Hello:

I've just bought some piracetam, and reading around on the internet, it seems that piracetam is often advised to be taken with choline citrate or 'AGC'.

a) Is this really necessary? I don't want to keep buying these gross tasting products that I have to fit into my daily regimen.
b) Do I have to use choline citrate or AGC, or can I just eat an egg? What about lecithin (although I would rather just eat an egg)?
c) Can any choline source be adequately converted into the type useful in conjunction with piracetam?

Thanks.

To get the most of Piracetam you'll need some form of choline. It increases its effectiveness and you won't get any bad headaches (which happens if you don't take choline)

I was using lecithin and eating eggs but recently switched to Alpha GPC and noticed a huge difference!! My mood instantly improved and I don't get mentally tired like I used to.

If you're on a budget - get triple strenght lecithin from NOW and if you can afford it - buy some alpha GPC

wish Nutraplanet started carrying alpha GPC in bulk....

Good luck!

Thanks.

There are other sources of choline too, one being DMAE. AGPC is kinda pricey

Choline Citrate by Primaforce 500 grams, ONLY $19.99!!!

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/p...500-grams.html

Choline citrate or bitartrate are plenty fine for this use.

So what are the benefits of the choline piracetam stack?

Originally Posted by bmw8591

So what are the benefits of the choline piracetam stack?

In my experience, rapidity of thought. Enhanced creativity, mixed with an enhanced analytical side ( a bolstering of both, rather than enhancement of one hemisphere at the expense of the other), improved memory formation and recall, and - depening on how you interepret the above - increased motivation to work and create.

Piracetam & Choline Citrate Stack (1 + 1 Units) ONLY $45.99!!!




Primaforce Piracetam 500 grams

* SUPPORT MEMORY AND CONCENTRATION
* SUPPORT OVERALL WELL BEING
* SUPPORT REDUCED STRESS AND FATIGUE

(2-oxo-1-pyrrolidine acetamide) is a natural derivative of GABA (Gamma Amino Butyric Acid) and is lab tested for potency and purity. Piracetam supports memory and concentration, overall well-being, cardiovascular health, and helps reduce stress and fatigue.

Primaforce Choline Citrate 500 grams

* Support Focus and Concentration
* Support Healthy Mood

Primafoce Choline Citrate is lab tested for potency and purity.

i just use lecithin, works for me

Originally Posted by login211

i just use lecithin, works for me

Just received my bulk piracetam from NP. I have lecithin caps 1200 mgs. Will this work? If yes, how many mgs / day of lecithin do I take?

Originally Posted by luclyluciano

Just received my bulk piracetam from NP. I have lecithin caps 1200 mgs. Will this work? If yes, how many mgs / day of lecithin do I take?

You should take 4-6 per day per 2-3 grams of Piracetam.

Originally Posted by dsade

You should take 4-6 per day per 2-3 grams of Piracetam.

Thanks dsade....I assume you mean 4-6 caps. How does regular lecithin compare with alpha-GPC. Some say they noticed a big difference over reular lecithin or choline.

Originally Posted by luclyluciano

Thanks dsade....I assume you mean 4-6 caps. How does regular lecithin compare with alpha-GPC. Some say they noticed a big difference over reular lecithin or choline.

Alpha-GPC is amazing...very potent with effects beyond simply a source of choline. It has an energizing effect, as well as increasing focus.

I ended up including it in my intraworkout formula, and was VERY pleased with this workout enhancement/Recovery aspect.

I agree that Choline + Piracetam is necessary, however when I dose them together I get nauseus- so I take my Piracetam in the morning, and Alpha-GPC later in the day.

Originally Posted by dsade

Alpha-GPC is amazing...very potent with effects beyond simply a source of choline. It has an energizing effect, as well as increasing focus.

I ended up including it in my intraworkout formula, and was VERY pleased with this workout enhancement/Recovery aspect.

That Alpha gpc is expensive stuff! 150 grams at $66! If I dosed at 6 grams per day that is 25 days per container.....is this right?

You don't need to take that much!!! if you decide to go with alpha GPC 500mg/day is plenty! It's the lecithin that you need 6 grams/day but alpha GPC is much stronger.

Originally Posted by rottie76

You don't need to take that much!!! if you decide to go with alpha GPC 500mg/day is plenty! It's the lecithin that you need 6 grams/day but alpha GPC is much stronger.

Correct.

I reserve Alpha-GPC for my intraworkout drink.

Originally Posted by rottie76

You don't need to take that much!!! if you decide to go with alpha GPC 500mg/day is plenty! It's the lecithin that you need 6 grams/day but alpha GPC is much stronger.

Good to know! What's the differrence between Alpha GPC and Choline Citrate. On BN there are mixed reviews which is better.

Anyone know if Piracetam works best with food or empty stomach.

