New Orleans in Anarchy
- 09-02-2005, 02:46 AM
New Orleans in Anarchy
NEW ORLEANS - New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday as corpses lay abandoned in street medians, fights and fires broke out, cops turned in their badges and the governor declared war on looters who have made the city a menacing landscape of disorder and fear.
"They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said of 300 National Guard troops who landed in New Orleans fresh from duty in Iraq. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will."
Four days after Hurricane Katrina roared in with a devastating blow that inflicted potentially thousands of deaths, the fear, anger and violence mounted Thursday.
"I'm not sure I'm going to get out of here alive," said Canadian tourist Larry Mitzel, who handed a reporter his business card in case he goes missing. "I'm scared of riots. I'm scared of the locals. We might get caught in the crossfire."
The chaos deepened despite the promise of 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting, plans for a $10 billion recovery bill in Congress and a government relief effort President Bush called the biggest in U.S. history.
New Orleans' top emergency management official called that effort a "national disgrace" and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly lawless city.
About 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans convention center grew ever more hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead. Police Chief Eddie Compass said there was such a crush around a squad of 88 officers that they retreated when they went in to check out reports of assaults.
"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."
Col. Henry Whitehorn, chief of the Louisiana State Police, said he heard of numerous instances of New Orleans police officers — many of whom from flooded areas — turning in their badges.
"They indicated that they had lost everything and didn't feel that it was worth them going back to take fire from looters and losing their lives," Whitehorn said.
A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.
In hopes of defusing the situation at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they could find. But the bedlam made that difficult.
"This is a desperate SOS," Nagin said in a statement. "Right now we are out of resources at the convention center and don't anticipate enough buses."
At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center, a makeshift staging area for those rescued from rooftops, attics and highways. The sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement.
An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.
"I don't treat my dog like that," 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair.
"You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people," he added. "You can go overseas with the military, but you can't get them down here."
The street outside the center, above the floodwaters, smelled of urine and feces, and was choked with dirty diapers, old bottles and garbage.
"They've been teasing us with buses for four days," Edwards said. "They're telling us they're going to come get us one day, and then they don't show up."
Every so often, an armored state police vehicle cruised in front of the convention center with four or five officers in riot gear with automatic weapons. But there was no sign of help from the National Guard.
At one point the crowd began to chant "We want help! We want help!" Later, a woman, screaming, went on the front steps of the convention center and led the crowd in reciting the 23rd Psalm, "The Lord is my shepherd ..."
"We are out here like pure animals," the Issac Clark said.
"We've got people dying out here — two babies have died, a woman died, a man died," said Helen Cheek. "We haven't had no food, we haven't had no water, we haven't had nothing. They just brought us here and dropped us."
Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "'Go to hell — it's every man for himself.'"
"This is just insanity," she said. "We have no food, no water ... all these trucks and buses go by and they do nothing but wave."
FEMA director Michael Brown said the agency just learned about the situation at the convention center Thursday and quickly scrambled to provide food, water and medical care and remove the corpses.
Speaking on CNN's "Larry King Live," Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said the evacuation of New Orleans should be completed by the end of the weekend.
At the hot and stinking Superdome, where 30,000 were being evacuated by bus to the Houston Astrodome, fistfights and fires erupted amid a seething sea of tense, suffering people who waited in a lines that stretched a half-mile to board yellow school buses.
After a traffic jam kept buses from arriving for nearly four hours, a near-riot broke out in the scramble to get on the buses that finally did show up, with a group of refugees breaking through a line of heavily armed National Guardsmen.
One military policeman was shot in the leg as he and a man scuffled for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was arrested.
Some of those among the mostly poor crowd had been in the dome for four days without air conditioning, working toilets or a place to bathe. An ambulance service airlifting the sick and injured out of the Superdome suspended flights as too dangerous after it was reported that a bullet was fired at a military helicopter.
"If they're just taking us anywhere, just anywhere, I say praise God," said refugee John Phillip. "Nothing could be worse than what we've been through."
