The 2012 bug is catching on!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    That's very true on all accounts.

    To say we are special... I don't mean it in a good or bad way. Just that we are very significant. There is something significant about us.

    Because just as we are like a cancer,
    we have come to heal cancer in others through medicine.

    Just like we have come to put creatures into extinction,
    we have developed the capability to create amazing creatures through genetic modifications.

    Just as we pollute the earth,
    we can develop a sustainable way of life and even improve conditions on this planet.

    To denounce our intelligence based on the wrong choices we make does not hold true. Regardless of whether we kill the planet, or rejuvenate it and improve it, we are intelligent beings.

    And I can tell you 100% there is life outside of our planet. But I can never tell you there might be intelligent life beyond this planet. We don't understand intelligent life to know how it came to be to say for certain it will exist beyond Earth. We just know of biological life... and we know for a damn fact there is more biological life in our Universe. But intelligent life? Hmmmm... this is a tough one. So in my eyes, we are special.
    Special and significant are two entirely different ideas. Have we as humans been significant? Of course, and we will continue to be. However, I agree with Self, I do not believe we are the most intelligent.

    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    We as humans IMO are still in our infancy. We have a long long way to go and evolve ( if we make it b4 killing ourselfs ) before we can even get close to understand the reasons behind the universe.
    Reps to you sir


  2. Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    We as humans IMO are still in our infancy. We have a long long way to go and evolve ( if we make it b4 killing ourselfs ) before we can even get close to understand the reasons behind the universe.
    Imagine if we lived a 1,000 years or more. The wisdom we would inherit. The problem is we die. What we achieve in our lifetime makes no difference if we can't live to see the outcome. In the end I don't ever see us making something out of nothing. The whole foundation of Human science is making something out of something else.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    However, I agree with Self, I do not believe we are the most intelligent.
    Ok rank organisms that we have discovered in our universe so far by intelligence? Who get's the number one spot?

    We have won the tournament of evolution because of our intelligence. You can't denounce us from being the most intelligent organism.

    And special and significant, they are not synonyms of each other so you're right. They mean different things. But I meant them in the same way in my mind when saying it.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Ok rank organisms that we have discovered in our universe so far by intelligence? Who get's the number one spot?

    We have won the tournament of evolution because of our intelligence. You can't denounce us from being the most intelligent organism.

    And special and significant, they are not synonyms of each other so you're right. They mean different things. But I meant them in the same way in my mind when saying it.
    Lets look at it this way.....are we really that intelligent when we have struggled to live with what allows our surroundings to strive? Not a tree hugger rant, but I think we all know that we as humans have been a plague on this planet.

    There is no denying our creativity, our forward thinking, however, I think other creatures are far more adept in their intelligence when it comes to dealing with where they live.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    This is a point I made also, that our understanding is subject to preconception. As kids, we literally take EVERYTHING on faith, and we become the product of our parental programming. For the most part, we are neurologically hardwired and psychologically scripted for the rest of our lives by the age of 5-6 years old.

    "The moment a little boy is concerned with which is a jay and which is a sparrow, he can no longer see the birds or hear them sing." - Eric Berne
    I completely agree. I recently was reading a article in GQ magazine. A interview with sylvester stallone. He talks about how his parents divorced and his mom was not very affectionate. He remembers her kissing him twice.
    He says:

    "You don't ever, ever get over that. There's no closure for the things that happen during your childhood. You're wet clay, and that's a dent that's been put in the clay. You can't buff or sand it out: it'll always have that fissure. So you've got to be careful, what you say to a kid; it buries itself in the heart like a hatchet and you can't fix the wound."

    It would be foolish to say your upbringing does not effect your decisions as a adult.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?
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  6. WHAT are you talking about FLAW ???

    Are you saying that becuase parents teach their children religion they grow up to be religious ?

    Originally Posted by DR.D
    This is a point I made also, that our understanding is subject to preconception. As kids, we literally take EVERYTHING on faith, and we become the product of our parental programming. For the most part, we are neurologically hardwired and psychologically scripted for the rest of our lives by the age of 5-6 years old.


    So I guess then everyone here still believes in the toothfairy , santa, and everything else then too since we are hardwired with the lies of our parrents ?

