able to experience it. Do you and your kid enjoy it?

    I havent even completely read OD all the way yet. I pick it up and read a chapter or two here and there. I cant read through the whole boiiok straight through mainly due to my attention span (which is that of a 5 year old) and the fact it just pisses me off too much. The term organic has almost no value anymore in my eyes. It has just been watered down way to much. Which is why I now advocate for one to be a locavore above all else. It is always better to buy local IMO
    Oh yea...my son loves it. He couldnt wait to go and then hes been talking about it since we got back. It was a good time. Defintely good father/son time well spent. The club is through our church so there is a spiritual side to it as well which we appreciate.

    I hear you on the book. Im on chapter 4 or so and I am reading about how the corn industry basically defies all the laws of supply and demand and how the government has basically made it so that the farmer is working for them producing more and more of a product that we really dont need or want and subsidizing the ever increasing gap between what the corn is worth vs. what is costs to grow. Blows my mind. And then to think about how that ties into the obesity epidemic......wow. Crazy.

    Ive been trying to be as much "locovore" as I can with limited budget and access. My sis is a big proponent of organic/vegetarian living, etc. So I have been slowly indoctrinated. We have a farmers market that literally takes place about 100 yards from our house every saturday so we can grab a lot there. But in the winter we eat a lot of pesticide.

    Im also in the process of reading some Lyle McDonald stuff so I am going back and forth......and yea, not enough time to devote to either. Ive also been looking into some pub-med on the issue we were discussing before and found a few more recent studies correlating leptin to carb/glucose intake, etc, etc. Ill be sure to post some of the stuff up once ive read through it if you are interested.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Oh yea...my son loves it. He couldnt wait to go and then hes been talking about it since we got back. It was a good time. Defintely good father/son time well spent. The club is through our church so there is a spiritual side to it as well which we appreciate.

    I hear you on the book. Im on chapter 4 or so and I am reading about how the corn industry basically defies all the laws of supply and demand and how the government has basically made it so that the farmer is working for them producing more and more of a product that we really dont need or want and subsidizing the ever increasing gap between what the corn is worth vs. what is costs to grow. Blows my mind. And then to think about how that ties into the obesity epidemic......wow. Crazy.

    Ive been trying to be as much "locovore" as I can with limited budget and access. My sis is a big proponent of organic/vegetarian living, etc. So I have been slowly indoctrinated. We have a farmers market that literally takes place about 100 yards from our house every saturday so we can grab a lot there. But in the winter we eat a lot of pesticide.

    Im also in the process of reading some Lyle McDonald stuff so I am going back and forth......and yea, not enough time to devote to either. Ive also been looking into some pub-med on the issue we were discussing before and found a few more recent studies correlating leptin to carb/glucose intake, etc, etc. Ill be sure to post some of the stuff up once ive read through it if you are interested.
    Yea it really makes you think about our whole obesity epidemic we have here in the states. I try to not be a conspiracst but it is pretty evident that our government has this obsession with corn and pushes it onto the consumer as some holy grail of foods. Hence why our food pyramid is so largely based on grains and demonizes fat. We have made it so cheap for a farmer to grow corn vs any other fruit or veggie and now have such of an abundance of corn it is being used for literally everything! You will be amazed on the amount of products that use corn not to mention we also sell this corn to other countries and effectively put their farmers out of business since we can sell it for so cheap. Why isn't spinach subsidized? Why isn't tomatoes subsidized? Why is it just corn? Makes you wonder if they intentionally wanted to make us fat buy stuffing corn down our throat only to turn around and sell us all these meds to control our now acquired diabetes, cholesterol and blood pressure medications. What I found the most intriguing was the section on corn and its ability to actually alter our DNA and our corn is really a capitalist plant with its unique strains which open the doors to companies patenting them. The amount of **** that goes on in the food industry and the level of impact it has on our government is insane.

    As for the leptin stuff.. I am not that well versed in understanding all that is involved with leptin to the level of being able to hold a debate or discussion around it. There has been some recent threads posted by ssbackwards that you might find interesting. But as far as what you have come across regarding a leptin/carb correlation I would be more than happy to hear what you have learned about it and open to hearing whatever connections who found but again I really cant contribute much as I dont really know a ton about leptin to really comment on it.

