Buyer frenzy before prohormone is banned

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    Buyer frenzy before prohormone is banned


    Buyer frenzy before prohormone is banned


    By ELLIOTT ALMOND

    San Jose Mercury News

    <!-- begin body-content -->

    SAN JOSE, Calif. - A Web site advertising nutritional supplements says it all:

    METHYL D3

    SORRY SOLD OUT

    BANNED BY DEA


    The last days of buying muscle-building prohormones - used by Mark McGwire during his 1998 home run chase - have arrived, leading to a buying spree before a federal ban goes into effect Thursday.

    Supplement makers say recent demand for prohormones has increased tenfold because Congress last fall placed the dietary supplements in the same legal category as anabolic steroids - "schedule III controlled substances." They will be illegal to buy, sell or use without a prescription. Violators face up to two years in prison and fines.

    "Funny, isn't it: They ban the stuff and then the industry sells about 10 years' worth of product in three months," said Joshua Smith, owner of My SupplementStore.com.

    The ban comes a week after baseball announced a revised drug-testing policy and highlights how the BALCO Laboratories scandal has prompted more regulation of performance-enhancing substances. Headlines about the Burlingame nutrition company's involvement with elite athletes such as Barry Bonds and Marion Jones have spurred lawmakers to address the relatively unregulated $19billion-a-year health supplement industry.

    A year ago, President Bush signaled interest in eliminating steroids in sports during his State of the Union speech. Two weeks later, four Bay Area men connected to BALCO were indicted in what has become the biggest drug scandal in sports history.

    "As soon as we heard steroids mentioned in the State of the Union address we knew we were in trouble," said Mike McCandless, owner of Bulk Nutrition in North Carolina.

    Supporters of the supplement industry say the government has gone too far by banning prohormones, which can boost testosterone levels and increase the ability to exercise and gain muscle mass.

    "It makes health-conscious consumers into federal drug criminals," said Rick Collins, a New York lawyer and legal expert on steroids.

    But authorities say prohormones can have the same health effects as steroids, including increased aggressiveness, elevated cholesterol and liver disease.

    A New York graduate student who recently spent $400 for a year's supply of prohormones said he thought the supplements were a safe and effective alternative to steroids. The recreational bodybuilder, who did not want to be identified because of the stigma associated with the drugs, said they helped him bulk up to 280 pounds of lean muscle.

    Prohormones first gained notice in 1998 when McGwire of the St. Louis Cardinals admitted he used androstenedione, or andro, a steroid precursor banned at the time by the Olympics but not baseball. News of McGwire's use increased demand for andro. Soon more effective prohormones were marketed.

    Illinois chemist Patrick Arnold, who brought andro to the marketplace, said in an October interview with Flex magazine he knew his product would be controversial.

    "Knowing this, I made every effort to make it clear that these were precursors - not actual active hormones like anabolic steroids," said Arnold, who federal authorities say created the designer steroid at the heart of the BALCO case, THG.

    Collins said he realizes lawmakers are trying to protect adolescents and restore the public's confidence in professional sports. But he questions their methods because, he said, the majority of users are not competitive athletes.

    "They are motivated by a desire of nothing more than just to look better," Collins said.

    McCandless, though, said he is relieved some controversial supplements are being blacklisted.

    "You hate to see this stuff go away but since it has been giving us a negative image, I'd rather have it banned and get back to being a respected industry," he said.

    McCandless, 25, said the industry sold about $150 million in prohormones in the past two years. He and Smith estimated prohormones represented about 20 percent of their sales.

    Supplement makers say the loss of revenue from the ban will be recovered with new products because people always want an effective way to bulk up. Some suggest a prohormone black market will surface the way it did for steroids after their ban in 1990.

    Smith said he doesn't see why.

    "If you're going to risk jail time for a bigger body why not just go and get the real deal and do it right?"

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    [QUOTE=rrgg]Buyer frenzy before prohormone is banned
    McCandless, though, said he is relieved some controversial supplements are being blacklisted.

    "You hate to see this stuff go away but since it has been giving us a negative image, I'd rather have it banned and get back to being a respected industry," he said.

    McCandless, 25, said the industry sold about $150 million in prohormones in the past two years. He and Smith estimated prohormones represented about 20 percent of their sales.
    QUOTE]

    Typical McCandless statement.
    A businessman before a hypocrite.
    •   
       

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    Exactly. This ban just made the real steroids demand go even higher. Great job US government.
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    they helped him bulk up to 280 pounds of lean muscle.
    So at say 8-15% bodyfat, this guy is 305-330 simply on prohormones? Wow! Who is this guy? Why didn't VPX get him to endorse their products? :-)

    "They are motivated by a desire of nothing more than just to look better," Collins said.
    Does this mean breast augmentation's been banned too?
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    QUOTE "McCandless, though, said he is relieved some controversial supplements are being blacklisted.

