Another Marijuana Myth Goes Up In Smoke by Paul Armentano

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  1. The problem CDB is that people seem to only care about the parts of the law like this when dealing with areas that affect them directly. In this case certain drugs. I won't argue that laws may be screwed but they are there.
    No, there shouldn't. One, because you don't know what any one person's intent is until you prove it with facts. Assuming it is just wrong
    A lot of law is based around certain facts to seemlingly prove others. i.e., they had prior selling charges, they were 35 miles from their house and had enough product on them at that time to supply personal use for 7-10 weeks.

    Could he have just just been walking through the school zone from a friends where he picked it up to suply himself because going on buys every other day was too much of a risk? Very well could be. I didin't write the laws and I know you didn't either but they are there.

    When dealing with law it sounds easy enough to just pull out a part we don't like and think it'll be fine but the puzzle that the law is makes pulling one piece usually mess other areas up that we don't see right away,


  2. Oh and a Charge /= a conviction.
    Saying no charges can be made without every provable fact out there would just take out the courts and put the cops as enforcement and judge. Certain criteria are met before a charge can be made but that doesn't mean they are enough to convict. What you are asking would be hell when applied to all law and not just the ones you feel passionate about.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    Oh and a Charge /= a conviction.
    Saying no charges can be made without every provable fact out there would just take out the courts and put the cops as enforcement and judge. Certain criteria are met before a charge can be made but that doesn't mean they are enough to convict. What you are asking would be hell when applied to all law and not just the ones you feel passionate about.
    It ain't supposed to be easy, Jay. If it is that's called a police state. I would argue that if the law were restricted to those areas classically considered criminal, that is not victimless crimes and the like, that the extra burden you speak of would not be an issue. It is precisely the massive over reaching of law makers in an attempt to legislate every single aspect of our existence that makes the measures you mention necessary. I understand your point on needing more to convict, my answer would be it's a bit weird to argue over the specifics of the application of a law that I really don't think should even be on the books to begin with.

  4. I can understand that. There's a lot of laws that I don't believe should be there to begin with or how genericly written they can be used by those wishing to bend the law to put you in a bad istuation.

    I also know people who were wrongfully pulled over but ended up being charged for much worse. Like revoked license and suspended tags etc. They are too scared to do anything and usually too broke to get a good lawyer. But that's a whole other story.

  5. I dont mean to be offencive, but I want you anti-pot dudes to answer me this question before you post anything else on this topic.

    How does myself smoking weed IN MY HOME, not opperating a vehicle for the rest of the day, affect ANYONE else on the planet other than myself.

    You give me a legit answer to this and I will NEVER say it should be legal again.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    That's where they lawmakers came in. Motive bro, it's throughout all your laws. The intent behind the crime changes the punishment. If you're going to get angry at that then you need to be equally angry with non drug related crimes that have it.
    If I attempt to sell weed, then charge me with selling. Kind of like a man who actually stabs you will get attempted murder as opposed to the guy with the knife in his pocket that never pulls it out.

  7. mr. bond we meet again. I hope this time your ready to meet your maker.

  8. How does myself smoking weed IN MY HOME, not opperating a vehicle for the rest of the day, affect ANYONE else on the planet other than myself.
    Law makers have decided that the people who do this are in the minority. Change the laws is all I cansay or move to a place that better serves your interests. Most of the laws and people i've voted for have never seen the light of day. I don't agree with a lot of the laws out there but they are there.


    When you find utopia please send me a email cause i'll pack my bags and join you.

  9. If I attempt to sell weed, then charge me with selling. Kind of like a man who actually stabs you will get attempted murder as opposed to the guy with the knife in his pocket that never pulls it out.
    Again, there's criteria that have to be met before a proper arrest can be made and that still will not always mean a conviction. I don't know what else to tell you.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    When you find utopia please send me a email cause i'll pack my bags and join you.
    I'll roll a fatty for everyone.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    I'll roll a fatty for everyone.

    AHH YEAH!


    I want to write a book before I die explaining how we can reach utopia on this planet. I really do think we can do it. I'll post it on this board.

    PS- Dont hold your breath. Something like that would only come from an old mans wisdom.

