A Report from the White Community

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  1. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by teribleturtle View Post
    My take on this is, if you have never lived a day of your life in the ghetto or as a minority then you really do not know what it is like to fail or succeed in such an environment. Do not take this as an attack on the notion of hard work, as it is a notion I strongly believe in and practice, but I am overly skeptical of the idea of the U.S. being a true meritocracy. We are all entitled to our opinions, but as far as I am concerned an opinion based on simple observations and generalizations, simply makes for a weak argument at best. Also do not take this as an attack against any of you, but if a higher understanding is what we wish to achieve then dialouge and debate is neccessary.
    At the same time, excusing people based on where they are born rather than based on their actions is a joke, and part of the culture of failure that continues to plague the black community which didn't plague the irish, the italians, the chinese or any of the groups of immigrants including the hispanics.

    I grew up with a father who didn't know his father. his father abandoned his mom and family of 5 boys and 1 girl about 6 months after the youngest was born. My dad grew up illiterate as he had to do odd jobs to make enough money to feed the family from the age of 7, along with the 2 of his brothers who were older. Washing dishes, delivering newspapers, delivering groceries, washing cars, whatever he could make a dime, or even get something in barter for.

    I grew up in a less than wonderful neighborhood, eating free school lunches as even in the 80s you couldn't exactly make a pile of money if you couldn't read. Did either my father or I use that as an excuse to not be responsible for ourselves? nope.

    And there is the real problem, the huge volume of young black men aren't in jail because of prejudice, they end up there because they chose to commit a crime because they believed there was nothing else they could do because even their community leaders tell them they will fail. refusing to take responsibility for yourself and commiting crimes because "they white man is holding you down" is ridiculous
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  2. listen easy not all blacks are like that but a few are but you need to include other races too or you began to sound races
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  3. racist

  4. Just an other op-ed political piece filled with bias and hate towards liberal democrats... Some points were fine until they were watered down with opinion. And no, i'm not a liberal dem.

  5. I think he's well aware that those situations arise in every race to a given degree, but it's undeniable that the topics at hand are several times more prevalent in the black community -- which is why I would imagine the emphasis on that particular race.
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  6. I see it day in and day out in my community my homeboys hanging on street corners looking suspect not because its all they can do its because its all they believe they can do. Bottom line its alot of things that can be blamed because of this but race is not one of them.One thing us African Americans needs to tackle is single parents issue and thats something that needs to be brought up in churches sunday dinners etc.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    At the same time, excusing people based on where they are born rather than based on their actions is a joke, and part of the culture of failure that continues to plague the black community which didn't plague the irish, the italians, the chinese or any of the groups of immigrants including the hispanics.

    I grew up with a father who didn't know his father. his father abandoned his mom and family of 5 boys and 1 girl about 6 months after the youngest was born. My dad grew up illiterate as he had to do odd jobs to make enough money to feed the family from the age of 7, along with the 2 of his brothers who were older. Washing dishes, delivering newspapers, delivering groceries, washing cars, whatever he could make a dime, or even get something in barter for.

    I grew up in a less than wonderful neighborhood, eating free school lunches as even in the 80s you couldn't exactly make a pile of money if you couldn't read. Did either my father or I use that as an excuse to not be responsible for ourselves? nope.

    And there is the real problem, the huge volume of young black men aren't in jail because of prejudice, they end up there because they chose to commit a crime because they believed there was nothing else they could do because even their community leaders tell them they will fail. refusing to take responsibility for yourself and commiting crimes because "they white man is holding you down" is ridiculous
    I wont argue that their are exceptional individuals who through their efforts "make it out", myself included ( minority, raised in the ghetto, now pursuing a masters and PhD). But these individuals are the exception and must be even much more exceptional than your average mainstream middle class student, due to the fact that the obstacles (academic, personal, and social) are much greater. Simply due to those circumstances you could see why and it follows logically that individuals from impoverished backgrounds will do much worse. Compound that to the fact that it has not been so long since Jim Crow, segregation, etc. ended some of the effects of that period are still lingering. Also Hispanics situation is just as bleak as that of Blacks, in fact in terms of educational attainment itís much worse, but they too are in a similar cycle of poverty.
  8. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by BLACK747 View Post
    One thing us African Americans needs to tackle is single parents issue and thats something that needs to be brought up in churches sunday dinners etc.
    Thats really where I think things would change, as I think that has more to do with it than anything else anymore. Learning family values which include feeding and clothing your kids and the absent dad not resorting to crime so that he can wear g-unit and coogi and nike while the kids get their clothes from the church.

