Bonds' use revealed
- 03-07-2006, 02:25 PM
Bonds' use revealed
An upcoming book is supposed to reveal the usage of various anabolics employed by Barry Bonds beginning in 1998
- 03-07-2006, 02:38 PM
- 03-07-2006, 02:51 PM
I am soooo happy.
If Bonds was not such an arrogant ass with everyone I could feel some sympathy for him. However, since his attitude has always been "F You!" and constantly lying about his steriods use, I hope they wipe all his stats away and relegate him to the dustbin on bsaeball history. Ban him for life!!!!
03-07-2006, 03:05 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought. Probably not the most reliable article in the end.Originally Posted by Jeff
03-07-2006, 03:07 PM
Best part of the whole thread ..."Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone;..."
03-07-2006, 05:34 PM
"I was fatigued, just needed recovery you know, and this guy says, 'Try this cream, try this cream,'" he said. "And Greg came to the ballpark and said, you know, 'This will help you recover.' And he rubbed some cream on my arm ... gave me some flaxseed oil, man. It's like, 'Whatever, dude.' "
I wonder if the sale of flax went up after all of his comments. It's pretty clear to me he knew what he was doing. What multi-million dollar athlete would not want to know what is going on or into his or her body? I mean really how do you just let someone do whatever to your body and say "whatever dude." I'm really tired of his attitude.
03-07-2006, 06:53 PM
03-07-2006, 07:11 PM
03-07-2006, 07:11 PM
03-07-2006, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by GRosk1234
...maybe because it was his trainer?...who cares its baseball...the sport sucks nuts anyways...i don't feel his records should be banned since there was no steroid policy before this, was there?...so u could do anything within ur power, within the rules to get an adventage and he did
03-07-2006, 11:29 PM
I seriously don't think that any anabolics caused Barry to win a batting title.
Sure, they might add 5 feet to a hit, turning some into HR's. But, they won't cause you to turn your hips faster to get around on the inside fastball. Or to transfer your weight properly.
Dude is a hitter - anabolics or not.
03-07-2006, 11:46 PM
It probably did help him. I guarantee you he has a quicker bat now. A quicker bat means more time to wait on a pitch and thusly a better/longer chance to judge pitches.
Also take into account that he surely recovered much faster and was less fatigued due to his usage. A long season became more bareable because of his supplements.
Sure, he's a great great hitter, but you give an already great hitter an extra advantage and look what it can do. All of the sudden he has even more time to wait on pitches. Instead of hitting a ton of fly ball outs, those are homers now....
Regardless, it'd be nice if the playing field was equal, but that will never happen. Some guys will always have access to better equipment, better trainer, etc... but it'd be nice to even the playing field as much as possible.
Also notice the literally dramatic dropoff in HR numbers since the ban. I'd love to say it was because of so many other things... and I defended MLB players tremendously throughout the season last year, but the numbers were shockingly down... I'd love to know how many players really were using. I'd suspect that half were... truly....
03-07-2006, 11:56 PM
You train harder, longer and recover faster. The more you train the better you get..simple.Originally Posted by amac
03-07-2006, 11:57 PM
Muscle mass don't make you a hitter, that's for sure. Still, it'll make players with already amazing skills that much better.
Canseco once stated it makes good players great and great players out of this world... I'd have to agree.
Still... it can't make your eye/hand coordination any better...
03-08-2006, 12:05 AM
i want to blow the media up. it's so ridiculous how they've blasted steroids and the bodybuilding lifestyle. i'd love to see a few good articles come out, explaining the OTHER side. i know there was a documentary done, but it's not widely available and shown to the public. you don't see it in print, etc.
03-08-2006, 12:20 AM
Has anyone actually read this book? From what it sounds like, most of the "cited" evidence is from a copy of the leaked grand jury testimony that was obtained by one the the Chronicle reporters. Until this sealed grand jury testimony becomes public, we really dont know what is accurate and what isnt because none of the citations are viewable to the public. I would really like to read this book but will definitely check it out from my local library because I dont think it will be worth paying the authors to read something that may or may not be credible.