By Thursday evening, 11 hours after the military began evacuating the Superdome, the arena held 10,000 more people than it did at dawn. National Guard Capt. John Pollard said evacuees from around the city poured into the Superdome and swelled the crowd to about 30,000 because they believed the arena was the best place to get a ride out of town.
As he watched a line snaking for blocks through ankle-deep waters, New Orleans' emergency operations chief Terry Ebbert blamed the inadequate response on the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
"This is not a FEMA operation. I haven't seen a single FEMA guy," he said. He added: "We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans."
FEMA officials said some operations had to be suspended in areas where gunfire has broken out, but are working overtime to feed people and restore order.
A day after Nagin took 1,500 police officers off search-and-rescue duty to try to restore order in the streets, there were continued reports of looting, shootings, gunfire and carjackings — and not all the crimes were driven by greed.
When some hospitals try to airlift patients, Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben-Iesan said, "there are people just taking potshots at police and at helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
Outside a looted Rite-Aid drugstore, some people were anxious to show they needed what they were taking. A gray-haired man who would not give his name pulled up his T-shirt to show a surgery scar and explained that he needs pads for incontinence.
"I'm a Christian. I feel bad going in there," he said.
Earl Baker carried toothpaste, toothbrushes and deodorant. "Look, I'm only getting necessities," he said. "All of this is personal hygiene. I ain't getting nothing to get drunk or high with."
Several thousand storm victims had arrived in Houston by Thursday night, and they quickly got hot meals, showers and some much-needed rest.
Audree Lee, 37, was thrilled after getting a shower and hearing her teenage daughter's voice on the telephone for the first time since the storm. Lee had relatives take her daughter to Alabama so she would be safe.
"I just cried. She cried. We cried together," Lee said. "She asked me about her dog. They wouldn't let me take her dog with me. ... I know the dog is gone now."
While floodwaters in the city appeared to stabilize, efforts continued to plug three breaches that had opened up in the levee system that protects this below-sea-level city.
Helicopters dropped sandbags into the breach and pilings were being pounded into the mouth of the canal Thursday to close its connection to Lake Pontchartrain, state Transportation Secretary Johnny Bradberry said. The next step called for using about 250 concrete road barriers to seal the gap.
In Washington, the White House said Bush will tour the devastated Gulf Coast region on Friday and has asked his father, former President George H.W. Bush, and former President Clinton to lead a private fund-raising campaign for victims.
The president urged a crackdown on the lawlessness.
"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this — whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."
Donald Dudley, a 55-year-old New Orleans seafood merchant, complained that when he and other hungry refugees broke into the kitchen of the convention center and tried to prepare food, the National Guard chased them away.
"They pulled guns and told us we had to leave that kitchen or they would blow our damn brains out," he said. "We don't want their help. Give us some vehicles and we'll get ourselves out of here!"
my favorite part is:
"'You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people,' he added. 'You can go overseas with the military, but you can't get them down here.'"
These are our own people dying down south, I can't believe that they have to live like this.
I know I will be sending money to the red cross. I can't afford a lot, but I will send what I can. I urge others to send anything also. When I need help there are always people to help me out, and I am grateful.
If anyone would like to donate to the american red cross, please visit redcross.org for more information.
- 09-02-2005, 03:05 AM
"'You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people,' he added. 'You can go overseas with the military, but you can't get them down here.'"
I am from New Orleans, and I must say that it is a disgrace down there. People are trying to help us, but many there don't want to be helped. I know many there who say that the media portrayal of anarchy isn't even a fraction of what it actually is down there. How do you expect aid to be focused on food, shelter, and evacuation, when people are running rampant, holding hostages, looting malls and setting them on fire, tearing houses apart for their contents. These aren't just people looting out of necessity -- they're taking electronics, jewelry, and every damned thing you can think of.
Everyone is trying to do everything that they can for this situation; that is the bottom line. The only people keeping this from being a successful rescue mission are the looters, rapists, murderers, and thieves that are preying on the victims.
