The 2012 bug is catching on!

[chocolatemilk]

I'm with AE... I don't understand the connections you're making Flaw.

[DR.D]

God's holy spirit is a interesting thing. It confirms the things you believe so you have proof of god's existence. Those without faith would never experience it therefore could never believe. I've seen God's hand in my life countless times. ...

When the Spirit confirms truth to me, I literally get a physical sensation to affirm the insight, almost like a shiver/tingles feeling. It's unique and unmistakable, and it's unpredictable with a rapid onset. I have experienced this phenomena since I was 21 years old, that's the earliest age I noted the feeling. I noticed after awhile that I could really trust it. It was the only confirmation that was 100% dependable. Anytime I was pondering the truth of some philosophical or technical issue, if that feeling corresponded with something I was thinking about I knew I was on the right path. I tested it repeatedly, and it always proved true. I couldn't find any verifiable instance when it failed! Which is almost unheard of in science. It was like a cool trick or special power, a benevolent confirmation I knew I could count on though I wasn't sure the nature of it. I assumed it was some neuronal phenomena where synaptic connections generated a physical sensation from properly integrated data in the brain, or something scientific like that. I was mostly thinking about the big questions of the universe back then, and my school major was nuclear biophysics because I thought it would help me answer these burning questions. (yes, I was a big nerd, lol) I minored in chemistry too, so I was very science minded. It wasn't until God found me at 27yo that I realized that "feeling" was the Spirit all this time, and I just didn't have the Biblical background to ever consider it. The Bible was the last place I thought I'd ever find the answers!

But what is so interesting to me, is that He gave me the Spirit even before I believed! The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, but in my personal experience, it's practically all grace. My faith was zero when He saved me. The grace component is profound with Christ. Perhaps He anticipates our eventual faith, and gives it forward? I just know I am extremely humbled by it all, looking back at all the messes He saved me from. This gift of Spirit is real, and available to ALL men (believer and unbeliever) as long as you sincerely seek truth. He rewards those that diligently seek Him, but you must be a seeker to find it.

[AE14]

So D, as an intelligent man of science, how do you explain it? Just curious, as this sounds so foreign to me

[schwellington]

This is exactly true!

A. He was crazy, and actually believed he was god even though he wasn't.

B. He was a con man, and said he was god even though he knew he wasn't.

C. He actually was who he said he was, God.

Exactly

and history shows us Jesus was NOT a lunatic- people wouldnt have followed Him so closely! Lunatics where not treated with respect in those days

Also if He was a lair people would not have risked their lives in following Him


That leaves me with one conclusion

He is the Messiah

[schwellington]

When the Spirit confirms truth to me, I literally get a physical sensation to affirm the insight, almost like a shiver/tingles feeling. It's unique and unmistakable, and it's unpredictable with a rapid onset. I have experienced this phenomena since I was 21 years old, that's the earliest age I noted the feeling. I noticed after awhile that I could really trust it. It was the only confirmation that was 100% dependable. Anytime I was pondering the truth of some philosophical or technical issue, if that feeling corresponded with something I was thinking about I knew I was on the right path. I tested it repeatedly, and it always proved true. I couldn't find any verifiable instance when it failed! Which is almost unheard of in science. It was like a cool trick or special power, a benevolent confirmation I knew I could count on though I wasn't sure the nature of it. I assumed it was some neuronal phenomena where synaptic connections generated a physical sensation from properly integrated data in the brain, or something scientific like that. I was mostly thinking about the big questions of the universe back then, and my school major was nuclear biophysics because I thought it would help me answer these burning questions. (yes, I was a big nerd, lol) I minored in chemistry too, so I was very science minded. It wasn't until God found me at 27yo that I realized that "feeling" was the Spirit all this time, and I just didn't have the Biblical background to ever consider it. The Bible was the last place I thought I'd ever find the answers!

But what is so interesting to me, is that He gave me the Spirit even before I believed! The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, but in my personal experience, it's practically all grace. My faith was zero when He saved me. The grace component is profound with Christ. Perhaps He anticipates our eventual faith, and gives it forward? I just know I am extremely humbled by it all, looking back at all the messes He saved me from. This gift of Spirit is real, and available to ALL men (believer and unbeliever) as long as you sincerely seek truth. He rewards those that diligently seek Him, but you must be a seeker to find it.

