[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by teribleturtle

My take on this is, if you have never lived a day of your life in the ghetto or as a minority then you really do not know what it is like to fail or succeed in such an environment. Do not take this as an attack on the notion of hard work, as it is a notion I strongly believe in and practice, but I am overly skeptical of the idea of the U.S. being a true meritocracy. We are all entitled to our opinions, but as far as I am concerned an opinion based on simple observations and generalizations, simply makes for a weak argument at best. Also do not take this as an attack against any of you, but if a higher understanding is what we wish to achieve then dialouge and debate is neccessary.

At the same time, excusing people based on where they are born rather than based on their actions is a joke, and part of the culture of failure that continues to plague the black community which didn't plague the irish, the italians, the chinese or any of the groups of immigrants including the hispanics.

I grew up with a father who didn't know his father. his father abandoned his mom and family of 5 boys and 1 girl about 6 months after the youngest was born. My dad grew up illiterate as he had to do odd jobs to make enough money to feed the family from the age of 7, along with the 2 of his brothers who were older. Washing dishes, delivering newspapers, delivering groceries, washing cars, whatever he could make a dime, or even get something in barter for.

I grew up in a less than wonderful neighborhood, eating free school lunches as even in the 80s you couldn't exactly make a pile of money if you couldn't read. Did either my father or I use that as an excuse to not be responsible for ourselves? nope.

And there is the real problem, the huge volume of young black men aren't in jail because of prejudice, they end up there because they chose to commit a crime because they believed there was nothing else they could do because even their community leaders tell them they will fail. refusing to take responsibility for yourself and commiting crimes because "they white man is holding you down" is ridiculous

[BLACK747]

listen easy not all blacks are like that but a few are but you need to include other races too or you began to sound races

[BLACK747]

racist

[Jayhawkk]

Just an other op-ed political piece filled with bias and hate towards liberal democrats... Some points were fine until they were watered down with opinion. And no, i'm not a liberal dem.

[Red Dog]

I think he's well aware that those situations arise in every race to a given degree, but it's undeniable that the topics at hand are several times more prevalent in the black community -- which is why I would imagine the emphasis on that particular race.

[BLACK747]

I see it day in and day out in my community my homeboys hanging on street corners looking suspect not because its all they can do its because its all they believe they can do. Bottom line its alot of things that can be blamed because of this but race is not one of them.One thing us African Americans needs to tackle is single parents issue and thats something that needs to be brought up in churches sunday dinners etc.

[teribleturtle]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

At the same time, excusing people based on where they are born rather than based on their actions is a joke, and part of the culture of failure that continues to plague the black community which didn't plague the irish, the italians, the chinese or any of the groups of immigrants including the hispanics.

I grew up with a father who didn't know his father. his father abandoned his mom and family of 5 boys and 1 girl about 6 months after the youngest was born. My dad grew up illiterate as he had to do odd jobs to make enough money to feed the family from the age of 7, along with the 2 of his brothers who were older. Washing dishes, delivering newspapers, delivering groceries, washing cars, whatever he could make a dime, or even get something in barter for.

I grew up in a less than wonderful neighborhood, eating free school lunches as even in the 80s you couldn't exactly make a pile of money if you couldn't read. Did either my father or I use that as an excuse to not be responsible for ourselves? nope.

And there is the real problem, the huge volume of young black men aren't in jail because of prejudice, they end up there because they chose to commit a crime because they believed there was nothing else they could do because even their community leaders tell them they will fail. refusing to take responsibility for yourself and commiting crimes because "they white man is holding you down" is ridiculous

I wont argue that their are exceptional individuals who through their efforts "make it out", myself included ( minority, raised in the ghetto, now pursuing a masters and PhD). But these individuals are the exception and must be even much more exceptional than your average mainstream middle class student, due to the fact that the obstacles (academic, personal, and social) are much greater. Simply due to those circumstances you could see why and it follows logically that individuals from impoverished backgrounds will do much worse. Compound that to the fact that it has not been so long since Jim Crow, segregation, etc. ended some of the effects of that period are still lingering. Also Hispanics situation is just as bleak as that of Blacks, in fact in terms of educational attainment it’s much worse, but they too are in a similar cycle of poverty.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by BLACK747

One thing us African Americans needs to tackle is single parents issue and thats something that needs to be brought up in churches sunday dinners etc.

Thats really where I think things would change, as I think that has more to do with it than anything else anymore. Learning family values which include feeding and clothing your kids and the absent dad not resorting to crime so that he can wear g-unit and coogi and nike while the kids get their clothes from the church.

Its definitely not just the black community this happens in, its just a bigger problem there as a percentage, which also makes it a way larger problem in raw #s.

I think it really is all about the family, and what values get espoused. Grillz are cool and all, but when that comes before paying for health insurance for the family, theres a problem. And so it really needs to have a solution or movement that comes from inside the ghettos. Theres no way from the outside to force a child to believe that they can make it if they try, it needs to be the parents + community members. Any attempts from the outside to try and stop the negative elements are met with resentment - "taking away more of our young men"

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by teribleturtle

Also Hispanics situation is just as bleak as that of Blacks, in fact in terms of educational attainment it’s much worse, but they too are in a similar cycle of poverty.

True in some ways, however just looking at the single parent households # from the census its not as bad. And I can't recall the last time I heard hispanics talking about how "whitey is holding them down", a larger percentage take responsibility for their families, work hard so that their children can be better off than they are. So i'm not sure i'd agree their situation is as "bleak", as they don't believe their situation is. Again I believe that the black community believing their situation is bleak and using that as an excuse for accepting irresponsible behavior is the only thing that makes it bleak. The hispanic gangs are no better, but its a smaller % of the community.

[EasyEJL]

just cause it feels a little tense, i'm not racist, i've dated black girls when I was single, and am married to a puerto rican, and having been raised jewish know some of the feelings of being a minority as well. religious minority things are a wee bit different, but some similarities.

[goslamacamel]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

just cause it feels a little tense, i'm not racist, i've dated black girls when I was single, and am married to a puerto rican, and having been raised jewish know some of the feelings of being a minority as well. religious minority things are a wee bit different, but some similarities.

Being a racist as I understand the word is simply playing the probability game intelligently. You don't have to hate anyone or discriminate against anyone to be racist. Racism is simply an initial judgment which stands against someone until they're known more personally. I have plenty of black friends, but if I'm walking on a street and a black guy is following me closely, I'm not dumb - so I'll walk faster. The same situation with a white person following close behind would just be weird, but I wouldn't be nearly as concerned. Racism is simply knowing probability based on empirical evidence, not ignorant discrimination.

[Gtarzan81]

the first minute of the vid says a lot.

[Jayhawkk]

Stereotype?

[teribleturtle]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

just cause it feels a little tense, i'm not racist, i've dated black girls when I was single, and am married to a puerto rican, and having been raised jewish know some of the feelings of being a minority as well. religious minority things are a wee bit different, but some similarities.

Well it was interesting discussing the issue, and Easy we can agree to disagree with no hard feelings. Seems to me that I was kind of alone in this debate, but none the less interesting. Its always refreshing to hear contrary arguments and opinions, not only does it allow you to understand what "the opposition" thinks, but when challenged it gives you a greater understanding of your own ideas and opinions. I guess its nice to leave the muscle building and supplement world for a while, come back to reality and discuss issues that have a significant impact on peoples lives and society.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by BLACK747

racist

I HATE Eskimos!!!!!!!