Amish choose to forgive shooter

[B5150]

SouthCoastToday.com - World / Nation - Mourning Amish forgive killer - October 05, 2006

Amish attend killer's funeral to forgive | The World | The Australian

Amish choose to forgive shooter - 10/05/06 - The Detroit News Online

 

[jminis]

That's pretty amazing, I used to live about 40min outside of lancaster. Those Amish are something else, very nice people. It's a lesson for all of us.

 

[B5150]

They sure know how to "walk the talk".

CNN.com - Amish grandfather: 'We must not think evil of this man' - Oct 4, 2006

"It was one of the most touching things I have seen in 25 years of Christian ministry."

 

[Jayhawkk]

No kidding.

 

[EEmain]

Compassionate and unconditional love!

 

[spatch]

As ghandi says, "an eye for en eye leaves the whole world blind."

Compassionate and unconditional love!

And if everyone followed these 2 ideas, we wouldnt have war, hunger, or 99% of evil in this world.

 

[brk_nemesis]

As ghandi says, "an eye for en eye leaves the whole world blind."




And if everyone followed these 2 ideas, we wouldnt have war, hunger, or 99% of evil in this world.

in the words of the infamous Bas Rutten....

"I dont believe in an eye for an eye,... I believe in two eyes for an eye."

-too bad the dirt bag killed himself, i woulda payed off a prison guard, brought in my infamous car battery and cord, and had a nice, everlasting afternoon of electroshock.:twisted:

 

[Beelzebub]

the freak shows from westboro church were planning to show up at the girls funerals. fox offered them one hour of air time to keep them away, they accepted.

 

[bpmartyr]

the freak shows from westboro church were planning to show up at the girls funerals. fox offered them one hour of air time to keep them away, they accepted.

Those folks are wacked. Very nice of Fox to do that. The Amish may be missing the whole "go into all the world teaching them to obey all that I have commanded" thing, but they are good peoples.

 

[bioman]

I don't think they are missing anything. They teach by their actions which is more than can be said of others. In short, they get it.

 

[Jayhawkk]

That's the way I see it Bio.

 

[bpmartyr]

To each their own. To debate this would step into theological/doctrinal territory and I am not interested.

I agree on the whole that these guys have it going on for the most part and hopefully we can agree to disagree on the minutia.

 

[Jayhawkk]

one sec

 

[Jayhawkk]

Okay I looked up minutia and i guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[bpmartyr]

LOL. You crack me up.

 

[bioman]

An Amish MOD would have known what "minutia" meant. I'm sure of it.

 

[Jayhawkk]

But not Dumbish MOD. So i'm covered.

 

[spatch]

If the westboro church ever comes around RI, they better brase themselves. A whole bunch of military guys go to my gym, a lot of which are on juice. Put them in a ring with a westboro-mofo and watch the beatings.

 

[spatch]

I sent an email to those freaks. Here it is

"No, I'm not "bashing" you people, I just want a simple question answered. I am going to abide by rule #2, Any messages containing obscene, pejorative or hostile language will not be personally responded to.

Infact, I'm going to tell you folks what I agree with you on. Is god dissapointed with America. Yes, no doubt. We kill unborn children, have gay marrage, have sex out of sheer lust, to name a few.

However, what ever happened to forgiveness. "Forgive and you will be forgiven" are some of the words of christ. You are not free of sin, no one is. Christ said you will be measuered by the same stick you measure with. Did jesus ever protest prostitutes and the likes? No.


I would REALLY appreciate a responce.
Thank you for your time. "


I really want to see what they say to that.

 

[B5150]

"Forgive and you will be forgiven" are some of the words of christ.

"Forgive, because you have been forgiven"

 

[bpmartyr]

LUKE 6:35-38 NKJ
35 "But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Highest. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.
36 "Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 "Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."

 

[B5150]

Eph 4:32

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, (even as*) God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

* taking liberty to imply 'because'

So...forgive to be forgiven. Forgive as (because) we have been forgiven.

Forgiveness, a free gift received in faith and of salvation.

Forgive to be forgiven. Withold forgiveness and forgiveness is witheld?

Intersting pardox.

BTW I profess Christianity and Jesus as the Christ.

 

[bpmartyr]

Your making me feel all warm and fuzzy B.

 

[B5150]

I wasn't done ^

 

[bpmartyr]

Interesting indeed. I am not smart enough to figure all that stuff out. I just know one thing: "THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I".

 

[B5150]

Mercy is not receiving what we deserve.
Grace is receiving what we don't deserve.

May grace and mercy be abundant to both of us.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Damn B, you really are the old wise one

 

[bpmartyr]

Mercy is not receiving what we deserve.
Grace is receiving what we don't deserve.

