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    Quote Originally Posted by Simpfan1278 View Post
    I thought I was sure... I read most of a 21 page thread over at bb.com and an iForce (1,4AD Bold by iForce = 1,4AD) rep stated that you don't need a SERM and that supplementing Testobolan would be good enough. I bunch of people in that thread ran cycles w/o SERM's and seemed to do just fine that way.
    He lied.

    As for those that 'ran stupid' & got away with it: russian roulette only kills 18 percent of the players, right? Problem is, if you keep playing you'll eventually join the lucky 18...

    Same here: your body may SHOW no bad reactions this time, maybe not the next time either, or the next 5 times after that - but if they keep playing that stupid "game", they WILL eventually get 'lucky'.

    Don't be one of them!
    Quote Originally Posted by Simpfan1278 View Post
    Read those two new posts also, I'll throw down for the SERM. Should I go with Nolva or Clomid?
    YES

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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    it may just be brotelligence, 1,4 seems universally considered to kick in slow. No further information on tap.

    It does kick in slow, what is broteligence is that people think that they have to run really high doses!. I think this may have happened..."Well I am running 1,4 at 400mg daily and its been 2 weeks, still nothing, so I am gonna raise it to 1 gram".....This would be his post 1 week later...."Well it seems to be working at 1 gram, so I guess I'll have to run it at high dosages to get results". So after that happens people start thinking it has to be run at a higher dose, ignoring that maybe, just maybe, it takes longer to kick in and it just happens to kick later during the cycle, and that its not the high dose, its just timing!.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    it may just be brotelligence, 1,4 seems universally considered to kick in slow. No further information on tap.
    yeah, this is what i'd like to better understand.

    i believe a lot of brotelligent people say 1,4ad takes a long time to kick-in due to the traditional characteristics of boldenone undecylenate -which has a very long ester attached causing this.

    however, 1,4ad (without this long ester) should kick in quickly?
    that is why a lengthy cycle wouldn't be mandatory to get the benefit. am i correct in my thinking?

    i've seen reports where people started getting results by wk 2 w/14ad. this wouldn't happen w/injectable bold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simpfan1278 View Post
    I will be doing 8 weeks as follows:
    weeks 1-2 500mg
    3-4 600mg
    5-6 700mg
    7-8 800mg

    Judging by that should I still need a SERM?
    If you are going to go through the "trouble" of messing around w/ your hormonal balance and a real PCT which would include a SERM run for month than you might as well run a cycle that will maxamize your gains.

    Do you really think that you will have a lot of gain after only 8 weeks on this compound?

    Also why are you tapering up your dosage?

    Look to information on equipose/boldenone to discover what to expect w/ this compound. You'll see cycles at twice the length you are running and you will see small gains. BUT most importantly you will see that EQ is usually run w/ other compounds to maxamize its effectiveness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    ...
    however, 1,4ad (without this long ester) should kick in quickly?
    that is why a lengthy cycle wouldn't be mandatory to get the benefit. am i correct in my thinking?
    Partly true. The undecylenate takes longer to kick in so cycles w/ that ester are longer BUT the other reason cycles are run longer is the slow incremental gains Bold brings each week..in other words you need to run it a while to notice much from it. Thats why it is almost never run by itself but rather used with other AAS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    If you are going to go through the "trouble" of messing around w/ your hormonal balance and a real post cycle therapy which would include a SERM run for month than you might as well run a cycle that will maxamize your gains.

    Do you really think that you will have a lot of gain after only 8 weeks on this compound?

    Also why are you tapering up your dosage?

    Look to information on equipose/boldenone to discover what to expect w/ this compound. You'll see cycles at twice the length you are running and you will see small gains. BUT most importantly you will see that EQ is usually run w/ other compounds to maxamize its effectiveness.
    From what I've read you gain 1-2lbs LBM per week, one guy gained 15lbs after 30 days but this seems unreasonable. I'm hoping for 10lbs. This will be my first PH also, so I think that 10lbs is very reasonable.
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    Anyone who is running this solo I'm curious how libido is doing???
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    Also as far as kick in time for this stuff I beleive we would be seeing more reports of guys getting sick (test flu like symptoms) early into these cycles if it was actually kicking in quickly.

