The 2012 bug is catching on!

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  1. Dunn, great story to open up a nice discussion. I laugh when someone says "I'm a man of Science," as if presenting Science as a bullet proof belief, founded on an immovable rock. Ha...

    Science is not complete. It is nowhere near complete. We do not understand everything about our universe. We don't understand spontanous generation from quantum fluctuations of the "Big Bang THEORY." Let's not forget the big bang is simply a theory. Even the big bang theory lies on 2 assumptions: that on large scales, the Universe is homogenous and isotropic. I won't get into detail because that's not the point here... The point is that something NEEDS to be true (something we can never prove), in order for the "Big Bang theory" to be plausible. Oh how much faith a man of Science rests on without even knowing it.

    Put your speakers up and check this out:

    A fellow member showed me this, Jasen.
    http://htwins.net/scale/

    Play with this a bit, it will give you an idea of how small we are. It hurts my heart sometimes to know how insignificant we are, and that with all our knowledge, it just looks impossible to understand everything that is happening from our small vantage point of Earth.

    We built ridiculous telescopes like the Hubble, send them into the far reaches of our solar system, just to take a snapshot of this:



    Maybe 0.00000001% of our Universe. And this is as far as we've gotten to even see with our own eyes. Some things seem impossible to see, for instance, one can never see the whole Universe, never. Our eyes just cannot grasp the entire detail into focus. It is too large. I think God is this large. We could be living on God but he is just too large to see.

    I believe we are still too early in the advancement of the human species to begin to accept what a "God" is, and where our Universe came from. The hearts and minds of men are still like babies in their evolution into intelligence. Make no mistake about it, if we don't kill ourselves, we will advance, and maybe, just maybe, we might come to understand our physical reality and at that moment, will God be revealed to us.

  2. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    All my life I've never stopped to worry 'bout a thing,
    Open up and shout it out, an' never try to sing,
    Wondering if I've done it wrong,
    Will this depression last for long, wont you tell me,
    Where have all the good times gone.
    •   
       


  3. I would rep u david- but i cant well said brother!
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  4. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    the first thirty seconds sums it up- God is TOO BIG to understand- but that does not mean one cannot experience Him!
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  5. Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    Christ did fulfill them- all look up the messianic prophecy
    If you go back a few posts, I mention specifically the ones he doesnt fufill, which is why he was never recognized by the jews as a messiah
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    the first thirty seconds sums it up- God is TOO BIG to understand- but that does not mean one cannot experience Him!
    In essence then, if god is too big to understand, all of our discussion revolve (as we knew) around the argument of blind faith. I think for many that is something that is very hard to swallow (blind faith). I know for me it is as well

  7. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Make no mistake about it, if we don't kill ourselves, we will advance, and maybe, just maybe, we might come to understand our physical reality and at that moment, will God be revealed to us.
    I think we are certaintly on the path of destruction. Have you ever thought about it like this? Many people say man is destroying the earth, which they are but have you ever thought that earth is actually fighting back? I firmly believe that we were ment to live here and no where else. Before we ruin the earth the earth itself would make sure we stop. Built in survival tactics. That's what I believe would happen if life went on without God's divine intervention.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    I think we are certaintly on the path of destruction. Have you ever thought about it like this? Many people say man is destroying the earth, which they are but have you ever thought that earth is actually fighting back? I firmly believe that we were ment to live here and no where else. Before we ruin the earth the earth itself would make sure we stop. Built in survival tactics. That's what I believe would happen if life went on without God's divine intervention.
    I agree Flaw. Very interesting concept. I do believe we are headed down the path of destruction. I believe we are destructive by nature...

    You know, there is a species of monkeys that get into territory warfare with other groups of monkeys of their own species. When one groups wins by killing all the males, they take all the females and bring them back to their territory. The females are then awarded as sex slaves to the monkey who killed the most males.

