Let's blame the roids!

goa1175

New member
So this dude has two types of hepatitis, and some other liver disease. He goes to the hospital for another liver ailment and BAM! it's the steroids that destroyed his liver! Certainly not the completely unrelated liver ailments. Suprised I haven't seen this story on the 6 o'clock news. :frustrate
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Clin Alert, Sept 15, 2005 v43 i17 p2(1)
Anabolic steroid abuse: vanishing bile duct syndrome and inflammatory pseudotumor.

Full Text: COPYRIGHT 2005 Sage Publications, Inc.

No. 239

A 32-year-old male patient was admitted to the hospital for jaundice (aminotransferase levels 3 to 4 times the upper normal limit) with asthenia and malaise 2 weeks following discontinuation of anabolic steroid abuse (3-month history). Medical history included acute hepatitis B, acute hepatitis of unknown origin, and a positive HAV-Ab IgG. The patient had been treated for primary hypogonadism with testosterone undecanoate (40 mg x 4 times per day for 3 years). Laboratory findings included a total bilirubin level of 639 mmol/L to 688 mmol/L with a direct bilirubin level of 530 mmol/L, aspartate aminotransferase of 81 U/L, alanine aminotransferase of 182 U/L, [gamma]-glutamyltransferase of 148 U/L, alkaline phosphatase of 212 U/L, international normalized ratio of 0.96, activated partial thromboplastin time of 0.87, blood urea nitrogen of 5.67 mmol/L, and creatinine level of 80 mmol/L. Abdominal ultrasound and magnetic resonance imaging revealed abnormal hepatic pattern and right lobal hypoechoic subcapsular lesion (5 x 5 cm) similar to a carcinoma with undilated bile ducts. Liver biopsy showed dilated portal tracts with edema and inflammation due to severe cholestasis and vanishing interlobular ducts in greater than 50% of portal tracts. The patient was treated with prednisone (1 mg/kg) and urso deoxy cholic acid (900 mg/d) leading to improvement of symptoms and laboratory test results. Clinical improvement resulted from surgical resection of the liver mass, which revealed inflammatory pseudotumor.

The authors concluded that this patient experienced anabolic steroid-induced vanishing bile duct syndrome. Severe destruction of at least half of interlobular ducts is a characteristic of vanishing bile duct syndrome. The pathogenesis of vanishing bile duct syndrome is unknown; however, the role of immune-mediated damage and generation of cytotoxic T cells and/or antibody-producing B cells and possible genetic component has been proposed.

Anabolic Steroids [Synthetic derivatives of testosterone]

Capra F et al (F Capra, Medicina Interna A Policlinico GB Rossi, Univ di Verona, Piazzale LA Scuro 10, 37134 Verona, Italy) Vanishing bile duct syndrome and inflammatory pseudotumor associated with a case of anabolic steroid abuse. Dig Dis Sci 50:1535-1537 (Aug) 2005
 
The media will have a field day with this... They will add in their own 2cents and furthermore have a field day with saying how bad roids are... Just a diaper full of ****.:mad:
 
goa1175 said:
The pathogenesis of vanishing bile duct syndrome is unknown; however, the role of immune-mediated damage and generation of cytotoxic T cells and/or antibody-producing B cells and possible genetic component has been proposed.

I will have to read the entire article at a later time, but this conclusion is ridiculous. The pathogenesis is immune-mediated so the culprit is not ACUTE HEPATATIS but testosterone? Testosterone deprivation has been shown to cause an increase in immune response (including b-cell proliferation) suggesting that testosterone impedes immune system function.
might warrant a letter to the editor here....
cc
 
No way someone who had the intelligence to make it all the way through med school would then lack the common sense to realize the juandice was from the hepatitis not the testosterone undeconate, wich doesnt even raise liver enzyme counts significantly since it lacks the c-17AA. This is a case of purposeful misrepresentation of the facts.
 
Most of you guys don't remeber the steroid scandles in the late 80's. SI did about an article a month of the evils of gear. A couple football players from around the country died and they all blamed it on steroids. I still recall the picture of a player from Cali laying in his coffin, 17 years old died from heart failure from gear. Or that how the docs reported it on his death certificate.
 
Im still unclear who the big players in the anti AAS conspiracies are and why. I mean I've speculated, and I'm sure pro sports organizations and the WADA have a hand in it, but the inner workings and agenda's of collaberating 3rd parties, such as medical proffesionals paid to say what they want them to.... the connections are still a bit baffling to me. Obviously it revolves around money, but who's making the money? and whats in it for all the supporting organizations/parties? There is way to many outlandish claims being made with way to little science to back it up for way too long for it to be just a misinterpretation of data.
 
I'm no alarmist. But I do happen to believe that anyone who thinks that the FDA, AMA, big pharma, sports organizations, tobacco industry, and politicians are devoid of conspiracies must be living in a bubble. I wish it wernt true, but......
 
At least the goverment can't make steroids any more illegal. Or can they.

Mr. President- "I want wire taps on anyone over 200 pounds and under 15% bodyfat."
Government Cronie- (removes nose from President's ass) "I'm on it sir."
 