  12. I'll supply the weed, CDB. Just make sure the directions are clear cause I can **** up directions off mapquest.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    I can understand that. There's a lot of laws that I don't believe should be there to begin with or how genericly written they can be used by those wishing to bend the law to put you in a bad istuation.

    I also know people who were wrongfully pulled over but ended up being charged for much worse. Like revoked license and suspended tags etc. They are too scared to do anything and usually too broke to get a good lawyer. But that's a whole other story.
    Yes, a good lawyer can do a lot for you. In most cases the money you pay him/her will be a lot less than the damages assesed over the long term. Especially if someone is trying to hit you with charges that are not right or just.

    ManBeast

    P.S. Ya'll hit me up when ya roll that fattie
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  14. Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast
    Yes, a good lawyer can do a lot for you. In most cases the money you pay him/her will be a lot less than the damages assesed over the long term. Especially if someone is trying to hit you with charges that are not right or just.

    ManBeast

    P.S. Ya'll hit me up when ya roll that fattie
    Got to wait for Jay to raid the evidence room. Another reason I could never be a cop. All that stuff, not even the drugs, and it just sits there or gets sold to some putz.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    Got to wait for Jay to raid the evidence room. Another reason I could never be a cop. All that stuff, not even the drugs, and it just sits there or gets sold to some putz.

    A bunch was "misplaced" in a police department a town over from me a few months ago

  16. Quote Originally Posted by spatch
    A bunch was "misplaced" in a police department a town over from me a few months ago
    Doesn't surprise me. The best source for drugs when I was growing up was the cop who lived on my street. Best grass and coke I've had to date except for some dusted weed a friend of mine got a hold of once. That had a friend of mine under the kitchen table yelling something about Kurt Loder coming to get him. Then he turned green and barfed on the floor and then passed out. My friend Mike and I rolled a honey L and spent the rest of the night toking and finishing the other guy's share of White Castle.

    I swear, when I look back on my life sometimes I think I wasted a lot of it, but then sometimes I think it truly was fun and worth every minute.

    Sort of off the topic but one of my friends never got the smelly fingers bit after fingering his girl. He finally got it, and was riding home one night on his motor scooter, and yes I think the dumb prick was stoned, and he was sniffing his fingers inside his helmet and rode straight into the back of a parked GMC pick up. Broke his arm. Still hasn't lived it down.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    Sort of off the topic but one of my friends never got the smelly fingers bit after fingering his girl. He finally got it, and was riding home one night on his motor scooter, and yes I think the dumb prick was stoned, and he was sniffing his fingers inside his helmet and rode straight into the back of a parked GMC pick up. Broke his arm. Still hasn't lived it down.

    HAHA

    One of my friends once went up to my other friends gf (while the boyfriend was in the same room) while bent off his a$$ and said "you want to ****!?, because when I wake up in the morning none of this would have happened."

    I quite litterally ROFLed

  18. Quote Originally Posted by spatch
    HAHA

    One of my friends once went up to my other friends gf (while the boyfriend was in the same room) while bent off his a$$ and said "you want to ****!?, because when I wake up in the morning none of this would have happened."

    I quite litterally ROFLed


    Memories, hazy though they may be at times, can be fun.

  19. [QUOTE][Memories, hazy though they may be at times, can be fun./QUOTE]

    If I could just remember my memories......

  20. One of the very first times I toked was with two good friends who apparently made it a point to get the strongest stuff they could find and get me wasted. Well, they did and we were all standing around outside talking stupid talk when my one friend started bragging about his new fleece (this was a long time ago and fleeces were new and so was Gore Tex).

    He was talking up his new North Face parka and fleece liner all proud that he spent $400 bucks on this space suit when he adds "and the guy at the store told me the fleece is like flame proof."

    Weeelllllll, guess who was holding the lighter at the time? Yeah, me, and I say "Oh really? Let's check it out." and I hold the flame on his new fleece while we all just stood there and watched me do it for what must have been forever in stoner minutes.

    Poof! Fleece bubbles up and a big hole is formed while we stare at it. The victim finally snaps out of his stupor and screams "HEY!" and jumps back.