    We humans have no doubt practiced this throughout history. It seems the more intelligent a species becomes, the more destructive they become also. We are becoming more destructive! Where do you see God's divine intervention that is stopping us from our path to destruction?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    ... Where do you see God's divine intervention that is stopping us from our path to destruction?
    The more I think about it and study society, the more it seems something powerful and benevolent must be at work in the sublime (Holy Spirit?), constantly intervening to avert cataclysmic destruction. We probably don't even know the half CM, because it never gets publicized! In fact, it really blows my mind that we've lasted this long with all the reckless things man does to the planet and to one another. I don't know if it's gonna be 2012 exactly, but it seems almost certain that it's just a matter of time. The hearts of men grow colder and colder, and greed flourishes as whole nation's economies are poised to pop. I'm not a doom and gloom kinda guy, but something has got to give man, or it's an inevitable result of this gross imbalance.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    The more I think about it and study society, the more it seems something powerful and benevolent must be at work in the sublime (Holy Spirit?), constantly intervening to avert cataclysmic destruction. We probably don't even know the half CM, because it never gets publicized! In fact, it really blows my mind that we've lasted this long with all the reckless things man does to the planet and to one another. I don't know if it's gonna be 2012 exactly, but it seems almost certain that it's just a matter of time. The hearts of men grow colder and colder, and greed flourishes as whole nation's economies are poised to pop. I'm not a doom and gloom kinda guy, but something has got to give man, or it's an inevitable result of this gross imbalance.
    Agree with the both of you, and CM I don't believe its God's job to save us from ourselves.... where would the justice be in that. Just like we ourselves let our own children, and in my case my seven children with number eight on the way, just suffer from the reckless decisions they some times make...
    Regardless though... we humans are destroying our own humanity one bit at a time... and believe me when I tell you... war is an ugly thing. For me, actually being hunted by the enemy is a feeling I never want to feel again, nor is it one I wish upon anyone... perhaps that is how the believers felt under the reign of Nero????

  11. Ok my brothers, got a few PM's on the quote above asking about what it was like to feel this hunted feeling as well as the Army thing. I felt it was just easier to explain here.
    Now by no means is this solo to me. Every day thousands of our nation's finest patrol in harms way every day. However, only hundreds these days do this in a truly hostile environment. The hardest thing to do on my first deployment was getting in that truck and roll out that gate. It was driving that was the most dangerous thing in Iraq. That is where people were getting killed. It is at these times that one has to "Man up" and just do it. We have been trained to put the mission first, and that is what happens everyday there in combat zones. At one time I actually made eye contact with a guy standing off to the side of the road counting the vehicles as they went by. When he reached my truck, he stopped and began pushing a button on his cell phone. It was then we made eye contact and there was a hesitation. He finally recovered and blew the IED, but it was right behind me. It sent shrapnel through my vehicle, a soft skin non armored HUMVEE, but no one was injured. I thanks God over and over that day, because had the 155 round had hit my truck full on it would have killed us all.
    When I did get injured my first time in Iraq, I remember laying in pain on a gurney in Balad Iraq just reeling because of the pain. However, no one was over working on me. I grew angry and looked to the other part of the hospital room where everyone was at. It was then I saw the young Marine battling for his life. They were doing everything they could to save him and both his arms. It was then that I changed a second time. It was one of those times when one's pain means nothing, and I had never felt so ashamed. I manned up again and began praying for that kid, no more than 18 years old. I also watched as they rolled his battle buddy with a sheet pulled over his head next to me and park the body right next to mine. Things like that change you and better prepares one for dealing with larger issues in life.
    When I went out the 2nd time to Iraq, I was walking up and down the Iranian border almost daily. We had Iranian forts within mortar range, and watched them aim at us time and time again, but there was no fear this time. I had grown and knew that it was not yet my time. That didn't make me reckless, but better made me able to lead those who looked to me to help keep them alive.
    I thank God every day that I was able to come home through these hard times alive. For those who do not believe in the existence of God, I must beg to differ. I saw his hand daily.
    Working on living
  12. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Army Guy View Post
    It was then I saw the young Marine battling for his life. They were doing everything they could to save him and both his arms. It was then that I changed a second time. It was one of those times when one's pain means nothing, and I had never felt so ashamed. I manned up again and began praying for that kid, no more than 18 years old. I also watched as they rolled his battle buddy with a sheet pulled over his head next to me and park the body right next to mine. Things like that change you and better prepares one for dealing with larger issues in life.
    When I went out the 2nd time to Iraq, I was walking up and down the Iranian border almost daily. We had Iranian forts within mortar range, and watched them aim at us time and time again, but there was no fear this time. I had grown and knew that it was not yet my time. That didn't make me reckless, but better made me able to lead those who looked to me to help keep them alive.
    1 Peter 5

    To Elders and Young Men

    To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.

    Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

    Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

    And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
    All my life I've never stopped to worry 'bout a thing,
    Open up and shout it out, an' never try to sing,
    Wondering if I've done it wrong,
    Will this depression last for long, wont you tell me,
    Where have all the good times gone.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    1 Peter 5

    Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
    I think my friend that the being Humble part is the hardest... I pray all the time that I may be humble so that I do NOT have to be humbled. Pride is enmity, and overcoming ones pride is the struggle of mankind. It has killed millions, and that is the body of men not just the soul.
    Thanks for the words my brother!
    Working on living

  14. wisdom in these last few posts spiritual wisdom
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  15. I was watching something very interesting yesterday I thought I would share with you guys. It was about God and science's quest to find him. A very new and recently up to date documentary was narrated by Morgan Freemon (great voice).

    I'm sure most of you are familiar with wave particle duality? Well, quick thing, it has been proven scientifically that at the quantum level, atoms do not exist as solids but as waves UNLESS, they are observed. So look at a chair, turn your back away from it, and it's been proven that the chair pretty much disappears into waves or energy UNTIL you look at it again. Don't bother debating this. This is WELL established in the scientific community.

    Well, what other kinds of reality have this property? ...........

    Video games... Simulations.... The SIMS. Their world does not exist until it is observed upon by the controller. The SIMS creator got on the show and said we are living in a giant simulation. That the laws of the universe completely coincide with how they create simulations. Gave me chills.

    Well then they got into individuality, and consciousness. We obviously are not being controlled by a "Gamer." However, they then pointed to research that had been done with artificial intelligence... or A.I. They selected a bunch of people to have a conversation with this super A.I, and also have a conversation with a real human being. Surprise surprise, nobody could predict at all which one was the real human and which one the computer. This was showing that our perception of other people being conscious is flawed. And everyone may as well be an A.I. The only real focus point you know exists.... is YOU! You may be the only one playing the game of life. You may be the embodied gamer. You may be the creator. You may be God.

    Absolutely amazing documentary.

    What do you guys think of this?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    I was watching something very interesting yesterday I thought I would share with you guys. It was about God and science's quest to find him. A very new and recently up to date documentary was narrated by Morgan Freemon (great voice).

    I'm sure most of you are familiar with wave particle duality? Well, quick thing, it has been proven scientifically that at the quantum level, atoms do not exist as solids but as waves UNLESS, they are observed. So look at a chair, turn your back away from it, and it's been proven that the chair pretty much disappears into waves or energy UNTIL you look at it again. Don't bother debating this. This is WELL established in the scientific community.

    Well, what other kinds of reality have this property? ...........

    Video games... Simulations.... The SIMS. Their world does not exist until it is observed upon by the controller. The SIMS creator got on the show and said we are living in a giant simulation. That the laws of the universe completely coincide with how they create simulations. Gave me chills.

    Well then they got into individuality, and consciousness. We obviously are not being controlled by a "Gamer." However, they then pointed to research that had been done with artificial intelligence... or A.I. They selected a bunch of people to have a conversation with this super A.I, and also have a conversation with a real human being. Surprise surprise, nobody could predict at all which one was the real human and which one the computer. This was showing that our perception of other people being conscious is flawed. And everyone may as well be an A.I. The only real focus point you know exists.... is YOU! You may be the only one playing the game of life. You may be the embodied gamer. You may be the creator. You may be God.

    Absolutely amazing documentary.

    What do you guys think of this?

    certainly interesting to say the least, and I for one am not going to say I understand it totally.

    one other thing to add which is back from our original discussion, how many of you have seen Religulous? Please keep the Bill Maher hate to a minimum (I am not a fan either). His documentary is somewhat interesting and relates to our topic

  17. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    I was watching something very interesting yesterday I thought I would share with you guys. It was about God and science's quest to find him. A very new and recently up to date documentary was narrated by Morgan Freemon (great voice).