    What have you ben reading by McDonald? I recently put a order in for his stubborn fat book and look forward to giving that a read myself.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Why isn't spinach subsidized? Why isn't tomatoes subsidized? Why is it just corn? Makes you wonder if they intentionally wanted to make us fat buy stuffing corn down our throat only to turn around and sell us all these meds to control our now acquired diabetes, cholesterol and blood pressure medications.
    I know that you know the answer to this but I figure I would chime in anyways......Why isnt it subsidized? Because there is no money in spinach. Spinach doesnt have any lobbying power.....companies arent making high fructose spinach syrup and stuffing it into anything and everything to make a buck. I dont believe the government WANTS to make people fat and I also dont believe there is anything inherently fattening about corn. Yes, its more calorie dense than say....spinach. But what "IS" inherently fattening is the availability of very cheap calories. HFCS and all the other variations provide those cheap calories. Coca Cola, Kellogs, etc keep make money because they continue to support big government intervention in the farming industry which supplies them with cheap corn so they can provide fat people with cheap food.....and the cycle goes around. It really is disgusting that we allow it to happen but this is the problem with big government. When Big Brother decides whats best for everyone, money always gets in the way of discernment.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    As for the leptin stuff.. I am not that well versed in understanding all that is involved with leptin to the level of being able to hold a debate or discussion around it. There has been some recent threads posted by ssbackwards that you might find interesting. But as far as what you have come across regarding a leptin/carb correlation I would be more than happy to hear what you have learned about it and open to hearing whatever connections who found but again I really cant contribute much as I dont really know a ton about leptin to really comment on it.
    Ill post some links to some studies. Its interesting stuff. There is definitely a correlation between circulating glucose and leptin. The hormonal response to carbs is primarily why I think they are beneficial to metabolism over a higher fat diet. Now, you can bring this discussion back to the obesity epidemic and recognize that at some point when you are outside of "normal" bodyfat range and activity levels, you become leptin and insulin resistant and carbs are easily stored as bodyfat. But again, I am referring to athletic individuals in my discussion around carbs. If you want to talk about obesity there are a seperate physiological responses to carbs to be discussed.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    What have you ben reading by McDonald? I recently put a order in for his stubborn fat book and look forward to giving that a read myself
    Ive read a lot of McDonald on the web but never a full book. I just got "Ultimate Diet 2.0". Its pretty darn good. I read it on the treadmill yesterday and before I knew it I was 40 pages in and burned a gazillion calories. Lots of good info on the type of hormonal environent created when dieting vs. overfeeding, etc. Lots of good info on Leptin too! Definitely recommend it.
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    Very solid session today despite the nagging knot in my left upper glute. Man is it painful. I have to warm up forever, stretch, roll, etc. I finally got to the point where i could do some working sets for my quads.

    LEGS DAY - QUAD FOCUS

    POWER WORK

    SMITH MACHINE SQUATS (to knee height box)

    365 X 6
    405 X 6
    455 X 6
    455 X 7 (where'd that extra rep come from?? )

    HYPER WORK

    LEG PRESS

    7 pps X 15
    7 pps X 15

    LEG EXTENSION

    155 X 12
    170 X 10
    170 X 11

    COOL DOWN, STRETCH, FOAM ROLL - 25 min.
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    I am familiar with his UD2.0 book but I never read it nor really felt a desire to read it. The diet seemed too extreme with an over intensive carb refeeds and I am not really looking to make captain crunch pancakes and shove all sorts of carb dense processed junk foods down my throat.

    But if it has a good section on leptin I might pick it up and give it a read sometime.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Wow looks like I missed a lot. I forgot what this thread was lol.

    Anyway, yea america goes with the money. Logical for a power looking to stay in power. Sad though. By the year 2030 50% of america will be obese. Man.

    Anyway, lyles stuff is interesting but he is not one to practice what he preaches and doesn't get much respect. Kinda like the how the guy who invented crossfit looks like a couch potato. He had good info, but I wouldn't consider him a role model.

