[Aeternitatis]

Originally Posted by Ronin13

I have too many years of "gov't" experience to over look some of the obvious inconsistencies with the whole situation. I admit that with every situation you will have the conspiracy theorists drumming up stupid stuff but with some many "unbelievable" occurences during the 9.11 tragedy, I have to keep an open mind and do not completely subscribe to any one theory.

what govt experience is that?

[Ronin13]

let's just say various totaling more than 14 years

[jarhead]

What I find really odd is how in the 2 threads on this topic, the people who believe the governments story do nothing but throw out insults , make jokes, and ignore most of the things brought up by the "conspiracy whackos". Sure you guys address a few, but there are so many inconsistancies, coincidences, and longshot, first time in history events to overlook. I consider myself a sane person. Too sane to just write this stuff off , turn a blind eye to it, and put 100% faith in my governments halfassed investigation and story. If that makes me crazy, so be it. I don't claim to know 100% what happened, but to me it does not add up the way the government says it does.

[Lanbane]

http://home.debitel.net/user/andreas...e/defaulte.htm

For anyone who questions the whole 9/11 thing, or for those of you that don't.... have a look here at the Pentagon stuff especially.
Me? No, I am not saying it's all a conspiracy, but I think it's common sense that we aren't being told everything. The U.S. gov't is as guilty of propaganda and censorship as any place in the world. Just do some searches for books related to 9/11 that take a "conspiracy" twist. You can find tons of books that sold TONS of copies elsewhere in the world.... that have never been seen or mentioned in the U.S.

[Ronin13]

Probably could not have said it better myself jarhead...

It really is just too much to swallow and if you look back through history how some US gov't agencies have lied and manipulated for the 'good' of the country - it is madness

[Lanbane]

I've done enough reading on the forum related to this topic, or other similar items... but managed to bite my tongue so far. Anyone who wants to completely accept the Gov't story needs to 1. look over the history of flight, and the wreckage from some of the worst accidents, 2. compare that to the incidents on 9/11. It's probably impossible to find a case where the ENGINES of a plane were supposedly vaporized. (I am referring to Pennsylvania and the Pentagon). The above link may show some of this, I am not positive....
Job is emergency planning-terrorism/bioterrorism specific. And even I question our Gov't sometimes. lol

[SHADOW2492]

Here are three videos first one is 5 min 35 seconds about has over 20 types of explosives detonate in it I defy you to find one that has a shockwave as slow as in the video or even looks similar. Second video is of over 15-20 attacks on American armored vehicles using different varieties of explosives. Third video is of Detcord , its a type of explosive similar to C4, usually PETN (pentaerythritol Tetranitrate) with the same PIB (polyisobutylene) binder. Please point out one explosive that resembles the one in said video and moves just as slow. If you don't see a explosive in these videos that resemble it , is because none do it was a FUEL DEFLAGERATION or even a low order detonation of the fuel.
http://media.putfile.com/det_0002
http://media.putfile.com/VERYNEW-JUNE_0003
http://media.putfile.com/detcord

Originally Posted by Ronin13

100% sure????? That is mighty bold my friend. I wouldn't bet my next paycheck on either theory let alone say I was 100% sure about anything like this.

You mean the theory of thousands of people seeing a plane hit the building. or the one from the conspriracy site with 5 morons being quoted as saying it was a missle? Did you read what I said about explosives?Have you ever seen a real bomb go off? they dont look anything like that.

Originally Posted by ronin13

I just find it very difficult to believe if such a definitive video disproving any conspiracy theory took nearly five years to surface. Wait... oh, I see... it took them five years to fabricate such a video...

I know eh it must be hard to understand since you seem to be ignoring the fact that it was used as evidence. The 9/11 videos came out because many people were taping. The government cannot stop that from coming out, because it was out minutes after. You must not be working for the government to think it would take them 5 years to fabricate a video.
I figured any conspiracy was pretty much destroyed when the whole world saw planes hit the WTC LIVE . I will play the devil's advocate here. For the sake of argument we'll say you are right and the government was behind 9/11,do you realize it makes absolutely no sense that the government would use 2 real planes to hit the world trade center by remote control than use some missle ( LOL I use this term loosely) on the Pentagon, and have a plane crash in a field for nothing, why in Gods green earth do you think they would use real planes for all other attacks then use something that could easily prove it was a military endeavor? They wouldn't , it is absolutely retarded and there is no way any military general would allow such a foolish plan to go forward. anyone even sharing 1 brain with 35 people would see this was foolish. They did not, it simply ignores facts of people who have dead family members, eye witnesses on the ground ,things like pictures of jet engines.Some people even think that the jet nose CONE couldnt have punched the hole in the pentagon, well it can it is really simple to see why. It was not a shaped charge due to the size of the hole the charge would have had to have been about 1 foot across, and detonate about 20-30 feet away from the hole for the explosively formed penetrator to actually form. Also shaped charges are not going to happen with any low order or lower energy explosives, you need high grade ,high explosives.