    I'm sure most of you are familiar with wave particle duality? Well, quick thing, it has been proven scientifically that at the quantum level, atoms do not exist as solids but as waves UNLESS, they are observed. So look at a chair, turn your back away from it, and it's been proven that the chair pretty much disappears into waves or energy UNTIL you look at it again. Don't bother debating this. This is WELL established in the scientific community.

    Well, what other kinds of reality have this property? ...........

    Video games... Simulations.... The SIMS. Their world does not exist until it is observed upon by the controller. The SIMS creator got on the show and said we are living in a giant simulation. That the laws of the universe completely coincide with how they create simulations. Gave me chills.

    Well then they got into individuality, and consciousness. We obviously are not being controlled by a "Gamer." However, they then pointed to research that had been done with artificial intelligence... or A.I. They selected a bunch of people to have a conversation with this super A.I, and also have a conversation with a real human being. Surprise surprise, nobody could predict at all which one was the real human and which one the computer. This was showing that our perception of other people being conscious is flawed. And everyone may as well be an A.I. The only real focus point you know exists.... is YOU! You may be the only one playing the game of life. You may be the embodied gamer. You may be the creator. You may be God.

    Absolutely amazing documentary.

    What do you guys think of this?
    Do I take the red pill or the blue pill? It seems a little out there to say a chair is no longer there if you don't observe it. And my only criticism of WELL ESTABLISHED SCIENCE is the Anglia University scandal putting out deceptive SCIENCE on global warming. When the leading scientist in that field get caught making up evidence or covering up what doesn't match their intended objective, I take it with a grain of salt. With that being said, I can't think of any agenda these people would have. I'm just not buying what they are selling.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    certainly interesting to say the least, and I for one am not going to say I understand it totally.

    one other thing to add which is back from our original discussion, how many of you have seen Religulous? Please keep the Bill Maher hate to a minimum (I am not a fan either). His documentary is somewhat interesting and relates to our topic
    hmmm I am with AE on this one. very interesting, but I don't understand it fully. Would love to watch that and see some of what they were saying. Where did you see it CM??? Might try to youtube it when I get a free minute.
    Never saw the Bill Maher piece either... man I have a lot of catching up to do. Agree with YandFree though... I tend to be very cautious about what science says is proven. Look at the 1 thing that we have had years and years of research on. It is tangible, one can touch it, and yet with all the scientific understanding in the world, we still to this day cannot reproduce or even predict it... what is this awesome phenomenon??? the weather...
    Great discussion once again CM!
    Working on living

  19. A much simpler example of what of chocolatemilk is talking about is sound. Sound can simply be described as an impulse of energy which causes waves to travel at a certain frequency. These waves cause vibrations. If there is no receptor around to convert those vibrations into what we "hear" then there is no "sound" as we know it. The old tree in the forest and nobody around to hear it. If you look at it that way, it makes sense that on an atomic level, atoms exist as energy or waves and until our receptors convert that energy into what we "see" or observe, they only exist as waves of energy.

    On a side note, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that we may all be our own god, because using the same logic above, until someone else observes me, or I observe myself, my atoms only exist as those waves of energy.

    I may have oversimplified things a bit much.

    I've said it once and I'll say it yet again. Science and religion do not have to be mutually exclusive. It is possible for one to exist in the presence of the other. The existence of scientific facts does not rule out the possibility or validity of religion. If God opened up the heavens and spoke to every person on the planet in the next five minutes, that act would not cancel scientific facts. I'll never understand why the most die hard followers of either science or religion cannot accept the truths found in the other.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    If you go back a few posts, I mention specifically the ones he doesnt fufill, which is why he was never recognized by the jews as a messiah
    One of the great ironies of the Torah is that the only Gentil that was ever mentioned as the shiach (anointed one or Messiah) is Kurus aka Cyrus the Great who was, gasp, a Persian.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  21. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by atjnutrition2 View Post
    A much simpler example of what of chocolatemilk is talking about is sound. Sound can simply be described as an impulse of energy which causes waves to travel at a certain frequency. These waves cause vibrations. If there is no receptor around to convert those vibrations into what we "hear" then there is no "sound" as we know it. The old tree in the forest and nobody around to hear it. If you look at it that way, it makes sense that on an atomic level, atoms exist as energy or waves and until our receptors convert that energy into what we "see" or observe, they only exist as waves of energy.

