Tribulus Inneffective?

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  1. Tribulus Inneffective?


    1: J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23. Related Articles, Links
    Click here to read
    The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.

    Neychev VK, Mitev VI.

    Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. [email protected]

    OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

    Publication Types:

    * Randomized Controlled Trial


    PMID: 15994038 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


  2. Totally not surprised. Its not at all ironic that Trib. products exploded on the market after the first prohormone ban. Trib has been around for a long time. Certain blends may do something, but I've personally never experienced it. Herbs like Maca and Fenugreek have much more pronounced, and studied, effect.
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  3. That is very strange. I do notice an effect on both Fenugreek and Tribulus separately. If they don't exert "androgen stimulating" effects, they certainly increase something that increases libido.
    PharmD

  4. again I was not surprised by this. I think someone did some bloodtests using trib a while back and had bad results.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2
    again I was not surprised by this. I think someone did some bloodtests using trib a while back and had bad results.
    "BAD" results, or NO results ?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    "BAD" results, or NO results ?
    Exactly. I am not sure by what pathways tribulus works through but it really does increase libido for me and I highly doubt its placebo as it has been replicated. And considering all of the others, Fenu, MACA, etc. are all saponins like Trib. I find it hard to believe that everyone who have used these saw only a placebo effect. Although the increased libido could be mediated through other pathways besides testosterone.
    PharmD

  7. Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    "BAD" results, or NO results ?
    honestly it has been so long ago I forget if there was an increase in estrogen or just not a rise in test. It would probably take forever for me to find that post.

  8. In the first study, Antonio and colleagues (9) evaluated the effects of Tribulus terrestris supplementation
    during training on body composition and performance. In a double blind and randomized manner, 15
    resistance-trained males ingested either 3.21 mg/kg/day of a placebo (P) or Tribulus terrestris (T) for eight
    weeks during a standardized resistance-training program. Prior to and following supplementation,
    subjects completed dietary inventories, a mood state psychological inventory, and had body composition
    (skinfolds and hydrostatic weighing) and total body water (bioelectrical impedance) measurements
    determined. The subjects also performed a maximum repetition tests on the bench press and leg press at
    100% and 200% of body weight, respectively. Results revealed that Tribulus terrestris supplementation
    had no significant effects on changes in mood states, total body weight (P +0.6, T +0.9 kg), total body
    water (P +0.9, T +0.3 liters), hydrostatically determined percent body fat (P +0.2, T +0.0 %), or gains in
    bench press (P +28.4, T +3.1 %) or leg press (P +26.1, T +28.6 %) muscle endurance. Although LH and
    testosterone levels were not assessed in this study, results indicated that Tribulus terrestris
    supplementation (approximately 250 mg/day) during resistance training had no significant effects on body
    composition or training adaptations.

    Proponents of Tribulus terrestris supplementation have suggested that the dosage in the previous study
    may have been insufficient, that Tribulus terrestris may be more effective when coingested with other
    anabolic precursors, and/or that Tribulus terrestris may have a greater impact on untrained subjects
    initiating training. However, research findings from a study by Brown and associates (10) do not support
    these contentions. In the first part of this study, 10 subjects were evaluated to determine the effects of
    ingesting a placebo or anabolic precursors on hormone levels. Subjects had fasting blood determined and
    then ingested a placebo or a supplement containing 100 mg androstenedione, 50 mg DHEA, 250 mg
    Tribulus terrestris, 195 mg Chrysin, 100 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 180 mg Saw palmetto. Blood samples
    were obtained every hour for six hours. Results revealed that anabolic precursor supplementation
    significantly increased androstenedione levels. However, no significant differences were between the
    placebo and anabolic precursor trials in LH, follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), estradiol, free
    testosterone, or total testosterone levels. These findings suggest that although anabolic precursors may
    increase androstenedione levels, they have no significant acute effect on other androgenic or estrogenic
    hormones.
    PharmD

  9. I am reading multiple studies now, however, that say when fed to rats aphrodesiac activity definitely increased.

    Either way I would take it during PCT to increase libido
    PharmD

  10. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    I am reading multiple studies now, however, that say when fed to rats aphrodesiac activity definitely increased.

