The 2012 bug is catching on!
- 08-15-2010, 01:47 AM
Dunn, great story to open up a nice discussion. I laugh when someone says "I'm a man of Science," as if presenting Science as a bullet proof belief, founded on an immovable rock. Ha...
Science is not complete. It is nowhere near complete. We do not understand everything about our universe. We don't understand spontanous generation from quantum fluctuations of the "Big Bang THEORY." Let's not forget the big bang is simply a theory. Even the big bang theory lies on 2 assumptions: that on large scales, the Universe is homogenous and isotropic. I won't get into detail because that's not the point here... The point is that something NEEDS to be true (something we can never prove), in order for the "Big Bang theory" to be plausible. Oh how much faith a man of Science rests on without even knowing it.
Put your speakers up and check this out:
A fellow member showed me this, Jasen.
Play with this a bit, it will give you an idea of how small we are. It hurts my heart sometimes to know how insignificant we are, and that with all our knowledge, it just looks impossible to understand everything that is happening from our small vantage point of Earth.
We built ridiculous telescopes like the Hubble, send them into the far reaches of our solar system, just to take a snapshot of this:
Maybe 0.00000001% of our Universe. And this is as far as we've gotten to even see with our own eyes. Some things seem impossible to see, for instance, one can never see the whole Universe, never. Our eyes just cannot grasp the entire detail into focus. It is too large. I think God is this large. We could be living on God but he is just too large to see.
I believe we are still too early in the advancement of the human species to begin to accept what a "God" is, and where our Universe came from. The hearts and minds of men are still like babies in their evolution into intelligence. Make no mistake about it, if we don't kill ourselves, we will advance, and maybe, just maybe, we might come to understand our physical reality and at that moment, will God be revealed to us.
- 08-15-2010, 01:59 AM
08-15-2010, 02:20 AM
I would rep u david- but i cant well said brother!
08-15-2010, 02:59 AM
08-15-2010, 07:15 AM
08-15-2010, 07:18 AM
08-16-2010, 03:08 PM
“Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68
WHAT has science offered?
08-17-2010, 06:10 PM
You know, there is a species of monkeys that get into territory warfare with other groups of monkeys of their own species. When one groups wins by killing all the males, they take all the females and bring them back to their territory. The females are then awarded as sex slaves to the monkey who killed the most males.
We humans have no doubt practiced this throughout history. It seems the more intelligent a species becomes, the more destructive they become also. We are becoming more destructive! Where do you see God's divine intervention that is stopping us from our path to destruction?
08-17-2010, 06:34 PM
08-18-2010, 12:20 AM
Regardless though... we humans are destroying our own humanity one bit at a time... and believe me when I tell you... war is an ugly thing. For me, actually being hunted by the enemy is a feeling I never want to feel again, nor is it one I wish upon anyone... perhaps that is how the believers felt under the reign of Nero????
08-18-2010, 12:36 PM
Ok my brothers, got a few PM's on the quote above asking about what it was like to feel this hunted feeling as well as the Army thing. I felt it was just easier to explain here.
Now by no means is this solo to me. Every day thousands of our nation's finest patrol in harms way every day. However, only hundreds these days do this in a truly hostile environment. The hardest thing to do on my first deployment was getting in that truck and roll out that gate. It was driving that was the most dangerous thing in Iraq. That is where people were getting killed. It is at these times that one has to "Man up" and just do it. We have been trained to put the mission first, and that is what happens everyday there in combat zones. At one time I actually made eye contact with a guy standing off to the side of the road counting the vehicles as they went by. When he reached my truck, he stopped and began pushing a button on his cell phone. It was then we made eye contact and there was a hesitation. He finally recovered and blew the IED, but it was right behind me. It sent shrapnel through my vehicle, a soft skin non armored HUMVEE, but no one was injured. I thanks God over and over that day, because had the 155 round had hit my truck full on it would have killed us all.
