Agmatine product request-nootropic,pain reliever & endurance benefits
- 01-29-2008, 10:33 AM
Agmatine product request-nootropic,pain reliever & endurance benefits
I don't understand why NO ONE is offering agmatine sulfate in bulk.It's the active in MAN's Blueprint but at $35 for a 20 day supply it's a bit expensive.Bulk pricing would make it a lot more affordable and allow it to be used as a staple that it is,IMO.
Here's an article on it:
Agmatine ((4-aminobutyl) guanidine, NH2-CH2-CH2-CH2-CH2-NH-C(-NH2)(=NH )) is a byproduct of Arginine that is produced through a process called decarboxylation. It is basically Arginine with the carboxylic acid end removed.
Nearly anyone hip to the supplement game is up on Arginine. Many years back, Arginine was heavily promoted by Life Extensionists (most notably, Shaw and Pearson) and sports nutritionists (Dr. Michael Colgan) as a big GH releaser. It has most recently regained popularity as one of the hottest supplements in sports nutrition for its role in the production of Nitric Oxide (NO). Just walk into any sports nutrition store and look at any supplement line and you are bound to see a host of NO products. Supplement companies are pumping Arginine pills out faster than McDonald’s is slanging Happy Meals to toddlers. “Skin bursting pumps,” “enhanced nutrient delivery” and “sheer SIZE” are attributes being heavily touted as a result of Arginine supplementation in various forms. See, Ethyl Ester Mania!
Arginine does have many benefits to both the bodybuilder as well as person seeking general health improvement. Arginine is well documented for its ability to support endogenous production of creatine, stimulation of protein synthesis, insulin sensitivity through attenuation of blood glucose, GH production, and its role in the urea cycle to aid in the removal of nitrogenous waste. It may even have a general health role for those that have suffered from heart failure and/or a heart attack, as well as a potential aid in sexual dysfunction cases, including enhancement of spermatogenesis (sperm production), either as a standalone or in conjunction with synergistic nutrients via its vasodilatory properties. Arginine’s effects truly seem to be unsurpassed.
That is, until now! Agmatine is likely the one molecule to take part in more metabolic processing than Arginine. There are nineteen well-accepted mechanisms of action suggested in the literature and at least thirteen have direct benefits to the bodybuilder and/or health enthusiast with even more effects being discovered literally on a daily basis!
In the body, Agmatine is widely and unevenly distributed. It has been identified in the stomach, aorta, small intestine, large intestine, spleen, lung, vas deferens (of the male genital tract), adrenal gland, kidney, heart, liver, skeletal muscle, the testes, and brain. The concentration of agmatine varies in different parts of these organs. The highest concentrations of which were the stomach, aorta, and small intestine. However, since the enzyme that converts Arginine into Agmatine has not been confirmed in the fundus of the stomach and/or intestine, it has been debated by some that either an independent source of agmatine also exists or that it should be obtained through bacterial colonization or the diet, and absorbed via a specific transporter.
All foods are made up of hundreds of naturally occurring compounds that can have varying effects on us, depending on how much we eat and how sensitive we are. Biogenic amines - like Agmatine - are formed by the breakdown of proteins in foods. Foods like beef, fish, bananas, avocados, mushrooms, chocolate, sauerkraut, and soy sauce are just some that contain Agmatine to varying degrees, though these levels can vary precipitously and drastically alter the amount you are ingesting. The problem is that as we age, it appears that our levels of amines decline. This can have disastrous effects on mental functioning, blood pressure, body temperature, amongst many others we will discuss momentarily.
The effects of this highly versatile nutrient can be divided into two groups based on the individuals that choose to use it. The athlete or life extensionist, both of which continue to strive for the healthy lifestyle, can expect different effects from agmatine to aid in attaining their goals. The benefits here are not mutually exclusive and therefore you may see the same effects listed for both camps.
Agmatine and The Athlete
1. Agmatine is a pain fighter. This can be beneficial to the athlete in two ways:
(a) It can potentiate the effects of analgesics used during recuperation from injury.
(cool.gif It has the potential to aid post-workout recovery.
2. Agmatine enhances insulin production leading to better insulin response. This allows for positive effects in attaining body composition goals. Better insulin response means a harder and leaner more muscular body.
3. Agmatine acts on various hypothalamic and pituitary peptide hormones such as LH and GH. These will have subsequent effects on other hormones like IGF-1. Control of the hormonal environment of the athlete and you will perform better, look better and feel better.
4. Agmatine possesses anxiolytic (relieves anxiety) and antidepressant properties offering potential control of cortisol levels in the stressful life of the athlete.
5. Agmatine modulates nitric oxide (NO) through different ways. It stimulates some types of nitric oxide synthase (NOS) while inhibiting others. This is essential to the proper functioning of the polyamine biosynthetic pathways.
6. Agmatine acts on catecholamine (Epinephrine > Norepinephrine > Dopamine) release. These endogenous compounds are part of nearly every action in the body. Most notably for the athlete is the role that this compound would ultimately have in both energy production and aiding anticipation of the stress afforded by competition. However, there are also well-established roles that epinephrine can have on the body that includes: increasing endurance, enhancing performance, and decreasing body fat.
