Why can't people understand how useless BMI is
- 08-22-2005, 03:30 PM
Why can't people understand how useless BMI is
This is absolutely rediculous. This article states that obesity is a problem in the NFL because of BMI measurements. In fact, an actual endocrinologist states that a study that she did worried her, because she found that almost all NFL players were obese, according to BMI. How stupid can supposedly educated people get?? A runningback like Ricky Williams, with 6% bodyfat or less, is considered "obese" according to BMI!
Herrion's preliminary autopsy inconclusive
NFL.com wire reports DENVER (Aug. 21, 2005) -- The cool Colorado evening seemed perfect for football, perfect for Thomas Herrion to prove to the San Francisco 49ers he could play in the NFL.
A few minutes after a preseason game against the Denver Broncos on Aug. 20 ended, though, the backup offensive lineman collapsed near his locker. He was rushed to the hospital, and shortly afterward, pronounced dead at age 23.
"We lost a teammate and a very good friend," Niners coach Mike Nolan said as the shock of the loss sunk in.
The Denver coroner's office performed an autopsy, but said no cause of death could be determined until toxicology tests were performed. The tests usually take about three to six weeks.
"Our thoughts are with the Herrion family and the 49ers," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said. "We will be in contact with the 49ers to learn the details of what happened."
Herrion's death once again shined a spotlight on the overall health of NFL players, especially the linemen, who routinely weigh in at more than 300 pounds.
It came four summers after offensive lineman Korey Stringer of the Minnesota Vikings died of heatstroke following a practice in steamy 90-degree weather.
Temperatures were nowhere near that -- mid-60s with 50 percent humidity -- when Herrion was on the field. And while heatstroke is still possible under such mild conditions, the notion that Herrion, or any football player, is in good enough shape to handle rigorous game conditions simply because he's a professional athlete is being questioned all over again.
The first-year guard, a longshot to make the final roster, was listed at 6-foot-3, 310 pounds, about average for an NFL lineman. But when measured on the body-mass index scale, which is a commonly accepted standard of fitness in the medical community, Herrion would be considered "severely obese."
And though obesity can't necessarily be blamed for the death -- at least not at this point -- one expert says it surely could have been a contributor.
"Yes, it could be totally unrelated to his weight, but the fact remains that he was 6-3 and he weighed 310 pounds and probably should have been 210 pounds," said Dr. Joyce Harp, a University of North Carolina endocrinologist who recently did a study calculating the BMIs of all NFL players and found that almost all players qualified as overweight or obese.
Before starting training camp last month, Herrion passed the broad range of physicals the NFL demands from all its players.
One of his former coaches at Kilgore College in Texas, Travis Fox, said he roomed with Herrion this summer and watched the lineman work out in the 97-degree Texas heat.
"The young man was in shape," Fox said.
Herrion played his college ball at Utah, and so was accustomed to playing in high altitude such as Denver's, which can intensify dehydration.
He was running down the field with the third- and fourth-team players -- the ones hoping to grab one of the final 53 roster spots -- during a frantic, 14-play, 91-yard drive that ended with 2 seconds left in San Francisco's 26-21 loss. While taxing, it certainly wasn't anything out of the ordinary for a professional football player.
After the game, Herrion looked tired, but was walking around the field, shaking hands with the Broncos and joking with some of the 49ers staff. As always in the locker room, medical staffers were on hand. Paramedics were performing CPR on Herrion within moments of his collapse.
"We have done everything medically we could do," said Gene Upshaw, head of the players union. "We have doctors trained in emergency medicine, in heart problems and other specialties standing by at every game. It's not just internists. It's people who know what to do in every emergency. It just wasn't enough."
Stringer's death prompted the NFL to increase efforts to teach players about managing the heat and dehydration. Many teams moved practices out of the hottest hours of the day and began better monitoring of how much liquid players were drinking.
Others have started using devices to measure players' core body temperatures -- a good preventive measure, but almost certainly not something that could have saved Herrion.
Herrion adds to a very short list of NFL deaths that also includes St. Louis Cardinals tight end J.V. Cain, who died of a heart attack during training camp in 1979, and Detroit Lions receiver Chuck Hughes, who died of a heart attack during a game in 1971.
Herrion spent part of last season on the San Francisco and Dallas practice squads. He also played this season with the Hamburg Sea Devils of NFL Europe.