    Well as you can guess I do not agree at all with DR. D. Iam sure he will pop in here soon enough and enlightin me on what he meant by that. But reading that qoute in english I still say no not true.

    Many people grow up in abusive homes yet when they grow up and have a family of their own they make sure to treat their children correctly.
    Same goes for people raised in Religious homes , as children we do not have the right to disagree........but guess what , just as we grow up and find out Santa aint real some of us find out for ourselfs that God is not an absolute either.

  7. great convo my friends!!!
    Working on living
  8. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    Well as you can guess I do not agree at all with DR. D. Iam sure he will pop in here soon enough and enlightin me on what he meant by that. But reading that qoute in english I still say no not true.

    Many people grow up in abusive homes yet when they grow up and have a family of their own they make sure to treat their children correctly.
    Simply because someone has raised their kids correctly despite their abuse does in no way mean that they got over their abuse.
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Simply because someone has raised their kids correctly despite their abuse does in no way mean that they got over their abuse.
    oh ok so were talkn bout scarrd ppl ..........

  10. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Simply because someone has raised their kids correctly despite their abuse does in no way mean that they got over their abuse.
    thats true, but I will also say, we are all abused to some extent. We grow up despite our parents, not because of them.

    <disclaimer, that does not mean all parents abuse, I am saying that regardless of their best intent, parents will say and do things that scar their children>

  11. Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    WHAT are you talking about FLAW ???

    Are you saying that becuase parents teach their children religion they grow up to be religious ?

    Originally Posted by DR.D
    This is a point I made also, that our understanding is subject to preconception. As kids, we literally take EVERYTHING on faith, and we become the product of our parental programming. For the most part, we are neurologically hardwired and psychologically scripted for the rest of our lives by the age of 5-6 years old.


    So I guess then everyone here still believes in the toothfairy , santa, and everything else then too since we are hardwired with the lies of our parrents ?

    Well as you can guess I do not agree at all with DR. D. Iam sure he will pop in here soon enough and enlightin me on what he meant by that. But reading that qoute in english I still say no not true.

    Many people grow up in abusive homes yet when they grow up and have a family of their own they make sure to treat their children correctly.
    Same goes for people raised in Religious homes , as children we do not have the right to disagree........but guess what , just as we grow up and find out Santa aint real some of us find out for ourselfs that God is not an absolute either.
    Come on bro, you're smarter than that! You're an athlete who understands cause and effect, and you're telling me that training has no effect on performance? Nigga please.

    Now even though we are scripted in childhood, that's not to say we can't reject that script and rise above it. Very few people do though, and if they do it too young it often installs a rebellious counter-script that can be just as problematic.

    There is another way to ditch your childhood programming too, but even that is scripted. Some parents program "spellbreakers" into their children's scripts, that free them from their parental injunctions and directives once they accomplish some goal (ie: once you've had 3 kids like me, THEN you can tell me how to parent ...or... Once you start paying your own bills, THEN you can make the rules ...or... when you're finally as old as me, THEN you can do what you want... etc,etc.)

    But most people are not even aware that they're living a repetitive predictable script, making the same moves with the same hang-ups in the same games over and over again. They frequently say 'why does this always happen to me?' That's why some are winners and some are losers. Losers are given a tragic script, and repeat the detrimental behaviors throughout life. Often times they are completely unaware that they have the autonomy to stop losing, or they are just too scared of the unknown to finally live their own lives. So they stay in that messed up but familiar delusion they call their comfort zone, because at least they have learned how to manage their denial.

    There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.
  12. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post

    There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.
    "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

    Although a rebirth of the Spirit may take place we are still challenged to rescript our mind and behaviors for we are indeed truely still men with shortcomings.
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Come on bro, you're smarter than that! You're an athlete who understands cause and effect, and you're telling me that training has no effect on performance? Nigga please.

    Now even though we are scripted in childhood, that's not to say we can't reject that script and rise above it. Very few people do though, and if they do it too young it often installs a rebellious counter-script that can be just as problematic.

    There is another way to ditch your childhood programming too, but even that is scripted. Some parents program "spellbreakers" into their children's scripts, that free them from their parental injunctions and directives once they accomplish some goal (ie: once you've had 3 kids like me, THEN you can tell me how to parent ...or... Once you start paying your own bills, THEN you can make the rules ...or... when you're finally as old as me, THEN you can do what you want... etc,etc.)

