Not all Estrogen, and estrogen derivaties are bad
- 06-09-2005, 03:08 PM
Not all Estrogen, and estrogen derivaties are bad
There is a metabolite in urine(oleyl estrone) which is a metabolite of Estrogen. Oleoyl estrone is a drug that causes weight and fat loss. Pharmacologically, the effects of oleyl estrone have in the body are "superimposable" with beta-3-andrenergic agonist agents (such as clenbuterol). This is an agent that reduces appetite, causes fat and weight loss and spares muscle, whle not inducing a side effect of fatigue or even tremors that are obviously occurs in many stimulants that are used to aid in fat loss. Animal studies have tested the product by itself (it works to the tune of about 66 percent of a beta-3-agent) and in combination with a beta-3-adrenergic drug (there is synergy) In addition, scientists have tested this drug in combination with sibutramine (Meridia) and the results is a better, more effective Meridia. It appears that oleoyl estrone (made by Manhattan Pharmacueticals) is a compound to watch and the early data demonstrates that it works great on its own and better if combined with a beta-3-adnergic agonists or medications that effect serotonin.
- 06-09-2005, 04:05 PM
Estrogen is an essential hormone for helping to maintain a healthy lipid profile, i.e. HDL/LDL ratio. That is one reason why anti-e usage should be limited in duration and dosages just high enough to avoid excessive aromatization effects during or just prior to AAS cycles. IMO suppressed est levels for extended periods of time is probably another contributing factor to increase of heart problems for long term AAS users. So be careful folks...
- 06-09-2005, 07:31 PM
06-09-2005, 07:39 PM
06-10-2005, 02:58 PM
Do you have any actual proof that estrogen is essential to maintain "a healthy lipid profile"? I've seen numerous studies albeit it with women on anti-estrogens, AIs and SERMs with no ill effects on lipid profiles. Same for post menopausal women whom should also experience a decrease in estrogen levels. Although there has been purported increase in cardiovascular disease in post menopausal women as well though I'm sure diet plays the major factor.Originally Posted by die2live
I just don't see estrogen as being vital in males even to maintain a healthy lipid profile. I'm probably wrong though as one does need a moderate level of estrogen but I really haven't seen any studies that prove it. It seems that exogenous increases in T are bad for the cardiovascular system while low levels of endogenous T also increase the risk for heart disease. So my natural inclination is to believe a moderate level is needed and perhaps E falls within that realm as well.
06-10-2005, 05:30 PM
Skewed ratioes of steroid hormones are more the prime culprit in lipid and other endocrine problems rather than the action of one particular hormone. One of the key benefits of HRT in men is a leveling off of lipid values and stabilization of thyroid hormones. In women, estrogen dominance where E is far higher than progesterone levels causes numerous problems..lipid, thyroid, bone loss, general female nuttiness and loss of libido.
Also keep in mind that many (but not all) AI's won't cause E levels to dive below baseline levels, rather they inhibit the production or binding of excess E. One should never rely on AI or serms when not cycling as they often have toxic effects of their own.
IMO the prime culprit in AAS related heart disease is the use of methyls. The BBing industry has taken a rather irresponsible stance that seems to say that "having lipid values in the single digits for weeks at a time, while doing strenous excercise is just fine..watch that liver though." This is absurd and I think one of the main reasons we see so many heart attacks in heavy AAS users. Certainly there are many other contributing issues.
06-11-2005, 01:01 PM
Well just read about a new estrogen derivative product from Legal gear from its website but isn't the estrogen derivative I was talking about though. I read a clinical study but I can't remember the site I got the information from. Soon as I find it I will post link on this board. Probably later on todayOriginally Posted by rhinochaser48
06-15-2005, 09:29 PM
Sorry didn't follow up on this thread for a while, some very good points though and Bioman certainly has some valid points as well as good intuition IMO on this point. I have read a few articles on E levels in males and HDL balance in lipid profiles but I need to refresh so I can cite them here for everyone to read. I seem to recall the basic argument about extreme E supression in males was the corresponding drastic lowering of HDL count during and shortly after supression. But the details are escaping me and we all know the devil is in the details......
06-16-2005, 06:15 PM
Here you go guy:Originally Posted by rhinochaser48
those are just a few.
06-16-2005, 11:41 PM
06-18-2005, 01:19 PM
06-18-2005, 02:01 PM
I saw an article about this stuff in last months Muscular Development. Now to go about finding a source...
06-20-2005, 07:12 PM
Yeah it is where I first heard and read about. Sometimes Muscular Development has some very useful and fantastic research information. I have been doing a lot of research on topical tamoxifen citrate as a hairloss treatment option. Some of the research sounds and appear promising.Originally Posted by joebiggie
05-06-2007, 03:59 PM
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