    Its definitely not just the black community this happens in, its just a bigger problem there as a percentage, which also makes it a way larger problem in raw #s.

    I think it really is all about the family, and what values get espoused. Grillz are cool and all, but when that comes before paying for health insurance for the family, theres a problem. And so it really needs to have a solution or movement that comes from inside the ghettos. Theres no way from the outside to force a child to believe that they can make it if they try, it needs to be the parents + community members. Any attempts from the outside to try and stop the negative elements are met with resentment - "taking away more of our young men"
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  9. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by teribleturtle View Post
    Also Hispanics situation is just as bleak as that of Blacks, in fact in terms of educational attainment itís much worse, but they too are in a similar cycle of poverty.
    True in some ways, however just looking at the single parent households # from the census its not as bad. And I can't recall the last time I heard hispanics talking about how "whitey is holding them down", a larger percentage take responsibility for their families, work hard so that their children can be better off than they are. So i'm not sure i'd agree their situation is as "bleak", as they don't believe their situation is. Again I believe that the black community believing their situation is bleak and using that as an excuse for accepting irresponsible behavior is the only thing that makes it bleak. The hispanic gangs are no better, but its a smaller % of the community.
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  10. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    just cause it feels a little tense, i'm not racist, i've dated black girls when I was single, and am married to a puerto rican, and having been raised jewish know some of the feelings of being a minority as well. religious minority things are a wee bit different, but some similarities.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    just cause it feels a little tense, i'm not racist, i've dated black girls when I was single, and am married to a puerto rican, and having been raised jewish know some of the feelings of being a minority as well. religious minority things are a wee bit different, but some similarities.
    Being a racist as I understand the word is simply playing the probability game intelligently. You don't have to hate anyone or discriminate against anyone to be racist. Racism is simply an initial judgment which stands against someone until they're known more personally. I have plenty of black friends, but if I'm walking on a street and a black guy is following me closely, I'm not dumb - so I'll walk faster. The same situation with a white person following close behind would just be weird, but I wouldn't be nearly as concerned. Racism is simply knowing probability based on empirical evidence, not ignorant discrimination.

  12. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

    the first minute of the vid says a lot.

  13. Stereotype?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    just cause it feels a little tense, i'm not racist, i've dated black girls when I was single, and am married to a puerto rican, and having been raised jewish know some of the feelings of being a minority as well. religious minority things are a wee bit different, but some similarities.

    Well it was interesting discussing the issue, and Easy we can agree to disagree with no hard feelings. Seems to me that I was kind of alone in this debate, but none the less interesting. Its always refreshing to hear contrary arguments and opinions, not only does it allow you to understand what "the opposition" thinks, but when challenged it gives you a greater understanding of your own ideas and opinions. I guess its nice to leave the muscle building and supplement world for a while, come back to reality and discuss issues that have a significant impact on peoples lives and society.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by BLACK747 View Post
    racist

    I HATE Eskimos!!!!!!!
  16. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by teribleturtle View Post
    Well it was interesting discussing the issue, and Easy we can agree to disagree with no hard feelings. Seems to me that I was kind of alone in this debate, but none the less interesting. Its always refreshing to hear contrary arguments and opinions, not only does it allow you to understand what "the opposition" thinks, but when challenged it gives you a greater understanding of your own ideas and opinions. I guess its nice to leave the muscle building and supplement world for a while, come back to reality and discuss issues that have a significant impact on peoples lives and society.
    Its probably one of the most important issues today, more important in some ways than terrorism or the mortgage/credit crisis because it has not been getting any better. I wish there was an easy answer to it, but there isn't. You are definitely right that its not easy to break out, but the "why" and "what can anyone outside of that community do to change it" are the parts that so far nobody can figure out. My belief is that its due to the broken families, and not enough parental involvement in the childrens lives + academia, because anyone who has successfully broken out generally gives a lot of that credit to the effort their parents put in. My mother spent a lot of time when I was in the 1-3 age reading to me, teaching me to count etc. Before I turned 4 I could read some of the dr seuss books. Subtracting that from my situation and stuff me in front of a tv for those hours instead and i'd be doing manual labor jobs somewhere today.

    back to my earlier question on who holds the biggest % of nobel prizes, its the jews. As a percentage of them on the globe they hold something crazy like 20x as many nobel prizes as any other group. But they are a strong tight community that values family (Rabbis are married with children, not pedophiles) and education highly. Its not some set of equal opportunity laws that gives them this, its the effort of their community.

