Israeli jets target Gaza tunnels

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    you act and talk like I did when I was 15 years old and got ticked in a video game or something..... And I have no need to justify my intelligence at the age of 22 in comparison to you or your insults. I am quite done with partaking in your lil fun filled world. Be wary, because if you are the same in person as you are on this thread, then I cant see you being a very fulfilled person. Enjoy yourself though, and best of luck to you. Seriously, I have no beef, and even though my one posts says so, I never did neg you. I guess I could care less about lil green bars that mean zip.

    In a place made for learning, all you did was bash and be closed minded.

    And btw according to your last neg and post, you attacked my religious beliefs which makes you a fascists right? Hypocrite?

    As a side note, I actually am a very questioning person. Which is why I use the term test the waters, I am not a fan of Benny Hinn, or Rod Parsely, or any famous preacher actually. I just love doing what I can to help other people. And having a relationship with my God and Savior. At the same time I have studied evolution, biology, chemistry. Other things like Anthropology, ecology. I love psychology, hate philosophy. And am often engaged with gentlemen much older than you in historical debates and discussions. Unlike you think, I have seen plenty, and often look for multiple sources to verify information. I love history. The fact that I know how much time I have put into studies, most of which are actually outside of any schooling, and you would insult it. Is disappointing, but expected from the average American.

    I am done with this thread. It has come to lack too much. Like watching a ping pong game without the ball.
    ....so much ammo in this thread..... but I promised Dr D I'd stop picking on you.

    I'll just leave you to engage with older gentlemen.... for historical debates and discussions of course

    Hope you learnt something!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    What's ironic is that both these countries have already powered past the US economy in terms of real goods. We've essentially sold the cow to buy some milk at a macroeconomic level. Our country living on credit now and when the final bubble, the dollar bubble bursts, our economy will collapse.
    it is slowly bursting, I have an image of the sound of pulling hte end of a balloon as the air eeks out
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    Kind of a segway with the talk of the US dollar bubble about to burst, have you folks seen Zeitgeist? Part 3 of that movie seems to be well on it's way to coming true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    ....so much ammo in this thread..... but I promised Dr D I'd stop picking on you. ...
    Good man! I owe you one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    Kind of a segway with the talk of the US dollar bubble about to burst, have you folks seen Zeitgeist? Part 3 of that movie seems to be well on it's way to coming true.
    If you youtube economy, future, dollar, or any combination of those words, it pulls up some very sobering videos. I wish I knew more about economics so I could interpret the relevant data.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    If you youtube economy, future, dollar, or any combination of those words, it pulls up some very sobering videos. I wish I knew more about economics so I could interpret the relevant data.
    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TjBNjc9Bo"]YouTube - I.O.U.S.A.: Byte-Sized - The 30 Minute Version[/nomedia]

    This is a 30 minute version of I.O.U.S.A.. David Walker, the former US comptroller created it, so its from an extremely reputable source. Basically its predicting an economic collapse if serious steps aren't taken in the opposite direction as we as a country have been moving.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    it is slowly bursting, I have an image of the sound of pulling hte end of a balloon as the air eeks out
    I think there will be a pop sometime in the next 2 years. The DOW will drop to 3k, and the dollar will eventually become 1/10 as valuable. Buy foreign securities, currencies, and commodities now or suffer the consequences later.
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    Rehovot, Rishon may be in rocket range
    By YAAKOV KATZ AND YAAKOV LAPPIN
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    Fearing that Hamas may have missiles with a range over 40 kilometers, the IDF Home Front Command has instructed the Rishon Lezion and Rehovot municipalities to prepare their bomb shelters, The Jerusalem Post has learned.
    Damage to a Beersheba...

    Damage to a Beersheba classroom hit by a Grad rocket on Wednesday morning.
    Photo: AP

    The two cities have a combined population of approximately 333,700.

    Defense officials said Sunday that the air force had destroyed a significant percentage of Hamas's long-range Kassams and Grad-model Katyusha rockets, but that it was likely the group still had "several thousand" left.

    My sister lives in Rechovot, with her two daughters and a bun in the oven. Go IDF!
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    The Three-State Option

    By John R. Bolton
    Monday, January 5, 2009; A11

    War in the Gaza Strip demonstrates yet again that the current governance paradigm for the Palestinian people has failed. Terrorists financed and supplied by Iran control Gaza; the Palestinian Authority is broken, probably irretrievably; and economic development is stalled in Gaza and the West Bank. Palestinians are suffering the consequences of regional power struggles played out through them as surrogates.

    Israel isn't a happy place, either. It endures opprobrium from the world's High-Minded for defending itself from terrorism yet still finds itself subjected to terrorist attacks from Hamas and terrorists based in Syria and Lebanon. Israel's domestic politics are increasingly muddled, and its way forward obscure.

    Neighboring countries also suffer. Egypt has walled off its boundary with Gaza; Lebanon remains under threat of a Hezbollah coup enabled by Iran; Syria slides further under Iranian hegemony; and Jordan is trapped in the general gridlock. Other Arab countries search for solutions, but their attention is increasingly diverted by the growing threat from Iran and the downturn in global oil prices.

