[Big L]

Hi,
I just purchased a couple containers of Poseidon and started using this past week. I happened to be flipping through an old issue of Men's Journal (July 2007) and there's a little blurb in the Health & Fitness section suggesting Niacin is not so good for you.

"There are stoners in this world who believe megadoses of niacin can foil drug tests. But as a recent University of Pennsylvania study shows, they can cause near-fatal liver poisoning. Lesson: Say no to niacin."

There's no indication what a how much a "megadose" is. With poseidon, I'm getting 450mg 3 days per week and 150-225mg the other 4 days.

I also did a quick search and found this on a website:

"More serious side effects include liver toxicity, worsening of stomach ulcers, altered blood sugar or insulin levels or uric acid concentrations. Numerous case reports describe liver toxicity, including increased liver enzyme levels in the blood, skin yellowing (jaundice), fluid in the abdomen (ascites), or liver failure. Monitoring of liver blood tests while using niacin is recommended. While slow-release niacin products may have less skin flushing than regular release niacin preparations, they may worsen stomach and liver side effects. High doses of niacin may also cause low blood pressure."

* I tried to copy the URL, but I haven't reached 20 posts yet so it won't let me. It's the 3rd result from a search of Niacin on mayoclinic.com.

This is just from one of the first results a google search returned. Could somebody comment on this and what kind of doses might be considered toxic to the liver?

Thanks

[prld2gr8ns]

Originally Posted by Big L

Hi,
I just purchased a couple containers of Poseidon and started using this past week. I happened to be flipping through an old issue of Men's Journal (July 2007) and there's a little blurb in the Health & Fitness section suggesting Niacin is not so good for you.

"There are stoners in this world who believe megadoses of niacin can foil drug tests. But as a recent University of Pennsylvania study shows, they can cause near-fatal liver poisoning. Lesson: Say no to niacin."

There's no indication what a how much a "megadose" is. With poseidon, I'm getting 450mg 3 days per week and 150-225mg the other 4 days.

I also did a quick search and found this on a website:

"More serious side effects include liver toxicity, worsening of stomach ulcers, altered blood sugar or insulin levels or uric acid concentrations. Numerous case reports describe liver toxicity, including increased liver enzyme levels in the blood, skin yellowing (jaundice), fluid in the abdomen (ascites), or liver failure. Monitoring of liver blood tests while using niacin is recommended. While slow-release niacin products may have less skin flushing than regular release niacin preparations, they may worsen stomach and liver side effects. High doses of niacin may also cause low blood pressure."

* I tried to copy the URL, but I haven't reached 20 posts yet so it won't let me. It's the 3rd result from a search of Niacin on mayoclinic.com.

This is just from one of the first results a google search returned. Could somebody comment on this and what kind of doses might be considered toxic to the liver?

Thanks

The toxicity reported is form the sustain released niacin products used in testing. Keep in mind that their are two primary different forms of niacin... niacinamide, and nicotinic acid. Nicotinic acid(the form in Poseidon), is fast absorbing and fast acting with short duration and clearance time in the liver. SEVERAL clinical published reports have been conducted with the use of nicotinic acid and it's abiltiy to substantially lower plasma LDL(bad cholesterol) levels while simultaneously increasing HDL(good cholesterol) with no effects on liver function. In fact a primary form of treating dyslipidemial and hypercholesterolemia is with the duel use of statin/nicotinic acid treatments, as the effectiveness is that good.

The toxicity reports stem from clinical work done with niacin bound to specific binders to prolong the niacin duration in the liver and subsequently decrease the speed with which it is released into the bloodstream in hopes of curtailing the obvious flush side effects most users where expereincing with normal niacin intake. The presence of these binders and the prolong duration of stay in the liver resulted in elevated liver function test for individual patient taking high doses of the sustained release(clearance time 6-8hrs) product(see bold text in quote). As of present there is now a "prolonged" release prescription niacin product(clearance time 2-4hrs) that has shown good results in decreasing potential sides with niacin use while not simultaneously raising LFTs. Nicotinic acid(Poseidon) has a clearance time of 15-30minutes(it gets in and gets out) and the trials where dosing 2gr+ per day with no adverse effects what so ever other then severe flushing and some reported GI upset.

The amount and type of niacin present in Poseidon is perfectly safe to take at the reccomended servings.

[thesinner]

studies on liver toxicity were with sustained release niacin, and there's been a lot of criticism on how they were done to obtain these results.

[Big L]

Thanks for the detailed response. I've been very pleased with Poseidon in the short time I've been taking it, but stumbling upon this worried me a little bit. Glad you could both clear this up.

[Jayhawkk]

My liver hasn't shown any stress on it but obviously that is just one person's statement.

[thesinner]

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

My liver hasn't shown any stress on it but obviously that is just one person's statement.

What liver?

[matthew76]

Anything can get dirt thrown on it... All I know is how Great I feel with POSEIDON, so if my liver's in distress, it sure feels good! LoL!

[yeahright]

The "megadoses" people were taking to try and fool drug tests were in the multiple gram range...and yeah, I would imagine that this would cause liver damage.

[prld2gr8ns]

Originally Posted by Big L

Thanks for the detailed response. I've been very pleased with Poseidon in the short time I've been taking it, but stumbling upon this worried me a little bit. Glad you could both clear this up.

No problem my friend.

[workin2005]

Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns

The toxicity reported is form the sustain released niacin products used in testing. Keep in mind that their are two primary different forms of niacin... niacinamide, and nicotinic acid. Nicotinic acid(the form in Poseidon), is fast absorbing and fast acting with short duration and clearance time in the liver. SEVERAL clinical published reports have been conducted with the use of nicotinic acid and it's abiltiy to substantially lower plasma LDL(bad cholesterol) levels while simultaneously increasing HDL(good cholesterol) with no effects on liver function. In fact a primary form of treating dyslipidemial and hypercholesterolemia is with the duel use of statin/nicotinic acid treatments, as the effectiveness is that good.

The toxicity reports stem from clinical work done with niacin bound to specific binders to prolong the niacin duration in the liver and subsequently decrease the speed with which it is released into the bloodstream in hopes of curtailing the obvious flush side effects most users where expereincing with normal niacin intake. The presence of these binders and the prolong duration of stay in the liver resulted in elevated liver function test for individual patient taking high doses of the sustained release(clearance time 6-8hrs) product(see bold text in quote). As of present there is now a "prolonged" release prescription niacin product(clearance time 2-4hrs) that has shown good results in decreasing potential sides with niacin use while not simultaneously raising LFTs. Nicotinic acid(Poseidon) has a clearance time of 15-30minutes(it gets in and gets out) and the trials where dosing 2gr+ per day with no adverse effects what so ever other then severe flushing and some reported GI upset.

The amount and type of niacin present in Poseidon is perfectly safe to take at the reccomended servings.

Workin