    I guess funny enough thats why I like anabolic minds so much. We also are that sort of community. We value our members, and don't want to see any of us fail. Even the people on the fringes, and the ones who just moved in. We'll band together to try and help them find the answers they need to not hurt themselves, or make the best of what they have. We value the education and knowledge as much as anything else.

    Maybe its even something like testosterone levels. With black males having some of the highest levels as a group, a greater % have more of the heavy alpha male thing going on, and are more willing to harm their community so long as they can be "in charge".

    teribleturtle as a question, do you go back to where you grew up and let the young people know that they can break out if they put effort in and try? I think that is a part of the problem, that most people who manage to break out don't want to go back. That plus a 3 year old honda accord that is paid for isn't as impressive as a stolen escalade painted metallic neon green riding on 24s.

    Lastly I guess another weird example of the way it seems from the outside that the inner city black community has some issues with what it values is Marion Barry. Everyone makes mistakes yes, and you should forgive them, but that doesn't mean you should reward them. How can someone manage a city when they can't manage their personal life?
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Its probably one of the most important issues today, more important in some ways than terrorism or the mortgage/credit crisis because it has not been getting any better. I wish there was an easy answer to it, but there isn't. You are definitely right that its not easy to break out, but the "why" and "what can anyone outside of that community do to change it" are the parts that so far nobody can figure out. My belief is that its due to the broken families, and not enough parental involvement in the childrens lives + academia, because anyone who has successfully broken out generally gives a lot of that credit to the effort their parents put in. My mother spent a lot of time when I was in the 1-3 age reading to me, teaching me to count etc. Before I turned 4 I could read some of the dr seuss books. Subtracting that from my situation and stuff me in front of a tv for those hours instead and i'd be doing manual labor jobs somewhere today.

    back to my earlier question on who holds the biggest % of nobel prizes, its the jews. As a percentage of them on the globe they hold something crazy like 20x as many nobel prizes as any other group. But they are a strong tight community that values family (Rabbis are married with children, not pedophiles) and education highly. Its not some set of equal opportunity laws that gives them this, its the effort of their community.

    I guess funny enough thats why I like anabolic minds so much. We also are that sort of community. We value our members, and don't want to see any of us fail. Even the people on the fringes, and the ones who just moved in. We'll band together to try and help them find the answers they need to not hurt themselves, or make the best of what they have. We value the education and knowledge as much as anything else.

    Maybe its even something like testosterone levels. With black males having some of the highest levels as a group, a greater % have more of the heavy alpha male thing going on, and are more willing to harm their community so long as they can be "in charge".

    teribleturtle as a question, do you go back to where you grew up and let the young people know that they can break out if they put effort in and try? I think that is a part of the problem, that most people who manage to break out don't want to go back. That plus a 3 year old honda accord that is paid for isn't as impressive as a stolen escalade painted metallic neon green riding on 24s.

    Lastly I guess another weird example of the way it seems from the outside that the inner city black community has some issues with what it values is Marion Barry. Everyone makes mistakes yes, and you should forgive them, but that doesn't mean you should reward them. How can someone manage a city when they can't manage their personal life?
    Absolutely, I go back as much as possible, as a matter of fact during the summers I volunteer at my old high school, as a tutor, and as a sort of college counselor helping kids who have no idea of how to get into or pay for college find solutions. Not only that but when I go to my old "hood" I often talk to some of my friends younger brothers and sister and talk to them about the importance of a college education. I also work at a non-profit low income housing developer, spent semesters in D.C. and NYC studying community development strategies. A large portion of my life I dedicate to social justice issues. I know it seems uncommon for a "bodybuilding/jock athlete type" to be involved in these causes but its what really gives me a purpose. This was all brought up while in college and just witnessing the lack of not only minorities but also kids who come from poor and working class backgrounds, this disparity is even greater in grad school. I know I cant change the world but if I am able to help a few people change their lives then I see it as one cycle of poverty being broken.
  18. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    For a while in the tail end of the 90s when I had more free time, I used to work with a group that took in computers that businesses were getting rid of as part of an upgrade cycle, cleaned them up, reinstalled OS, installed educational stuff on them, and put them in low income area parks that had lockable buildings. Worked out some, the technological divide is another piece of the puzzle nowadays, you can't do crap for a job if you can't type.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    yes, but funny, thats the way most of our grandparents or greatgrandparents started here. living in poverty, fresh from some other country, without a pot to piss in. They didn't use it as an excuse for the next 10 generations or indefinitely.

    its funny how portions of the "black community" are happy to band together as a community to despise the white man, but won't band together to make their men be responsible for the children they father.

