NP : Questionable purity of its bulk powder line

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    NP : Questionable purity of its bulk powder line


    I recall reading that NP's bulk agmatine was tested by a thirds party and wasn't agmatine.I'm pretty sure that this was also the case with a coupe other bulk items with the nutraplanet label and I'd like some assurance that somehing has been done before I buy any powders from NP again.

    I'm interested in the following powders:

    Agmatine
    L-Carnitine L-Tartarate
    Na-R-ALA
    Banaba
    NAC
    ALCAR

    So,is there a COA available on these,I'm hoping a NP rep can post something helpful.Otherwise,I'll buy in bulk from another vendor but I wanted to order Eviscerate so I'd rather just deal with one vendor than pay shipping on two orders.

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    Hey Colin,
    That's the first I'd heard about Agmatine testing by a 3rd party. Before anybody jumps to conclusion, I would like to see this testing that you are referring to. Could you perhaps post the analysis as a pdf, or link to it?
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    First i've heard of it too.
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    This is absolutely the first I've heard of this. We provide only the highest quality bulk powders. If there were ever any question as to the purity or identity of one of our powders we would pull it from the shelf immediately. I am not sure where you read these accusations relating to any of our bulk products, but those are some very inflammatory statements to be making in such a casual manner.
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    Ive used nutra's bulk powders for years and have had great success with all of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    I recall reading that NP's bulk agmatine was tested by a thirds party and wasn't agmatine.I'm pretty sure that this was also the case with a coupe other bulk items with the nutraplanet label....
    Do you have any evidence of this negative Agmatine test? NP, as far as I know has impeccable purity standards. Please share your source.
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    See post 8.

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...pic=40722&st=0

    I remember another thread about NP's PLCAR flunking a tes with some3 reputable posters posting.

    FTR,I have no ties to any supplement companies/outlets.
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    Oh please....just because some random troll decides to turn against NP doesn't mean anything. Gimme a break...



    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    See post 8.

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...pic=40722&st=0

    I remember another thread about NP's PLCAR flunking a tes with some3 reputable posters posting.

    FTR,I have no ties to any supplement companies/outlets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    See post 8.
    The AI mentioned in that post was a capped product, not a NP bulk powder.
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    Ersatz posted that claim and he is registered here and, to my knowledge, has not stated any such proof on this site. Sounds more like a bunch of backdoor bull**** to me.
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    I sent a PM to both Skigazzi and Ersatz regarding their posts in the linked thread.

    Ersatz has been posting on MnM for a long time and never displayed troll-ish behavior,FWIW.His post sounds pretty convincing.

    [quote name='ersatz' date='Dec 24 2009, 10:40 PM' post='581963']
    Are there any sources that have a 3rd party assay? Nutraplanet has a past history of QC and if they did conduct independent assays as they claim these issues would not have occurred. In every instance it was consumer inquiry that lead to suspicion of "bunk" products and then subsequent testing confirmed such. I recall their beta-alanine being taurine and and an AI being yohimbine to which they offered restitution. A few other incidences they offered credit for those who issued complaints. As such I no longer trust their house brand nor anyone's who lacks an independent assay.
    [/quote]
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    Colin, I've read many of your posts on other boards and know you're a smart guy, but if you're going to bring up an accusation that our agmatine was 3rd party tested and failed, this is a claim that needs to be substantiated by yourself. As many NP staff have stated, we aren't aware of any such issues with our agmatine and stand behind the quality of our products.
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    WTF?
    If you're going to call it, prove it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    I sent a PM to both Skigazzi and Ersatz regarding their posts in the linked thread.

    Ersatz has been posting on MnM for a long time and never displayed troll-ish behavior,FWIW.His post sounds pretty convincing.

    [quote name='ersatz' date='Dec 24 2009, 10:40 PM' post='581963']
    Are there any sources that have a 3rd party assay? Nutraplanet has a past history of QC and if they did conduct independent assays as they claim these issues would not have occurred. In every instance it was consumer inquiry that lead to suspicion of "bunk" products and then subsequent testing confirmed such. I recall their beta-alanine being taurine and and an AI being yohimbine to which they offered restitution. A few other incidences they offered credit for those who issued complaints. As such I no longer trust their house brand nor anyone's who lacks an independent assay.
    [/QUOTE]

    Rather than spend time trying to dig up bull**** information on a product that NP no longer even caries, how about you ship the products that you owe me from over a year ago?
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    To the OP - if your only evidence is some heresay go back to your M & M forums
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    nutraplanet is innocent until proven guilty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigs View Post