    On a side note, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that we may all be our own god, because using the same logic above, until someone else observes me, or I observe myself, my atoms only exist as those waves of energy.

    I may have oversimplified things a bit much.

    I've said it once and I'll say it yet again. Science and religion do not have to be mutually exclusive. It is possible for one to exist in the presence of the other. The existence of scientific facts does not rule out the possibility or validity of religion. If God opened up the heavens and spoke to every person on the planet in the next five minutes, that act would not cancel scientific facts. I'll never understand why the most die hard followers of either science or religion cannot accept the truths found in the other.
    As we know it...yet it does exist. Our inability to comprehend does not make void the existance of the uncomprehendable.

    Man has discovered and explained the power of God at work and has called it science. As a matter of fact science has already validated a good portion of the first statement in Genesis.

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
    All my life I've never stopped to worry 'bout a thing,
    Open up and shout it out, an' never try to sing,
    Wondering if I've done it wrong,
    Will this depression last for long, wont you tell me,
    Where have all the good times gone.

  22. DD,

    I happen to be a fairly religious person, although I'm sure I have quite a bit of room for improvement. My question or statement to be more accurate is this: I believe that God has set forth certain laws or rules by which all things adhere for the most part. (I know many of the accepted rules break down on the subatomic level such as causality in which it has been proven that the "effect" can come before the "cause") Anyway, the discovery of these rules and laws is science. It is the arrogance of man, I believe, who upon discovery of these laws fails to ask the most important question. That question is not whether or not these laws exist, but who or what created them.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by atjnutrition2 View Post
    I've said it once and I'll say it yet again. Science and religion do not have to be mutually exclusive. It is possible for one to exist in the presence of the other. The existence of scientific facts does not rule out the possibility or validity of religion. If God opened up the heavens and spoke to every person on the planet in the next five minutes, that act would not cancel scientific facts. I'll never understand why the most die hard followers of either science or religion cannot accept the truths found in the other.
    agree with this. I have stated before. I believe that God is the Master Scientist. He knows and understands things that we cannot even grasp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    One of the great ironies of the Torah is that the only Gentil that was ever mentioned as the shiach (anointed one or Messiah) is Kurus aka Cyrus the Great who was, gasp, a Persian.
    I love that prophecy in Isaiah 44-45 that Cyrus reads and then acts as the catalyst to bring the Jews back to build the temple. He was a pagan to the Jews, but brought about much good to them. However, we need to be careful with the term "Messiah" as a noun or an adjective. In this case, he was viewed as a great "Messiah" based upon his role as a "Deliverer." This was a title of description based on his historic actions, not his devine birth or role.
    However!!!!! he is not, nor ever has he been referred to as "THE Messiah," the Anointed One (or the Christ to use the Greek). Orthodox Jews still await that coming. Their view of the Messiah is he of the lineage of David who is to rule and reign while simultaneously defeating all the Jews' enemies. THis is what many scholars who are Christian refer to as the Millennial Messiah. He who is set to rule and reign after the SECOND Coming of Jesus.
    Also, Jesus was hailed as THE Messiah by the Jews in Jerusalem right up until his death. At that point, they changed it from Messiah to great Rabi, for the true Messiah, in their view, would not be put to death (that is by those who did not convert to Christianity). They do not, as Christians do, recognize the Servant Messiah... he who was to FIRST save the world from their inward enemy and sins (See Isaiah 53 referred to as the 4th Servant Song) and then come again in the fulfillment of the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times as the Conquering Messiah set to vanquish the world from physical enemies.
    Working on living

  24. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    As we know it...yet it does exist. Our inability to comprehend does not make void the existance of the uncomprehendable.

    Man has discovered and explained the power of God at work and has called it science. As a matter of fact science has already validated a good portion of the first statement in Genesis.