    We die laughing, of course.
  21. lutherblsstt
    lutherblsstt's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Marijuana has one of the lowest rates of addiction of any drug used, period. See the 1999 IOM report for a comparitive analysis of rates of addiction. But I suppose you're right. We need to stop the 'introduction' of a drug that's already here en masse, and keep locking people up for use, even though there are few if any consequences associated with recreational use. It's much easier to destroy people's lives and deprive those with medical conditions of a possible source of pain reduction than rethink the government propoganda that's been shoved down most people's throats.

  22. dpfisher
    dpfisher's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lutherblsstt View Post
    LOL this thread is 3 years old... been smoking much?

    As long as it's back here's my opinion: The government doesn't have the right to tell us what to put in our bodies. Until the 1930s it was considered your right to put whatever you want in your body. The FDA was created and required labeling of products and this was a good thing... but the resulting backlash and ban on morphine set a dangerous precedent that has cost billions of dollars and who knows how many innocent lives. If this were truly the land of the free we wouldn't take away people's freedom to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by dpfisher View Post
    LOL this thread is 3 years old... been smoking much?

    As long as it's back here's my opinion: The government doesn't have the right to tell us what to put in our bodies. Until the 1930s it was considered your right to put whatever you want in your body. The FDA was created and required labeling of products and this was a good thing... but the resulting backlash and ban on morphine set a dangerous precedent that has cost billions of dollars and who knows how many innocent lives. If this were truly the land of the free we wouldn't take away people's freedom to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.
    Legalize ridiculously addictive substances. Great idea. Look how well crack is doing for people. Nevermind the fact that taxpayers will ahve to pay their medical bills because they sure cant, and when they committ crimes to further their habit, again, society will take the brunt of it. Great great great idea.
  24. dpfisher
    dpfisher's Avatar

    Morphine used to be found in like half of OTC medicines and heroin used to be mailorder... people weren't killing each other over it and robbing random people nearly as much as happens today. Perhaps it helps to think of it as unban rather than legalize... it reminds you that it has not always been illegal. Sure it's destructive but the illegality of it only makes it more destructive.

    So I know you were being sarcastic but yes, it is a great idea.

    YouTube - Glenn Greenwald on Drug Decriminalization in Portugal

  25. Quote Originally Posted by dpfisher View Post
    LOL this thread is 3 years old... been smoking much?
    First thing that ran through my head too.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Legalize ridiculously addictive substances. Great idea. Look how well crack is doing for people.
    Yeah, imagine what it will be like when all those people who want to be useless crackheads but haven't been going that route because of the cost and legal risk now have the option. I know I personally have been wanting to mainline heroin every night and live in my own ****, but gods, the legal bills alone will kill you...

    Nevermind the fact that taxpayers will ahve to pay their medical bills because they sure cant, and when they committ crimes to further their habit, again, society will take the brunt of it. Great great great idea.
    Tax payers have voluntarily offerred to pay the medical bills of others. If they don't want to the legislatures are perfectly able of writing that exception into Medicare/Medicaid and any state level programs, or dumping pseudo-socialized medicine altogether so individuals alone bear the cost of the health decisions. In any event, partially nationalizing the health care industry and then complaining about having to pay the costs of people's stupid decisions is like knowingly buying a haunted house and then complaining about the creaky doors and the banging late at night. It comes with the territory. And if you want to use it as an excuse to dictate the health decisions of others then it shall also be used to dictate your health decisions too. So say goodbye to any habit or indulgence you enjoy but which can be shown to have health risks.

    And anyway, what would you rather pay, their medical bills, or their food and board once they're in prision, plus the cost of the security system on your house because the neighborhood that was once safe is now overrun with prohibition funded drug gangs, plus the extra costs for cops and courts necessary for enforcement, plus the cost of the ineffective but apparently necessary foreign military interventions and the violence that is spawned over seas and the lives that are destroyed, plus the cost of the massive corruption in law enforcement and justice systrems that's endemic to any attempt to prohibit drugs, plus the extra cost in lost freedoms which in time will eventually come back to bite you in the ass as readily as anyone else?