    Either way I would take it during post cycle therapy to increase libido
    Yeah, most of the studies I read seem to imply Trib is useless for muscle, but a good addition for libido. Also, Maca has been proven to raise Test and LH in a bunch of studies I've read, so it is definitely legit.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males.
    I've had some moderate libido increases when using quality trib products. I would have never expected it to do much for young males, which is the group studied here. I'd like to see a study using old bastages like me.

    dd

  12. Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave
    I've had some moderate libido increases when using quality trib products. I would have never expected it to do much for young males, which is the group studied here. I'd like to see a study using old bastages like me.

    dd
    I had seen a few on 21-70 year old males, don't know where in that bastage category you fall, but I'll do some more digging.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    I am reading multiple studies now, however, that say when fed to rats aphrodesiac activity definitely increased.

    Either way I would take it during post cycle therapy to increase libido
    Right- I remember reading studies showing that trib was preatty useless for muscle gains. But I have always felt something from it, even it came from an increase in estrogen and the accompaning test increase (although no study supports that that I am aware of,.. this was just my assumption).

    Interesting though, that in the study you had posted, the andro, DHEA and other precursers did nothing as well. because I know when I take DHEA, it feels like I have a spike in test production.

    Anywyas- Trib will remain a staple in PCT, until there are more definitive answers as to what it is I feel when I take it

  14. And, if you thought it couldn't be done...

    Gynaecomastia and the plant product "Tribulis terrestris".

    Jameel JK, Kneeshaw PJ, Rao VS, Drew PJ.

    Academic Surgical Unit, Castle Hill Hospital, University of Hull, Cottingham, East Yorkshire HU16 5JQ, UK.

    Gynaecomastia is the commonest benign breast condition seen in men. It is well recognised that certain drugs that alter the normal sex hormonal profile in the body can induce gynaecomastia. Recently, an increasing use of androgenic-anabolic steroids among young men especially body-builders has increased the incidence of gynaecomastia. We report a case of a young weight-trainer who developed gynaecomastia due to oral intake of a herbal tablet which he used as a steroid alternative for body-building.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    -Ummmm,.. well, who knows, but how is it well known that Trib alters hormons, yet all the studies say otherwise..

  15. Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    And, if you thought it couldn't be done...

    Gynaecomastia and the plant product "Tribulis terrestris".

    Jameel JK, Kneeshaw PJ, Rao VS, Drew PJ.

    Academic Surgical Unit, Castle Hill Hospital, University of Hull, Cottingham, East Yorkshire HU16 5JQ, UK.

    Gynaecomastia is the commonest benign breast condition seen in men. It is well recognised that certain drugs that alter the normal sex hormonal profile in the body can induce gynaecomastia. Recently, an increasing use of androgenic-anabolic steroids among young men especially body-builders has increased the incidence of gynaecomastia. We report a case of a young weight-trainer who developed gynaecomastia due to oral intake of a herbal tablet which he used as a steroid alternative for body-building.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    -Ummmm,.. well, who knows, but how is it well known that Trib alters hormons, yet all the studies say otherwise..

    Yeah, I saw that study as well.

  16. Well Damn! -Ok, now This....

    Ingestion of a dietary supplement containing dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and androstenedione has minimal effect on immune function in middle-aged men.

    Kohut ML, Thompson JR, Campbell J, Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Jackson DA, King DS.

    Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA. [email protected]

    OBJECTIVE: This study investigated the effects of four weeks of intake of a supplement containing dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), androstenedione and herbal extracts on immune function in middle-aged men. DESIGN: Subjects consumed either an oral placebo or an oral supplement for four weeks. The supplement contained a total daily dose of 150 mg DHEA, 300 mg androstenedione, 750 mg Tribulus terrestris, 625 mg chrysin, 300 mg indole-3-carbinol and 540 mg saw palmetto. MEASUREMENTS: Peripheral blood mononuclear cells were used to assess phytohemagglutinin(PHA)-induced lymphocyte proliferation and cytokine production. The cytokines measured were interleukin (IL)-2, IL-4, IL-10, IL-1beta, and interferon (IFN)-gamma. Serum free testosterone, androstenedione, estradiol, dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were also measured. RESULTS: The supplement significantly increased serum levels of androstenedione, free testosterone, estradiol and DHT during week 1 to week 4. Supplement intake did not affect LPS or ConA proliferation and had minimal effect on PHA-induced proliferation. LPS-induced production of IL-1beta, and PHA-induced IL-2, IL-4, IL-10, or IFN-gamma production was not altered by the supplement. The addition of the same supplement, DHEA or androstenedione alone to lymphocyte cultures in vitro did not alter lymphocyte proliferation, IL-2, IL-10, or IFN-gamma, but did increase IL-4. In addition, serum HDL-C concentration significantly declined. CONCLUSION: These findings suggest that, although chronic intake of a complex dietary supplement containing DHEA, androstenedione and herbal extracts increases serum androgen levels, it has minimal effect on immune function in middle-aged men.