You realize that the Pharmaceutical Lobby is the biggest lobby out there. In 2004, they spent $160 million lobbying to Congress and the media.

The war on steroids is their way to scare people from self medication. However I think we all know that.
 
natedogg said:
Mr. President- "I want wire taps on anyone over 200 pounds and under 15% bodyfat."
Government Cronie- (removes nose from President's ass) "I'm on it sir."
Mr. President - "And some gadgity-hickey that ya have ta give a piss sample before ya start yer car!"
 
At least the goverment can't make steroids any more illegal. Or can they.

Mr. President- "I want wire taps on anyone over 200 pounds and under 15% bodyfat."
Government Cronie- (removes nose from President's ass) "I'm on it sir."

Funny, but that scenario isnt too far off.
 
That "study" just made me dumber for reading it. Wow. And you all wonder why I get skeptical about "science"...lol. Science may be a pure pursuit, but politics always manages to find a way in.. When that happens the entire system is corrupted and there are no reliable standards from which to base one's perspective on.

We, of the AM community base our perspecitve not only on science, but on first hand experiences. The trick is finding a balance between the two.
 
LCSULLA said:
Most of you guys don't remeber the steroid scandles in the late 80's. SI did about an article a month of the evils of gear. A couple football players from around the country died and they all blamed it on steroids. I still recall the picture of a player from Cali laying in his coffin, 17 years old died from heart failure from gear. Or that how the docs reported it on his death certificate.

Kinda strange, especially since when people like us ask where's the plague of death steroids were supposed to cause, we get told there are no tell tale signs that can definitively link a death to steroids. It's convenient for the hysterical among us. They're so dangerous we can't study them to find out how dangerous they really are, but trust us, they're dangerous...

Anyone else ever wonder about this issue: use of steroids judisciously may help increase life span and quality of life. I'm not talking add mountains of muscle doses. Just keeping normal hormone levels and staying active could significantly affect the length and quality of life people have. But then, most of the drugs sold these days are to keep old people, who have been wasting away and eating **** while sitting on the couch their whole lives, alive, in slightly less pain and to stop all the bloating from all the **** they eat. It's always a wonder to me, with steroids specifically, why a drug that could be so helpful and beneficial to a lot of people is so demonized. But then the profits that could be lost if kicking the can wasn't such unpleasant and drawn out process would be massive.
 
Maybe their afraid that if all older people were on low dose test then they wouldnt experience alot of the other aging symptoms to as high a degree with increased vitality and immune response..... theyd be "too healthy" and wouldnt need the plethora of other drugs they want the elderly to have to keep buying for the last 20-30 yrs of their lives.
 
Maybe their afraid that if all older people were on low dose test then they wouldnt experience alot of the other aging symptoms to as high a degree with increased vitality and immune response..... theyd be "too healthy" and wouldnt need the plethora of other drugs they want the elderly to have to keep buying for the last 20-30 yrs of their lives.

bingo. The medical industry doesnt focus on cures - the focus on treatments. Lifelong treatments that you have to pay out the ass for.
 
BigVrunga said:
bingo. The medical industry doesnt focus on cures - the focus on treatments. Lifelong treatments that you have to pay out the ass for.

bah! this is just silliness. We work for cures, at the end of the day there is always a patient.
cc
 
Im sure you do. Which is why most docs jump to prescribe medication before examining a patient's diet, lifestyle, etc. Im sure some are better than others - but Ill put money on there being a lot more people on prescription meds than there really needs to be.

Of course there is always a case for treating symptoms - but tell me why is it there's a prescription drug ad every 5 minutes on television and every 10 pages in a major magazine. The pharmacetical industry has done some amazing things for human health, no doubt. But in the end they're companies out to make money - and the people responsible for making money for their companies would rather see a nation of hypochondriacs popping expensive pills for every percieved ailment under the sun that actually finding the root of their health concerns.

BV
 
You're original statement related to the 'medical community' if you meant pharmaceutical community (which I believe you do) I must abstain from commenting as I do not work for, albeit occasionally with, a pharmaceutical company.
However, the medical community is very much interested and determined to find cures for our pateints. The majority of all researchers work everyday towards this end and the influence of the pharmaceutical companies (besides offering free compounds to test) in this field is minute. Also, it is important to keep in mind that palliative care is a necessary branch of medicine.
cc

BigVrunga said:
Im sure you do. Which is why most docs jump to prescribe medication before examining a patient's diet, lifestyle, etc. Im sure some are better than others - but Ill put money on there being a lot more people on prescription meds than there really needs to be.

Of course there is always a case for treating symptoms - but tell me why is it there's a prescription drug ad every 5 minutes on television and every 10 pages in a major magazine. The pharmacetical industry has done some amazing things for human health, no doubt. But in the end they're companies out to make money - and the people responsible for making money for their companies would rather see a nation of hypochondriacs popping expensive pills for every percieved ailment under the sun that actually finding the root of their health concerns.