- 09-02-2005, 05:23 AM
Well said BigDick, I have a friend who stayed behind to help (she is a pediatric resident) until she got robed and almost raped. She said "**** them, I hope they all die" referring to the looters and ****bags that prevent proper action from being taken. The victims of the tsunami were in far direr straits, and did not behave like this. Entitled ****ing disgrace.
09-02-2005, 07:20 AM
It's the "every-man-for-himself" attitude that poisons most of those people.
No sense of community or giving of one's self at all. How truely sad.
09-02-2005, 08:51 AM
Marshall law needs to be instated in the disaster region. Then they need to shoot looters on sight.
09-02-2005, 08:54 AM
It hard not to sympathise with people who have to steal food and supplies because they are hungry.
Looters walking around with 5 pairs of jeans and TVs however ought to be shot on sight.
09-02-2005, 10:53 AM
I agree with Marcus, you cant blame them for stealing food items and possibly some essentials. T.V's, VCR'S, electronics anything of that sort is rediculous.
09-02-2005, 11:10 AM
This sucks. It makes me wish a giant meteorite would just hit the earth to wipe out like 90% of the entire population... haha
I have freinds who have been called, and they are heading down this weekend. One of them said that they will probably be instructed to fire at looters..so thats a good thing.
I wish all luck, to the victims and to people trying to help.
09-02-2005, 11:44 AM
This is just ridiculous. Those people are making things worse for themselves. If they would quit acting like dumbasses, they'd get out of their a lot faster. Last night on the news I saw some jackass claiming that this was a race issue. He was trying to claim they didn't want to help them because the refugees were mostly black. That **** just pisses me off. I can't stand these mother ****ers that try to claim everything is a race issue. Why the hell didn't these people leave when they were told to? I knew that it was going to be bad and the city was going to flood. The kept telling everybody it was going to happen.
So these people were too stupid to leave when they had the chance and now they're making it hard for the people trying to help them by acting like idiots. As for the people who keep bitching about the help the tsunami victims got, they deserved it. The tsunami was a lot bigger disaster than this. Not only was the devastation not even comparable, those people had no warning. Almost 100 million dollars has already been donated to the people in New Orleans, the National Guard has sent thousands of men and women there to help, dozens of charity and disaster relief organizations are down there helping out. I am just so sick of everyone bitching all the time that they're not getting enough.
It is a real tragedy. My heart goes out to those people. I have been asked to go to New Orleans and help out, and I'm going. But is some mother ****er tries to rob me he's gonna die.
09-02-2005, 12:03 PM
I firmly believe that many stayed behind to try to take advantage of the mostly deserted area, not expecting to get caught up in such dire straits. They figured that all of the good, honest, hard working folks have left town so they are going to stay behind and steal all their belongings.....bunch of scum bags.
09-02-2005, 12:15 PM
This looter has his priorities straight!
09-02-2005, 03:25 PM
It trully is a shame for people to act like this, As for looters they should be Sos, but the people "finding" water and food, they should be left alone. As for the people who did stay, some did not h ave places to go, and some felt that the danger was not that high, you can say that iis not a race issue, or not, but wonder this: when the Us bombed Afganistan, we were ther dropping food and supplies the next day to the same people we bombed. But in the New Orleans it takes 3 day to get 40,000 troops there, if the mayor of New Orleans and Charlie Gibson on right wing Good Morning America blasts FEMA as well as the President do you not think some **** was and is wrong?
09-02-2005, 03:41 PM
Yes we at IBE are from New Orleans, it is a warzone down there. People are walking around with machetes and guns stealing water and food from other people. 8 people were shot and killed last night for looting. This is something we never expected after the hurricane. It is bad real bad.
