Jersey Cops Shoot Forest Gump ???

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    Exclamation Jersey Cops Shoot Forest Gump ???


    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/ny...in&oref=slogin

    A mentally disabled man failed to stop at a routine check point and took six bullets !!!

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    Idiots. What if it was a diabetic who was delirious, or a person w/ any other ailment? I don't see how filling a car full of bullets was warranted in this situation. Of course, I wasn't there and am basing this opinion off the article.

    I've watched quite a few episodes of cops. And even when the criminals attempt high speed getaways putting the lives of many people in danger, nobody opens fire on the car when it finally comes to a stop.
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    Yea, there is no way for the cops to know if the man was mentally challenged or not. but the "aiming the car" defense seems a bit flimsy. I mean is it even possible to aim a car? Do they mean the car was pointing in the direction of the cops? Does that warrant the use of deadly force ? After the shots were fired was the car not pointing in the direction of the cops? Why did they stop firing? Did they run out of bullets,..or were they no longer threatened by the car being aimed in their direction because they shot the driver six times? Lets keep in mind that the drivers car was in "reverse" at the time of the shooting!!!

    trial by jury time
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    I love how people automatically jump down the cops throats when something like this happens. Call up your local police force and ask to do a ride along and see for yourself what its like out there before you start passing judgement.
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    dangerous job != shoot anyone you want

    Think about the cops? Think about Forest.



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    Yes you can aim a car. I do it everyday with my steering wheel. deadly force = deadly force. a 2 ton object coming your direction will kill you so you use deadly force to save your life. when the deadly force is no longer present you reduce your level of force. remember you have the right to save your or someone elses life. Reverse is your lowest and most powerful gear. I would have blown the SOB away as a civilian and I would expect the cops to do the same thing.
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    the whole disability thing does not work for me because I see many disabled people that commit crimes. they work jobs and get college degrees. it is a lot easier to be disabled than you might think. there is an agency here that tells their clients the tricks to getting on disability, like quit your job dont go to school, dont take your meds when seeing the disability dr...
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    dude this wasnt in ****ing compton....it was in CLIFTON new jersey. i am from new jersey, and clifton is not exactly a rough area. far from it.

    this is a classic case of "we are the cops, and if you dont do exactly what we want when we tell you to do it we are going to hurt you"
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822 View Post
    dude this wasnt in ****ing compton....it was in CLIFTON new jersey. i am from new jersey, and clifton is not exactly a rough area. far from it.

    this is a classic case of "we are the cops, and if you dont do exactly what we want when we tell you to do it we are going to hurt you"
    you must not know a lot of cops. Yes cops make bad decisions but to think they opened fire on someone cause they didnt listen to a command is rediculous. The guy doesnt stop at a check point, then leads police on a chase, then drives in the direction of a police officer. Why is it wrong to suspect that this person is a danger to both the police and the public?
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    i know dozens of cops. i spent my childhood afternoons inside my mothers office...assnt prosecutor of somerset county new jersey. they used to babysit me in the police station.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    you must not know a lot of cops. Yes cops make bad decisions but to think they opened fire on someone cause they didnt listen to a command is rediculous. The guy doesnt stop at a check point, then leads police on a chase, then drives in the direction of a police officer. Why is it wrong to suspect that this person is a danger to both the police and the public?
    look we both know how this went down. this guy blows by their checkpoint, so immediately what he has in store for himself is a chase, being dragged from his car, tackled, screamed at, cuffed, generally disrespected, and treated as subhuman overall.

    to top things off, he continues to drive and ignore the directives of police officers, how dare he. THEN he probably messed up shifting into park and was going in reverse at idling speed. thats it for this guy, we are pissed off, he didnt listen to us, we had to drive and abandon our almighty seat belt moneymaker checkpoint, and do paperwork. this guy is going to get it. blam blam. officer safety.

    oh hes mentall disabled...well WHAT IF HE WASNT. what if he was trying to kill us. what if he was the leader of drug cartel packing 50 caliber weapons under his home depot vest. what if.

    well guess what. he wasnt, and he didnt, and the cops were wrong. and this happend because the first reaction is to fire and ask questions later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822 View Post
    look we both know how this went down. this guy blows by their checkpoint, so immediately what he has in store for himself is a chase, being dragged from his car, tackled, screamed at, cuffed, generally disrespected, and treated as subhuman overall.

    to top things off, he continues to drive and ignore the directives of police officers, how dare he. THEN he probably messed up shifting into park and was going in reverse at idling speed. thats it for this guy, we are pissed off, he didnt listen to us, we had to drive and abandon our almighty seat belt moneymaker checkpoint, and do paperwork. this guy is going to get it. blam blam. officer safety.

    oh hes mentall disabled...well WHAT IF HE WASNT. what if he was trying to kill us. what if he was the leader of drug cartel packing 50 caliber weapons under his home depot vest. what if.

    well guess what. he wasnt, and he didnt, and the cops were wrong. and this happend because the first reaction is to fire and ask questions later.