Do I think that Bonds used steroids? Yes he absolutely took steroids. Should we take his records away? An emphatic no because of a little reported fact (even though facts dealing with major leaguers who used and didnt use are more or less hearsay but indulge me) that a large number of pitchers with arm injuries and older pitchers were using these steroids to recover from injuries and the like so this may have leveled the playing field to an extent. I think that we must call this the steroid era just like the early 1910's were the dead ball era and lament the fact that baseball did not take more appropriate action and let our stars accomplishments dim a little bit due to association and rumors of performance enhancing substances. So everyone hold your breath and hope that we can come up with a good test because gene doping is coming and one day 73 homeruns may seem average for a defensive 2nd baseman.
03-08-2006, 12:47 AM
IMO, they shouldnt take his statistics away.
FACT: a lot of other players (many of whom were allready talented) supplemented with AAS and GH, who DIDN'T break long standing records or in some cases didnt even put up particularly remarkable numbers. We no AAS can help to train a bit harder and recover a bit faster, but their boundaries are still quite finite. Even a person with slightly above average genetics and who is well studied in training and nutrition can hit a point where their gains are coming a little slow during a cycle. They work well but the media makes it sound like they are some sort of comic book super performance enhancers that induce growth beyond measure. You can still overtrain on AAS, you can still under recuperate, or underestimate your caloric and macro nutrient needs. Bonds excelled beyond the other AAS users in MLB because he had natural gifts and heart as well as chemical assistance.
The only way any sport will have a TRUE level playing field is to genetically clone a whole league of the same player, same genes, same training equipment, same instructional quality, same nutritional and supplement regimen and (possibly) the same drugs. Who would REALLY want to watch that anyway? People want to see athletes that slightly supercede the abilities of an opponent, they dont want clones battling in a 0-0 game in extra innings. They think they want a level playing field, but they dont know what a REAL level playing field is. (Just IMO).
03-08-2006, 06:19 AM
Steroids are really "training" enhancers not "performance" enhancers. You don't take steroids before the big game to give you an edge. You take steroids to enhance your training goals. Bond was the best player of his generation. Even if he retired in 1998 his career would still be hall of fame. My opinion is that the steroids extended his career another five years. He was able to train like a 25 year old. The combination of a highly trained body and a keen mind with 15 years experience was no match for what ever pitching he has faced. The article does not mention that Bond switched bats in 1998 from ash to a harder type of wood ( oak, pine? ).The greater density of the bat added distance to the batted balls. Most players followed suit. I not sure why MLB plays down this change. It would seem like a good counter to the juice stories. Maybe they think it lends less credibility to the statistics.Originally Posted by amac
...I heard that Tiger Woods benches 300lbs!
03-08-2006, 09:27 PM
Why do these baseball writers have such a hard on for who used steroids ? Baseball didn't have steroids on the banned substance list so even if Barry used (which I believe he did) then HE DID NOT CHEAT, yet the writers are calling him a cheater It just makes no sense for some of the crap these moronic writers say, I can't keep track of how many have said they won't vote Bonds into the Hall because he used juice. #1 They don't have any tests that reveal him testing positive, #2 Juice was not against MLB rules during the times those writer allege Bonds used juice.
03-08-2006, 09:35 PM
could care less what any pros pit in there bodies
juice em all up. i wanna see longer, faster and more of it! mortals bore me!
03-08-2006, 09:39 PM
You train harder to perform better. Steriods can make a ****ty athlete better, but steroids can not give you heart or love for the game to train your ass off.Originally Posted by anabolicrhino
03-08-2006, 09:58 PM
Steroids cannot enhance skill, fact is the dude can hit like no one else. There are pros in every sport that juice. I'd rather see the government go after tobacco. Why is it legal to sell carcinogens to the public? F****** up government priorities.
03-08-2006, 10:05 PM
My statement is this: how many times on here have we said that steroids aren't a magic bullet? Pretty darn often.
Barry didn't take whatever (I'll believe it when someone shows a picture of him getting something injected or taking Winstrol or whatever) and become this home run monster.
He worked his ass off. He was in the batting cage every day. He studied pitchers. Etc, etc, etc.
Steroids didn't turn this guy into the best hitter ever.
03-08-2006, 10:28 PM
Steroids were on the banned list, andro and all the ph's were not. The testing process was such joke that everyone never got tested and therefore it wasn't such a big deal.Originally Posted by Iron Warrior
03-08-2006, 10:34 PM
I don't really care. Show me proof. As long as he can stay healthy and help my boys get to the playoffs this year, I'll be happy as can be.