    UD 2.0 was good for aesthetics but the drop in performance i had due to so many carb type intolerances I have made the carb up almost impossible. Try eating 1400g in white potatoes... With a damaged gi track that's not happening. Tried for 8 weeks. All I got was constipated and horrible lifting days due to being bloated in my gut. SFLP seems to be a good read. Don't have it though.

    Judojosh. You should read brocrimptin. I think that's what it is called. . That's a good one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post

    Judojosh. You should read brocrimptin. I think that's what it is called. . That's a good one.
    Bromocriptine? If so then yes I have the book and it is one of my future reads
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    Bromocriptine? If so then yes I have the book and it is one of my future reads
    Yea that's the one. Lol.

    It's pretty good info regarding leptin
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I am familiar with his UD2.0 book but I never read it nor really felt a desire to read it. The diet seemed too extreme with an over intensive carb refeeds and I am not really looking to make captain crunch pancakes and shove all sorts of carb dense processed junk foods down my throat.

    But if it has a good section on leptin I might pick it up and give it a read sometime.
    I havent gotten to the details of the carb up period. I was unaware that he recommended eating captain crunch, etc. If so, i would disagree that you NEED to eat any type of specific carb to achieve the desired result. I have heard it argued by many UD2 dieters that high-glycemic carbs should comprise the majority of the first half of your carb up. I dont know how much merit there is to that either. Regardless, I have no problem with "processed" foods but I make a point of keeping them the minority in my diet. I eat a lot of pancake mix, some cereals, granola bars, etc. But the majority of my carbs come from sweet potatos, oats, and veggies. But then again, I go by the "if it fits your macros" philosophy. Once your micro-nutrition needs are met, I dont know that it benefits you significantly to overemphasize whole foods to the exclusion of all "processed" foods. BTW, I am putting "processed" in quotes because I am assuming by using that word, you mean anything coming in a pre-packaged container. In reality, there isnt much out there that isnt processed to some degree before it hits our mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Wow looks like I missed a lot. I forgot what this thread was lol.

    Anyway, yea america goes with the money. Logical for a power looking to stay in power. Sad though. By the year 2030 50% of america will be obese. Man.

    Anyway, lyles stuff is interesting but he is not one to practice what he preaches and doesn't get much respect. Kinda like the how the guy who invented crossfit looks like a couch potato. He had good info, but I wouldn't consider him a role model.

    UD 2.0 was good for aesthetics but the drop in performance i had due to so many carb type intolerances I have made the carb up almost impossible. Try eating 1400g in white potatoes... With a damaged gi track that's not happening. Tried for 8 weeks. All I got was constipated and horrible lifting days due to being bloated in my gut. SFLP seems to be a good read. Don't have it though.

    Judojosh. You should read brocrimptin. I think that's what it is called. . That's a good one.
    Eh.....I dont put much stock in the way someone looks. I know thats a big deal to many people, hence the reason why supplement manu's use bodybuilders in their advertisements. BUt I am much more interested in the content of what the guys says. Again, I havent read the whole book yet, but so far he seems like he knows his stuff.

    As for the white potatos, I did an entire carb load for a show one time on white potatoes. I ate 8 lbs of them over two days. I had already learned prior to the load that it was the skins that caused my GI tract to go insane with bloating and gas. I peeled all 8 lbs of the potatos and I was totally fine. No digestion issues in the least. Not saying this is the case for you, but you might give it a try if you havent already.
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    Yea I don't eat any potato skins.
    They have all the plant lectins. Basically inflammatory stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Yea I don't eat any potato skins.
    They have all the plant lectins. Basically inflammatory stuff.
    But you miss all that good fiber that keeps the GI down......keeps from spikin dem insulinz.
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    Whats up Sean have an update on my progress and hoping you can share some last min tips


    Here i am 14 days out,Im doing the show 100% no going back!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clDEXTyH1Vw


    Really gonna go hard with posing practice but any tips you recommend last 2 weeks?