    The idea that society is somehow 'protected' from paying the toll for drug abuse by prohibition is about as naive as it's possible to get. Not only is society paying the toll for drug abuse anyway, it's paying the toll of the ineffective policy as well which is more massive and far reaching than having to pay for the methadone of some poor prick who can't keep his **** together. Not that I'm advocating that. As far as I'm concerned I would end socialized medicine so no one had to pay anyone's health bills, and anyone caught committing a crime under the influence of any drug would be punished as severely if not more so than if they were caught doing it sober.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    I'm sick of giving a pass to people on the "I'm just following orders" or "It's my job" lines.
    HAHAhahahaha.. oh man... CDB, you just made my freaking day... man... you just don't get off the same subject thread in and thread out. Lets just be glad it is not yourself giving the pass, your "pass" essentially means... and get this... not a damn thing.

    Oh man... tears CDB... freaking tears.

    Even three years ago you have a sense of humor.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  28. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    HAHAhahahaha.. oh man... CDB, you just made my freaking day... man... you just don't get off the same subject thread in and thread out. Lets just be glad it is not yourself giving the pass, your "pass" essentially means... and get this... not a damn thing.

    Oh man... tears CDB... freaking tears.

    Even three years ago you have a sense of humor.

    Adams
    If you're going to troll do so more skillfully. This is a pretty pathetic attempt.

    Gee, wonder if we look at your posts in the politics section from a few years ago if we'll see some of the same points coming up. Or were you a Michael Moore fan back then and only recently reformed?

  29. Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    If you're going to troll do so more skillfully. This is a pretty pathetic attempt.

    Gee, wonder if we look at your posts in the politics section from a few years ago if we'll see some of the same points coming up. Or were you a Michael Moore fan back then and only recently reformed?
    u mad?
    The Historic PES Legend
  30. lutherblsstt
    lutherblsstt's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Once more, tell that to the cops out here. Your opinion is in direct conflict with reality as I've witnessed and personally experienced.



    Once more, your statements show how divorced from reality you are on this subject. When discussing the WoD, especially on marijuana, government and proprohibition reps routinely site federal statistics of people locked up for weed when they damn well know that the vast majority of people serving time for weed possession and dealing are in state and local prisons and jails. It's a nonsense strategy that takes about one second to see through, but it's still used to somehow convince people that law enforcement is only concerned with big fish.



    My actions? Your reasoning seems to be that whatever the government decides to make illegal is just dandy, and anyone who violates the law however ridiculous, immoral and unethical that law is somehow has to 'take responsibility.' So I guess if they outlaw certain books all those authors they lock up will just have to ;take responsibility for their actions,' eh? ****ing bull**** subserviant state zombie attitude, and I'm so God damn sick of it. I truly hope one day the government decides it doesn't like something you or some member of your family does, and then they or you can 'take responsiblity' for your actions and sit and rot in prison next to some guy doing twenty years for possessing one more arbitrary dosage unit of weed or acid or whatever than the government thought he should have.
    A friend of mine (who I disagree with) was reading this and wants to post but only on this topic,so I let him use my account, he's an MMA guy and goes by "Rightintheface"

    Hi,I can't be bothered to set up an account but CDB and his points need to be addressed.

    I'm not subservient to the state. I participate in society and hold my responsibilities in higher regard than my rights to do stupid crap. Big difference.

    I don't smoke because I don't want to smoke, and I believe that if you want to smoke, you ought to campaign for its legalization. At that point, smoke away (even though I'll still think it's dumb).

    This idea that you don't hurt anyone is not as clear-cut as you make it.

    Everything has consequences, and maybe your pot smoking (I don't even know if you actually smoke,so this is hypothetical) might not have major consequences, but it also might.

    You are part of a society. Societies are built upon social contracts. When certain people break those contracts, that damages society's cohesiveness. The less intelligent among them take things to extremes and then we have truly ridiculous or terrible behavior. I see so many places in this society where people cry like infants about their rights but pay no mind to their responsibilities to society.

    I see so much in this society dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Pot is not the cause of it, but it most certainly plays its part.

    And again, doing it in this "civil disobedience" manner is what I care more about. Even if it's legal I think it's stupid, but I think the same thing about boozehounds or my sister's caffeine dependence or my mom's 30 year smoking habit. It's stupid and irresponsible, but at least it's legal.

    The laws are there for a reason. This one isn't there for a necessarily good one, but to pretend that disobeying one law has no effect outside it's immediate context is the dumbest argument I can imagine.
  

  
 

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