    But most people are not even aware that they're living a repetitive predictable script, making the same moves with the same hang-ups in the same games over and over again. They frequently say 'why does this always happen to me?' That's why some are winners and some are losers. Losers are given a tragic script, and repeat the detrimental behaviors throughout life. Often times they are completely unaware that they have the autonomy to stop losing, or they are just too scared of the unknown to finally live their own lives. So they stay in that messed up but familiar delusion they call their comfort zone, because at least they have learned how to manage their denial. There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.
    You just contradicted your previous post.

    2nd this has nuttn to do with training. Childhood is not training for adulthood.

    3rd You can allways just rise above the negative and be a better stronger person becuase you can and have enough will and strength to do so.

    4th That lil paragraph I bolded is just a nice way of saying A LOT of ppl are weak. That I do agree with.

    One thing , in several of your posts you refer to " THE TRUTH ". What oh what DR D is this TRUTH ? If it is TRUTH what is your PROOF ?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    You just contradicted your previous post.
    I don't see how. I think you just misread it. I never said you were locked in by your script, just that you were definitely scripted. And no man is more hopelessly enslaved than the one who falsely believes that he is free. You gotta open your eyes to the possibility or else you're probably already lost in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    2nd this has nuttn to do with training. Childhood is not training for adulthood.
    If you honestly believe that, then you're already screwed! Seriously, that's just borderline retarded to say that brah. Where did you think learned behavior comes from, the toothfairy? lol

    I bet you don't have kids, huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    3rd You can allways just rise above the negative and be a better stronger person becuase you can and have enough will and strength to do so.
    Yeah right, that's why everybody's doing it I guess. Oh wait, they aren't! There are more and more unsuccessful and unhappy people out there, trapped in their sh!tty lives and tweaking out constantly. I see it in the new everyday.

    Coach always said you only play as good as you practice, and if parents don't properly train their kids, then they play like crap and become losers/victims as adults. This is a very common observation if you've ever seen an indifferent parent in the store with some bratty kid, you don't have to understand psychology to see how that sequence of losing results unfolds.

    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    4th That lil paragraph I bolded is just a nice way of saying A LOT of ppl are weak. That I do agree with.

    One thing , in several of your posts you refer to " THE TRUTH ". What oh what DR D is this TRUTH ? If it is TRUTH what is your PROOF ?
    That's the big question, isn't it? There is a singular truth, but no man can tell you better than you can discover for yourself. Maybe you just don't give a sh!t, and that's cool too. One can make a good argument that it really doesn't matter much anyway, but I still choose to seek it. That's the choice I make.
  15. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    Childhood is not training for adulthood.
    If you honestly believe that, then you're already screwed! Seriously, that's just borderline retarded to say that brah. Where did you think learned behavior comes from, the toothfairy? lol

    I bet you don't have kids, huh?
    I'm going to have to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not entirely ignorant of how childhood behavior development is training for adulthood.

    How does a little girl know how to be treated by a man? The way her father treats her mother and more so how her father treats her.

    How does a boy learn how to treat a woman? By the way his father treats his mother.

    How does a child learn conflict resolution skills? By the way his parents resolve conflict with each other and others.

    How does a child learn how to submit to authority, manage anger, manage his sexuality, manage his free time, manage his money....you guessed it!

    How does a child learn integrity, character, work ethic, perseverance, honesty, loyalty, discipline...?

    Whether you like it (or in your case know it) or not the paternal influence on your developmental years dictates many of your own.

    What you live you learn.
    What you learn your practice.
    What you practice you become.
    What you become has consequences.

    Now of course there is the absent parental influence that shows you your value and or worth. Then your playground, play mates and play things mold you on top of the influence that is imposed on you from the absence of intentional influence. The absence of intentional, or the unintentional influence, is often a greater influence than the intentional. Silence, or absence, speaks volumes that reverberate a lifetime.
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    ... How does a little girl know how to be treated by a man? The way her father treats her mother and more so how her father treats her.

    How does a boy learn how to treat a woman? By the way his father treats his mother. ...
    Yes, this is exactly correct, David. Basically, the parent of the opposite sex tells the child what to be in life, and the parent of the same sex provides the role model of how to be it. So boys generally become the kind of men that their mothers tell them to be, while their fathers instructed them on the details how to do it.