BV
 
canadian champ said:
bah! this is just silliness. We work for cures, at the end of the day there is always a patient.
cc

I wouldn't say I doubt the intentions of anyone in the industry, no more or less than I doubt anyone else's. It seems to me though that the current system favors treatments over cures. The government is basically a drug dealer and you get money in that position through repeat business, not one time treatments that solve a problem.
 
Well it's no secret that the FDA and pharm industry are buddy buddy, there was even a whistle blower IN the FDA not long ago. The FDA controls what treatments are approved in the US for each condition, which limits the approaches the medical community can realistically persue, or even be made aware of. And expensive treatments make more money than then cures or inexpensive (natural or otherwise) treatments. Pharma has been accused for example of misrepresenting or hiding data from the early Vioxx research so they could get a few hundred mil out of it before it would get pulled (at the expense of unwitting patients lives) to make the money they put into making and researching it worth their while. .)
 
However, the medical community is very much interested and determined to find cures for our pateints. The majority of all researchers work everyday towards this end and the influence of the pharmaceutical companies (besides offering free compounds to test) in this field is minute. Also, it is important to keep in mind that palliative care is a necessary branch of medicine.

Apologies if I offended you there CC, I was in fact referring to the Pharmeceutical Cartels. And more towards their administrative branches then the guys doing the R&D. However, I have had my run ins with docs who would just rather prescribe a pill then get to the root of a problem. Im sure this is a minority, but still it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

BV
 
I believe most people who go into medicine are wanting to help people. I agree with statements made about Big Pharma and there are some undeniably scarey trends in that industry that make it untrustworthy. Now that all pharm companies are publicly traded they are first and foremost responsible for making a profit each quarter. The fact they now have more money than god, allows them a level of influence in the govt that is unhealthy IMO.

Whoever produced this study was either pushing an agenda or they were so woefully incompetent that they couldn't read the writing on the wall: THIS GUY HAD 2 KINDS OF HEP and some unknown, presumably viral malady. I have trouble believing the latter because this sort of tripe is not supposed to be published if it was indeed reviewed by peers.
 
I'm with the guys in red here. Whenever someone has the ability to make money, why wouldn't they? Whenever any group wields a great amount of power, it has ***NEVER*** happened in the whole history of mankind that they didn't abuse it. Thence, the old saying that power corrupts and that absolute power corrupts absolutely, meaning that the more power you have, the more you tend to be corrupt. Government agencies are run by people. People can be bought. These are all facts. Someone might not like that I put them all in the same paragraph, but they remain facts all the same. It might not happen ALL the time, but there's enough interest for collusion between all the more powerful parties in this world to make such things a certainty.
 
I thought I had read somewhere that they actually prescribe test to patients with hep and other muscle wasting diseases to help them stop losing weight. I don't think test is contraindicated for those with hep.
 
Indigo6 said:
I thought I had read somewhere that they actually prescribe test to patients with hep and other muscle wasting diseases to help them stop losing weight. I don't think test is contraindicated for those with hep.

It's not. Some people with diseases known to cause wasting have be prescribed steroids to help them maintain muscle mass. It can help save or prolong their lives, dramatically at times too. But steroids are also the devil's seed, remember? The prescription of any drug big on the black market, especially ones like steroids that get so much press, can lead to the FDA and the DEA having 'questions' for the doctor. That's of course if the doctor hasn't bought the whole steroids are evil line and is still willing to prescribe them.
 
natedogg said:
At least the goverment can't make steroids any more illegal. Or can they.

Mr. President- "I want wire taps on anyone over 200 pounds and under 15% bodyfat."
Government Cronie- (removes nose from President's ass) "I'm on it sir."


I wouldn't be suprised if this happened in the future... LOL. If you look in somewhat decent shape, it is attributed to steroids. Hell, I have been on juice for 2 years going on 3, and I get comments everyday like "Stay off the juice," or "The only I am not as big as him is because choose not to use juice." Recently i've heard someone call me a "juice monkey" but it didn't bother me none. People underestimate the importance of proper diet and training. It's amazing how some people are totally clueless.
 
This is VERY stupid but...

Nullifidian said:
What .... the .... ****....

You cant tell me your actually suprised. It's 2006, EVERYTHING, liver disease, car accidents, the war in Iraq, are Roids fault
 
I heard that Saddam was using the juice when he started building WMDs. Thats why the war is so serious.
 
Maybe Saddams WMD's ARE roids! He'll kill us all with lethal doses of test! The survivors will have no choice but to get "roid rage" and rip eachother to pieces like wild beasts! Then Satan will imerge from vial of Deca and finish off the rest of the world! I knew it!:jaw:
 
UnicronSpawn said:
Maybe Saddams WMD's ARE roids! He'll kill us all with lethal doses of test! The survivors will have no choice but to get "roid rage" and rip eachother to pieces like wild beasts! Then Satan will imerge from vial of Deca and finish off the rest of the world! I knew it!:jaw:
Sorry dude, many of us have already seen Satan - he looks like a bottle of M1T :smite:
 
I have to admit. I used to believe the crap propaganda like this that was all over the place. Though I've never tried gear, I feel like the HBO special and this site have really opened my eyes about it.

It's almost analagous to the whole anti-marijuana brigade...
 
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