09-02-2005, 07:42 PM
I could not agree more, my friend. I cannot believe that some people are trying to play the ****ing race card in this situation. I would not be suprised at all if someone said that the God damn hurricane itself was racist and that is why it ripped through and devastated portions of the poverty level black community. Either that, or the hurricane was created and sent by the whites in order to wipe out part of the black population. I am not joking, it is almost to that level of stupidity.Originally Posted by bedabeast
This is all I have to say to the people who continue in this day and age to play the race card whenever things do not go their way, especially in a situation such as this, when all that can be done IS BEING DONE, as quickly as HUMANLY possible....This is the 21st century, slavery was abolished LONG ago....you were not even alive when your ancestors were slaves, so don't you think it's time that you drop that pathetic crutch and stop acting as if you deserve special treatment or some sort of hand out just because of your skin color and what your ancestors went through? Think about it like this....if your ancestors had not been brought over here, would you have the opportunities today that are freely afforded you in this land of the free? I think not. Now shut your ****ing mouths about race and do what you can in order to try and help ALL of your fellow BROTHERS, as their is strength in unity and numbers and where there is strength, there is an indomitable will to SURVIVE.
Realize that all that can be done is being done and that the president cannot put on a superman suit and just swoop down and save everybody just because he is the president. This situation is just so monumental and catastophic that they had/have to formulate a plan of action before just blindly walking into such a dark and purely chaotic situation. The situation had to be fully assesed in order to create the best rescue scenario possible. All that can be done within the limitations of being human is being done considering the entire scope of this catastrophy, but considering the magnatude of suffering that is going on, it will never be enough for some individuals. They will either simply flip out or just lay down and die, while others of a stronger resolve and nature, will LIVE ON and just try as best they can to DEAL with the situation as it is, as that is all you really can do in such a situation. This situation will simply bring out the best in some and the absolute worst in others. Talk about a true test of ones resolve....wheeew.
09-02-2005, 07:52 PM
Jesus Christ....a ****ing tub of Heineken and one in the back pocket....just to be sure. Thats right, go ahead and dehydrate yourself some more there, buddy......What a ****ing fool.Originally Posted by SubliminalX
09-02-2005, 08:39 PM
They need to shoot the looters, theives, and rapists in that region like the animals they are. ****, even animals dont act like that.
09-02-2005, 09:22 PM
****in' A right, man. To be perfectly honest, the more that I see skidmarks on the underwear of society like these people, the more I appreciate and love animals. We, as a society, need to stop and realize that the "Dark Ages" that we learn about in school should also include our own current times....we never have gotten out of the dark ages....we are getting WORSE and slowly, but surely creating our own demise by our very actions. In my opinion, the human race is ****ing doomed by our own very natures, as it is inherent in our natures to destroy ourselves. Consider the irony of that, if you will. We are the next dinosaurs and one day....who knows when, we as a race will also get the "pink slip" in order to make way for a new cycle of a HIGHER evolution. I personally think that this is just a precursor to MUCH worse catastrophies to come here in the United States and the world over in general.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
I don't mean to express such a "doomsday" attitude, and I am sorry if I am coming across in such a way, but that is just what I firmly believe. Too many ****ed up things are starting to happen....hell, you can almost just feel the uneasiness in the air. We are living in VERY turbulent times, my friends.
09-02-2005, 10:12 PM
I just don't know what to think. I live 60 miles away in what is now LA's largest city.
I don't think our lives will ever be the same. I'm now not sure how much longer I can live here.
09-02-2005, 10:18 PM
the looters and lawbreakers SHOULD be shot on sight, i have no doubt about that. but then there are the people who steal to live. where do you draw the line?
regardless of the looters, there are STILL people living in the streets, without food and water. why is it that we can't get them food/water/supplies to live?
are the babies and the NON-law breaking citizens who couldn't get out for whatever reason wrong?
09-02-2005, 11:38 PM
I hear you, don't worry about it bro (jmh80) we will get over this.
"That which does not kill us, only makes us stronger!"
