- 04-26-2007, 03:10 PM
I tried to add 7.5 grams of Formestane to my bottle of penetrate and it didn't completely dissolve, there is A LOT left over. At first I didn't realize how much and my pump became totally jammed with formestane crystals and I had to blow them out.. Looked like at least a gram was clogged in the tube for the pump. So I boiled water to put the bottle into in effort to get the formestane into solution. After about 10 minutes it all finally dissolved and I thought it was finally over, then it cooled and recrystalized. Does Nutraplanet have an amount they recommend adding to the penetrate, because I have no more than 6.5 grams in my bottle and there's no way it's going into solution.
- 04-26-2007, 03:18 PM
I had the exact same thing happen to me except I had 10grams of form in there and I redissolved it 3 times. The 3rd time my pump broke so I've been using the other cap. I shake it super well each time and squeeze a little into my hand. Very unscientific and I can in no way determine the amount I am using because of no pump and because I don't really know how much form is left after all of the redissolving times over the stove there has been. So in the future I will be going for the capped ATD or Trione because appearantly I can't correctly dissolve supps in Penetrate.
04-26-2007, 03:24 PM
There are ways to increase the amount that will stay in suspension. I ALWAYS grind powders in a mortar and pedestal, and then predilute them in a small amount of d-Limonene, DMSO and rubbing alcohol. This works well for me.
As for measuring, rather than rely on the pump, you might consider a marked medicine dropper.
04-26-2007, 03:33 PM
I was under the impression that it would be relatively easy to dissolve formestane into the penetrate. Before I use it I shake it up and squirt some onto me. Now on the website it says one pump = .5ml but it looks like more than .5 ml when I pump it out. The pump also leaks when I shake it. I really have no idea how much I'm actually getting when I apply it. I guess next time I'll have to go with e-form or take it orally..
04-26-2007, 03:45 PM
There are other options, although I've not had problems with Penetrate. You might want to do a search under Phlojel Ultra. It works well and the website has compounding instructions.
04-26-2007, 03:59 PM
I'm pretty sure the pump gives 1 teaspoon (5 mL).
You can always try supersaturating it again. This time, let it cool for a couple minutes, and continue cooling it by running under warm water. If the solution cools too quickly, it will come out of solution again.
04-26-2007, 06:34 PM
Correct....the pumps give 5mL per pump.
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04-26-2007, 09:18 PM
Put a couple of heavy beads in the bottle and hold your thumb over the pump opening whern you shake it, and it'll mix a lot better.
04-26-2007, 10:32 PM
04-26-2007, 10:33 PM
04-27-2007, 12:22 PM
04-27-2007, 12:26 PM
Actually the amount per pump will vary on by the density of the fluid being dispensed (amoung other less affecting variables).
04-27-2007, 01:35 PM
04-27-2007, 01:52 PM
04-27-2007, 03:05 PM
That being said, we can construct the following equation:
Pressure = [Density of Fluid]*H*[gravitational constant]
Where H= [Volume per pump]/(0.25*pi*[diameter of the tube]^2). In other words, H is the height in which the fluid is travelling up the tube.
04-27-2007, 11:46 PM
So I've worked this out multiple times on different threads for 10 g of Form in one 8 oz bottle of Penetrate.
Before when we thought it was .5 ml per pump, it would take 5 pumps to get ~104 mg of Form (100 mg being the recommended dose twice a day(.
Now, 1 pump = 5 ml.
10 g Form / 8 oz Pen = 10,000 mg / 240 ml = 41.67 mg / ml
208.33 mg / 5ml = 208.33 mg / Pump
So the recommendation is a half pump twice daily (assuming you can get all 10 g to dissolve)? Maybe I should only try dissolving 5 g and just pick up another bottle of Penetrate...
As far as amount per pump, I'm not sure if you meant the amount of Form per pump or the amount of Penetrate per pump. Either way the variations in density are going to be pretty small and the air pressure surrounding is going to be pretty constant too (local air pressure doesn't fluctuate extremely at that scale). I haven't used the bottle yet, but most pumps keep fluid inside the tube no matter how much is remaining in the bottle. So you'll be pumping relatively equal amounts of everything as long as you make sure that you keep the density constant(through shaking before pumping). If you don't do that, then the next time you pump you will bring in a different density of Form/Penetrate. Then you will have a different amount of Form in the next pump.
Either way, physics or not, I think the moral of the story is make sure all of your Form is dissolved and shake often!
04-28-2007, 12:11 AM
Yeah, there is no way 10grams will dissolve, I have less than 7 in my bottle and no matter what I do it will not stay in solution. I cooled it down in warm water till it came to room temp and it still recrystalized, Ive added a few BBs to it and shook it up and that doesn't help either. It being all griity clogs the pump bottle up too. Next time the most i'll try is 5grams.
04-28-2007, 12:20 AM
04-28-2007, 12:20 AM
I'm just being a technical assh*le with the whole density bit (my apologies). But now I realize with how rough everyone's Transdermal Calculations are, you can only take one (maybe two) significant figures. But yeah, depending on what all you've dissolved in there, you could change the density enough to affect the volume being dispensed. And then if we don't assume plug flow (since plug flow is doesn't ever actually occur), calculate a Reynold's Number, and do days worth of calculations to figure out EXACTLY how much is being dispensed per pump.
04-28-2007, 02:04 AM
The first time that class was ever created for non-engineering physics majors at my school, I took it. But since it was so new and there really isn't a whole lot you can do with fluids without making ALOT of generalizations(or giant calculations), I don't think I really learned a whole lot! Oh well, it counted towards my credits. HA!
05-01-2007, 11:42 PM
05-01-2007, 11:55 PM
05-02-2007, 12:14 AM
07-03-2007, 09:38 PM
07-04-2007, 11:12 AM
07-04-2007, 10:12 PM
Plus I'm finding that the first couple pumps from the bottle do not pull up as much Form as the pumps following. The first 4 pumps or so are pretty dilute. After that, I think the correct amount of Form gets pulled through.
07-04-2007, 10:58 PM
07-05-2007, 10:55 AM
07-05-2007, 11:26 AM
07-05-2007, 11:56 AM
I'm also having much difficulty in getting the proper dose due to suspension issues. One funny note about 2 weeks ago I woke up about 3am and my knees felt like the cartilage was replaced by sandpaper, I was that dry. So the stuff works but man it is a pain in the ass (at least for me). And I was only taking Activate/Form BTW. I also used the form orally one day and also noticed a pronounced drying in my joints, especially knees.
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