I didn't get much from them. (its been a while since I tried them)I tried a months worth with joint pain. then again I wasn't taking it easy on the weights which I should have been at the time. i was expecting them to heal my joints , which is my understanding the lower cissus is bests for joints and higher is best for cortisol control; although, both are good for both things to some degree. It was my fault for not taking it easy on me hjoints and you cant expect a supplement to relieve all your joint pain.