    Here's an example:

    Mom to son:
    "Why don't you go see if you can help your father in the garage." (instruction: be helpful, be good with your hands)

    Dad to son:
    "Hand me that piece of wood, son, and I'll show you how to use a saw." (lesson: now to be a helpful handyman)

    And likewise, girls become whatever their fathers instruct them to be, with the role model of their mother's to show them how to accomplish that directive.

    You guys here can test this theory. It means that if your script transaction went smoothly, your mannerisms and life script should most resemble your paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather. And for the ladies, your script will mostly come from your fraternal grandmother and maternal grandfather.

    When you understand the mechanism of script conveyance, it becomes very easy to understand the important roles of a mother and father in every marriage! And easy to make certain predictions concerning the destiny of offspring.
  17. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Yes, this is exactly correct, David. Basically, the parent of the opposite sex tells the child what to be in life, and the parent of the same sex provides the role model of how to be it. So boys generally become the kind of men that their mothers tell them to be, while their fathers instructed them on the details how to do it.

    Here's an example:

    Mom to son:
    "Why don't you go see if you can help your father in the garage." (instruction: be helpful, be good with your hands)

    Dad to son:
    "Hand me that piece of wood, son, and I'll show you how to use a saw." (lesson: now to be a helpful handyman)

    And likewise, girls become whatever their fathers instruct them to be, with the role model of their mother's to show them how to accomplish that directive.

    You guys here can test this theory. It means that if your script transaction went smoothly, your mannerisms and life script should most resemble your paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather. And for the ladies, your script will mostly come from your fraternal grandmother and maternal grandfather.

    When you understand the mechanism of script conveyance, it becomes very easy to understand the important roles of a mother and father in every marriage! And easy to make certain predictions concerning the destiny of offspring.
    ...and even further - I date my daughter. I affirm her as a young woman in ways that transcend - validate her feelings, admire her intelligence, encourage her dreams and aspirations, bestow upon her the virtue of her purity.

    Additionally, I am patient with my little girl in all the ways a husband needs to be with his wife - quick to watch and listen (look Daddy, watch me Daddy, listen Daddy) and slow to speak, a source of unconditional and unwavering comfort and security.

    I make sure to demonstrate that toward my wife especially when my daughter is present so she can see it in practical application in my relationship. She (and he) will know the model by my behavior.

    Of course they model my many unbecoming traits as well. I fail miserably when I do fail

    Bring up your daughter(s) in the way they should be treated and they will expect and accept nothing less than the example that she has lived through her father.

    I could go on...

    If we can be honest with ourselves a tremendous amount of our character, mannerisms, attitudes, behaviors and disposition is ingrained in us by the model of our parents, most significantly our fathers'. Having three children of my own I see why and where they got to be the young adults they are - good and bad - as do they, because they acknowledge it openly and pride themselves in it - for better or worse. Although I have boys and girls they most strongly resemble their father - just ask their mother

    A Father transcends!...but that is for another lesson
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.

  18. Funny how it is the Christian that resorts to insults when someone doesnt agree with your beliefs and you cant provide proof for your so called truth.

    Again with the childhood is training for your adulthood. If it was as simple as that then lmao a lot of us wouldnt be doing what we do now as adults.
    If our childhood provided the training for adulthood then alot of us would be doing tottaly diff things now.
    For example the kid that grows up doing whatever he wants , spoiled , daddy was never around blah blah blah getsin trouble with the law etc.
    Then he should pretty much be in Prison or at least a nobody working at Wallmart.
    Do you have any idea how many SOLDIERS fit that discreption ? THEY grew up, THEY decide for themselfs what to do for the better, THEY took up an oath and it is THEY who are now FIGHTING and DYING for YOU.
    They have become Honorable men after what was a tottal mess of a childhood.

    Still waiting for proof of this Truth.

    And Dunn ....yep still cant make lemonade, dang oranges. lol
  19. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    Funny how it is the Christian that resorts to insults when someone doesnt agree with your beliefs and you cant provide proof for your so called truth.