I have this also

I can also at times notice the feeling that their is another presence with me- that i am not alone like someone else is in the room- but physically i am alone- but i can tell i am not

and this presence- i feel it it is HUGE- powerful kind loving- like a Father


I believe it to be God

[schwellington]

When the Spirit confirms truth to me, I literally get a physical sensation to affirm the insight, almost like a shiver/tingles feeling. It's unique and unmistakable, and it's unpredictable with a rapid onset. I have experienced this phenomena since I was 21 years old, that's the earliest age I noted the feeling. I noticed after awhile that I could really trust it. It was the only confirmation that was 100% dependable. Anytime I was pondering the truth of some philosophical or technical issue, if that feeling corresponded with something I was thinking about I knew I was on the right path. I tested it repeatedly, and it always proved true. I couldn't find any verifiable instance when it failed! Which is almost unheard of in science. It was like a cool trick or special power, a benevolent confirmation I knew I could count on though I wasn't sure the nature of it. I assumed it was some neuronal phenomena where synaptic connections generated a physical sensation from properly integrated data in the brain, or something scientific like that. I was mostly thinking about the big questions of the universe back then, and my school major was nuclear biophysics because I thought it would help me answer these burning questions. (yes, I was a big nerd, lol) I minored in chemistry too, so I was very science minded. It wasn't until God found me at 27yo that I realized that "feeling" was the Spirit all this time, and I just didn't have the Biblical background to ever consider it. The Bible was the last place I thought I'd ever find the answers!

But what is so interesting to me, is that He gave me the Spirit even before I believed! The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, but in my personal experience, it's practically all grace. My faith was zero when He saved me. The grace component is profound with Christ. Perhaps He anticipates our eventual faith, and gives it forward? I just know I am extremely humbled by it all, looking back at all the messes He saved me from. This gift of Spirit is real, and available to ALL men (believer and unbeliever) as long as you sincerely seek truth. He rewards those that diligently seek Him, but you must be a seeker to find it.

I have this also

I can also at times notice the feeling that their is another presence with me- that i am not alone like someone else is in the room- but physically i am alone- but i can tell i am not

and this presence- i feel it it is HUGE- powerful kind loving- like a Father


I believe it to be God


as for AE14

I love science- absolutley love it!

But science cannot explain everything

[Army Guy]

Look at what is in bold AG. The only person of power that could put Jesus to death was Pontius Pilot. All other groups did not have the power to do it. They pushed for it, but they themselves could not do it.

Pontius Pilot, the only man of power to kill Jesus, washed his Ohands from that decision. Pilot gave Jesus up to the people, and the people chose between Jesus and Barabbas to be condemned and killed.

So his trial and condemnation did come from the people.

good point CM, and welcome back my friend! But let us look at it as a time frame. The Sadducees, who where then in control of the San hedrin at the time, were those I was referring to as rulers. They arrested Jesus at night in the garden. He stood in illegal trial all night. Was taken to herod that night, and was finally before Pilot early the next morning. The choice between Barrabas and Jesus took place early Friday morning. The only people who knew Jesus had been arrested were those who in fact arrested him. This would be like holding a state election and only telling 1/20th of electorate it was taking place. So IMHO the people only found out about this as he was condemned as he walked carrying the cross.

[DR.D]

So D, as an intelligent man of science, how do you explain it? Just curious, as this sounds so foreign to me

Well, I'm a man of science at least, yes. (it was very gracious of you to add the intelligent part though, lol)

I'm still not sure how to explain it conventionally, AE. Back then, it was not possible for me to be anything more than an agnostic before my revelation, and I would argue with everybody who believed (even my wife!) I would make fun of them, just like many atheists here do to believers, never acknowledging many of the historical aspects but quickly pointing out the unlikelihood of a Christian god. Why would such a great God waste his time on the petty affairs of mankind? That was my bottom line and my major hang-up with religion. The universe was just too big for such a personal relationship to exist between an almighty God and a little man on a small planet in a medium solar system in an average galaxy, etc, etc.. I thought sure, maybe there is a singular omnipotent creator, but certainly not one like any religion presented. I thought I could learn the mind of God through standardized, quantitized, analytical science. I was a thinking man, I didn't need "belief" to poison that! I viewed religion as a primitive form of science to explain natural phenomena in the absence of the necessary scientific understanding.

