[quigs]

Dsade - I haven't seen this asked before, but how about carrying bulk Tauroursodeoxycholic acid (TUDCA)?

This is honestly the most promising supplement available in terms of treating oral AAS induced cholestasis. The research that backs this is very solid and I'd love to be able to get this in bulk so that I won't have to break the bank to run it at higher dosages.

[dsade]

Interesting...let me do a little research and send some price inquiries.

What is a decent dosage? Would it need to be capped?

[quigs]

Interesting...let me do a little research and send some price inquiries.

What is a decent dosage? Would it need to be capped?

Going by the studies done, I'd estimate that the dosages should be in the neighborhood of 12-15mg/kg body weight. These estimates are for UDCA however, which should have a lower bioavailability as TUDCA is more water soluble.

I'm not sure if capping it would be necessary, but it would be more convenient. 300mg caps would be a good start, IMO.

[Iron Warrior]

This is the product that Thermolife make right ? It looks good but if you guys can price it much better then count me in Caps would be my preference.

[phrost]

1500mg daily

[DougMan]

This is the product that Thermolife make right ?

Indeed.

http://www.suprememuscle.com/product...er-longer.html

Dosing per Liver longer recommendations: 2 x 250mg = 500mg /day

[phrost]

Indeed.

http://www.suprememuscle.com/product...er-longer.html

Dosing per Liver longer recommendations: 2 x 250mg = 500mg /day

That's too low, you want 1500 daily.

[quigs]

That's too low, you want 1500 daily.

Where are you getting this number?

[Alpine]

Bump

[quigs]

Interesting...let me do a little research and send some price inquiries.

What is a decent dosage? Would it need to be capped?

Any new word on this?

[dsade]

No luck from my current domestic suppliers. Foreign inquiries haven't come back yet.

[quigs]

No luck from my current domestic suppliers. Foreign inquiries haven't come back yet.

Hmm...sounds good. I really hope you'll be able to source this at some point.

Also, along the same lines I think that this would be a HUGE addition if you could accomplish it...either under RPN or as a bulk powder at nutraplanet:

Clin Toxicol (Phila). 2007 Aug 30;:1-10 [Epub ahead of print] Links
Multivitamins and phospholipids complex protects the hepatic cells from androgenic-anabolic-steroids-induced toxicity.

Pagonis TA, Koukoulis GN, Hadjichristodoulou CS, Toli PN, Angelopoulos NV.
Department of Endocrinology, Thessaly University Medical School, Larissa, Greece.
Introduction. Androgenic-anabolic-steroids (AAS)-induced hepatotoxicity typically occurs with C-17 alkylated oral agents abused by exercising individuals at clinically recommended doses. Injectable compounds appear to have the same risk for hepatotoxicity, but are applied in doses three to six times higher than clinically recommended. AAS users occasionally try to avoid the well-known hepatotoxic effects associated with the abuse of a multitude of AAS agents, by using the pharmaceutical agent compound N a phospholipid/vitamin preparation. Primary Objective. The investigation of the actual hepatoprotective effect of compound N against AAS-induced toxicity. Methodology. This was an observational cohort study of 320 athletes; 160 were AAS users and the other 160 were not abusing any substances. Of the 160 users, 44 were using AAS and compound N (group A), and 116 were using solely AAS (group B). The 160 athletes abstaining from substances abuse acted as controls (group C). All athletes were tested for alterations in serum levels of hepatic enzymes. Enzyme levels before the study's onset and after the end of the 8-week AAS regimes were compared among the three groups, in order to delineate the hepatoprotective effect of compound N. Results. Prior to our research all groups showed normal values in all enzymes except creatine kinase (CK). After the 8-week period, CK levels were slightly lower in group A, but without variation in Groups B and C; gamma-Glutamyl Transferase (gammaGT) levels remained normal. Groups A and C had no elevations in any of the enzymes, except CK, while in group B all enzymes' values were elevated above the normal range. The only factor differentiating AAS users in group A from those in group B was the use of compound N, thus the results being suggestive of the compound's detoxification effect. The severity of AAS abuse was positively associated with the degree of changes (Delta values) in all measured enzymes except gammaGT and CK. Conclusions. Previous suggestions that serum hepatic enzyme elevations in exercising AAS abusers are connected to muscle fiber damage rather than the abuse itself, are contradicted by our results. Since all AAS abusing athletes were prone to exhibit elevations in enzymes' values, the mean values of group A were to be similar to those observed in group B, exceeding normal values. The group hepatic enzyme values of group B were significantly higher than the group C (control). Notably, group A did not have any statistically significant difference in the hepatic enzyme values compared to group C. The effect of exercise on these enzymes' elevations was ruled out by the comparability of training regimens and AAS toxicity was correlated to the severity of AAS abuse.
PMID: 17852158 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

This "compound n" is really only an extract of lecithin standardized for high Polyenylphosphatidylcholine and dilinoleoylphosphatidylcholine content...along with some B vitamins. If RPN could find a way to include this, along with TUDCA in a single "liver health" product, you would have beyond a doubt the single best liver support supplement on the market.

[ralph4u2c]

Where are you getting this number?

agreed, where are you getting this number?

PLENTY of information on the positive outputs from TUDCA w/ minimal bad side effects (almost none when used in moderation *hints* only using it during anabolic steroid supplementation)

AI cycle support + TL liver longer = great "cycle support"

[bigironkiller]

i would like to see this as well. sometimes my other meds raise my liver values and soon as i take liver longer my values are pristene.

[quigs]

i would like to see this as well. sometimes my other meds raise my liver values and soon as i take liver longer my values are pristene.

Good to hear liver longer is workin for ya. What kind of other meds are you taking?

[awmcdon]

definitely interested as well

[Losso]

the other thing is called PPC,(from the study of compound N)

PPC and TUDCA in one product would rock! full stop,

the only product i know that has ppc in is hepatopro by life extention

[tgass]

That would be great to have, i am in if you can get it!

[raptor20561]

bump, any luck?

[Steveoph]

Was wondering why this thread sounded so familiar From the grave

[nattydisaster]

Isnt this the active in thermolifes liver longer?

[raptor20561]

Was wondering why this thread sounded so familiar From the grave

Well, with all the talk about milk thistle not being good on cycle I'm looking for something that will work with OT.

And yes it is that active ingredient in that, but that stuffs way expensive!

I've been looking at Synthergine, but it is also pretty expensive.

[cubby2112]

Opening the coffin again. Any chance on this in the future?

[Steveoph]

Somehow I don't feel like this would happen. It would be nice to carry a huge variety of bulk powders but it really isn't feasible.