    So far i cut out all supplements
    no tap water just bottled
    Only condiment im using is hot sauce n pepper


    Also was getting great pumps between the cabergolean preworkout and Ergo-Blitz intra workout ,Review coming up for both of those!
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    Hell of a transformation Vin! Looking good bro!!!
    BigGunn~"Just happy to be invited to the party!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGunn View Post
    Hell of a transformation Vin! Looking good bro!!!
    '

    Thanks 13 days left to give it my all!Then a long offseason to pack on some muscle!
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    Nice man. You have moved a lot of weight in 14 weeks. And you mentioned it in your blog.....but this is a learning experience so you just have to remember this experience.....what worked and what didnt.....and add that to your base of knowledge. You should get better every competition you do.

    As for last minute advice, my advice would be to change as little as possible. You dont hold water in your natural state so there is no need to try and do crazy things to "shed water". You are not going to look dramatically better between monday of peak and saturday show day. It just doesnt work that way. The only thing I change is the amount of carbohydrates i eat. My supplements, water, sodium and other electrolytes stay the same as they were for the previous 30 weeks. Keep the water cranking, sodium, potassium and calcium elevated. Just maintain consistency and focus on the things that matter......like posing, mental attitude, etc. Carbs are the largest factor determining your look on show day. I backload my carbs on friday and saturday but I dont go crazy. If im not horribly depleted, 1000g of carbs spread over two days is plenty. If I were you I might just double your normal intake and play conservative. Better to be a little flat then spilled.

    Keep me posted and let me know how you do!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    Whats up Sean have an update on my progress and hoping you can share some last min tips


    Here i am 14 days out,Im doing the show 100% no going back!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clDEXTyH1Vw

    Really gonna go hard with posing practice but any tips you recommend last 2 weeks?

    So far i cut out all supplements
    no tap water just bottled
    Only condiment im using is hot sauce n pepper


    Also was getting great pumps between the cabergolean preworkout and Ergo-Blitz intra workout ,Review coming up for both of those!
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Nice man. You have moved a lot of weight in 14 weeks. And you mentioned it in your blog.....but this is a learning experience so you just have to remember this experience.....what worked and what didnt.....and add that to your base of knowledge. You should get better every competition you do.

    As for last minute advice, my advice would be to change as little as possible. You dont hold water in your natural state so there is no need to try and do crazy things to "shed water". You are not going to look dramatically better between monday of peak and saturday show day. It just doesnt work that way. The only thing I change is the amount of carbohydrates i eat. My supplements, water, sodium and other electrolytes stay the same as they were for the previous 30 weeks. Keep the water cranking, sodium, potassium and calcium elevated. Just maintain consistency and focus on the things that matter......like posing, mental attitude, etc. Carbs are the largest factor determining your look on show day. I backload my carbs on friday and saturday but I dont go crazy. If im not horribly depleted, 1000g of carbs spread over two days is plenty. If I were you I might just double your normal intake and play conservative. Better to be a little flat then spilled.

    Keep me posted and let me know how you do!!
    Thanks alot Sean

    this is the game plan from my coach

    game plan

    "im not loading you you're not lean enough to load we gotta keep you flat and dry"

    he said hes gonna load me a little but not much at all,so seems good to me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    Thanks alot Sean

    this is the game plan from my coach

    game plan

    "im not loading you you're not lean enough to load we gotta keep you flat and dry"

    he said hes gonna load me a little but not much at all,so seems good to me!
    In reality, you have to be pretty damn lean to notice a significant difference with any peak week strategy. Getting leaner is just a matter of dieting longer (and preferably slower to minimize muscle loss). My first show I dieted for 13 weeks and realized I needed to be much leaner to be real competitive. My next show was about 20 weeks of dieting. The show(s) where I won my pro card I had 25-30 weeks of dieting in prior. And I still wasnt happy with my level of leanness. It just takes time to figure it all out. Youre doing great.....just keep your eye on the prize and get ready to have some fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYbodybuilder View Post
    Thanks alot Sean

    this is the game plan from my coach

    game plan

    "im not loading you you're not lean enough to load we gotta keep you flat and dry"

    he said hes gonna load me a little but not much at all,so seems good to me!
    Smart! Definitely a good move..that last minute crap just doesn't work like it's supposed to
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    Strength is still on the rise! I got 435 X 6 for sumo deadlifts last night. Heres my workout:

    HAMSTRING AND GLUTE TRAINING:

    SUMO DL's

    Warm ups:
    135 X alot
    225 X 12
    315 X 8
    365 X 6
    405 X 3

    Working set: 435 X 6

    ROMANIAN DL's

    275 X 12

    SMITH SPLIT SQUATS:

    225 X 15
    275 X 10

    LEG CURLS

    105 X 8
    120 X 8
    135 X 4, drop X 2, drop X 2

    STRETCH/ROLL - 15 min.
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    I had another nice leg session last night. Pumped up on Ergo......felt real good. Im starting to diet down for the Tournament of Champions in April. I am about 15 lbs over my depleted stage weight so I have a solid 15-20 weeks of dieting in front of me to get shredded. Im planning on a bit of a loose schedule through the holidays that will include some big depletion days so I can eat relatively freely at holiday gatherings and still allow me to drop 3-5 lbs over the next 6 weeks. Then, ill be going deep into prep mode hitting my numbers every day right after Christmas.

    LEG HYPERTROPHY - QUAD FOCUS

    LEG PRESS
    9 PPS X 8
    8 PPS X 12
    8 PPS X 12
    6 PPS X 20 (head was spinning after this set)

    LEG EXTENSION

    3/4 stack X 12 X 3 sets

    10 min cardio cool down, 15 min stretch and roll......Done and Done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    I had another nice leg session last night. Pumped up on Ergo......felt real good. Im starting to diet down for the Tournament of Champions in April. I am about 15 lbs over my depleted stage weight so I have a solid 15-20 weeks of dieting in front of me to get shredded. Im planning on a bit of a loose schedule through the holidays that will include some big depletion days so I can eat relatively freely at holiday gatherings and still allow me to drop 3-5 lbs over the next 6 weeks. Then, ill be going deep into prep mode hitting my numbers every day right after Christmas.

    LEG HYPERTROPHY - QUAD FOCUS

    LEG PRESS
    9 PPS X 8
    8 PPS X 12
    8 PPS X 12
    6 PPS X 20 (head was spinning after this set)

    LEG EXTENSION

    3/4 stack X 12 X 3 sets

    10 min cardio cool down, 15 min stretch and roll......Done and Done.
    Is the goal for you to be losing around 1lb a week?
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    Quote Originally Posted by benawesome View Post
    Is the goal for you to be losing around 1lb a week?
    Yes, I am actually 22 weeks out and 15 lbs over. It would be great if I could lose 15 lbs in 15 weeks, but i know the last 3-5 lbs are the real challenge and will most likely be coming off in dribs and drabs at the end. Im hoping to come in another pound leaner than last june though so I know its going to prove even more difficult. The big advantage i have this time around is that im starting my prep considerably leaner than I ever have before. However, I dont know that my metabolism has completely recovered from my last prep.....so its gonna be interesting. Worst case, if im not completely shredded by APril, I can compete in June.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Yes, I am actually 22 weeks out and 15 lbs over. It would be great if I could lose 15 lbs in 15 weeks, but i know the last 3-5 lbs are the real challenge and will most likely be coming off in dribs and drabs at the end. Im hoping to come in another pound leaner than last june though so I know its going to prove even more difficult. The big advantage i have this time around is that im starting my prep considerably leaner than I ever have before. However, I dont know that my metabolism has completely recovered from my last prep.....so its gonna be interesting. Worst case, if im not completely shredded by APril, I can compete in June.
    That is a very wise move to take your time like this. Do you stay pretty consistent with your weight? Seems like you have a set number in mind just wondering if you stay consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hgh_Peptides View Post
    I'd run hgh frag176 mixed with Cjc-1295....
    1mg of each per day average of each.(arch it)
    Split it into 2 - 3 doses.
    Taper once you hit the goal.
    End the cjc-1295 before the fragment.... (use fragment as PCT ) cut the frag at least a week before the date..... Preferably 2 weeks before...

    Did I miss something?
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    Quote Originally Posted by benawesome View Post
    That is a very wise move to take your time like this. Do you stay pretty consistent with your weight? Seems like you have a set number in mind just wondering if you stay consistent.




    Did I miss something?
    This board has been getting mean spam lately... from bulk vita guys and I guess now... Peptide promoters..
    RecoverBro ELITE
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