When I did get injured my first time in Iraq, I remember laying in pain on a gurney in Balad Iraq just reeling because of the pain. However, no one was over working on me. I grew angry and looked to the other part of the hospital room where everyone was at. It was then I saw the young Marine battling for his life. They were doing everything they could to save him and both his arms. It was then that I changed a second time. It was one of those times when one's pain means nothing, and I had never felt so ashamed. I manned up again and began praying for that kid, no more than 18 years old. I also watched as they rolled his battle buddy with a sheet pulled over his head next to me and park the body right next to mine. Things like that change you and better prepares one for dealing with larger issues in life.
When I went out the 2nd time to Iraq, I was walking up and down the Iranian border almost daily. We had Iranian forts within mortar range, and watched them aim at us time and time again, but there was no fear this time. I had grown and knew that it was not yet my time. That didn't make me reckless, but better made me able to lead those who looked to me to help keep them alive.
I thank God every day that I was able to come home through these hard times alive. For those who do not believe in the existence of God, I must beg to differ. I saw his hand daily.
Working on living
08-18-2010, 01:43 PM
To Elders and Young Men
To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.
And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
08-18-2010, 01:47 PM
Thanks for the words my brother!
Working on living
08-19-2010, 05:30 AM
wisdom in these last few posts spiritual wisdom
08-24-2010, 01:47 AM
I was watching something very interesting yesterday I thought I would share with you guys. It was about God and science's quest to find him. A very new and recently up to date documentary was narrated by Morgan Freemon (great voice).
I'm sure most of you are familiar with wave particle duality? Well, quick thing, it has been proven scientifically that at the quantum level, atoms do not exist as solids but as waves UNLESS, they are observed. So look at a chair, turn your back away from it, and it's been proven that the chair pretty much disappears into waves or energy UNTIL you look at it again. Don't bother debating this. This is WELL established in the scientific community.
Well, what other kinds of reality have this property? ...........
Video games... Simulations.... The SIMS. Their world does not exist until it is observed upon by the controller. The SIMS creator got on the show and said we are living in a giant simulation. That the laws of the universe completely coincide with how they create simulations. Gave me chills.
Well then they got into individuality, and consciousness. We obviously are not being controlled by a "Gamer." However, they then pointed to research that had been done with artificial intelligence... or A.I. They selected a bunch of people to have a conversation with this super A.I, and also have a conversation with a real human being. Surprise surprise, nobody could predict at all which one was the real human and which one the computer. This was showing that our perception of other people being conscious is flawed. And everyone may as well be an A.I. The only real focus point you know exists.... is YOU! You may be the only one playing the game of life. You may be the embodied gamer. You may be the creator. You may be God.
Absolutely amazing documentary.
What do you guys think of this?
08-24-2010, 08:38 AM
certainly interesting to say the least, and I for one am not going to say I understand it totally.
one other thing to add which is back from our original discussion, how many of you have seen Religulous? Please keep the Bill Maher hate to a minimum (I am not a fan either). His documentary is somewhat interesting and relates to our topic
08-24-2010, 09:58 AM
08-24-2010, 11:46 AM
Never saw the Bill Maher piece either... man I have a lot of catching up to do. Agree with YandFree though... I tend to be very cautious about what science says is proven. Look at the 1 thing that we have had years and years of research on. It is tangible, one can touch it, and yet with all the scientific understanding in the world, we still to this day cannot reproduce or even predict it... what is this awesome phenomenon??? the weather...
Great discussion once again CM!
Working on living
08-24-2010, 01:33 PM
A much simpler example of what of chocolatemilk is talking about is sound. Sound can simply be described as an impulse of energy which causes waves to travel at a certain frequency. These waves cause vibrations. If there is no receptor around to convert those vibrations into what we "hear" then there is no "sound" as we know it. The old tree in the forest and nobody around to hear it. If you look at it that way, it makes sense that on an atomic level, atoms exist as energy or waves and until our receptors convert that energy into what we "see" or observe, they only exist as waves of energy.
On a side note, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that we may all be our own god, because using the same logic above, until someone else observes me, or I observe myself, my atoms only exist as those waves of energy.
I may have oversimplified things a bit much.