    Rather than spend time trying to dig up bull**** information on a product that NP no longer even caries, how about you ship the products that you owe me from over a year ago?
    Owned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    Colin, I've read many of your posts on other boards and know you're a smart guy, but if you're going to bring up an accusation that our agmatine was 3rd party tested and failed, this is a claim that needs to be substantiated by yourself. As many NP staff have stated, we aren't aware of any such issues with our agmatine and stand behind the quality of our products.
    Good post! With all due respect, Skigazzi's and Ersatz's posts, and therefore, Colin's claim, lack any factual support, and should be dismissed as hearsay evidence in the absence of any legitimate, verifiable information, such as the result of an appropriate third-party test. Consequently, to avoid undue damage to NutraPlanet's fine reputation, this thread should be deleted (not just closed), and the OP should start a new thread when he can support his claim with solid facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk View Post
    Ersatz posted that claim and he is registered here and, to my knowledge, has not stated any such proof on this site. Sounds more like a bunch of backdoor bull**** to me.
    agree 100%
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Good post! With all due respect, Skigazzi's and Ersatz's posts, and therefore, Colin's claim, lack any factual support, and should be dismissed as hearsay evidence in the absence of any legitimate, verifiable information, such as the result of an appropriate third-party test. Consequently, to avoid undue damage to NutraPlanet's fine reputation, this thread should be deleted (not just closed), and the OP should start a new thread when he can support his claim with solid facts.
    More than NP's reputation is at stake,the consumer not getting what they paid for takes precedence IMHO.

    I can't find anything WRT agmatine,other than my memory of reading asuch posts on MnM.

    Skigazzi replied to my PM and NP did in fact screw up WRT PLCAR:

    Hey Colin,

    I have NAC from them at the moment, and from everything I know of NAC and how it should look / smell / taste, its NAC.

    I am still a bit gun shy on the 'carnitines' though, cause they all taste about the same...but that one time I bought PLCAR I know 100% it was B5, cause I had B5 from them already (cause they shipped it to me in error on a past order..and its nothing like the 'alcars/plcars' in taste)

    But...there is no reason to trust a capped product anymore than a bulk one since at least in a bulk product its out there to be seen / tasted etc....

    So, short answer, I'd trust them for NAC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    agree 100%

    I'm not convinced that is the case.Ersatz has nothing to gain.

    At any rate,surely NP should have some sort of testing done on the bulk products it purchases.I assume that you're not just taking your Chinese suppliers on their word of legit powders?


    As someone who who has spent over a grand at NP over the years,I humbly request that COA's be posted within this thread for the following bulk items:

    Agmatine
    L-Carnitine L-Tartarate
    Na-R-ALA
    Banaba
    NAC
    ALCAR

    I posted up the same request on the 22nd and haven't received any sort of a response from a NP rep.That doesn;t exactly install confidence in your consumer base.

    An NP rep that takes the time to post "agreed 100%" in this thread but won't dignify my question with a response???

    What are you representing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    Colin, I've read many of your posts on other boards and know you're a smart guy, but if you're going to bring up an accusation that our agmatine was 3rd party tested and failed, this is a claim that needs to be substantiated by yourself. As many NP staff have stated, we aren't aware of any such issues with our agmatine and stand behind the quality of our products.
    I cannot find anything on agmatine.

    But if you all stand behind your products,then why not just post up some COA's?

    I've spent a lot of money at NP over the years,this is more than a fair request.I'll gladly continue to spend money at NP if I can be assured that I'll get what I pay for...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    More than NP's reputation is at stake,the consumer not getting what they paid for takes precedence IMHO.
    How could you be so sure the consumer is not getting what he paid for? As far as I can see, without any proof, this is reckless and damaging speculation.

    I can't find anything WRT agmatine,other than my memory of reading asuch posts on MnM.
    That is exactly the problem! To make the type of bold statement as in your opening post, without any legitimate, verifiable proof, is, in my opinion, completely unacceptable. Here is an excerpt from your first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin
    I recall reading that NP's bulk agmatine was tested by a thirds party and wasn't agmatine.I'm pretty sure that this was also the case with a coupe other bulk items with the nutraplanet label

    Skigazzi replied to my PM and NP did in fact screw up WRT PLCAR:
    With all due respect, "look/smell/taste" are hardly objective, foolproof criteria to determine the legitimacy of a compound. Besides, PLCAR and LCLT are from RPN, not NutraPlanet.
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    Colin....

