Afgan Christian Faces Death Penalty:

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    Afgan Christian Faces Death Penalty:


    Afghanistan says fate of convert up to the court
    Man could face death penalty if he refuses to return to Islam

    Updated: 6:13 a.m. ET March 22, 2006
    KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghanistan said on Wednesday the judiciary would rule on a man facing death for converting to Christianity after the United States and three NATO allies with troops in Afghanistan urged respect for religious freedom.

    An Afghan judge said this week a man named Abdur Rahman had been jailed for converting from Islam to Christianity and could face the death penalty if he refused to become a Muslim again.

    Sharia, or Islamic law, stipulates death for apostasy. Afghanistan’s legal system is based on a mixture of civil and sharia law.

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    “We in Afghanistan have the prosecutor who observes the law and the court that executes it. Whatever the court orders will be executed as the court is independent,” said Mahaiuddin Baluch, an adviser on religious affairs to President Hamid Karzai.

    International outcry
    The case has raised alarm in the United States and Europe and is sensitive for Karzai.

    The president depends on foreign troops to battle Taliban and al-Qaida militants, and foreign aid to support the economy, but also has to take into consideration the views of conservative proponents of Islamic law.

    Asked about the international outcry, Baluch said: “Everybody has the right to express their view.”

    The United States, which counts Karzai as a key ally in the region, raised the case with visiting Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah on Tuesday, calling on Kabul to uphold Afghan citizens’ constitutional right to choose their faith.

    “We hope that the Afghan constitution is going to be upheld and in our view, if it’s upheld, then of course he’ll be found to be innocent,” said Nicholas Burns, the U.S. State Department’s third-ranked diplomat.

    Italian Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini has said Rahman would probably not be executed.

    Fini, whose country was one of the four with troops in Afghanistan to speak out about the case, told Italian television late on Tuesday he had indications the Islamic punishment for apostasy would not be imposed on Abdul Rahman.

    “From what I’ve been told, and I have no reason to doubt it, the death sentence will not be carried out,” said Fini. He gave no other details.

    Campaign to withdrawal Italian troops
    Earlier, Italy called in the Afghan ambassador in Rome, two Berlin cabinet ministers spoke out and Germany’s top Catholic cardinal demanded Rahman’s freedom. Canada said it was concerned and urged Kabul to meet its human rights obligations.

    Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga wrote to Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, now campaigning for re-election, and urged him to withdraw Italian troops from Afghanistan unless he won assurances from Kabul over Rahman’s safety.

    Abdullah said his government had “nothing to do” with the judicial case, but added: “I hope that through our constitutional process, there will be a satisfactory result.”

    The Afghan embassy in Washington had received “hundreds of messages” from Americans about the case, Abdullah said.

    “I know that it is a very sensitive issue and we know the concerns of the American people,” he said.

    One political analyst in Kabul said the case might hinge on differing interpretations of the constitution.

    Afghanistan is a conservative Islamic country and 99 per cent of its more than 25 million people are Muslim. A court sentenced two Afghan journalists to death for blasphemy three years ago but they escaped and sought asylum abroad.
    My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html

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    Stuff like this makes me really
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    II Timothy
    3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

    I'd be glad if I were him, but they probably won't enforce the penalty anyway.
    •   
       

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    Yay, this sha'll doth be the first case in this country which sha'll then be ruled in favor of religious understanding and diversity... this will be the mile stone, and ground work so they all may see .. " see how much better this country is"
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    and people say that we are the evil ones......
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    dude.. we are evil... we made a dictator live up to the 16 UN resolutions passed against him... how dare we... we also took that clear pepsi off the market.... we are spreading our walmart empire.. that just gave 150K jobs in china.. uhmm.. ok now this is the WORST.. when the ice cream man drives by.. we yell STOP!!! from the windows of our house to watch him back up and wait.... for no one.....oh yeah we wish for India to hold nuclear abilities but while at the same time we tell Iran they can't. It doesn't matter that India wants to be a part of the IAEA and Iran wants to poop on the IAEA....ok i'm done... and last but not least.. YOUR AVATAR PICTURE MRS GIMPY!