May grace and mercy be abundant to both of us.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to B5150 again.

 

[spatch]

All of the above post prove the golden rule, hense, its golden

 

[spatch]

Forgive to be forgiven. Withold forgiveness and forgiveness is witheld?

Intersting pardox.

exactly. The parable of the sheep and goats proves that we will be treated the way we treat others, so one can assume that if we withhold forgiveness, we will be treated like the goats...

"1. King Jesus divided all the people like a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats.
2. The King said to the sheep on his right, “Come into my house. I want to give you many things.”
· I was hungry and you gave me food.
· I was thirsty and you gave me drink.
· I was a stranger and you invited me in.
· I was naked and you gave me clothes.
· I was sick and you took care of me.
· I was in jail and you visited me.
3. The sheep asked, “When did we do all these things?”
4. The King said, “When you did any of these things for one of my people, you did it for me.”
5. The King said to the goats, “Go away from me. Go into the fire that never stops.”
· I was hungry, but you did not give me food.
· I was thirsty, but you did not give me drink.
· I was a stranger, but you did not invite me in.
· I was naked, but you did not give me clothes.
· I was sick, but you did not take care of me.
· I was in jail, but you did not visit me.
6. The goats asked, “When did we not do all these things?”
7. The King said, “When you did not do any of these things for one of my people, you did not do it for me.”

 

[B5150]

I ask you then, is salvation (being saved) in works or by grace and faith?

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:15-16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:14-17

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:11

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:21-26

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2

And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 2:16

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:3-7

 

[brk_nemesis]

Ezekiel 25:17.

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

fits the situation much better. it would also be something id say to this guys face right before i beat his face in with my fist.

 

[bpmartyr]

Works can not save you. Salvation is by Grace, through Faith and evidenced by good works. There is an argument that if you have not repented and continue to live in flagrant sin and show no evidence of a changed life that you never truly received said Grace.

 

[UHCougar05]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to B5150 again.

Got him for you BP. :thumbsup:

 

[spatch]

I ask you then, is salvation (being saved) in works or by grace and faith?

Works, not faith. Faith is sort of a prerequisite.

Here is the parable of the 2 sons.

"What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work in the vineyard today.' And he answered, 'I will not,' but afterward he changed his mind and went. And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, 'I go, sir,' but did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him."


What does this mean? It is more important to FOLLOW the word of god, not just to hear and "believe" it.

 

[EEmain]

Is not grace the works of the spirit... then do we worship the spirit that dwells within or the man?

 

[spatch]

Is not grace the works of the spirit... then do we worship the spirit that dwells within or the man?

pray to the lord, he will hear your prayer and do as he promised (ie the parable of the sheep and the goats)

 

[B5150]

Pay Attention People

BBC NEWS | Americas | Killer's wife salutes Amish mercy

Killer's wife salutes Amish mercy

The widow of a man who shot dead five Amish girls at a school in the US state of Pennsylvania has thanked the Amish community for their love and support.

Marie Roberts said she and her family were "overwhelmed by the forgiveness, grace and mercy" shown to them following the murders on 2 October.

Local man Charles Roberts killed himself after his shooting spree.

The Amish have said they forgive him and have helped set up a fund for the Roberts family at a local bank.

"Your love for our family has helped to provide the healing we so desperately need," Marie Roberts wrote in a letter addressed to Amish friends, neighbours and the local community.

In the letter, released by a family spokesman, Mrs Roberts says she, her three young children and the rest of her family sincerely thank the Amish for their compassion.

The mother and grandmother of Marian Fisher, one of the young victims, welcomed Mrs Roberts' aunt into their home the day after the shootings, the local Lancaster newspaper reported on its website.

Mrs Roberts' grandfather also attended Marian's funeral.

Charles Roberts burst into the West Nickel Mines Amish School, killing five girls aged between seven and 13, and injuring another five before turning the gun on himself as police closed in.

'Hard days ahead'

In suicide notes left at his home, he made references to the 1997 death of his infant daughter, and said he was haunted by memories of molesting two young relatives 20 years ago.

Last Thursday, the bloodstained schoolhouse was demolished.

"Please know that our hearts have been broken by all that has happened. We are filled with sorrow for all of our Amish neighbours whom we have loved and continue to love," Mrs Roberts says in her letter.

"We know there are many hard days ahead for all the families who lost loved ones, and so we will continue to put our hope and trust in the God of all comfort, as we all seek to rebuild our lives," she wrote.

One of the injured girls is reported to have been released from hospital.

Barbie Fisher, 11, sister of Marian, was allowed home on Friday, her grandfather told the New Era of Lancaster newspaper.