Originally Posted by JARHEAD

Sure you guys address a few, but there are so many inconsistancies, coincidences, and longshot, first time in history events to overlook.

Please actually point out any inconsistancies in any of my statements, if you find my claims are factual, logical, and consistant, it probably means I am right.

[MaynardMeek]

i am 100% sure that airplanes were used.. i have too many friends and family involved to have my not know otherwise... i never said i was 100% sure on WHY it happened or what happened after the planes hit.



How do i quote the advertisment posting thing!

[SHADOW2492]

Originally Posted by Lanbane

I've done enough reading on the forum related to this topic, or other similar items... but managed to bite my tongue so far. Anyone who wants to completely accept the Gov't story needs to 1. look over the history of flight, and the wreckage from some of the worst accidents, 2. compare that to the incidents on 9/11. It's probably impossible to find a case where the ENGINES of a plane were supposedly vaporized. (I am referring to Pennsylvania and the Pentagon). The above link may show some of this, I am not positive....
Job is emergency planning-terrorism/bioterrorism specific. And even I question our Gov't sometimes. lol

Go back and read my long winded post, you must not be looking hard enough because there are pictures of plane engines floating around on the net. Your post is very insightful and chalk full of facts. I may think the goverment is not fully truthful in this matter, but it is wholeheartedly ridiculous to think no planes were involved in either WTC , Pentagon, or even the Pensalvania field.

[goldylight]

if it was a missle as you say why did the explosion go from the side of the building out - meaning you saw the fireball explode away from the building. if it were a missle, dont you think it would have penetreted further and exploded inside just like a missle is supposed ot do. now this would have to be a high tech missle like a cruise missle to get that angle anyway.

[goldylight]

Originally Posted by ronin13

I just find it very difficult to believe if such a definitive video disproving any conspiracy theory took nearly five years to surface. Wait... oh, I see... it took them five years to fabricate such a video...


So was this where we faked the moon landing too?

[goldylight]

9/11: Debunking The Myths
PM examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

click the image galleries on the left:
http://www.rememberthe11th.com/imagesGallery.html

[MaynardMeek]

Plane Parts



I forgot what this is the pic of but i think its the data of where the plane, passangers etc were found





Lamp posts that were taken out by the plane



Windows of the Airplane WTC

[Ronin13]

OK guys - don't get your panties in a bunch. I wasn't pointing the finger at any of you and screaming morons or anything. Just a sharing of info if you must call it something.

Not sure how the moon landing came up but that is pretty funny for you to mention that.

We really don't know sh1t about each other so I will not go around questioning anyone's expertise no matter what they claim however, there are at least 100 experts on either side of the table disputing each other's claim...... nevertheless, if you were to approach the pentagon crash site with an open mind and really look at the evidence it is pretty interesting that they claim a 757 jet crashed there but yet there wasn't a shread of evidence proving this.... oh wait... right.. the video that just surfaced after 5 years....

[Ronin13]

BTW, I wasn't disputing that planes crashed into WTC. My questioning is surrounding the pentagon.

[MaynardMeek]

i know, but the website you used as a source said it was all blue screen work for the WTC.. so i just added it..

PS i know you aren't calling anyone morons....

i will not get into a moon landing debate.. i do not care.. i hate nasa and it is a waste of money... :-)

EDIT.. i hate nasa but i do not think we should abandon space work.. but the airforce should do that.. not Nasa...

EDIT EDIT.. i also hate jell-0

[SHADOW2492]

Originally Posted by Ronin13

nevertheless, if you were to approach the pentagon crash site with an open mind and really look at the evidence it is pretty interesting that they claim a 757 jet crashed there but yet there wasn't a shread of evidence proving this.... oh wait... right.. the video that just surfaced after 5 years....

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

There are at least 10+ pictures of debris here that conspiracy sites fail to post. Landing gear, the diffusor of the compressor,and a tire and Rim that are the exact same size and shape and ahve same pattern in the rim as a 757. and the rubber has exact same tread pattern as 757 tire.
Of course you dont see a shred of evidence because you are bull headed and refuse to view anything that might prove you wrong. Its hard to see flaws in your argument if you close your eyes when presented them. If you read my earlier post, and had a shred of logic in you you would realize that even if the government was behind it they would still use a plane like the other attacks. I still find it hard to believe you work in the goverment and you fail to address any facts I have put forward, Do you think anyone of average intelligence or above would believe that they (government)would need 5 years to make a fake film?

[jarhead]

Originally Posted by SHADOW2492

Please actually point out any inconsistancies in any of my statements, if you find my claims are factual, logical, and consistant, it probably means I am right.

I meant inconsistancies in the governments official story. As for the rest of your post , it's your theory, but it's no more fact than any other theory on either side. At this point, neither side can actually prove anything. And no, an aluminum cone will not break thru 9 feet of concrete. What you tried to say about shaped charges does not change that.