    "You hate to see this stuff go away but since it has been giving us a negative image, I'd rather have it banned and get back to being a respected industry," he said."


    What BS. The only people in this country who say the supplement industry has a negative image is the media and politicians that are trying to create this negative image. Average Americans dont ever think twice about it one way or the other.
    They sure dont give a **** about steroids in sports. This is more smoke and mirrors to keep peoples minds off of the real issues that plague this country. Politicians sure aren't concerened about our health, what a joke. As far as sports are concerened winning is all that matters. Baseball was at an all time low in popularity until the home runs started, partially because of steroid use. And, if they do finally remove steroids from the olympics, it will just be in the USA. Most of the other countries aint gonna try to stop it. They will laugh thier asses off at America because we cant win a medal anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrgg
    So at say 8-15% bodyfat, this guy is 305-330 simply on prohormones? Wow! Who is this guy? Why didn't VPX get him to endorse their products? :-)

    Does this mean breast augmentation's been banned too?
    I assume he is a total of 280 pounds with a large frame and 15% bf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggzj
    I assume he is a total of 280 pounds with a large frame and 15% bf.
    I was being a little sarcastic. I know the article probably used inaccurate wording.
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    its a very sad sad day today. Last day to buy ph's
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    I didn't know Pat Arnold was the one supposedly behind THG.
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    Yep, he made the clear and the cream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lozgod
    Exactly. This ban just made the real steroids demand go even higher. Great job US government.
    Yeah right huh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggjohn
    Yep, he made the clear and the cream.

    What?! Where did you hear that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    What?! Where did you hear that?
    It's true. I've seen it in various news sources. I couldn't believe it myself when I heard it. My money was on kneller being the culprit.
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    I think Mike McCandles is a ****ing hypocrite, cocksucking, piece of ****.

    McCandless, though, said he is relieved some controversial supplements are being blacklisted.
    Relieved? But he had no problem selling and profiting from them huh?

    What a joke.
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    what I don't get is how you can sell them up to a certain day, but yet the following day they are illegal to even posses. I mean they should at least allow some time for people to use what they have.

    Do you think local law enforcement is aware of all this? Say they found some 1test in your gym bag or something when you got pulled over.

    h19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamper19
    what I don't get is how you can sell them up to a certain day, but yet the following day they are illegal to even posses. I mean they should at least allow some time for people to use what they have.

    Do you think local law enforcement is aware of all this? Say they found some 1test in your gym bag or something when you got pulled over.

    h19
    What the **** you doing having this stuff labeled as to what it is?
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    Some suggest a prohormone black market will surface the way it did for steroids after their ban in 1990
    Is this true? Steroids were not scheduled until 1990? For some reason I had always thought they had been controlled substances since their date of creation.
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    What's sad is the entire dietery supplement industry doesn't hold a candle to the profits from one major drug company, and yet the supplement vendors and their lobby in Washington are portrayed as some 400lb gorilla that just wants to sell poison to fools. It's a combination of a lot of things, but you can bet your ass drug companies don't want cheap competing products on the market, especially when it comes to things like antidepressants where they know the drugs they put out do little if any better than placebos.
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    the drugs they put out do little
    Well no, sometimes they kill you, right? That's doing something!

    i.e. celebrex.
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    Watch out, women. Exogenous estrogen supplementation is next.





    Let the feminization continue...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK117
    Is this true? Steroids were not scheduled until 1990? For some reason I had always thought they had been controlled substances since their date of creation.
    Nope. They were just regulated as "prescription only" until 1990, the same way that nolva and letro are regulated today.

    /karp
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    I think Mike McCandles is a ****ing hypocrite, cocksucking, piece of ****.



    Relieved? But he had no problem selling and profiting from them huh?