    From my understanding pinning Bold prop gives a lot of guys the flu.

    Anyone verify that? That is just a connection I would have thought we might see if it was kicking in faster...maybe not.
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    Since XF is nonhormonal, would it be safe to start a cycle of XF while on Nolvadex?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simpfan1278 View Post
    Since XF is nonhormonal, would it be safe to start a cycle of XF while on Nolvadex?

    If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound?
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound?
    I'll take that as a yes. I'm not good at stuff like that.
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    My first post was off a little, but I'm not sure if it makes a differance...
    If a natural test booster is run for the entire duration of the cycle + four weeks after will a PCT still be needed since your are keeping test production going the entire time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    do you even know what you are taking?
    1,4ad converts to into the steroid hormone equipoise/boldenone.
    no serm needed if run solo you say???

    equipoise will cause a suppression of your hormones, such as endogenous testosterone.
    this is why it is recommended stacking it with testosterone.
    this is also why a quality post cycle therapy is important.
    failure to do so could result in possible sexual dysfunction and other sides.

    if you treat this like this is a harmless little supplement you will regret it later.
    There's some jackass reps saying you only need an AI for post cycle therapy, hence I intend to see whether they are correct in their assumptions. I usually run Tore or Nolva while throwing in 6-oxo in after two weeks. post cycle therapy always ran smoothly and I have little intent on changing my protocol. But I'm am curious if it turns out suppression is minor and 6-oxo will suffice for PCT.

    And for decades people have ran cycles with no PCT and they apparently recovered just fine. Not condoning the practice and if you can minimize this downtime then why not.

    *edit*
    Should have read page 2 before replying. I'd like to confirm or dispel some of the myths going around, namely no SERM is required for PCT. If endogenous T production isn't completely suppressed then a SERM isn't needed? At what % does T or LH need to drop before a SERM or AI should be used?

    As for taking a few weeks to kick in that is BS. Gains are around 1-2lbs per week so in the initial weeks you may not notice much of a change. Also inflammation and acne take awhile to develop so people think it's kicking in since these appear.

    As for the high dose being needed it's not just the more is better mentality. Oral BA is 45% and conversion rate is 10-15% thus a higher dose is needed. Again reps say 400mg will suffice because using at a higher(effective) dose their product becomes prohibitively expensive for most.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simpfan1278 View Post
    My first post was off a little, but I'm not sure if it makes a differance...
    If a natural test booster is run for the entire duration of the cycle + four weeks after will a post cycle therapy still be needed since your are keeping test production going the entire time?
    It doesn't necessarily work that way. Your body senses the presence of exogenous hormones and reduces its own production.

    Setting aside the questionable efficacy of most "test boosters" what they claim to do is raise test by increasing luteneizing hormone or one of the other trigger hormones in the HPTA axis.

    So (even if they worked as claimed), you could simply end up with your body receiving some hormonal signals to increase test production and other hormonal signals to decrease test production.

    The body is a balance of feedback loops. You can't think of it in mechanical terms (if I take X it will keep the test production turned on during a cycle).
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwood View Post
    M4OHN is a very mild methyl, actually. It is always advisable to be careful with these, but the bloodwork results from those who ran M4 was very mellow compared to anything else as I recall. If you ran the PP for 3 and the M4 for 4, I think you'd be fine.

    Another possible tweak to this idea would be to start the 1,4 alone for 2-3 weeks (to get it in your system) THEN add PP for 2-3 weeks, then switch to M4OHN for 4 weeks to finish it all up. That way you'd have the 1,4 throughout, and the PP to blow up, the M4 to finish it out/tighten it up. Crazy all the things you could try. I would go with 4 weeks for the M4 to see best results, but I bet as a finisher after the PP, you could do 2-3 and see good results!
    You can probably get away with this as stated, but PP is more suppressive than M4OHN so it should really be run after the M4OHN. This way keeping your natural Test levels as high as possible for as long as possible. It also allows more time to build a base with the 1,4AD for PP build on top of too. then again the M4ohn may give you some libido support at the end the cycle where you need it most.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
    As for taking a few weeks to kick in that is BS. Gains are around 1-2lbs per week so in the initial weeks you may not notice much of a change. Also inflammation and acne take awhile to develop so people think it's kicking in since these appear.
    See my above post regarding flu like symptoms common with Bold prop. Dont you think we would have seen some of these issues arise if it was kicking in right away? I have always thought this was the big drawback to Bold Prop...but I'm not sure.