    ;-)
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    religion is responsible for more wars and more deaths over the span of history than i cant count. the funny thing is that islam and christianity both have the same god, ony christians consider jesus divine and muslims consider him only a prophet.

    its funny how almost every religion holds some of the same doctrine. "our religion is the ONE AND ONLY way to salvation". conversion of others is of course, a must. its amazing how there are thousands of different religions, ALL EQUALLY CONVINCED OF THEIR OWN LEGITAMACY.

    religions can overlap 99% but people are willing to kill over that 1% people dont agree on, even if their opposing religons branched from the same religion. people can kill and torture each other over trivial points in doctrine, fanatical leaders can lead thousands or million in whatever direction they desire based on "faith".

    religion may have been necessary to hold people together at one point, and still serves its purpose in this fashion occasionally, otherwise i would say it is one of the greatest evils mankind has ever known
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    The irony of invading Afghanistan but allowing state executions of apostates notwithstanding the feeble pleas of the governer of Kabul.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822
    religion is responsible for more wars and more deaths over the span of history than i cant count. the funny thing is that islam and christianity both have the same god, ony christians consider jesus divine and muslims consider him only a prophet.
    ............
    You left out the whole part about the core beliefs of all 3 Abrahamaic religions are held to be blasphemous by each other.

    Associating a human being with God, even a prophet like Jesus is the ultimate blasphemy in Islam.
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    yeah! and i bet they don't know how to use the 3 sea shells!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822
    religion is responsible for more wars and more deaths over the span of history than i cant count. the funny thing is that islam and christianity both have the same god, ony christians consider jesus divine and muslims consider him only a prophet.

    its funny how almost every religion holds some of the same doctrine. "our religion is the ONE AND ONLY way to salvation". conversion of others is of course, a must. its amazing how there are thousands of different religions, ALL EQUALLY CONVINCED OF THEIR OWN LEGITAMACY.

    religions can overlap 99% but people are willing to kill over that 1% people dont agree on, even if their opposing religons branched from the same religion. people can kill and torture each other over trivial points in doctrine, fanatical leaders can lead thousands or million in whatever direction they desire based on "faith".

    religion may have been necessary to hold people together at one point, and still serves its purpose in this fashion occasionally, otherwise i would say it is one of the greatest evils mankind has ever known
    MONOtheistic religions, particulary those of the Abrahamic tradition are the cause of 90% of the problem.

    Why else would an Evangelical Church adopt an Isreali settlement in the west bank if not to bring about the endtime as they see it? http://www.theocracywatch.org/christian_zionism.htm

    Caution opposing viewpoint
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    sure.. i agree.. because that has been the most common view and understand of relgion in the past couple thousand years... the one god theory...

    but ask Conan about Krum and his wars..


    religion is great.. if you can form a social system that doesn't care about their neighbor ( in some ways) ... America started out to be much like islamic nations.. but now.. we have been taught the don't ask don't tell aspect of life regarding... politics, religion, and sex....so here we are today.

    I am shocked and in awe of how many people live in the USA... and how much the majority of the people do not care... that is awesome... one of the best aspects of a form of economic society we have... everyone for themselves.. but.. we get to enjoy what those people bring forth... mostly.. FOOD lol
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    The fact that a religious sect would even have a law like that is ridiculous. Fortunately not all Islamics are so anal. This woman says it best...
    http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.a...050wmv&ak=null
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    too bad that woman's head will be removed from her body in 4 days
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    this is yet another example that the threat we are facing is not a "tiny minority of extremists" but emerges straight from the Koran and many "moderate" Muslims themselves. Witness the recent case of the North Carolina Muslim terrorist who was a "normal" college student until he decided he had to kill the infidels.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010737.php
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    People are the problem, not religion. You can become an extremist about anything. Religion is only a tool used by those already demented enough to cause harm to others.

    James
    1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
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    But people made religion....and in seminary i learned that being made by man, religion is flawed... there is no religion in God but only created to help those with lesser minds of God to understand..... to find a place.. to make secure....
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaynardMeek
    But people made religion....and in seminary i learned that being made by man, religion is flawed... there is no religion in God but only created to help those with lesser minds of God to understand..... to find a place.. to make secure....

    my thoughts exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrownedOne
    People are the problem, not religion. You can become an extremist about anything. Religion is only a tool used by those already demented enough to cause harm to others.