    With all due respect, you are bringing nothing to the table in terms of proof of any mislabeled or misrepresented products. Please do that before making any salacious claims. Thank you for the professional courtesy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    I cannot find anything on agmatine.

    But if you all stand behind your products,then why not just post up some COA's?

    I've spent a lot of money at NP over the years,this is more than a fair request.I'll gladly continue to spend money at NP if I can be assured that I'll get what I pay for...
    First let me say I love NP just as much as the next guy and I've spend (and continue to spend) a lot of money with them. So I have no malice towards them, other than looking out for myself (the consumer), who buys bulk powders from NP.

    While there may be no real substantiated basis for questioning the purity of NP bulk powders.. Colin is right in this point at least.

    Disproving any accusations is quite simple, as he says, simply put up some COA's, and there will be no more questions left unanswered. I do not think this is an outrageous request, yet it would go far in demonstrating the quality/purity of product(s). NP have nothing to lose, right?
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    Colin,

    We no longer stock L-Tartarate. We purchase the Na-R-ALA directly from Geronova.

    I am sure our web guy can get you COA's on the other items, but it will not be instantaneous.
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    Wow, I do not see all the problem here.

    NP has sold past powders that were not right, resulting in something like yohimbine if I remember correctly.

    Why get all forward for someone asking for a COA in an unregulated industry? You all can shut him up very quickly if testing is being performed. Just do it and move on.

    So much drama.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Wow, I do not see all the problem here.

    NP has sold past powders that were not right, resulting in something like yohimbine if I remember correctly.

    Why get all forward for someone asking for a COA in an unregulated industry? You all can shut him up very quickly if testing is being performed. Just do it and move on.

    So much drama.
    Agreed, I bought ATD over 1 year ago from NP and it turned out to be nothing more than caffeine and fillers. NP contacted me and gave me a credit at their store, but my trust in them hasn't been the same since. I would like to see COA's on all their bulk products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by custom View Post

    We no longer stock L-Tartarate. We purchase the Na-R-ALA directly from Geronova.
    Yeah, I wouldn't be overly concerned about the Na-R-ALA... Geronova does a patent on it, so anyone selling it right now that isnt from them might be putting themselves in a situation... I think highly of NP, and doubt they would place themselves in that type of situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim1985 View Post
    Agreed, I bought ATD over 1 year ago from NP and it turned out to be nothing more than caffeine and fillers. NP contacted me and gave me a credit at their store, but my trust in them hasn't been the same since. I would like to see COA's on all their bulk products.
    So now NP is untrustworthy? Surely you can see how some may take offense to this.

    Expecting a retailer to regulate an unregulated industry and then blaming them for the discrepancy?

    Would you like to offset the cost incurred to assure this is done on ALL products? Will you then complain that there is a cost hike?

    Sorry, but the tones of some people's posts are more provocative than inquisitive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    So now NP is untrustworthy? Surely you can see how some may take offense to this.

    Expecting a retailer to regulate an unregulated industry and then blaming them for the discrepancy?

    Would you like to offset the cost incurred to assure this is done on ALL products? Will you then complain that there is a cost hike?

    Sorry, but the tones of some people's posts are more provocative than inquisitive.
    Well said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    So now NP is untrustworthy? Surely you can see how some may take offense to this.

    Expecting a retailer to regulate an unregulated industry and then blaming them for the discrepancy?

    Would you like to offset the cost incurred to assure this is done on ALL products? Will you then complain that there is a cost hike?

    Sorry, but the tones of some people's posts are more provocative than inquisitive.
    I can agree here, but who gets the blame? The china supplier, or the buyer that then slapped their own company logo on it, and sold it as is?

    Personally I would greatly appreciate a cost hike myself to know that what is going down the hatch is legit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    So now NP is untrustworthy? Surely you can see how some may take offense to this.

    Expecting a retailer to regulate an unregulated industry and then blaming them for the discrepancy?

    Would you like to offset the cost incurred to assure this is done on ALL products? Will you then complain that there is a cost hike?

    Sorry, but the tones of some people's posts are more provocative than inquisitive.
    I didn't say NP is untrustworthy, I said my trust in them isn't what it used to be. I didn't question the legitimacy of NP's bulk products at all until the ATD fiasco. I have purchased bulk products from NP since then, but I will always have the memory of the bunk ATD in the back of my mind.

    I apologize if my statement seemed inflammatory, it was not meant to be, but you have to understand where Im coming from. I paid for product X but received product Y with a product X label on it, I know things happen and NP did make things right. I would also be willing to pay more to offset the cost difference, I wouldn't complain, I would thank NP for the reassurance that Im getting what I pay for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I can agree here, but who gets the blame? The china supplier, or the buyer that then slapped their own company logo on it, and sold it as is?