    If so, I would explain the initial gains as somewhat of a placebo effect. Just speculating here...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    He lied.

    As for those that 'ran stupid' & got away with it: russian roulette only kills 18 percent of the players, right? Problem is, if you keep playing you'll eventually join the lucky 18...

    Same here: your body may SHOW no bad reactions this time, maybe not the next time either, or the next 5 times after that - but if they keep playing that stupid "game", they WILL eventually get 'lucky'.

    Don't be one of them!

    YES


    No. I did not lie.



    Bold200 when run alongside Testabolan does NOT need a SERM.

    DriverDan has posted bloodwork to prove this I believe.



    If you run Bold200 without Testabolan, there is a chance you will shut down, but it is still unlikely.


    If you stack Bold200 with a methyl or even another non-methyl, then yes, a SERM is necessary.
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    Damn it! I went to buy the rest that my cycle will require(didn't have enough money last order) and it's sold out! Is it really gone forever?
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    OK i am looking to stack my tren xtreme with something. I will do a bottle of tren at three caps a day. Would this 1,4AD be a good stack with it? And if so when should I start the 1,4AD and at what dose?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simpfan1278 View Post
    Damn it! I went to buy the rest that my cycle will require(didn't have enough money last order) and it's sold out! Is it really gone forever?

    Lets have a moment of silence for the passing of the -

    Bulk 1,4AD



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    I'm so mad! I had it in my cart, then I left to eat and since I was gone for too long my AOL logged off due to inactivity!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simpfan1278 View Post
    I'm so mad! I had it in my cart, then I left to eat and since I was gone for too long my AOL logged off due to inactivity!
    so did i, when i finally came to the decision to buy it, it was to late

    sad face
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    A little off topic, but is 4-androstene-3,17-dione the same as 1,4-androstene-3,17-dione?



    There aren't. Just when I thought I found some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadBlocK View Post
    Lets have a moment of silence for the passing of the -

    Bulk 1,4AD



    You guys crack me up.

    I'm sorry for your loss. Bulk 1,4AD is in a better place. He was too good for this world. Everybody he knew loved him. God takes the best and leaves the rest behind.

    You have my condolences.
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    Time to auction off the 500+ grams I have left
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    i have some havoc so would stacking the two be a good cycle for decent mass gains
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkretz View Post
    i have some havoc so would stacking the two be a good cycle for decent mass gains
    VERY good, IME.
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    so how was every ones results form this product
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    Quote Originally Posted by abish View Post
    so how was every ones results form this product
    i've seen mixed reviews.
    i don't think the conversion rate is as high as most expect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    i've seen mixed reviews.
    i don't think the conversion rate is as high as most expect.
    sadly agreed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    i've seen mixed reviews.
    i don't think the conversion rate is as high as most expect.
    I liked it at a gram per day, but better results could be had with less expensive products. Virtually side effect free for the first 8 weeks, however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwill View Post
    I liked it at a gram per day, but better results could be had with less expensive products. Virtually side effect free for the first 8 weeks, however.
    Most of these products have a spectrum of tradeoff in results vs. side effects. The safety profile on this one seems to be high with the results being moderate. That sounds darn good to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahright View Post
    Most of these products have a spectrum of tradeoff in results vs. side effects. The safety profile on this one seems to be high with the results being moderate. That sounds darn good to me.
    Agreed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Agreed.
    so dsade......is the bulk powder probably gone for good?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    so dsade......is the bulk powder probably gone for good?
    First and final run. This one is gone for good
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    I've been dosing 600mg ED (3x 200mg) for a little under 4 weeks. The only side effects I have noticed are very oily skin (oil slick replenishes in about 2 hours), acne and sometimes muscle cramps. The acne is being combated by cutting dairy out of my diet for the most part, 3g B-5 ED, niacin flush ED, lots of stridex pads and Benzacline(script).

    My question is should I go with 600mg ED for an additional 6 weeks or 800mg ED for another 4 weeks?
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