    James
    1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
    religion was created by man. it was created as a means of control and serves that purpose today especially in the islamic tradition. organized religion is held in the hands of men, not god, and is as corrupt as the people wielding the power. 1 person can lay down the doctrine for millions/billions with some careful wordplay or perhaps a few "visions". the world would be a better place if organized religion was done away with altogether.
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    I know that the Qur'an is a legitimate and authoritative holy scripture since it is completely validated by modern science and also mathematically encoded with the number 19 beyond human ability.
    <-- fron the article you posted.

    I don't know how he can call himself intelligent and then give this statement no how the quran is validated by modern science. what a douchebag...
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    charges were dropped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822
    religion was created by man. it was created as a means of control and serves that purpose today especially in the islamic tradition. organized religion is held in the hands of men, not god, and is as corrupt as the people wielding the power. 1 person can lay down the doctrine for millions/billions with some careful wordplay or perhaps a few "visions". the world would be a better place if organized religion was done away with altogether.
    Like Hitler and Stalin better? Sign me up!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822

    religion may have been necessary to hold people together at one point, and still serves its purpose in this fashion occasionally, otherwise i would say it is one of the greatest evils mankind has ever known
    People kill over money and love so would it be evil to love and have money ? I think not. Religion is great when used properly, just like anything, just like steroids.
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    Religion in and of itself is quite good. It is when the HUMAN tries to enter upon the divine that the problems start.

    Any Fundies, and I mean any, that literally interpet scripture as the ONLY Divine revelation of GOD belongs to them sets up conflict. The human need to feel superior as in ONLY WE have the truth is the problem. Then we get into the wackos that think they personally must bring about the revelation as if GOD has personally chosen ONLY them to work in the world. And don`t feel your superior because we as a so called Christian Nation* don`t have suicide bombers. We are just much more subtle than that.

    Come on people WAKE UP! Scripture is meant to inspire and uplift, to take us to a higher place of exisistance. Not to be weilded in verbal combat like a sword.
    Or used as a weapon in a real war.


    *Exactly when this happened I am not sure. "In God we trust" is not in any of the founding Documents. And "One Nation under God " was added to the pledge in the 1950`s.
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    Actually, the oathe, "So help me God" was insitituted by good ol' George Washington.

    The bloody Constitution is wrought with faith statements.

    I beleive the Liberty Bell has a Bible passage engraved on it. So yeah, "its" been going on quite some time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by custom
    Like Hitler and Stalin better? Sign me up!!!!
    Good point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by custom
    Actually, the oathe, "So help me God" was insitituted by good ol' George Washington.

    The bloody Constitution is wrought with faith statements.

    I beleive the Liberty Bell has a Bible passage engraved on it. So yeah, "its" been going on quite some time.
    The word GOD does not appear in the constitution... or Jesus or Christianity.

    Don`t read Deism to mean Theism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    The word GOD does not appear in the constitution... or Jesus or Christianity.

    Don`t read Deism to mean Theism.
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1298911/posts
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    I really can give a rats ass about a christian nation, I don't have any conviction of the sort.

    However, I think its ridiculous of non-christians to think that there wasn't significant influence on the constitution by christianity. God, as the christians know him, is definitely "a part of" (not in writing per se) the constitution and the foundation of America as is christianity...it is our foundation and its ridiculous to think otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrownedOne

    T.J.,B.F., Paine and GW off the top of my head where Deist not Exclusive Monotheists... how many do you think knew GOD as the GAOTU?

    The creator mentioned in the Dec. of Ind. was a Deist input not a theists

    http://www.deism.com/paine_essay01.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    I really can give a rats ass about a christian nation, I don't have any conviction of the sort.