    Personally I would greatly appreciate a cost hike myself to know that what is going down the hatch is legit.
    Isn't this going to happen regardless after June 30th? GMP compliance.

    http://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/guidanc...st/default.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinc View Post
    Isn't this going to happen regardless after June 30th? GMP compliance.

    http://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/guidanc...st/default.htm
    If I remember correctly, GMP only impacts the handling of product. I am pretty sure GMP is agnostic to the fact of powder testing. But GMP is a great step forward, helps alleviate product contamination.

    BTW NP... how will the GMP requirement affect your bulk sales? Is NP getting GMP certified to weigh and portion out their bulks?
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    Hey, I see my 'name'....

    I think my PM posted here says what I intended it to...basically I trust NP's bulk powders, but Im 100% sure I didn't get PLCAR back when I ordered it (but that was like 2-3 years ago). PLCAR should not taste and behave like B5 in water (PLCAR is highly soluble, B5 turns to glue, my "PLCAR" turned to glue)..but thats water under the bridge now for me. It was NP brand at that time...for all I know someone slapped the sticker on the wrong container by mistake, but anyway...Dsade really did try his best to help me out on this, but my container ended up getting trashed.

    I have ordered herbal powders since and have no reason to think I have received anything of sub par quality.

    (Regarding the 'sniff / taste' test, yea its not science, but when you know what a powder should look / taste / smell / mix like, and you get something that either looks off, smells off, or has solubility behaviors that don't jive, at least it can give you an idea what you are dealing with.)

    I hope this makes as much sense as I wanted it to...I've only had that one issue ever and it wasn't a concern to me anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    If I remember correctly, GMP only impacts the handling of product. I am pretty sure GMP is agnostic to the fact of powder testing. But GMP is a great step forward, helps alleviate product contamination.

    BTW NP... how will the GMP requirement affect your bulk sales? Is NP getting GMP certified to weigh and portion out their bulks?
    Yes, we are undergoing GMP evaluation.

    Everything must be tested before manufacturing and strict records must be kept as far as the end product and quality control. It is a huge undertaking.
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    While I don't intend to sound heavy handed, I do want to say that making unsubstantiated accusations of mislabeled products without proof is extremely irresponsible and I won't give merit to those accusations by responding to them. In the extremely rare case of an error we remedied the situation as soon as we became aware.

    As for some of the other statements made in this thread, I would like to take a minute and address them. It is certainly within your rights to want to see COA's on our products. I can say that we are working to provide you with the most up to date COA's possible. We do not want to be like others and post our COA's from over a year ago. We also want our testing to go above and beyond the testing which is performed by other companies. There are some logistical and IT issues that we need to work out before we can do that, but we are currently getting those ironed out.

    As many of you know, every company regardless of size will fall under the FDA's GMP guidelines at the end of June. One of our competitors has been so bold as to hint that Nutraplanet will no longer be in the bulk business after this date. Let me reassure you that nothing could be farther from the truth. In fact, in regards to our processes, there is very little that we will have to change in order to remain compliant. The vast majority of the changes will be in how we document our procedures as we have always maintained a very high standard. As a result, at this point I don't foresee any noticeable price increases. (If any at all.)

    Again, let me reassure all of you that our customers are at the very top of our list of priorities as we constantly strive to bring the highest quality products to the market.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Wow, I do not see all the problem here.

    NP has sold past powders that were not right, resulting in something like yohimbine if I remember correctly.

    Why get all forward for someone asking for a COA in an unregulated industry? You all can shut him up very quickly if testing is being performed. Just do it and move on.


    So much drama.
    DA, I think the reason you may take some of our remarks as `forward`is due to the fact that the OP accused NP`s Agmatine of failing a 3rd party test and subsequently called into question the entire integrity of our bulk line, without ever offering evidence of his accusation. It`s like me accusing a natural BBer of doping and claiming that I had read the results ``somewhere`` and never showing the results.


    John`s above post addressed Nutraplanet`s take on the GMP transition. We are working on get the most recent CoAs for the customers. Customer safety is not something we take lightly, and we work hard to bring you quality products at reasonable prices. We will start a clean new thread with CoA updates, and will also provide what information we can about our GMP products and procedures.

    This thread is closed; if anybody has any outstanding issues or further questions, feel free to take them up with me via PM.
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    Jayhawkk's Avatar
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    5'8"  230 lbs.
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    Dec 2003
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    Well, now it's closed :P
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