7. Agmatine has an antioxidant role. There can be no greater source of free-radical build up than that seen in the day-to-day activity of the athlete. The sheer stress that the body takes on when in you’re an athlete in the trenches (i.e. – the gym, the field, etc…) could ultimately have significant detrimental effects with continued build up. Agmatine can offer protection from the undesired effects that free radicals can have on the body.
8. For the athlete desiring body composition change, Agmatine has an independent role of insulin and testosterone management on lipid (fat) metabolism.
9. Agmatine possesses nootropic effects (it acts as a “novel” neurotransmitter). This can offer the athlete a potential mental edge to prepare for various events.
10. Agmatine can aid in kidney function by stimulating the glomerular filtration rate (GFR). This can bode the bodybuilder well as various nitrogenous waste products are removed through this system.
11. Agmatine harbors a hypotensive role which could assist the exogenously-enhanced athlete in keeping blood pressure in check.
Agmatine and The Life Extensionist
1. Agmatine has a neuroprotective role. The life extensionist will likely see this as a positive effect in cases of such chronic diseases as Alzheimer’s Dementia. This is thought to originate through a couple of mechanisms, but most notably its prevention of over-excitation by glutamate and its antioxidant roles.
2. Agmatine can assist in chronic pain management. Sufferers of things such as chronic degenerative diseases that do not get adequate relief from various pharmaceutical analgesic agents may see agmatine as the ideal adjunct to their current treatment.
3. Agmatine’s antioxidant role has significant impact on one of the unifying themes of aging in oxidative stress accumulation and its contribution to the aging individual.
4. Agmatine may possess a role in cancer prevention via its modulation of all polyamine biosynthetic pathways. This effect may be limited to vascular growths via smooth muscle cell overgrowth. Control of cell growth can be attributed to two different pathways:
* A membrane receptor controlled pathway
* A pathway dependent on cellular polyamine content
5. As mentioned earlier, agmatine imparts action on various hypothalamic and pituitary peptide hormones such as LH and GH. Control of the hormonal environment of the anti-aging medicine enthusiast can point rather quickly at the positive effects this can have.
6. Agmatine can aid in kidney function by stimulating the glomerular filtration rate (GFR) which can positively impact those suffering from chronic kidney diseases.
7. Agmatine enhances insulin production leading to better insulin response. As we grow older this impacts glycation. Glycation is the process where sugars attach to blood proteins and results in a complex series of rearrangements and oxidative reactions leading to advanced glycation end-products (AGEs). It is this complex series of events that agmatine hits at its core and could prove synergistic with other molecules (i.e. – carnosine) in our fight to remain young.
8. Agmatine’s hypotensive role has implications here as our continued assurance of fending off the cardiovascular sequelae that offer the deleterious effects of metabolic derangements such as the virtually epidemic diabetes and obesity run rampant.
1. Abe K, Abe Y, and Saito H. Agmatine suppresses nitric oxide production in microglia. Brain Res. 872: 141-148, 2000.
2. Aricioglu-Kartal F, and Regunathan S. Effect of chronic morphine treatment on the biosynthesis of agmatine in rat brain and other tissues. Life Sci. 71: 1695-1701, 2002.
3. Gao, Y., et al. Agmatine: a novel vasodilator substance. Life Sciences. 57(8):PL83-86, 1995.
4. Halaris A, Piletz JE. Imidazoline receptors: possible involvement in the pathophysiology and treatment of depression. Hum Psychopharmacol. 16(1):65-69, 2001.
5. Kalra, S.P., et al. Agmatine, a novel hypothalamic amine, stimulates pituitary luteinizing hormone release in vivo and hypothalamic luteinizing hormone-releasing in vivo. Neuroscience Letters. 194 (3): July 21, 1995; 165-168.
6. Kawabata T, Ohshima H, Ino M. Occurrence of methylguanidine and agmatine in foods. IARC Sci Publ. (19):415-23, 1978.
7. Lortie, M.J., et al. Agmatine, a bioactive metabolite of arginine. Production, degradation, and functional effects in the kidney of the rat. Journal of Clinical Investigation. 97(2):413-420, 1996.
8. Morgan, N.G., et al. Characterization of the imidazoline binding site in regulation of insulin secretion. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences. 763:361-373, 1995.
9. Nishimura K, Shiina R, Kashiwagi K, and Igarashi K. Decrease in Polyamines with Aging and Their Ingestion from Food and Drink. J of Biochem. 139(1):81-90, 2006.
10. Raasch, W. et al. Agmatine, the bacterial amine is widely distributed in mammalian tissues. Life Sciences. 56(26):2319-2330, 1995.
11. Raghavan SA, Dik**** M. Vascular regulation by the L-arginine metabolites, nitric oxide and agmatine. Pharmacol Res. 49(5):397-414. Review, 2004.