    What a joke.
    Ya know man, you dont really have any basis for saying that about Mike. Mike is a good guy, and yeah you think hes gonna sit there and say "aw well, i wont stand for this, this is outrageous." No, he's smart. Bitching about it and whining wont get him anywhere. Also, it DOES give off a negative image. Most Americans dont know the difference between prohormones and steroids; they think they are the same thing. Steroids have a huge stigma for being dangerous and life threatening. People associate the same things with prohormones because they dont know any better. If Mike wants to say that he wants to be respected, im all for it. And ya know what? He's makin some damn good money off it I bet too. AND even if you DO think hes a hypocrite, you cant deny that he gives great service to his customers. I for one will always be one of them, just because he treats me with respect and handles any problems i might have with any aspect of my transactions. To me it just sounds like you have a stick up your ass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccerGuy07
    Ya know man, you dont really have any basis for saying that about Mike. Mike is a good guy, and yeah you think hes gonna sit there and say "aw well, i wont stand for this, this is outrageous." No, he's smart. Bitching about it and whining wont get him anywhere. Also, it DOES give off a negative image. Most Americans dont know the difference between prohormones and steroids; they think they are the same thing. Steroids have a huge stigma for being dangerous and life threatening. People associate the same things with prohormones because they dont know any better. If Mike wants to say that he wants to be respected, im all for it. And ya know what? He's makin some damn good money off it I bet too. AND even if you DO think hes a hypocrite, you cant deny that he gives great service to his customers. I for one will always be one of them, just because he treats me with respect and handles any problems i might have with any aspect of my transactions. To me it just sounds like you have a stick up your ass.
    I have to agree. Mike was just being smart. When dealing with the press, it is best to keep a low profile. Anybody who remembers Bill Llewelyn's infamous interview with ESPN and the damage it did knows that what Mike said was the best thing he could have said under the circumstances. The press is out to sensationalize everything they can, like they have with the MLB "scandal." Best not to give them any ammunition.

    /karp
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    No, he's right. You want the media focus off of this stuff. It's what brought about the ban in the first place. Nothing good will come out of it. I remember reading this horrible article on Ephedera in Newsweek a few years ago...the cover had a pill bottle with little skulls all over it. How do you win against that garbage?

    In a lot of ways, I'm convinced the media is our biggest enemy in Iraq, too. You never hear about US soldiers storming an enemy compound, making advances. It's eerily resemblant of Vietnam--the way the press focuses on the negatives and ignores the positives/overall picture.

    In short, I'm glad to see the industry has begun to lay low. It's not going to get a fair cut.
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    McCandles....

    What I have a problem with is someone making that statement but having no problems selling the very product he is "concerned" about.

    IF he had problems with these compounds he couldn't have been selling it. If you don't believe in the products then you shouldn't be selling them.

    It's called ethics. And it's not these compunds that "give the suppelment industry a black mark". It's businessmen like McCandles who sells products and then turns around and say he's relieved some controversial supplements are being blacklisted.

    If McCandles were John Kerry you'd call him a flip flopper

    And for the record, I never said Mike didn't have great service. I have ordered from him in the past and always received amazing service too. It's his complete flip flop I have a problem with.
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    "And, if they do finally remove steroids from the olympics, it will just be in the USA. Most of the other countries aint gonna try to stop it. They will laugh thier asses off at America because we cant win a medal anymore."

    Steroids are already banned from the Olympics. And even if you are from a country where steroids are legal. To compete in the Olympics you are still subject to the Olympic guidelines which means you can't use steroids while competing in the Olympic games. Period. Also remember the Olympics store your urine from drug testing. So if a new undetectable steroid comes out and they start testing for it now they can go back and retest to see if the competitor was using the new steroid. And the competitor can have his medal stripped away.
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    To say that McCandless is a hypocrite is still inaccurate in my opinion..I think that he does believe in the products he was selling, but since they have a bad rep, he didnt want to be associated with supporting them wholeheartedly because of the bad rep. And NO, the bad rep of the supplement industry is NOT from businessmen like Mike, it is from the media and the spin they put on everything! It would just be naive to think otherwise.
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    The Media spin?

    I won't disagree they put a bad spin on things but lets look at Mike's statement as a media person might.

    Here's a businessman who WAS selling these products and then because of the ban can no longer sell them.

    Next, he makes a statement saying he is glad some of them (didn't indicate which but we can take a good guess as to what he's referring to) are going to be off the market.

    As a media person what would YOU conclude? Hmmm Selling a product that he is glad are now banned so he can't sell them. obviously he agrees that the products he was selling shouldn't be on the market.

    Mike JUST told the media what they and government have been touting for months and months now. Only problem is, now they have a credible source in Mike to back up their claims. "Hey! Here's a guy who was selling the products we are banning and agreeing with us by saying they are bad".

    Mike would have been better to keep his mouth shut. Or, perhaps, put a positive spin on it by relating it to other substances currently legal (alcohol/tobacco) that do fart worse damage to the health of Americans, etc.

    I can only hope that Mike's comment were taken out of context and I'll only believe that if the transcripts of the conversation were released.