    And Dunn ....yep still cant make lemonade, dang oranges. lol
    You've been an arrogant, rude and abrasive douche-bag from the get go. If you dish it out you sure as **** better learn to take it or STFU!
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.

  20. example ? All I have done is back up my beliefs, go ahead and look thru this thread.

    So now its you telln me to STFU ???????

    Very well then I bow out of this conversation. 4give me for insulting your beliefs.

  21. Well since it seems that the conversations tone has changed a bit, lets redirect.

    I think at the end of the day we are all searching for something. Many theists feel as though they have "found" what they are looking for. To be honest, I dont think they have. For any of us to find what we are looking for, we need undeniable truth. For me, I am searching for the true history of man, and it is not in the history books, nor is it in the bible. There is much more to it than we know. When I find it, I will let you know

  22. Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    example ? All I have done is back up my beliefs, go ahead and look thru this thread.

    So now its you telln me to STFU ???????

    Very well then I bow out of this conversation. 4give me for insulting your beliefs.
    With that sh!tty attitude, you probably never will learn. You have to cut that playing the victim crap man.

    Now you know me. I like you, and even tried to help you with your cycle thread and diet plans, I've even been praying for your safety over there soldier. But Dave just dropped a lot of knowledge on you (and I tried to also) and you don't seem to have absorbed any of it. If you think you know better then enlighten us, don't just criticize. And please stop playing the victim and acting like you got your feelers hurt because somebody else said different.

    This is the gamy behavior I was talking about, and gives clues about your script. Think about it, do you find yourself becoming indignant like this a lot? It's a victim role, not uncommon with kids that grew up in an alcoholic household, or with an angry, controlling parent. If some sh!t really is going down in 2012, do you think you'll have the discernment not to be deceived by it, when you don't even know who you are or how you tick? I doubt it, friend.
  23. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    example ? All I have done is back up my beliefs, go ahead and look thru this thread.

    So now its you telln me to STFU ???????

    Very well then I bow out of this conversation. 4give me for insulting your beliefs.
    Here's one example of you and your antagonizing:

    THE OFFICIAL ATHEIST THREAD

    I also have PM's that display your behavior as well but I'll not post them.

    Dr.D has nailed you as the victim quite accurately. You send off these innuendos and condescending statements towards others and then whine "poor me, I'm a victim" - "of the Christian" when any post a retort.

    This is not at all about my beliefs. You have not inspired an ounce of contemplation and are zero threat to my beliefs. Who and what I place my trust in has remained the same for a couple millennium and your statements are not about to cause an ounce of wavering or reconsideration on my part.
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.
  24. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Well since it seems that the conversations tone has changed a bit, lets redirect.

    I think at the end of the day we are all searching for something. Many theists feel as though they have "found" what they are looking for. To be honest, I dont think they have. For any of us to find what we are looking for, we need undeniable truth. For me, I am searching for the true history of man, and it is not in the history books, nor is it in the bible. There is much more to it than we know. When I find it, I will let you know
    I agree we are all searching for something whether we know it or not. I think that primarily the "what", not the "who" IME is what may be the difference between us (not you and I but in the general sense) and in what we find.

    For me the infinite questions about the universe can worry about themselves for my greatest longing has always been in my heart and not in my head.

    "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    I agree we are all searching for something whether we know it or not. I think that primarily the "what", not the "who" IME is what may be the difference between us (not you and I but in the general sense) and in what we find.

    For me the infinite questions about the universe can worry about themselves for my greatest longing has always been in my heart and not in my head.

    "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
    I understand where you are coming from D. However, for me I am on a search for the truth about civilization. There is so much evidence to support earlier advanced civilizations. Read Ancient Maya text and it talks about it. Think about the Noah/Gilgamesh flood stories, they tie to a logical conclusion which is the thawing of the last ice age.

    Damn it....I am going to have to go searching again

  26. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I understand where you are coming from D. However, for me I am on a search for the truth about civilization. There is so much evidence to support earlier advanced civilizations. Read Ancient Maya text and it talks about it. Think about the Noah/Gilgamesh flood stories, they tie to a logical conclusion which is the thawing of the last ice age.