09-02-2005, 11:49 PM
They're not wrong, no. And this is catastrophic. This is one of those rare times where even I support government intervention. But to me it's like living in a flood zone. I feel like **** and I don't mind my tax dollars going to help there, but anotherpart of me says get flood insurance and don't expect me to pay for it. This isn't the first devastating hurricane to hit that area. The results may be the most catastrophic. I hear people saying some people couldn't afford to get away. In that case, if it's true, someone needs to seriously look into whose responsibility it was to see that a workable evacuation plan for all the citizens was in place, including those people who couldn't evacuate themselves for whatever reason. Once that person is found, they need to be flayed in public.Originally Posted by cable626
As for the looters, I say shoot them if you see them but otherwise let them roam free and concentrate all possible man power of gathering and centralizing all remaining innocent victims so they can be helped and protected from those scum. What's an ******* going to do with a soaking wet Sony Wega anyway?
09-03-2005, 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by Apowerz6
This post is just plain stupid. The reason food was there the next was because that was a PLANNED attack. This hurican was not planned nor was it expected to be this big with total caos afterwards. It is a lot harder to get all this food put together in days. National guard are being deployed and food is going as fast as possible. These are not related incidents, do not try to make them that way. Bush does not favor people and their lives based on their political views.
09-03-2005, 01:10 AM
On one hand you see the human filth that are taking advantage of the suffering in New Orleans, and on the other you hear about a team of scientists that have unlocked the secrets to tissue regeneration in mammals. So I dont think the whole species has gone to **** - just somewhere down the line we're going to have to cut the dead weight.****in' A right, man. To be perfectly honest, the more that I see skidmarks on the underwear of society like these people, the more I appreciate and love animals. We, as a society, need to stop and realize that the "Dark Ages" that we learn about in school should also include our own current times....we never have gotten out of the dark ages....we are getting WORSE and slowly, but surely creating our own demise by our very actions. In my opinion, the human race is ****ing doomed by our own very natures, as it is inherent in our natures to destroy ourselves. Consider the irony of that, if you will. We are the next dinosaurs and one day....who knows when, we as a race will also get the "pink slip" in order to make way for a new cycle of a HIGHER evolution. I personally think that this is just a precursor to MUCH worse catastrophies to come here in the United States and the world over in general.
Im not a big fan of the president, but I dont think he would ever deliberately not help to the best of his ability in a situation like this. There were plenty of rescue teams trying to get people out, but a lot of them refused to go in when they felt that their lives were in serious danger from the pieces of human refuse taking pot-shots at helicopters trying to save people. Even the police in New Orleans are turning in their badges, because they dont feel risking their lives is worth it.National guard are being deployed and food is going as fast as possible. These are not related incidents, do not try to make them that way. Bush does not favor people and their lives based on their political views.
Its pathetic - wonder what percentage of my taxes goes to pay for social services for these worthless bastards.
09-03-2005, 02:13 AM
You know everyone is complaining about the response time of the military and comparing it to planned attacks such as Afganistan. The military plans those attacks months if not a year in advance. Our government contracts companies such as Parsons, Halliburton, Fluor and so on to provide support for the troops and aid to the locals. So, saying their response is a "National Disgrace" is just ignorance. The company I work for had people on the ground in Kuwait before the first bomb was dropped in Iraq. Please, do not get me wrong, I feel for the those people and pray for them, but think about this, it's been less than a week. The countries people keep comparing our support efforts to have been in these conditions for years. I am in Iraq right now. I would feel much safer walking around in the Red Zone than New Orleans.
09-03-2005, 02:31 AM
Eh, not to say that you don't, but to add to the Doomsday attitude, it's very rare that I actually meet someone who actually knows the Dark Ages were. Most people just assume it means one thing, and it really doesn't. You mention Germanic hordes and Norwegian invaders and the destruction of monasteries, and you just get blank looks.Originally Posted by Big_E
So much for teaching history.
Completely unrelated, I know.
As for the hordes swarming in New Orleans, well, in the Great Earthquake in San Francisco, looters were shot on the spot. And the theft and the formation of gangs came to a halt. I think we're a bit too PC for that these days, unfortunately. The people that are going to die at the hands of these thugs don't count more than the fear of race or being mean.