    Edit for typos. **** it's cold in here. lol
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    And the competitor can have his medal stripped away.
    ...but not arrested, ever. They get special treatment and the double-standard is ridiculous.
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    Appearently Soccerguy, You know very little about Mike. Im pretty sure that even some of his closest friends would refer to him as a hypocrite. You most likely werent around when M1T hit the market and he was up in arms about how he would never sell the stuff because of the high risk of dangers associated with its use. And even tried to pressure those who were selling it out of it by scare tactics. Bro, he's definitly an excellant businessman for a 25 year old, but he's still a hypocrite. "MOST" successful businessmen are. Just because he has good prices and good customer service (most of the time) doesnt make him the most angelic individual to walk the earth. And I dont need to hear about how he was only covering his ass with that statement, because he has posted many things on the boards that say the same thing about his character. "BUSINESSMAN BEFORE HYPOCRITE"!!

    Id post some specific references but I dont want to rehash any old fires if theyve already been put out.

    Besides I still like mike. Its just like how I have friends that I consider *******s and fools, But there still my friends. Its a label, you earn it. Im an ******* too. Ask around, youll find many that would agree. Do I take it to heart? No, cause its the truth and I cant hide from it, so I run with it.

    db
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    Quote Originally Posted by db682
    Appearently Soccerguy, You know very little about Mike. Im pretty sure that even some of his closest friends would refer to him as a hypocrite. You most likely werent around when M1T hit the market and he was up in arms about how he would never sell the stuff because of the high risk of dangers associated with its use. And even tried to pressure those who were selling it out of it by scare tactics. Bro, he's definitly an excellant businessman for a 25 year old, but he's still a hypocrite. "MOST" successful businessmen are. Just because he has good prices and good customer service (most of the time) doesnt make him the most angelic individual to walk the earth. And I dont need to hear about how he was only covering his ass with that statement, because he has posted many things on the boards that say the same thing about his character. "BUSINESSMAN BEFORE HYPOCRITE"!!

    Id post some specific references but I dont want to rehash any old fires if theyve already been put out.

    Besides I still like mike. Its just like how I have friends that I consider *******s and fools, But there still my friends. Its a label, you earn it. Im an ******* too. Ask around, youll find many that would agree. Do I take it to heart? No, cause its the truth and I cant hide from it, so I run with it.

    db
    Excellent post, bro.
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    well, i didnt know that about mike. I was just defending someone I thought was true to his word, from what i knew. I apologize if I was wrong in anything...I was just going off of what I knew.
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    The government will ban anything that they feel can harm people............. unless they make money off it.

    If they really cared about our health tabacoo would have been banned years ago. I bet more people die every day from cigarettes than the total amount of people that die yearly that can be even remotely linked to steroids or ph's, But the government makes billions of dollars off tabaco.
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    Not to mention that second hand smoke is also a leading cause of cancer and death which means that people who don't even smoke and are around people alot that smoke are also at risk.
    At least if your taking aas or ph's your only hurting yourself, unless you kill somebody on a "roid rage" !! LOL
    but seriously the government claims where free, but where only free to do what makes them money. If they don't make money off it they will find a loop hole to make it illegal.
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    Deaths from Smoking


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    • 1.2 million deaths from smoking in Europe (The European Heart Network, 2000)
    • 400,000 deaths annually in the US (Mayo Clinic)


    Deaths from Smoking discussion: Lung cancer is not the only smoking related cause of death in women. The World Health Organization states that at least 25% of women smokers will die of smoking-related disease such as cardiovascular disease and Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD). <SUP>3</SUP> Smoking tobacco, using smokeless tobacco, and being regularly exposed to environmental tobacco smoke are responsible for one-third of all cancer deaths in the United States each year. Tobacco use is the most preventable cause of death in this country.<SUP>4</SUP>
  37. Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by drei
    "And, if they do finally remove steroids from the olympics, it will just be in the USA. Most of the other countries aint gonna try to stop it. They will laugh thier asses off at America because we cant win a medal anymore."

    Steroids are already banned from the Olympics. And even if you are from a country where steroids are legal. To compete in the Olympics you are still subject to the Olympic guidelines which means you can't use steroids while competing in the Olympic games. Period. Also remember the Olympics store your urine from drug testing. So if a new undetectable steroid comes out and they start testing for it now they can go back and retest to see if the competitor was using the new steroid. And the competitor can have his medal stripped away.

    I didn't say ban, I said get rid of. You don't honestly think that NONE of them are juicin do you? It's like the 20/20 interview a few weeks ago with the guy involved in the Balco deal. He said if a competitor tests hot, his coach is an idiot because it's easy to test clean when your not. He also said that when a competitor uses enhancing substances, he's just leveling the playing field cause they're all doing it. I tend to believe the guy because he's saying he was the one giving the stuff to several recent olympians and pro players basically incriminating himself. Why would he make that up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrgg
    ...but not arrested, ever. They get special treatment and the double-standard is ridiculous.
    It's kind of like illicit drug use. You can only go to jail for possession or distribution not for using it.
  

  
 

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