12. Regunathan S, Feinstein DL, and Reis DJ. Anti-proliferative and anti-inflammatory actions of imidazoline agents. Are imidazoline receptors involved? Ann NY Acad Sci. 881: 410-419, 1999.
13. Regunathan S, and Reis DJ. Characteristics of arginine decarboxylase in rat brain and liver: distinction from ornithine decarboxylase. J Neurochem. 74: 2201-2208, 2000.
14. Reis DJ, and Regunathan S. Agmatine a novel neurotransmitter? Advances in Pharmacology. 42:645-649, 1998.
15. Schwartz D, Peterson OW, Mendonca M, Satriano J, Lortie M, and Blantz RC. Agmatine effects glomerular filtration rate via a nitric oxide synthase-dependent mechanism. Am J Renal Physiol. 272: F597-F601, 1997.
16. Sener A, et al. Stimulus-secretion coupling of arginine-induced insulin release. Insulinotropic action of agmatine. Biochemical Pharmacology. January 15, 1989. 38(2):327-330, 1989.
17. Tabor CW, and Tabor H. Polyamines. Ann Rev Biochem. 53: 749-790, 1984.
18. Vargiu C, Cabella C, Belliardo S, Cravanzola C, Grillo MA and Colombatto S. Agmatine modulates polyamine content in hepatocytes by inducing spermidine/spermine acetyltransferase. Eur. J Biochem. 259: 933-938, 1999.
19. Weitzel G., et al. Insulin-like partial effects of agmatine derivatives in adipocytes. Hoppe-Seylers Zeitschrift fur Physiologische Chemie. 361(1):51-60, 1980.
20. Yananli H, Goren MZ, Berkman K, Aricioglu F. Effect of agmatine on brain l-citrulline production during morphine withdrawal in rats: A microdialysis study in nucleus accumbens. Brain Res. 2007 Feb 9;1132(1):51-58, 2006.
21. Zarandi M, Serfozo P, Zsigo J, Deutch AH, Janaky T, Olsen DB, Bajusz S, Schally AV. Potent agonists of growth hormone-releasing hormone. II. Pept Res. 5(4):190-3, 1992.
- 01-29-2008, 10:48 AM
- 01-29-2008, 10:58 AM
01-29-2008, 11:21 AM
01-29-2008, 03:04 PM
01-29-2008, 06:26 PM
01-29-2008, 06:30 PM
01-29-2008, 06:37 PM
01-29-2008, 06:49 PM
Agmatine even in bulk is prohibitively expensive. Besides, Joey put a hell of a lot of time and energy/effort into making a kickass product...let him get some strong return on the investment first.
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01-29-2008, 08:06 PM
I started a Blueprint log a while ago, and I was so unimpressed by results I just completely lost track of it. All I recall noticing was the analgesic effect.
01-30-2008, 02:23 AM
01-30-2008, 07:49 AM
02-01-2008, 07:52 PM
02-02-2008, 06:24 PM
02-21-2008, 02:13 AM
02-21-2008, 03:15 AM
everyone jumps on the bandwagon!
anyone bothered to go in the science section of bb.com will find a few write ups posted why this stuff is bad.. it actually slows down protein syth....
try find it on bb.com..
it def gives it a negative!!!
tho it looks good otherwise
02-21-2008, 06:46 AM
yes, and I trust the opinions posted on bb.com so much
02-21-2008, 08:26 AM
02-21-2008, 10:24 PM
02-22-2008, 02:13 AM
02-22-2008, 04:38 AM
02-22-2008, 06:16 AM
again, why i avoid bb.com. "No Hype" there is always full of hype. And he has his own religious following there too. Similar to when PA posted in battles with Dr. D here
02-22-2008, 07:50 AM
02-22-2008, 09:26 AM
yeah its not entirely without merit, just it often feels similar to the PA postings, where he is attacking a competitors product. I also found the PA postings here useful and worth reading. The problem to me was the dogmatic followers who feel that because user X said something, it is the final word. You can find conflicting studies on the value and safety of creatine monohydrate if you look....
02-22-2008, 06:55 PM
I don't care...I still want to try it. Not that worried about protein synthesis these days. Not all of us are obsessive bbers.
03-12-2008, 02:16 PM
03-14-2008, 01:53 AM
I'm using it now. So far reduced bodyfat, fuller muscles, and vascularity. I'm curious to see if it disappears after, like with arginine, or if these are solid gains.
03-14-2008, 04:03 AM
03-25-2009, 05:08 PM
Great thread! In addition to Blue Print, NutraPlanet now offers Bulk Agmatine and DominATP (also contains Agmatine).
03-25-2009, 05:14 PM
03-25-2009, 05:19 PM
03-25-2009, 05:49 PM
03-25-2009, 06:46 PM
03-25-2009, 06:48 PM
03-25-2009, 09:16 PM
03-25-2009, 09:18 PM
03-25-2009, 09:21 PM
hmm that is a pretty tempting combo. the dominATP looks like it would be fantastic as 1.5-2x dosing (split)
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