Now if they're just looting food, fine. It's just going to go to waste, anyway. Let the people live. But when they're running away with appliances and jewelry, it's time to introduce a few people to all the rope in Texas and a tall oak tree.
09-03-2005, 02:40 AM
This whole thing is just ridiculous.
First off, for almost a week prior to the storm everyone was told to get the **** out because NO was going to be under 10 feet of water. Something should have been done, but now it looks like a LARGE portion of the population stayed behind and Mayor Naigins did jack **** to get them out. He left them at the Superdome with nothing other than a place to sleep. Houston put much more together in no time.
Now, the Governor of LA was having a hard time deciding when to send in the Nat'l Guard....wtf for!? They should have been mobilized and prepared in advance considering for almost a week there was talk of NO being under water. But, then again, I'm sure nobody thought that such a huge portion of population was going to be naive enough to stay after the warnings. Leave even if you have to walk the **** out! The mayor should have prepared public transportation to aid this, too.
Now, the Federal gov't probalby took 24 hrs longer than necessary to get down there, but I guess you can call that a communication problem because nobody knew exactly how bad it was and nobody could communicate this.
Then, we can't get any private help because there are so many morons raping, beating, looting, and murdering -- simply taking advantage of the situation. My God! This is a time when everyone needs to work together to get things taken care of, not shoot each other and attack EMT and Police personnel. Hell, I even read one story of random snipers keeping hospital patients from leaving the hospital--who knows whY??? WTF!?
Just watching how pissed some of the ground reporters are makes me angry b/c I know it must be that bad down there...Shepard Smith at fox news is usually a pretty collected guy, but he's been going insane!
Now theres the whole race card....WTF...I'm not even going to go into that.
Oh well....for now I'm going to forget about all that and just hope the rest of the people get out okay. A few cities are giong to never be the same as a result...IMHO, not in a good way.
09-03-2005, 10:13 AM
You know, guys, after thinking about it....I would not be suprised at all to see some sort of terrorist attack during all of this chaos....in other words, while our attention is diverted towards this mess, it would provide a terrorist cell with an opportunity to hit us when least expected and while we are looking the other way. I hope that I am wrong, but it just would not suprise me a bit if some sort of plot was at least being mulled over and discussed by some radical Islamic group within the United States right now.
09-03-2005, 10:24 AM
or our own homegrown bit of crazy terrorist ****heads
09-03-2005, 10:33 AM
Personally I don't think it is a race thing but MORE of an POOR thing.. if you are poor then Bush and his boys don't really have a clue about you... it never dawned on anyone in the adminstration (local, state, or federal) that there were people in NO that HAD now way of getting out even if they wanted to get out. And guys mark my words, as this continues we will have more disease related problems caused from the water born diseases such as chlorea... then watch the mud sling start.. Fiddling while Rome burns...
09-03-2005, 12:25 PM
I just want to know this. Did a lot of people not leave because they couldn't afford transportation ? If that's the case then the mayor, governor, or gov't should have stepped the hell up to the plate and help.
09-03-2005, 02:10 PM
Even if they could afford transportation, where could they go?
Were temporary accomodations promised?
Some people have no means of affording temporary lodging for their whole family.
09-03-2005, 02:39 PM
its messed up down there - you would think the people in a "civilised" country such as the US would pull together to help each other to get through such a terrible situation - The Christmas tsunami disaster in South East Asia claimed hundreds of thousands of lives - they are still finding bodies - New Orleans pales in comparison. In contrast, the vast majority of the people affected by the tsunami were suffering from immense poverty even before that event and they did not act in the way that those looters/criminals/rapists are doing now - shoot to kill is the only way to deal with these individuals - its a disgrace to fire on people who are trying to help save your life.
I also firmly believe that global warming caused these disasters - and our modern way of life is to blame for that. Now we are paying the price.