    However, I think its ridiculous of non-christians to think that there wasn't significant influence on the constitution by christianity. God, as the christians know him, is definitely "a part of" (not in writing per se) the constitution and the foundation of America as is christianity...it is our foundation and its ridiculous to think otherwise.
    Oh you will care... as the Nation becomes more of a Theocracy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    Oh you will care... as the Nation becomes more of a Theocracy.
    I don't see this supposed 'problem' with christians taking over. I'm no christian and I see the reverse happening. I see christianity, once a foundation of our nation, being removed. People don't like change.

    Christians in the modern west, IMO,have become VERY TOLERANT of other religions. Yes, according to them we may all be going to hell, but we're not being persecuted. They only wish for the same respect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    The Dec. of Ind. was a Deist input not a theists

    http://www.deism.com/paine_essay01.htm
    A deist in a christian world. That means he probably just didnt' take the bible literally. Does't mean a whole lot, otherwise.

    Plus, the argument is the mention of God in founding documents and our founding fathers belief in a god. He may have been a diest, but his diest beliefs were probably largely influenced by Christianity. Highly doubtful that he believed in more than one entity.

    Not that it should matter anyway...is a non-christian diest better than a christian? Will they make better decisiosn?

    I really don't see what the argument is here.

    If you want God separate from our founding fathers and documents, it should be any and all god(s), not just the christian God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    I don't see this supposed 'problem' with christians taking over. I'm no christian and I see the reverse happening. I see christianity, once a foundation of our nation, being removed. People don't like change.

    Christians in the modern west, IMO,have become VERY TOLERANT of other religions. Yes, according to them we may all be going to hell, but we're not being persecuted. They only wish for the same respect.
    Then you won`t mind a return to the Middleages then? Maybe the Spanish Inquisition would be to your liking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    A deist in a christian world. That means he probably just didnt' take the bible literally. Does't mean a whole lot, otherwise.

    Plus, the argument is the mention of God in founding documents and our founding fathers belief in a god. He may have been a diest, but his diest beliefs were probably largely influenced by Christianity. Highly doubtful that he believed in more than one entity.

    Not that it should matter anyway...is a non-christian diest better than a christian? Will they make better decisiosn?

    I really don't see what the argument is here.

    If you want God separate from our founding fathers and documents, it should be any and all god(s), not just the christian God.
    God brings moral values to humanity. Theology brings Dogmatic rules and regulations and eventualy PERSECUTION!
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    "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right." 1 Peter 2:13

    "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."
    Romans 13:1

    Follow these and there wouldn`t be an "American Revolution"
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    A deist in a christian world. That means he probably just didnt' take the bible literally. Does't mean a whole lot, otherwise.

    Plus, the argument is the mention of God in founding documents and our founding fathers belief in a god. He may have been a diest, but his diest beliefs were probably largely influenced by Christianity. Highly doubtful that he believed in more than one entity.

    Not that it should matter anyway...is a non-christian diest better than a christian? Will they make better decisiosn?

    I really don't see what the argument is here.

    If you want God separate from our founding fathers and documents, it should be any and all god(s), not just the christian God.
    The founding fathers were students of the "European Enlightenment" and as such saw the persecution of the Puritans and the Quakers ect... by the church of England. Who b y the way broke away from the Roman church due to... you guessed it PERSECUTION!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    Then you won`t mind a return to the Middleages then? Maybe the Spanish Inquisition would be to your liking.
    You're making no sense. You cannot relate the Christian of today to the christian of hundreds of years ago.

    I'm "here" and "now". Defining a group based of of ancestral decisions is quite unfair.

    Trust me, i get irritated by the constant badgering, but I'd hardly say they persecute anybody--at least not as a whole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    God brings moral values to humanity. Theology brings Dogmatic rules and regulations and eventualy PERSECUTION!
    Man brought moral values to humanity. Man also brought theology to humanity. Its not a religion problem, or a god problem, its a people problem. Different religions will be different because of what people did/said/do/say, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    Follow these and there wouldn`t be an "American Revolution"
    I'm not trying to justify the bible.

    And, if you're trying to demonize it, that quote is very 'weak' compared to other verses from other religious text.

    i don't care to debate religious text, philosophy, etc.

    I'm in there "here" and "now" of the actiosn of certain groups. Actions speak louder than words, and definitely much louder than a religious text does for an entire group.
  

  
 

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