    Wow...thats assuming a lot. Have you seen footage showing how this played out or know something the rest don't? I'm not going to pretend like I know how it played out, but to automatically assume the cops were wrong is a mistake. I've done enough ride alongs (I'm actually trying to become a police officer) to know first hand how difficult those decisions are and how it affects those that have to make them. They might have made the wrong decision for all I know, but to automatically attribute that to arrogance or self-righteousness is insulting.
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    Most states allow the police to use lethal force only when there is no other way to save a life. I am only reading the story as reported
    by the police in this case,..but if I was a lawyer prosecuting the case against the cops ...It would go like this:

    Officer Jones when are you as a police officer allowed to use lethal force?

    So, when you opened fire you were protecting your life because there were no alternative options ?

    So, the only way to protect your self from a car traveling in reverse is to shoot the driver?

    Did you learn this in the academy?

    So, this was a choice that you felt best served to protect and serve the public in accordance to the law as you know it?

    Leave your badge on the table!
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicrhino View Post
    Most states allow the police to use lethal force only when there is no other way to save a life. I am only reading the story as reported
    by the police in this case,..but if I was a lawyer prosecuting the case against the cops ...It would go like this:

    Officer Jones when are you as a police officer allowed to use lethal force?

    So, when you opened fire you were protecting your life because there were no alternative options ?

    So, the only way to protect your self from a car traveling in reverse is to shoot the driver?

    Did you learn this in the academy?

    So, this was a choice that you felt best served to protect and serve the public in accordance to the law as you know it?

    Leave your badge on the table!
    If a car is driving towards you and you have a gun, what are your other options? Shoot one across the hood as a warning? Shoot out the tires (cause people have never kept driving with blown tires)?? Try to pull a superman and stop the car with your hands?

    Why were these cops wrong to assume this person was a danger?

    I wonder if this would even be news if the person was a criminal or heck, a black kid?
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    http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...Y3dnFlZUVFeXkz

    Two things worth noting from this article..1. an officer was hit by the car. 2. Its within NJ state law for police to fire at a fleeing suspect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...Y3dnFlZUVFeXkz

    Two things worth noting from this article..1. an officer was hit by the car. 2. Its within NJ state law for police to fire at a fleeing suspect.
    ehhh wrong.

    an officers CAR was hit..NOT an officer. big difference. i guarantee, in fact, i bet my eternal soul that there was a grand total of 1 dent in the officers car, and not a very big one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822 View Post
    ehhh wrong.

    an officers CAR was hit..NOT an officer. big difference. i guarantee, in fact, i bet my eternal soul that there was a grand total of 1 dent in the officers car, and not a very big one.
    uuhhh...Am i reading this wrong..

    Clifton police Detective Lt. Richard Berdnik said one of the officers had been grazed by the car and received minor injuries.
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    Clifton police Detective Lt. Richard Berdnik said one of the officers had been grazed by the car and received minor injuries. All three men were treated and released Sunday night, he said.

    so lets shoot a retard 6 times IN THE BACK
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822 View Post
    Clifton police Detective Lt. Richard Berdnik said one of the officers had been grazed by the car and received minor injuries. All three men were treated and released Sunday night, he said.

    so lets shoot a retard 6 times IN THE BACK
    yeah cause they knew he was a retard. New police tactic: Use mind powers to determine the mental state of someone refusing to obey police commands before acting.
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    One question I think that needs to be asked is whether this individual was fit to be driving in the first place? If we are to believe the story, he became confused at a police check stop, not understanding what to do. That wouldn't inspire alot of confidence in myself in his ability react to the dynamic activity of driving, in such a fashion as to not be a danger to himself and others on the road.
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    First whether he was mentally retarded has nothing to do with what the police officers did. They had no way of knowing. Yes they could jump out of the way of the car, but usually in a case where someone is trying to run a cop over they than try and flee the scene so they, A. jump outta the way and he drives off or B. Shoot and try and stop him before he drives off and potentially have another high speed chase resulting in the death of someone not involved in any way?