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
    ^^ This^^
    Quote Originally Posted by atjnutrition2 View Post
    DD,

    I happen to be a fairly religious person, although I'm sure I have quite a bit of room for improvement. My question or statement to be more accurate is this: I believe that God has set forth certain laws or rules by which all things adhere for the most part. (I know many of the accepted rules break down on the subatomic level such as causality in which it has been proven that the "effect" can come before the "cause") Anyway, the discovery of these rules and laws is science. It is the arrogance of man, I believe, who upon discovery of these laws fails to ask the most important question. That question is not whether or not these laws exist, but who or what created them.
    I would also add - Who abides by them - as well
    Working on living
  25. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by atjnutrition2 View Post
    DD,

    I happen to be a fairly religious person, although I'm sure I have quite a bit of room for improvement. My question or statement to be more accurate is this: I believe that God has set forth certain laws or rules by which all things adhere for the most part. (I know many of the accepted rules break down on the subatomic level such as causality in which it has been proven that the "effect" can come before the "cause") Anyway, the discovery of these rules and laws is science. It is the arrogance of man, I believe, who upon discovery of these laws fails to ask the most important question. That question is not whether or not these laws exist, but who or what created them.
    You and I are in agreement. You stated my sentiment more clearly. Thank you.

    EDIT: Hence my quote "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Science has established that there was a beginning, there there was a creation, but has failed to substantiate evidence to give credit to a Creator...yet.
    All my life I've never stopped to worry 'bout a thing,
    Open up and shout it out, an' never try to sing,
    Wondering if I've done it wrong,
    Will this depression last for long, wont you tell me,
    Where have all the good times gone.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    One of the great ironies of the Torah is that the only Gentil that was ever mentioned as the shiach (anointed one or Messiah) is Kurus aka Cyrus the Great who was, gasp, a Persian.
    It is really silly IMO or anyone to think that the Messianic prophecies were fufilled. There were countless at the time who were trying to fufill, and also failed in the same manner as Yeshua.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    It is really silly IMO or anyone to think that the Messianic prophecies were fufilled. There were countless at the time who were trying to fufill, and also failed in the same manner as Yeshua.
    I agree. I just find it ironic given the current state of affairs.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  28. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    I was watching something very interesting yesterday I thought I would share with you guys. It was about God and science's quest to find him. A very new and recently up to date documentary was narrated by Morgan Freemon (great voice).

    I'm sure most of you are familiar with wave particle duality? Well, quick thing, it has been proven scientifically that at the quantum level, atoms do not exist as solids but as waves UNLESS, they are observed. So look at a chair, turn your back away from it, and it's been proven that the chair pretty much disappears into waves or energy UNTIL you look at it again. Don't bother debating this. This is WELL established in the scientific community.

    Well, what other kinds of reality have this property? ...........

    Video games... Simulations.... The SIMS. Their world does not exist until it is observed upon by the controller. The SIMS creator got on the show and said we are living in a giant simulation. That the laws of the universe completely coincide with how they create simulations. Gave me chills.

    Well then they got into individuality, and consciousness. We obviously are not being controlled by a "Gamer." However, they then pointed to research that had been done with artificial intelligence... or A.I. They selected a bunch of people to have a conversation with this super A.I, and also have a conversation with a real human being. Surprise surprise, nobody could predict at all which one was the real human and which one the computer. This was showing that our perception of other people being conscious is flawed. And everyone may as well be an A.I. The only real focus point you know exists.... is YOU! You may be the only one playing the game of life. You may be the embodied gamer. You may be the creator. You may be God.

    Absolutely amazing documentary.

    What do you guys think of this?
    It is true that nothing is real until it is observed. The problem is that we literally impose a reality through that observation. So we see an isolated component of reality that we can detect, and ONLY what we can detect. It's probably just the tip of the iceberg of all possible realities. Quantum waves collapse under observation to form reality. We are all waves of energy, being held together by resonate forces that create our subjective human impression of a physical reality. In an objective sense, it's really not what it seems though! It's something more like The Matrix or along those lines.

    Just a few months ago a study revealed that our eyes emit a form of energy that literally impacts it's target. It's the reason you can "feel" somebody watching you, even if you can't visually locate them. This makes it easier to understand how observation modulates reality.