    Damn it....I am going to have to go searching again
    I love it when AE gets researching again!!!! that usually leads to great conversations!
    As for the the search for truth out there, Like DD said, we each are searching for it in our own way. I respect each person's search. However, when one HAS found what they know is truth, I think all in turn respect that.
    When Moses actually SAW God, there were those who doubted, and to this day continue to doubt... Does that change the fact that Moses saw the Creator??? No, but it DOES mean that the individual must find out for themselves what that truth is. For Moses, he saw, therefore faith was replaced my knowledge. For Isaiah, he saw, therefore faith is replaced with knowledge.
    "Blessed are those who believe and have NOT seen"
    Working on living

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Army Guy View Post
    I love it when AE gets researching again!!!! that usually leads to great conversations!
    As for the the search for truth out there, Like DD said, we each are searching for it in our own way. I respect each person's search. However, when one HAS found what they know is truth, I think all in turn respect that.
    When Moses actually SAW God, there were those who doubted, and to this day continue to doubt... Does that change the fact that Moses saw the Creator??? No, but it DOES mean that the individual must find out for themselves what that truth is. For Moses, he saw, therefore faith was replaced my knowledge. For Isaiah, he saw, therefore faith is replaced with knowledge.
    "Blessed are those who believe and have NOT seen"
    Interesting thought about Moses. I think the question is, what did he really see? The entire exodus is a problem for me for a variety of reasons. Onbe, the Syrians had Mises who led an exodus out of Egypt 100 years prior to Moses, and two, (sorry for the run-ons) all the plagues could be explained as a natural occurrence.

    Also, the commandments that Moses receives are of interest here as well. The are awfully similar to earlier texts (Oath of Clearance in the Egyptian Book of the Dead) and paint an awful picture of the OT god.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Interesting thought about Moses. I think the question is, what did he really see? The entire exodus is a problem for me for a variety of reasons. Onbe, the Syrians had Mises who led an exodus out of Egypt 100 years prior to Moses, and two, (sorry for the run-ons) all the plagues could be explained as a natural occurrence.

    Also, the commandments that Moses receives are of interest here as well. The are awfully similar to earlier texts (Oath of Clearance in the Egyptian Book of the Dead) and paint an awful picture of the OT god.
    oh my goodness what a great set of questions!!!!! AND POINTS!!!!!

    Totally agree on the plagues being the cause of natural events, which goes back to our discussion of God as scientist earlier (Which I truly believe he is and was) Scientific reasons for all the occurrences??? ABSOLUTELY!!!! but the timing OF those occurrences be coincidence, I think not!

    I LOVE studying the Book of the Dead!!! There is soooo much there!!! I will comment thus, and let the comments role:
    To those of us that believe, there is no issue whatsoever that there are bits and pieces of "Traditional Christian (or Jewish)" beliefs riddled throughout the writings of OTHER groups of people. In fact for myself it serves to strengthen my testimony of the truthfulness of these teachings. WHY one may ask??? This is the simple answer:
    For me, since the days of "Adam" God has had prophets throughout all times and all people who have taught "Truth" to the people as inspired by God. So as the centuries pass, one finds bits and pieces of these truth's riddled throughout the writings of these peoples. Each of these groups have, through their own disobedience, turned from God and many of those teachings have become corrupt. For me, what I see is testimony and teachings lasting millennia strewn throughout the pages of time. This confirms testimony to me, and also excites me to dig further as well
    Working on living

  29. Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    WHAT are you talking about FLAW ???

    Are you saying that becuase parents teach their children religion they grow up to be religious ?
    What's with the CAPS, I feel like your yelling at me :/ I actually don't know what your talking about either because in my last post I mentioned nothing of Religion. I mentioned how your upbringing, whether it's teachings of any kind or even events effects your life.

    I even agree with your one post where you said "humans are still in our infancy". I hope this wasn't hostile as it came off to be. :/
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?

  30. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post

    There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.
    "But YOU did not learn the Christ to be so, *provided, indeed, that YOU heard him and were taught by means of him, just as truth is in Jesus, *that YOU should put away the old personality which conforms to YOUR former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according to his deceptive desires; *but that YOU should be made new in the force actuating YOUR mind, *and should put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty." - Ephesians 4:20-24

    "Strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it." Collosians 3:9-10


    "*and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free." -John 8:32


    We can make changes though imperfect, For myself learning the truth (christ jesus and the news of god's kingdom" was the only thing that helped me change.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?
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