"I think everybody that came into contact with him feels the impact of what just happened," said Sione Pouha, Herrion's college teammate at Utah who's now a rookie defensive tackle with the New York Jets. "It really makes you come down to earth and realize what you really have. It was a shocker. You can't sleep after that."
The Associated Press News Service
Copyright 2005, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved
- 08-22-2005, 03:58 PM
See, this is why I hate people. This is why I hate doctors. The most of them are idiots. I rely on PubMed for all my medical needs. They have facts, not BS.
- 08-22-2005, 06:59 PM
LOl, well yeah it does get farfetched, but remember that when you pack a gross amount of weight on a frame it does have an ill effect on the heart. This being said, if you train the heart accordingly then the problem is lowered greatly. The bad thing about it is that most people who are into body building or power lifting are not worried about cardiovascular health as much as your average runner. Or, more accurately, when bodybuilding, it is adverse to train to much for cardio
I can vouch for that myself, from age 20-23, i packed on nearly 33 lbs on a 189lb frame and i easily could tell i wasnt in shape for it. I had trouble running short sprints without feeling like my heart was going to jump outta my chest or running period due to extensive knee pain....
Regardless of BMI, overweight is still overweight, but u can be overweight and be healthy, or you can be overweight an be quite unhealthy.---The destruction of my enemies is to make them my friends---
08-22-2005, 08:15 PM
all the BMI does is assign "average" weights to specific heights. I don't think bodybuilders were considered in its design, obviously we have the sense to see the distinction. To think a doctor of medicine wouldn't know an NFL player is trained to do to work they do, and who relies on the BMI for athletes is rediculous.
08-22-2005, 08:17 PM
That's because the BMI is supposed to be a subjective not an objective tool. It has it uses, espescially in the realm of the insurance world to help classify risks. To make a blanket statement that anyone with a BMI over 26 is overweight is ludicrous/ignorant.Originally Posted by BigDick
08-22-2005, 09:25 PM
BMI should never be used for athletes or those that spend a lot of time resistance training. However, if you were to go and pick 100 people off of the street, it would be a pretty good tool. Just seems like it always used out of context.
08-23-2005, 12:25 AM
There were some studies not too long ago that showed that waist size was a better predictor of heart issues than BMI for men. (Captain Obvious here, but it was published.)
08-23-2005, 12:39 AM
well guys it looks like im going to die since im a 29.8 on the old BMI. lets see what some other people are.
im 6'2, 232lbs 10% bodyfat
Below 18.5 Underweight 18.5 – 24.9 Normal 25.0 – 29.9 Overweight 30.0 and AboveObese
08-23-2005, 08:13 AM
So ronnie coleman at 296 at about 6 foot and say 2-3% bodyfat on stage is in MAJOR danger
08-23-2005, 08:18 AM
32.3, damn i am a fat bastard.
08-23-2005, 09:22 AM
Well actually that probably isn't too healthy either...Originally Posted by davisville64
08-23-2005, 09:29 AM
agreed, ronnie ain't exactly the ideal picture for health.Originally Posted by bda55
08-24-2005, 12:23 PM
Like every thing else in life, there are good doctors and bad doctors. With all the training and educational background, you would think all doctors would be highly informed and up to date, but unfortunately this is not the case. I am a doctor myself and I try to always stay on top of things and use reputable research info to help me. Also, I like to think that I have some common sense unlike this doctor. Adding to the problem is the media; they always search out the person who is going to give them the "best" story which does not always correlate with the truth. It seems as though they have an "idiot" radar. Maybe it is because they are complete and utter idiots as well. I beleive a good research study would back that opinion up quite nicely. Anyway, BMI is definitely not good indicator of health status, it is a decent screening modality at best. We all know that a large, muscular athlete will not have a good BMI although he/she may be in perfect health. MY 2 CENTS!
08-24-2005, 05:32 PM
did nobody catch the .........."Herrion adds to a very short list of NFL deaths that also includes St. Louis Cardinals tight end J.V. Cain"
08-24-2005, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Klaus
Just look at that striated fat.
08-24-2005, 05:40 PM
Yeah, I don't know what the deal with that is. ESPN even said he didn't use supplements or drink alcohol. Herrion did have a family histoyry of heart disease according to ESPN anchor Steve Levy.Originally Posted by danTman2
BTW, people want to hear that the BMI is the gold standard because the misinformed average Joe who is 5-10 180 with 25-30% BF would love to hear that he's healthier than NFL superstar's while he's drinking a 40 and downing 3 hot dogs while he watches TV the rest of the evening
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