09-03-2005, 02:50 PM
the thing is, I don't know if we are as civilized as we think we are.. think about it.. when was the last time that you got to know a large % of the people in your community? I grew in a small town in rural Alabama and for the most part I knew just about everyone in town.. Now we have so many new people in town that now I could really say that...
Global warming is not causing them, only mangifying the problems.. and it will be getting worse in the coming years...
09-03-2005, 03:02 PM
Well, New Orleans mayor has often been dubbed the country's worst, and although I stand behind of his criticism of the feds response, he also showed how inept he was in this whole fiasco.Originally Posted by Iron Warrior
he basically left everyone at the superdome without any food or water and provided no assistance during evacuation.
People should have taken the warnings seriously....if I heard that my town was going to be 10 feet underwater, I'd be pretty worried, and if I were the mayor, I'd do what I oculd to make sure everyone got the **** out who WANTED to. I don't see how you cannot evacuate 400k ppl in almost a week. Disneyland does it ever day at close
09-03-2005, 09:28 PM
Did anyone hear what the rapper Kayne West had to say at the Hurricane relief concert that was on national television today? He was quoted as saying "President Bush does not care about black people" and "They had it set up to respond as slow as possible because majority of the stranded people were poor and black." He also went further and said, "They see black people and they automatically call them looters, muderers and theives and when they see the whites, they just say that they are getting supplies for survival." "Bush even gave the military and police permission to shoot us black people."
Can you ****ing believe these morons that are calling the people who are doing everything within their power as human beings to save them racist just because they got there maybe a ****ing day late? Now I am FAR from being a Bush supporter, but with all due respect to this situation....HE IS ONLY ONE MAN. Just because he is the president, it does not mean that he is superman, nor are the brave and caring people who are sacrificing time out of their lives in order to do whatever they can to try and help these ungrateful bastards. (the ones screaming racism) Is this idiot actually so retarded that he cannot realize that the order to shoot on site was for anyone involved in CRIMNAL ACTIVITY. Last time I checked, you cannot eat big screen plasma tv's and guns.
They had to shoot a man in the head today because he attacked a police officer after trying to rape a 13 year old girl, but I guess just because he was black, killing him on site was racism as well, right? These radical blacks are the only ****ing racists that I see, as they are the only ones I hear screaming it everytime something does not go their way or if they are being rightfully charged after commiting a crime....it's always the same thing...."I am being persecuted, just because I am black," despite whatever horrible crimes against humanity may have been commited.
When will these ****ing people finally learn to drop this crutch and stop the REVERSE discrimination against the rest of the world? Hell, we even give them their own tv channel...BET. Now I wonder what would hapen if there was a WET channel, do you think that they would stand for it??? LOL....Yeah right.
09-03-2005, 10:07 PM
While this may not be PC, the majority of those that did not evacuate have never been out of the projects in their lives. There was probably some ignorance about this storm and and what it could do. Also New Orleans has been told to evacuate several times in the last few years with nothing happening. Gas not being cheap, many of the poor would rather be sure to get their beer and cigarettes than possibly needlessly evaucuate.
As far as being told to evacuate for a week, mandatory evacuation was ordered on Sunday morning at about 6:30am. The storm hit the next day. Katrina was a tropical storm/Cat 1 in Florida and 5 days later was Cat4/5 hitting the Gulf coast.
Nagin repeatedly warned people to evacuate and do not go to the Superdome unless you have nowhere else to go. I suspect Nagin did not expect 20,000 people to show up and I really don't know how easy it is either to secure food and water for that many people in a day.