    Ok- here is my stance. Ive wasted money in the past on supplements,.... as of yet, trib has done me no wrong.

    This was mainly to the study LMD posted stateing that Andro, DHEA and other herbals had no noticable effect on hormone levels. free test..... Not that I hold much stock to one study over the other.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    Well Damn! -Ok, now This....

    Ingestion of a dietary supplement containing dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and androstenedione has minimal effect on immune function in middle-aged men.

    Kohut ML, Thompson JR, Campbell J, Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Jackson DA, King DS.

    Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA. [email protected]

    OBJECTIVE: This study investigated the effects of four weeks of intake of a supplement containing dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), androstenedione and herbal extracts on immune function in middle-aged men. DESIGN: Subjects consumed either an oral placebo or an oral supplement for four weeks. The supplement contained a total daily dose of 150 mg DHEA, 300 mg androstenedione, 750 mg Tribulus terrestris, 625 mg chrysin, 300 mg indole-3-carbinol and 540 mg saw palmetto. MEASUREMENTS: Peripheral blood mononuclear cells were used to assess phytohemagglutinin(PHA)-induced lymphocyte proliferation and cytokine production. The cytokines measured were interleukin (IL)-2, IL-4, IL-10, IL-1beta, and interferon (IFN)-gamma. Serum free testosterone, androstenedione, estradiol, dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were also measured. RESULTS: The supplement significantly increased serum levels of androstenedione, free testosterone, estradiol and DHT during week 1 to week 4. Supplement intake did not affect LPS or ConA proliferation and had minimal effect on PHA-induced proliferation. LPS-induced production of IL-1beta, and PHA-induced IL-2, IL-4, IL-10, or IFN-gamma production was not altered by the supplement. The addition of the same supplement, DHEA or androstenedione alone to lymphocyte cultures in vitro did not alter lymphocyte proliferation, IL-2, IL-10, or IFN-gamma, but did increase IL-4. In addition, serum HDL-C concentration significantly declined. CONCLUSION: These findings suggest that, although chronic intake of a complex dietary supplement containing DHEA, androstenedione and herbal extracts increases serum androgen levels, it has minimal effect on immune function in middle-aged men.


    Ok- here is my stance. Ive wasted money in the past on supplements,.... as of yet, trib has done me no wrong.

    This was mainly to the study LMD posted stateing that Andro, DHEA and other herbals had no noticable effect on hormone levels. free test..... Not that I hold much stock to one study over the other.

    It depends on age bro. I posted a pretty big thread about it in the forum recently. But you have to look at the ages bro. In younger males you are NOT going to see statistically significant increases unless you are taking 500+mg daily, which is a $hit-ton. It is best if kept to PCT (where our levels mimic those of elderly adults) and for people 40+.
    PharmD

  18. I know- I remember that thread.
    The study say "middle-aged" men. That could be a pretty large range though.
    It also wasnt JUST the DHEA - the conflicting reports on Andro & Trib also.
    These tests kinda remind me of "ANDRO 6" ... remember that stuff???.. Bunch of kids at millitary school were taking it, getting good results... (That is, until they were busted with real anabolic steroids, and for me, thats when this whole "contravercy" started

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    I had seen a few on 21-70 year old males, don't know where in that bastage category you fall, but I'll do some more digging.
    LOL, I'm about a middle bastage in that category.
    <-- see over here in my info?

  20. Good thread. I have a product from Syntrax which claims to be a matrix of saponins from various sources (trib, fenugreek, others that I can't recall). I can't link it because none of the board sponsors sell it. Anyone had any experience with blend products like this?

  21. Well, if I'm not mistaken Powerfull is a blend of Saponins with Muira Puama and it is one of the most effective products I have used.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    Well, if I'm not mistaken Powerfull is a blend of Saponins with Muira Puama and it is one of the most effective products I have used.
    Oooooh, good point. Nothing but positive feedback on Powerfull.

  23. Haha yea explain that one. People are seeing great strength increases.
    PharmD

  24. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    Haha yea explain that one. People are seeing great strength increases.
    Devil's advocate says placebo.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    Haha yea explain that one. People are seeing great strength increases.
    I wish I knew more about plant biology, b/c it would seem the extraction proccess obviously does have a significant impact on performance.
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