    The Bible states that ALL things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. That means if you can think it, then it's necessarily a reality option that is lawfully achievable. That doesn't mean man should pursue ALL things though, and that's how we fell out of grace, reaching for advanced knowledge before we were a mature enough species to receive it with the discernment to properly apply it. Now we are basically on time out, for playing in the street when we were told not to. It's for our own safety from a loving but disappointed parent, it's not some stupid pointless punishment. That's where satan exploits a man if that man has no standard of spiritual discernment, he offers powers (money, knowledge) in exchange for worshiping him and pushing his agenda. He took Christ to the top of a hill while Christ was vulnerable, and offered Him the same deal, but Jesus didn't take the bait.

  29. Great post D!!!!

  30. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    certainly interesting to say the least, and I for one am not going to say I understand it totally.
    It's hard to understand without going through quantum physics. But in quantum theory (the theory that brings you computers, satellites, lasers, weapons of mass destruction--the theory that will excel us into the far future) it states that particles are just waves of potentials (they don't exist) UNTIL an observer observes the particle (at that moment, the potentials all collapse into one potential and put that particle in space time).

    Now change a particle to a chair.... and the same laws apply

    Very weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    Do I take the red pill or the blue pill? It seems a little out there to say a chair is no longer there if you don't observe it. And my only criticism of WELL ESTABLISHED SCIENCE is the Anglia University scandal putting out deceptive SCIENCE on global warming. When the leading scientist in that field get caught making up evidence or covering up what doesn't match their intended objective, I take it with a grain of salt. With that being said, I can't think of any agenda these people would have. I'm just not buying what they are selling.
    I didn't want anyone arguing quantum theory. You cannot compare this at all to that scandal and you MUST accept what I said. It lays at the foundation of our most marvelous technological advancements yet. This is proven and established by some of the greatest minds in the world: Bohr, Einstein, Shrodinger... etc. This is real stuff we are dealing with proven through experiments. Trust me youngandfree... denial was my first thoughts about this. You are forced to accept it in the end. It is proven.

    Quote Originally Posted by atjnutrition2 View Post
    On a side note, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that we may all be our own god, because using the same logic above, until someone else observes me, or I observe myself, my atoms only exist as those waves of energy.
    It is not a stretch Atj. You call yourself a religious man in your next post... what lies at the heart of Christianity? That God dwells within us. It lies in Hinduism that we are all part of the divine spark. It has been said through history that we (Mankind) is of divine essence. I don't doubt it. Look at us, and look at the rest of the universe. I swear we are more marvelous than all of the universe.

    Also...

    You are always observing yourself. It's impossible not to. So YOU will always be there by your own observation. But how do you know about other people? How do you know they don't become waves of energy when you don't observe them (through all your senses). You can never catch them in the act of being waves of energy... yet science has PROVEN they become so. What do you make of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    It is true that nothing is real until it is observed. The problem is that we literally impose a reality through that observation. So we see an isolated component of reality that we can detect, and ONLY what we can detect. It's probably just the tip of the iceberg of all possible realities. Quantum waves collapse under observation to form reality. We are all waves of energy, being held together by resonate forces that create our subjective human impression of a physical reality. In an objective sense, it's really not what it seems though! It's something more like The Matrix or along those lines.

    Just a few months ago a study revealed that our eyes emit a form of energy that literally impacts it's target. It's the reason you can "feel" somebody watching you, even if you can't visually locate them. This makes it easier to understand how observation modulates reality.
    Well said D. You understand it very well.

    I wanted to ask you, why did the fish, in the bottom of the pits of the ocean, begin developing an air bladder millions of years before it set foot on land... as if knowing this was the eventual plan.

    Is this God's plan? Did God plan this?

    If so, it seems God operates under his own scientific rules. He doesn't seem to break them. He didn't magically put lungs in the fish. He did it through the natural worlds laws.

    I feel as though God would not simply appear to human beings in the same sense that he follows the natural worlds laws. Your mind may see him in a dream, it may see him in a hallucination... but I doubt God truly enters our reality. I feel as though the prophetic visions humanity have had were more of a mind's construct then Gods. What do you think?
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