    Everyone has seen high speed chases, they are dangerous and often times several cars and run into and others non-involved receive injuries as well. I think what happened is horrible, but I am sick of every story I read about cops and how these are such horrible people and they just shoot for fun, like to pick on minorities and so on. Yes there are some bad cops out there who should not be cops, but the majority are good people trying to do their job without getting hurt and to prevent others from getting hurt. Give them a damn break already, how many cops have died trying to protect us and make our country and a safer place? Mistakes DO happen and always WILL happen, its horrible when they do, but it does not mean the cop is doing it on purpose. There is a balance between too little force and too much force, its hard to find it and cops do their best to make sure things get done right.
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    I love the way these stories play out like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakebyte05 View Post
    Mistakes DO happen and always WILL happen, its horrible when they do, but it does not mean the cop is doing it on purpose. There is a balance between too little force and too much force, its hard to find it and cops do their best to make sure things get done right.
    The reason for the mistake doesn't change the out come for the victim of the mistake.

    Mistakes are part of life, but you never want a mistake to take a life.

    Just because the cops made a mistake does not make them bad people.

    However, if they made the mistake because they were incompetent, then they are bad cops

    ...and that is what this is about making sure that the people who are enforcing the laws are good cops!
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicrhino View Post
    The reason for the mistake doesn't change the out come for the victim of the mistake.

    Mistakes are part of life, but you never want a mistake to take a life.

    Just because the cops made a mistake does not make them bad people.

    However, if they made the mistake because they were incompetent, then they are bad cops

    ...and that is what this is about making sure that the people who are enforcing the laws are good cops!

    I do agree with you that if a cop is incompetent he should not be a cop, but I just am not sure this situation would warrant this, given the situation it sounds like they thought they were about to be run over which I think would warrant shooting to prevent the person from getting away and creating more harm as the chase continued on.
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    to be honest i am 90% simply playing devils advocate in my above posts.

    these cops were PROBABLY justified in what they did.

    however that doesnt mean it was right. i can say that, with the facts presented in the fashion that they are, i would have not responded with that kind of force or intent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    uuhhh...Am i reading this wrong..

    Clifton police Detective Lt. Richard Berdnik said one of the officers had been grazed by the car and received minor injuries.
    When Kubasta did not stop, Garfield police followed him on Route 19, and three Clifton police cars joined the pursuit at the city limits, according to Avigliano's account. He said Kubasta was not speeding. It was unclear what happened next, but the car stopped at Route 19 and Broad Street. Police approached the car, and Kubasta went into reverse, hit a Clifton police car and then began driving forward, Avigliano said. The three Clifton policemen then reportedly fired a total of nine to 12 rounds, hitting Kubasta with six shots in the torso and injuring him critically, Avigliano said
    Does not sound like a high speed chase to me.

    Unclear what happened? 3 cop cars presumably with officers in each meaning 3 cops. Sounds more like we have not got our stories right yet.

    Grazed by the car? That sounds like bull**** to me.

    Was he grazed by the car before or after they shot him? Sounds more like the cop with minor injuries was probably the only smart one that jumped out of the way of the vehicle.

    IMO, case of premature panic. Probably watched too many cop shows on TV
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822 View Post
    to be honest i am 90% simply playing devils advocate in my above posts.

    these cops were PROBABLY justified in what they did.

    however that doesnt mean it was right. i can say that, with the facts presented in the fashion that they are, i would have not responded with that kind of force or intent.
    My whole arguement is based on the fact that people automatically assume that the police made a mistake or even worse intentionally acted in that manner. These people are arm-chair quarterbacking after the fact and when all (or some) of the information has been clarified or completely dismiss information that contradicts their preconceived notion that the cops are evil, bad people (See jonny below brushing off the fact that an officer was grazed). The cops on the street dont always have the luxury of gathering this information before acting and are asked to make very difficult decisions. Sometime those decisions are wrong, other times they just "look" wrong.
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    Or they do nothing and you have what just happened a couple days ago when they drive right trhough a crowed of people. A Car is a deadly weapon and when not used in the way it is supposed to be used can be seen as a threat. Until you have been in that scenario you can only archair what you would do.

    Let all the facts come out before you hang anyone.
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