So to cut to the chase, had I not had the personal experiences I did, I would feel just like you probably. The only difference is that now I know better. It's a poor consolation at times though, when I try to convince you guys to take it seriously and consider than Christ may be the real deal, because I know there is no logical way to suggest you believe in something I can't even properly explain! It's frustrating. But just like half the guys here who use PHs, you don't have to know how or why it works to detect that it's no less working. Whether you can understand the endocrine intricacies of protein elaboration and anabolic action, you don't have to understand to take a pill and see real, blatant, undeniable results. That's how god operates, faith is the substance of things promised. If you take a chance to ask God if he's real, he'll honor that first step of yours by substantiating that faith with results. The results of God in your life will become apparent, and your faith in the unseen becomes just as strong as you believe a heart beats in your chest, though you can't see it either for certain. Just a simple prayer, all alone, from an earnest heart, and He vows to respond. You got nothing to lose! Try it man, I wouldn't lie to you or waste my words if I didn't think it couldn't benefit you and yours.

[AE14]

as for AE14

I love science- absolutley love it!

But science cannot explain everything

so that means god I assume......

Or is it something, like Dr. D said, that still needs to be searched?

[AE14]

So to cut to the chase, had I not had the personal experiences I did, I would feel just like you probably. The only difference is that now I know better. It's a poor consolation at times though, when I try to convince you guys to take it seriously and consider than Christ may be the real deal, because I know there is no logical way to suggest you believe in something I can't even properly explain! It's frustrating. But just like half the guys here who use PHs, you don't have to know how or why it works to detect that it's no less working. Whether you can understand the endocrine intricacies of protein elaboration and anabolic action, you don't have to understand to take a pill and see real, blatant, undeniable results. That's how god operates, faith is the substance of things promised. If you take a chance to ask God if he's real, he'll honor that first step of yours by substantiating that faith with results. The results of God in your life will become apparent, and your faith in the unseen becomes just as strong as you believe a heart beats in your chest, though you can't see it either for certain. Just a simple prayer, all alone, from an earnest heart, and He vows to respond. You got nothing to lose! Try it man, I wouldn't lie to you or waste my words if I didn't think it couldn't benefit you and yours.

the first bolded section is what gives me trouble to be honest.

[schwellington]

so that means god I assume......

Or is it something, like Dr. D said, that still needs to be searched?

One thing science cannot explain is God yes, but there are other things sir!


Take for instance the phenomena of science- there are MANY things science cannot explain- they have theorys of it of course- but no concrete evidence of how or why it works!


Same thing with God- you cannot disprove Gods existence- nor can you prove it- but there is SO much that SUGGESTS He IS!

[schwellington]

and if we could understand or explain God- He wouldnt be God

[chocolatemilk]

Same thing with God- you cannot disprove Gods existence- nor can you prove it- but there is SO much that SUGGESTS He IS!

I'm with you on this for my own reasons. But I'm curious in yours...

What is there that suggests a God exists?

[SELFofGOD]

I'm with you on this for my own reasons. But I'm curious in yours...

What is there that suggests a God exists?

YOUR REP POINTS !!!! HOLY COW 50017 !!! lol I change my mind on everythn now hehee

[AE14]

One thing science cannot explain is God yes, but there are other things sir!


Take for instance the phenomena of science- there are MANY things science cannot explain- they have theorys of it of course- but no concrete evidence of how or why it works!


Same thing with God- you cannot disprove Gods existence- nor can you prove it- but there is SO much that SUGGESTS He IS!

I respect what you are saying, however since the argument for a good portiono f this thread has pertained to jesus as messiah, there is substantial proof why he couldnt be, as I have explained before.

[Flaw]

Again, just based on interpretation. Nowhere in that quote is there a reference to anything about a second coming. Also bear in mind this is NT text and not OT which is what we were refering to previously

At Genesis 3:15 where God says "he will crush your head" this is in the time frame of the 2nd coming of christ when the devil will be destroyed. The final blow. That is my interpretation anyway.

What would yours be?

[DR.D]

I'm with you on this for my own reasons. But I'm curious in yours...

What is there that suggests a God exists?

Does science support the existence of God?

[DR.D]

YOUR REP POINTS !!!! HOLY COW 50017 !!! lol I change my mind on everythn now hehee

I know, right! He has like 200x more reps than the rest of us.

[schwellington]

I'm with you on this for my own reasons. But I'm curious in yours...

What is there that suggests a God exists?

Creation- not evolution my friend choco! But creation itself- i will speak of my own experience here

Every single snowflake that ever falls- is different none are alike

If the earth where any closer or further from the sun life couldnt exist


Look at the mountins the ocean things like that

sure this can attempt to be explained by science- but even scientist are starting to point to the idea of a creative intellegence!

Big bang theroy is actually a theory of a creative intellegence

[schwellington]

I respect what you are saying, however since the argument for a good portiono f this thread has pertained to jesus as messiah, there is substantial proof why he couldnt be, as I have explained before.

But there is also evedence He could be too