McCain: Baseball 'can't be trusted'

**CEDeoudes59** · 03-22-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natedogg

I agree Matt. But what about these kids who have no father figures in their lives. I'm just saying it happens. Not everyone is a good parent...you know.

nate where can I email you at? I've lost your mail....

natedogg · 03-22-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deoudes59

nate where can I email you at? I've lost your mail....

Check my user profile. It should be in there.

**CEDeoudes59** · 03-22-2005, 04:43 PM

thanks YGM.

griz145389 · 03-23-2005, 01:33 AM

[quote=hogiejoe]

"We are entitled to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not a contract in the majors", that line is exquisetly ridiculous in this argument. killing people makes me happy so i should be able to do it.

QUOTE]

You are taking my quote out of context. Later on I said that athletes should be able to put into their bodies what they wanted as long as they were not harming someone else. Please argue with the points I am making, not a tangent that I was not implying.

The pursuit of happiness is a guarantee as long as you are not harming anyone else. The day that any of my children respects a pro athlete more than me is the day that I have failed as a father.

**kwyckemynd00** · 03-23-2005, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew D

McCain's an ass anyway, he doesn't think that anyone can be trusted.. reminds me of a certain senator from Wisconson in the 1950's... McCarthey anyone?

BUMP...McCain is a douche bag...I can't stand the guy.

**kwyckemynd00** · 03-23-2005, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecski

..
Surgery was created to cure disease, and look how many people get implants, lipo, or facelifts to improve their looks....

I like that analogy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew D

But it begs the question, why in the hell is it illegal in the first place? Why does steriods carry the same penalty as herion in jail time? Perscription yes.. class III I don't think is a fair classification..

Exactly...I can agree with something like an age limit or an RX (w/ Dr. supervision), but to make these drugs "AS" illegal as heroin, cocaine, etc (drugs that literally destroy the lives of MASSES) is absolutely ridiculous.

**kwyckemynd00** · 03-23-2005, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natedogg

....Are using steroids setting a positive example for my child. **** NO! As a father it's my duty to teach my child of the dangers associated with illegal drug use and hopefully in the end he will choose the right path.

But Nate, don't you or aren't you considering using juice??? Haven't you used PH's?

IMHO, if you're going to tell your kids not to do it, don't do it, period. Or, at least don't do it WHILE you tell your kid not to. It'd different in hindsight when you realize that you "were" wrong. But when you "are" doing something then it just doesn't seem right to preach the opposite.

This is one of the things that lost my respect for my dad. He's smokes pot and is an alcoholic, but he rails on people who do the same. He trashes my bro for being a pothead...

I may be the only one, but given my current level of knowledge, if my kid was in his mid twenties and educated on the subject and he made the decision to use steroids responsibly, I'd help him out on cycle. Hell, if I can honestly say I'm going to use steroids, why would I bother to tell him no. The only reason I would tell someone no is if they do not have the proper level of education and / or experience.

natedogg · 03-23-2005, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00

But Nate, don't you or aren't you considering using juice??? Haven't you used PH's?

IMHO, if you're going to tell your kids not to do it, don't do it, period. Or, at least don't do it WHILE you tell your kid not to. It'd different in hindsight when you realize that you "were" wrong. But when you "are" doing something then it just doesn't seem right to preach the opposite.

This is one of the things that lost my respect for my dad. He's smokes pot and is an alcoholic, but he rails on people who do the same. He trashes my bro for being a pothead...

I may be the only one, but given my current level of knowledge, if my kid was in his mid twenties and educated on the subject and he made the decision to use steroids responsibly, I'd help him out on cycle. Hell, if I can honestly say I'm going to use steroids, why would I bother to tell him no. The only reason I would tell someone no is if they do not have the proper level of education and / or experience.

I would never codone the use of recreational drugs to any child of mine, whether it be pot, coke, or steroids. My wife and I will try our best to educate them on the conciquences of drug use, the rest is up to them. Now, like you stated, if my son was educated on the subject of steroids and he was an adult and there was no way I could talk him out of it, yes, I would help him to the best of my knowledge. BUT, I would still let him know that they are dangerous if used incorrectly and illegal and that the consequences for getting busted with them can be the same as getting busted with any other drug.

**kwyckemynd00** · 03-23-2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natedogg

I would never codone the use of recreational drugs to any child of mine, whether it be pot, coke, or steroids. My wife and I will try our best to educate them on the conciquences of drug use, the rest is up to them. Now, like you stated, if my son was educated on the subject of steroids and he was an adult and there was no way I could talk him out of it, yes, I would help him to the best of my knowledge. BUT, I would still let him know that they are dangerous if used incorrectly and illegal and that the consequences for getting busted with them can be the same as getting busted with any other drug.

Understandable

jjjd · 03-24-2005, 09:26 AM

the issue is not one of whether or not professional athletes use steroids and/or whether that is a bad example for kids, etc.

assume for the sake of argument that steroids are terrible evil drugs, that baseball players using them sets an awful and dangerous example for kids, and that there are peer reviewed studies proving that kids emulate the steroid use of public sports stars in large #'s

EVEN GIVING THAT, the ***issue*** is that congress has no place in telling probaseball how to police itself internally. period. pro baseball is private companies (teams) and congress is blatantly abusing (and twisting) the commerce clause to subpoena and strongarm these private companies. they are PRIVATE. their internal policies are their choice, and their choice as to when to conduct UA's and what to do about them

the govt. (fed and local) CAN prosecute for possessions/dealing, they can investigate, set up stings, heck they can even insert an undercover operative into MLB. all that is within their authority.

but what they are doing is not. regardless of whether it's for a "good cause" (for the sake of argument)

VanillaGorilla · 03-24-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

EVEN GIVING THAT, the ***issue*** is that congress has no place in telling probaseball how to police itself internally. period. pro baseball is private companies (teams) and congress is blatantly abusing (and twisting) the commerce clause to subpoena and strongarm these private companies. they are PRIVATE. their internal policies are their choice, and their choice as to when to conduct UA's and what to do about them

To me that is the bottom line. Alcohol and drugs harm and kill more people than steroids. It is also pretty clear that kids are abusing alcohol and drugs a hell of a lot more than steroids. Why not have hearing on that? The equivalent would be holding hearing on the music industry because kids look up to them too. Maybe McCain should tell the music industry how to implement drug testing policies so musicians are tested if they have a record deal. It's none of their business. It is not the governments job to tell a private organization how to run the business.

jjjd · 03-25-2005, 09:28 AM

right. and like i said, the CClause should be narrowly interpreted, because it is (in actuality) narrowly drawn. it is not an excuse for the federal govt. to stick its nose in everything. it's anti-federalism run amok. look at, for example, the VAWA. look at medical mj (and the fed's response).

i think that, for example, in the case of interstate transport (trucking companies), one could argue the commerce clause gives the feds some teeth. that's the kind of limited use of the cclause i can support