09-03-2005, 11:07 PM
I saw the video...he was a total jackass...Mike Meyers and Chris Tucker were lookin' at the guy like "WTF is your problem, dude!?"Originally Posted by Big_E
09-03-2005, 11:15 PM
This was primarily a state/local failure, particularly a local failure. New Orleans has known for some time that it's city could disappear in a heartbeat. When I toured the city, even our tour guide even made that very fact known. What's pathetic is that the mayor never even began to evacuate the city until President Bush actually called him and urged him to do so. I'm sorry, as a mayor, you need to know what's going on, and you need to take responsibility for your city, ESPECIALLY when it's about to go underwater. You shouldn't need the President of the United States to tell you that it's time to leave. You need to be the man in charge.Originally Posted by Matthew D
Have you all seen the picture of the city school buses underwater? There are literally just dozens of school buses lined up, and they very easily could have been used to evacuate the city with just an ounce of local planning. It never happened.
It's all hindsight now, though.
As for not having the money to get out, that's a load of rubbish. New Orleans has the lowest rate of car ownership in the country, even lower than NYC. If there is one thing these people knew, it was public transportation, and that ain't expensive.
I'm simply not going to accept the no money excuse. It's just that: an excuse for stupidity (and dare I say in some cases) a lie to hide the fact that these subhumans intended on playing while the cats (or cops) were away. Maybe blame it on a lack of education, but really, a lack of money? They could have at least gone to the Superdome.
09-03-2005, 11:40 PM
This is only in the city that I'm talking about. Most of us live outside the city in the suburbs. Some people just could not afford it(no car, money, etc... , but some people really did not leave because they thought everything would be alright. We had to evacuate so many times and it was false alarms, so many times the people just got sick of evacuating. I don't think it is the military's fault at all. They are hard working guys that will work around the clock even after just getting back from Iraq and Afghanistan. I am a military guy myself. Maybe a government leader problem or lack of leadership(local government). They should have requested troops and help days before the storm hit. Even if you live in a suburb or north of the lake, there is still no power and money has no bearing because there aren't any stores open.
09-04-2005, 04:35 PM
Let's consider what has happened here. A really big hurriance hit NO and flooded it, which makes survival in the area tough. I believe we can agree that this is nobody's fault. Just the way the cookie crumbles.
However, confusion and finger-pointing arises when you consider the people still in NO.
Those inclined to think that the Government in general, or the "bush regime" in particular, ought to resolve the situation will ask questions such as: Why weren't these people properly evacuated? Why aren't they being evacuated now? Why are they not receiving good aid? Why has stability not been brought to the region?
The answer to these questions, at least as far as it extends to government, go right to the core of why some people call themselves "libertarians." I submit, for your consideration, that the government's sub-optimal response is a systemic issue, and not a matter of who is currently pulling the strings.
An individualist, such as myself, would wonder why those currently afflicted didn't leave ahead of time, and don't leave now. I place the blame on their shoulders. Perhaps fate dealt them a bad hand, but c'est la vie.
Anyone who has read Time Enough for Love by Robert Heinlein probably knows what's going on here. In that book, he postulates that if the smartest 10% of society were to get up and leave, the remaining inhabitants would find themselves in a rough spot --- culturally decapitated, if you will.
Compares this hypothesis to the numbers in NO. According to the 2000 US census, the city had a population of 484,674. The general impression I get is that some 30,000 are still in the hot zone. This works out to about 6.2% of the population (and likely, that number is lower since the overall population in 2005 is probably greater than the overall population in 2000).
Though I can't support it scientifically, I conjecture that the intersection of the set of people currently awaiting rescue and the dumbest 6.2% of NO's pre-flood population is nearly unity.
If my supposition is correct, and you believe what I say about the efficacy of government in general (and draw the logical conclusion about the performance you could expect from it in a situation such as this), then the current chaos doesn't come as a surprise. You have a group of stupid people trying to help another group of stupid people. Like watching retards on Jeopardy, poor performance is to be expected.
I still strongly believe that, as a society, we should help those suffering in NO. That is the honorable thing to do. But keep in mind the above dynamics when you wonder why the NO relief effort is such a disaster vis-a-vis the tsunami relief.
Basically, those suffering bear most of the burden for their state. Those who'd expect government to handle such a situation well bear most of the the remainder. Government itself only shoulders a small part of the blame.
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