I would have to say skip the piracetam and go with aniracetam. I got some aniracetam to take with some of the Slim Xtreme that I got (because they took it out of the formula with the later runs) and found that on it's own it does have some very nice anxiolytic effects. Talkative, social, etc.. and great cognitive effects. Never took choline with it and never had any problems..

I will say that it is night and day different between piracetam and aniracetam.

Aniracetam is not too expensive either..

My 2 cents

K-

Originally Posted by bubsnt3

I would have to say skip the piracetam and go with aniracetam. I got some aniracetam to take with some of the Slim Xtreme that I got (because they took it out of the formula with the later runs) and found that on it's own it does have some very nice anxiolytic effects. Talkative, social, etc.. and great cognitive effects. Never took choline with it and never had any problems..

I will say that it is night and day different between piracetam and aniracetam.

Aniracetam is not too expensive either..

My 2 cents

K-

I smell a new product were going to have to request! Is Aniracetam a natural chemical like piracetam, or something people made? Isn't it a altered version of a natural supplement, that way that creatine ethyl ester isn't quite natural?

Originally Posted by kingdong

I smell a new product were going to have to request! Is Aniracetam a natural chemical like piracetam, or something people made? Isn't it a altered version of a natural supplement, that way that creatine ethyl ester isn't quite natural?

It is part of the racetam family only much more potent than piracetam. Everyone used to make it including primaforce, 1-fast 400, etc.. but they all quit.. Probably the fact that it is a prescription drug in europe had something to do with it?? It is legal to sell and posses so I am not sure of the exact reason everyone quit selling it.. You can still find it pretty cheap though, NRx is a good brand of it. It would be nice if nutra would pick up the bulk powder..

Here is the wikipedia link..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniracetam

Excerpt
Aniracetam (Draganon, Sarpul, Ampamet) is a nootropic compound of the racetam family purported to be considerably more potent than piracetam. It is lipid soluble and has possible cognition enhancing effects. It has been tested in animals extensively, Alzheimer's patients and temporarily-impaired healthy subjects. It has shown potential as an anxiolytic in three clinical animal models. Sold in the US as a dietary supplement while used in Europe as a prescription drug.



K-

You just take more piracetam. No-one in the noots game is that fused with aniracetam. There is a small band of dedicated followers but not many.

GPC choline - not at all clear. It might get knocked back to straight choline.

CDP choline is the one to use, but its expensive. This does have scientific backing and in the noots game its a massive following. I forget its exact long term benefit but its associated with dopamine, something increasing dopamine receptor density. I can't remember exactly.

Aniracetam - don't think more $$ is more effective. Weight for weight yes, but not efficacy for efficacy.

Anyway last post for this year. See ya later...

Originally Posted by matthias7

You just take more piracetam. No-one in the noots game is that fused with aniracetam. There is a small band of dedicated followers but not many.

GPC choline - not at all clear. It might get knocked back to straight choline.

CDP choline is the one to use, but its expensive. This does have scientific backing and in the noots game its a massive following. I forget its exact long term benefit but its associated with dopamine, something increasing dopamine receptor density. I can't remember exactly.

Aniracetam - don't think more $$ is more effective. Weight for weight yes, but not efficacy for efficacy.

Anyway last post for this year. See ya later...

I disagree. There is a reason that it is a prescription drug in europe. Also the anxiolytic properties of aniracetam have been shown in 3 scientific tests where those same properties have not been demonstrated for piracetam. There is a reason that AX included aniracetam instead of piracetam..
There is no way to get all of the effects of aniracetam from piracetam.. Maybe the memory/cognition effects at a higher dose of piracetam but that is not the only reason that aniracetam is better.. It has some similar properties but is a different chemical..


K-

All you have done is summarize the wiki.

I found zip.

Personal experience doesn't chime with the wiki. It ain't the word of God.

Originally Posted by matthias7

All you have done is summarize the wiki.

I found zip.

Personal experience doesn't chime with the wiki. It ain't the word of God.

wow.. ok..

Funny, they tested it against diazepam... and aniracetam was effective in more areas..

Aniracetam also showed anti-anxiety effects in two other anxiety models (elevated plus-maze and conditioned fear stress tests), whereas diazepam as a positive control was anxiolytic only in the elevated plus-maze and social interaction tests

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...459c53910a42b3


In a social interaction test in which all classes (serotonergic, cholinergic and dopaminergic) of compounds were effective, aniracetam (10-100 mg/kg) increased total social interaction scores (time and frequency), and the increase in the total social interaction time mainly reflected an increase in trunk sniffing and following.

Conclusion
These results indicate that aniracetam possesses a wide range of anxiolytic properties, which may be mediated by an interaction between cholinergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic systems. Thus, our findings suggest the potential usefulness of aniracetam against various types of anxiety-related disorders and social failure/impairments.


---------------------


User experiences
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=64904
and
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=55576

More on erowid, here is just some for example..