    Does anyone else here besides me know which group holds the most % of nobel prizes based on how many of them there are on earth? Can you guess they have a culture that values learning over rims?


    The Jews.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by teribleturtle View Post
    To make a long story short, once trapped in that cycle of poverty, hopelessness it becomes very hard to break out of it. Even Arnold Scwarzanegger is quoted as saying "I once thought everyone should pull themselves up from their bootstraps like I did, then I realized not everyone has boots". Even Arnold is shooting holes at the idea of a solid meritocracy, which is like a race only with different starting points, some at the front, some at the back.

    This idea of mixing races brought up by another board member as bad has absoultely no merit. If by race you mean that there is an inherit essence to members of a particular race then perhaps you might be right. As human beings there is no real essence other than the fact that we are living and we exist. Most notions of an essence (masculine, feminine, racial, ethnic, etc) are nothing but social constructions that can be deconstructed by the individual as quick as they were constructed.

    I am willing to wager that Arnold didn't utter such things until he began his political career. Regardless, I do not disagree with you, it is very easy to stay in a bad situation than to break out of it. However, we should recognize when the government and civil institutions are contributing to the cycle. As it stands our government is hurting some minorities in this country more than it is helping them.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    For a while in the tail end of the 90s when I had more free time, I used to work with a group that took in computers that businesses were getting rid of as part of an upgrade cycle, cleaned them up, reinstalled OS, installed educational stuff on them, and put them in low income area parks that had lockable buildings. Worked out some, the technological divide is another piece of the puzzle nowadays, you can't do crap for a job if you can't type.

    So I did some brief research on testosterone levels, race, and crime/risky behaivior. Turns out that Black and Mexican males have the highest levels of testosterone. In a few studies I found, it listed Mexican males as having slightly higher testosterone levels than Blacks. I also understand that a correlation but not causality has been documented between high testosterone levels and crime/risky behaivior. This is what I mean by debate and dialouge leading to a higher understanding, I will continue examining this subject perhaps consult with some sociologists and anthropologists that I know and hear their take on this subject. Just google "Black males testosterone levels" or Mexican-American males testosterone levels.
  22. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Interesting, i'm going to have to look for that.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by teribleturtle View Post
    So I did some brief research on testosterone levels, race, and crime/risky behaivior. Turns out that Black and Mexican males have the highest levels of testosterone. In a few studies I found, it listed Mexican males as having slightly higher testosterone levels than Blacks. I also understand that a correlation but not causality has been documented between high testosterone levels and crime/risky behaivior. This is what I mean by debate and dialouge leading to a higher understanding, I will continue examining this subject perhaps consult with some sociologists and anthropologists that I know and hear their take on this subject. Just google "Black males testosterone levels" or Mexican-American males testosterone levels.
    That's why hispanic men have the highest sperm count.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by goslamacamel View Post
    That's why hispanic men have the highest sperm count.
    Hispanic as in European Spanish, or Latin American?

  25. Quote Originally Posted by goslamacamel View Post
    That's why hispanic men have the highest sperm count.

    no, no. I have the highest sperm count. and maybe hispanics come in 2nd.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Dadof2 View Post
    Hispanic as in European Spanish, or Latin American?

    The studies all specifically mention Mexican males. My understanding is that Mexican racial composition is primarily Indian/Amerindian, with some White( southern European, Iberian) and Black.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by teribleturtle View Post
    The studies all specifically mention Mexican males. My understanding is that Mexican racial composition is primarily Indian/Amerindian, with some White( southern European, Iberian) and Black.
    I thought they may have been referencing folks from the Iberian peninsula, which would explain my inability to have sex with my wife without producing another offspring.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Dadof2 View Post
    I thought they may have been referencing folks from the Iberian peninsula, which would explain my inability to have sex with my wife without producing another offspring.
    Anecdotal evidence tells me it's especially the short half-Aztec looking Mexicans who can breed like rabbits. (Texas).

  29. Quote Originally Posted by goslamacamel View Post
    Anecdotal evidence tells me it's especially the short half-Aztec looking Mexicans who can breed like rabbits. (Texas).
    Im part Mexican and P.R. and I find that hilarious, hilarious because in many cases its true lol! I know they are just anecdotes but I still remember that in high school it was usually the Mexican dudes who were in the 9th and 10th grades sporting full beards, mustaches, and were basically built like grown men. wow this thread really took a turn.
  30. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    hmm not really it started with the white community saying "stop blaming us, we're not holding you back, we're also not giving you a free ride" and now we're examining some of the factors that still cause the cycles of poverty. how much more does it cost to raise 5 children than 2?
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