I've said it once and I'll say it yet again. Science and religion do not have to be mutually exclusive. It is possible for one to exist in the presence of the other. The existence of scientific facts does not rule out the possibility or validity of religion. If God opened up the heavens and spoke to every person on the planet in the next five minutes, that act would not cancel scientific facts. I'll never understand why the most die hard followers of either science or religion cannot accept the truths found in the other.
08-24-2010, 01:40 PM
08-24-2010, 01:43 PM
Man has discovered and explained the power of God at work and has called it science. As a matter of fact science has already validated a good portion of the first statement in Genesis.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
08-24-2010, 01:58 PM
I happen to be a fairly religious person, although I'm sure I have quite a bit of room for improvement. My question or statement to be more accurate is this: I believe that God has set forth certain laws or rules by which all things adhere for the most part. (I know many of the accepted rules break down on the subatomic level such as causality in which it has been proven that the "effect" can come before the "cause") Anyway, the discovery of these rules and laws is science. It is the arrogance of man, I believe, who upon discovery of these laws fails to ask the most important question. That question is not whether or not these laws exist, but who or what created them.
08-24-2010, 01:59 PM
However!!!!! he is not, nor ever has he been referred to as "THE Messiah," the Anointed One (or the Christ to use the Greek). Orthodox Jews still await that coming. Their view of the Messiah is he of the lineage of David who is to rule and reign while simultaneously defeating all the Jews' enemies. THis is what many scholars who are Christian refer to as the Millennial Messiah. He who is set to rule and reign after the SECOND Coming of Jesus.
Also, Jesus was hailed as THE Messiah by the Jews in Jerusalem right up until his death. At that point, they changed it from Messiah to great Rabi, for the true Messiah, in their view, would not be put to death (that is by those who did not convert to Christianity). They do not, as Christians do, recognize the Servant Messiah... he who was to FIRST save the world from their inward enemy and sins (See Isaiah 53 referred to as the 4th Servant Song) and then come again in the fulfillment of the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times as the Conquering Messiah set to vanquish the world from physical enemies.
Working on living
08-24-2010, 02:02 PM
08-24-2010, 04:06 PM
EDIT: Hence my quote "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Science has established that there was a beginning, there there was a creation, but has failed to substantiate evidence to give credit to a Creator...yet.
08-24-2010, 05:01 PM
08-24-2010, 06:59 PM
08-24-2010, 08:50 PM
Just a few months ago a study revealed that our eyes emit a form of energy that literally impacts it's target. It's the reason you can "feel" somebody watching you, even if you can't visually locate them. This makes it easier to understand how observation modulates reality.
The Bible states that ALL things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. That means if you can think it, then it's necessarily a reality option that is lawfully achievable. That doesn't mean man should pursue ALL things though, and that's how we fell out of grace, reaching for advanced knowledge before we were a mature enough species to receive it with the discernment to properly apply it. Now we are basically on time out, for playing in the street when we were told not to. It's for our own safety from a loving but disappointed parent, it's not some stupid pointless punishment. That's where satan exploits a man if that man has no standard of spiritual discernment, he offers powers (money, knowledge) in exchange for worshiping him and pushing his agenda. He took Christ to the top of a hill while Christ was vulnerable, and offered Him the same deal, but Jesus didn't take the bait.
08-24-2010, 11:48 PM
08-25-2010, 01:13 AM
Now change a particle to a chair.... and the same laws apply
You are always observing yourself. It's impossible not to. So YOU will always be there by your own observation. But how do you know about other people? How do you know they don't become waves of energy when you don't observe them (through all your senses). You can never catch them in the act of being waves of energy... yet science has PROVEN they become so. What do you make of this?
I wanted to ask you, why did the fish, in the bottom of the pits of the ocean, begin developing an air bladder millions of years before it set foot on land... as if knowing this was the eventual plan.
Is this God's plan? Did God plan this?
If so, it seems God operates under his own scientific rules. He doesn't seem to break them. He didn't magically put lungs in the fish. He did it through the natural worlds laws.
I feel as though God would not simply appear to human beings in the same sense that he follows the natural worlds laws. Your mind may see him in a dream, it may see him in a hallucination... but I doubt God truly enters our reality. I feel as though the prophetic visions humanity have had were more of a mind's construct then Gods. What do you think?
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