03-09-2006, 01:32 PM
Bingo.Originally Posted by jmh80
How many people take steroids? A lot of people.
How many can hit the ball like Bonds?
03-09-2006, 02:03 PM
03-10-2006, 05:45 PM
I read that Bonds injects the HGH of a 4' 10" circus performer to shrink the actual size of his strike zone, I checked and the numbers over the last 5 years back it up...his 1,000 or so bases on balls could only have been acomplished through voodoo!!!Originally Posted by martymar9
03-10-2006, 06:31 PM
I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second. I was a college athlete. I never did steroids then, have subsequently tried a ton.Canseco once stated it makes good players great and great players out of this world... I'd have to agree.
Still... it can't make your eye/hand coordination any better...
In every single instance that I saw or knew of someone who used steroids, they got faster, more aggressive, recovered faster...in a word, better.
To argue that they don't make you better is to invalidate their need for use in the first place.
In track, one second is the difference between first and last place.
I don't like the dishonesty that arises when steroid users pretend it doesn't improve your performance.
Take some cheque drops and tell me you don't have better hand=eye coordination. And the boost to your confidence from test and others is most certainly in your favor when appraoching a 100 mph fastball.
03-10-2006, 08:50 PM
Anyone who says roids can't help a baseball player has NEVER played baseball. The stronger you are - the farther you hit it. I'm not saying that any power lifter can hit a ball farther than Bonds or even Carlos Guillen for that matter. But you take a guy who doesn't lift at all and let him hit - then he hits the weight room for 6 months - he comes back and hits the ball harder and longer and has more bat speed and bat control. And because he can get the bat around faster and control it better because he is stronger - it helps him make contact more often - and it goes farther. He becomes a better hitter than he was before he worked out. That is a FACT.
Now steriods do a number of things for a baseball player. They may even have more effect on a MLB player than any other major sport - even football. Hear me out.
162 game season - six months long - not counting spring training - one or two days off a week. You lift all winter long and are in top strength when you come to camp. Now you have to play every day - you can't lift your ass off because your pecks will be sore - your shoulders will be sore - your muscles are rendered weaker for 2 days after you hammer that body part. This effects your power and bat speed and bat control. So guys can't keep their winter strength during the season. Piazza used to shed 20-25 lbs during the season. As most of you know here - steroids make recovery after a lifting session seem like nothing - you can lift the next day!
So instead of coming into camp strong and by the August you are weak and your bat is slower than molasses - you start your 12 week cycle in June or July and half your season great! You can lift and actually gain strength as the season progresses. This is HUGE for a baseball player. Pitchers too - dead arm in August - GONE!
Siznoyton - what are chegue drops?
03-10-2006, 09:59 PM
Cheque Drops are a nice little steroid used to increase aggression and mental focus. It can be hepatoxic if abused. You can go from ----> on cheque drops.Originally Posted by Stupes
03-10-2006, 10:10 PM
If Barry used steroids then his numbers would have taken a serious dive, but the fact remains his last healthy season he had over a .600 OBP. He sees the ball so well and has such a compact swing that he acts so quickly when he actually gets a pitch in the strike zone.
03-10-2006, 10:10 PM
It was also once given to dogs and here is why :
..."cheque drops oppose the effects of estrogen and other hormones which cause ovulation and subsequent production of progesterone. Need to start the medication at least 30 days before proestrus to prevent the female from coming into heat. It is about 90% effective. Do not use in dogs which are to be bred in the future, as start of the next cycle may vary from 7-200 days from discontinuation of Cheque Drops. It has been used to lengthen short cycles which cause infertility and to treat false pregnancies. The false pregnancy may recur when the medication is discontinued. Because of this and the fact that most false pregnancies resolve on their own, no treatment is usually given. The most effective way to prevent these problems in dogs who are not showing in the breed ring and are not going to be used for breeding is by an ovariohysterectomy (spay)."
03-10-2006, 10:13 PM
The dude is an ignorant a$$hole with an ego the size of the stadium. He did juice so I dont know what you're talking about "IF he used..."Originally Posted by Rodja
03-10-2006, 10:28 PM
If Barry used steroids
Personally I don't give a rats **** if he did or not. There are two reasons why these guys have a hardone for him. He doesn't play their game and all the baseball sports writers are like 65-70+ white men that think they are experts on baseball. Look they didn't even vote in the last great Negro League player. The only one thats still alive!! And they guy had good numbers and even managed teams in the big leagues.