Plus my personal experience and other user experience (references above).. Let's see... User experiece, backed by science.. Ok.. Nevermind.. I am sure you are right.


And this from my original statement
There is a reason that AX included aniracetam instead of piracetam..
There is no way to get all of the effects of aniracetam from piracetam.. Maybe the memory/cognition effects at a higher dose of piracetam but that is not the only reason that aniracetam is better..

K-

Add to this "in mice!!!"

Yeah if I ever get mice as pets and they look nervous I'll give 'em aniracetam. It is very reassuring to know.

If test results translated the FDA would ban Tribulus for test boosting.

What I am certain of is that in noots some like it alot, but the majority go with piracetam and pay the (considerable) extra for citicoline.

Originally Posted by matthias7

Add to this "in mice!!!"

Yeah if I ever get mice as pets and they look nervous I'll give 'em aniracetam. It is very reassuring to know.

If test results translated the FDA would ban Tribulus for test boosting.

What I am certain of is that in noots some like it alot, but the majority go with piracetam and pay the (considerable) extra for citicoline.

All Med tests start out in mice.. Heck the steroid A:A ratios that everyone quotes so much are done in the same fashion.. Maybe you should also argue that those results have no relation to the behavior in humans. As are a lot of the creatine studies.. Must I go pull all of the medical standards for testing for you also?? What about the physiological differences and similarities between mice and humans? Why is it we test on them again?? Why did the diazepam have the same anxiolytic effects on the mice as humans? but we cannot measure aniracetams anxiolytic properties in the same fashion...

Amphetamine testing started there.. Now are we going to say that doesn't work as the literature indicated. I think that these scientist are smart enough to know how to do their job.
Amphet..
http://www.springerlink.com/content/h0g2625110606483/

Heck this amphetamine study done on mice concluded the receptor that caused the locamotor and DA release properties for amphetamine.. to then investigate a therapy for psychostimulant addiction.. ALL FROM MICE!! Imagine that, they can even pick out the receptor that amphetamine is using and pick out the existence of a coupling between noradrenergic and dopaminergic neurons.. Maybe you should give them a call and inform them they do not know what they are talking about or how to do there testing.. Would probably help them in the future....

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/22/21/9150
In conclusion, we show here that, in nucleus accumbens of mice lacking 1b-adrenergic receptors, basal DA release is lower than in WT littermates and D-amphetamine fails to increase extracellular DA levels. This is probably linked with D-amphetamine-induced blunted locomotor responses in 1bAR-KO mice and further confirms the existence of a powerful coupling between noradrenergic and dopaminergic neurons. In addition to potential consequences in the field of therapy of addiction to psychostimulants, this coupling may have some implications in mental diseases such as psychosis. Indeed, it is worth to recall that most antipsychotic compounds possess anti-1-adrenergic properties.





What you are saying is that you can come to a better conclusion with the test results than the scientist did.. That is simply rediculous. Get a PHD and do some of these tests.. then come talk to me.. I have bolded the conclusion by CNS Supporting Laboratory, Nippon Roche Research Center and I think I will take there conclusion over yours.. As would anyone else with a brain.. I have also posted numerous user reports besides my own.

These results indicate that aniracetam possesses a wide range of anxiolytic properties, which may be mediated by an interaction between cholinergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic systems. Thus, our findings suggest the potential usefulness of aniracetam against various types of anxiety-related disorders and social failure/impairments.


Say what you want I have posted proof and reviews and you have nothing but what you are saying.. Would be nice if you had some science rather than opinion also (Like the mouse thing.. where is the science indicating that the anxiolytic properties of a compound differ between mice and humans?? Or yeah.. I fogot, you were just talking again.. The same report rebuffs that.. The diazepam had anxiolytic effects on mice and humans). Start posting some backing to anything you are saying. What supp companies do I do not know.. I only know what aniracetam does. Maybe the FDA does not like them putting it in there because AX, if I remember correctly, said that they removed it so that their product did not draw the attention of the FDA.. Don't know how the supp companies come up with their formulas, kind of surprises me that adrafinil has not popped up in any supps.. Maybe legalities, maybe not natural? Would have far greater stim poperties than alot of the stuff out there now..
I do however know aniracetam, it's behavior, and how it acts and feels as a supplement..



K-

Lab animals have a poor track record in supplements. Again the phytotestosterone all give testosterone boosts in lab animals but not humans.

Secondly - human genetic variation. Piracetam is a very widely used noot. No one has actually demonstrated it works. It works for sleep apnea but results are so variable for cognitive enhancement in humans no one can understand it. Obviously there are theories. Basically there ain't a magic noot. A single mouse model against the widespread opinions of experianced nootropic users.

Reality check.

Originally Posted by bubsnt3

Get a PHD and do some of these tests..

from Oxbridge (UK Ivy league) and you?

I will delete this later - I don't give personal details out. This is the exception.