03-10-2006, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by LCSULLA
Bunch of nostalgic luddites IMO. They want to measure today's players by the same yardstick as Mantle. But they dont want to accept that even if there were no steroids in baseball, its still a different era now, and is just not comparable to the way things were in baseball and in all sports when they were growing up. Pitchers were good in the old days, but now the bar has been raised. You cant just be gifted and get drunk after every game if your a hitter, and not work out, and expect to hang anymore. We have highly developed protocols for training athletes to be their best, we know more about nutrition and more athletes adhere to it now. The equipment is better, its just a different time. The greats of the 40's and 50's were pioneer's and inspired the next generation, but times have changed.
It's time to accept performance enhancing drugs as just another component of any athletes complete and sound regimen. This would also allow them to communicate openly and explain in detail to young people why it isnt for them, and why it's only safe under certain conditions, one of wich being that the person has to be old enough, and has to follow a protocol that is as safe and effective as possible. Obviously that wont happen real soon, but mostly because of the wild exaggerations of the dangers of use planted in peoples heads by a)people with no knowledge, B) by former users who had adverse reactions mostly because they never researched, and just did it cuz someone said they had to in order to be competetive. and C) otherwise qualified individual's who had an agenda, or were working for someone with an agenda that involved opposition to AAS use.
03-11-2006, 06:56 AM
I really can't believe so many people on this board are actually giving any thought to a book full of conjecture that makes little to no sense at all if you know a little more than the average Joe about steroids.
Really, all of those supposed "cycles" and what not should raise the eyebrows of people that know absolutely nothing about those drugs, but thats about it.
It's sort of like me going over to babelfish and getting a sentence or two translated into spanish and then posting it up on this board. To those of you that don't speak spanish I'm gonna look like Juan Valdez, burro and all.
But to someone that speaks the language fluently my jiberish isn't going to make the best of sense. And they will know I'm full of crap if I try to claim I habla some serious espanol.
Same with that book. A whole lot of nonsensical BS. Shouldn't even be treated with the same respect as the New York Post.
03-11-2006, 08:26 AM
I can't beleive it took a nonsensical book to for the overwhelming majority of the media and population to beleive Bonds used steroids! Anyone with a brain could see that a professional athelete who puts on 30 lbs. of muscle after the age of 35, and then hits HR at twice the pace he hit them in his prime, is on the juice! The f-ing book is useless. McWire used them - Sosa used them - Griffey didn't use them. Why do so many people refuse to see the truth?
03-11-2006, 10:15 PM
Most of the stories that are reported in the world of sports are more important to the writers and reporting media, than anyone else. I guess they need to make a living, so I understand, but it is rare to hear a sportsfan say "... Gee, I really used to like that Barry Bonds,...he's so nice and lately he's a really nice guy who hits homeruns every 7.2 at bats, but...if he's doin that steroid stuff,... he should be eaten by cancerous rats!!!, does he think he's better than everyone else? jock *******!Originally Posted by Stupes
03-12-2006, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by anabolicrhino
Actually some fans ARE saying stuff not far from that about him and every high profile AAS using player. I was flippin channels the other day and on the sports segment of one of the network news shows they had clips of Bonds and in the backround they were playing quotes from various baseball fans that must have been recorded from a telephone call. I found their perspectives to be nieve and nonsensical personally, but it shows that at least a few fans are taking it personally. Their taking it harder than the guys in charge of deciding how the record books will handle his stats. The fans that called in were ruthlessly harsh and unreasonable IMO in the way they thought he should be dealt with. They want every statistic he ever put up in his career wiped from the record, they want him black balled from possible hall of fame status. Considering that technically it's all based on hearsay and suspicion (no matter how believable it is), and that alot of other players (not just the ones putting up stellar #'s) were using too, and the fact that he was hall of fame material before he ever got huge and broke the record......theese particular fan's assesment's seem outrageous and asinine to me.
Just leagalize it allready! For crying out loud, stop the madness and legalize it damn it!
Sorry, had to get that off my chest
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