    Given this landscape, we should ask why we still advocate the "two-state solution," with Israel and "Palestine" living side by side in peace, as the mantra goes. We are obviously not progressing, and are probably going backward. We continue poring over the Middle East "road map" because that is all we have, faute de mieux, as they say in Foggy Bottom.

    The logic to this position is long past its expiration date. Unfortunately, it is hard to imagine a new approach that the key players would receive enthusiastically. If the way out were obvious, after all, it would already have been suggested. So consider the following, unpopular and difficult to implement though it may be:

    Let's start by recognizing that trying to create a Palestinian Authority from the old PLO has failed and that any two-state solution based on the PA is stillborn. Hamas has killed the idea, and even the Holy Land is good for only one resurrection. Instead, we should look to a "three-state" approach, where Gaza is returned to Egyptian control and the West Bank in some configuration reverts to Jordanian sovereignty. Among many anomalies, today's conflict lies within the boundaries of three states nominally at peace. Having the two Arab states re-extend their prior political authority is an authentic way to extend the zone of peace and, more important, build on governments that are providing peace and stability in their own countries. "International observers" or the like cannot come close to what is necessary; we need real states with real security forces.

    This idea would be decidedly unpopular in Egypt and Jordan, which have long sought to wash their hands of the Palestinian problem. Accordingly, they should not have to reassume this responsibility alone. They should receive financial and political support from the Arab League and the West, as they both have for years from the United States. Israel should accept political and administrative roles by Jordan and Egypt, unless it intends to perform such roles itself (which it manifestly does not).

    Egypt no more wants responsibility for dealing with Hamas than Israel does. Cairo fears that Hamas extremism, and its affinity for the Muslim Brotherhood, will increase the risk of extremism in Egypt. Strong ties exist between Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, and extremism in Egypt is growing, so already the real issue is finding the best way to control the threat simultaneously in Egypt and Gaza. Keeping Gaza politically separate from Egypt may be optically satisfying to some, but doing so simply increases threats to Egyptian stability, the loss of which would be catastrophic for the broader region. Just ask the mullahs in Tehran.

    Without a larger Egyptian role, Gaza will not, and perhaps cannot, achieve the minimal stability necessary for economic development. Moreover, connecting Gaza to a real economy, rather than a fictional "Palestinian economy," is the quickest concrete way to improve the lives of Gaza's ordinary citizens. The West Bank link to Jordan, for now at least, is less urgent; the matter cannot be put aside indefinitely, partly because, ironically, long-term Israeli security concerns there are more complex than in Gaza.

    For Palestinians, admitting the obvious failure of the PA, and the consequences of their selection of Hamas, means accepting reality, however unpleasant. But it is precisely Palestinians who would most benefit from stability. The PA -- weakened, corrupt and discredited -- is not a state by any realistic assessment, nor will it become one accepted by Israel as long as Hamas or terrorism generally remains a major political force among Palestinians.

    Objections to this idea will be manifold, and implementation difficult. One place to avoid problems is dispensing with intricate discussions over the exact legal status of Gaza and the West Bank. These territories contain more legal theories than land. "Retrocession" to Egypt and Jordan may or may not become permanent, but one need not advocate that to get started in the interim.

    The Palestinian and Israeli peoples deserve a little glasnost and perestroika from the outside world. Either we do better, conceptually and operationally, or Iran will be happy to fill the vacuum.

    The writer, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, was U.S. ambassador to the United Nations from August 2005 to December 2006.
    I'm in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    I'm in.
    makes perfect sense to me - this might also build more resistance to Iranian intervention in the area
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    US, Egypt, Jordan, Germany and Israel are working together on Gaza ceasefire package

    DEBKAfile Exclusive Reprot

    January 6, 2009, 2:46 PM (GMT+02:00)
    Israeli mobile artillery in Gaza

    Israeli mobile artillery in Gaza

    DEBKAfile's Washington sources disclose that Washington, Cairo, Amman and Jerusalem are hammering out the lines of a ceasefire deal that will be contingent on the state of combat in the Gaza Strip. Jerusalem accepts the proposition that the ceasefire lines will follow the lines of combat reached in the Gaza Strip in the fighting between Israel and Hamas. Egyptian and Jordanian forces will then enter the Gaza Strip.

    Prime minister Ehud Olmert told visiting European Union ministers Monday, Jan. 5, that diplomacy is in progress to find an "international blanket for damping down the blaze in Gaza." He did not elaborate, but, according to our sources in Washington, he was referring to Egypt as the prime mover in a ceasefire solution – not the US.

    Alongside the overt diplomatic drive for a ceasefire, Washington is quietly moving ahead on a package in conjunction with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt – which is managing the Hamas track – and German chancellor Angela Merkel. Israel will hold the lines established on the day the ceasefire went into effect for a two-three month trial period. Egyptian and Jordanian units will remain in the enclave until a pre-set date. An international mechanism will prevent Hamas from rearming.

    Egyptian intelligence minister Gen. Omar Suleiman outlined this deal for the Hamas delegation, headed by operations chief, Imad Al Alami, which arrived in Cairo Monday night, after finally agreeing to discuss a truce. It was clear to both sides that he was dictating honorable terms for a Hamas capitulation, as Israeli forces entered the third and most dangerous phase of their Gaza offensive, the entry into Gaza's densely built-up areas.

    Tuesday saw heavy Israeli-Hamas street battles in Gaza City after a night of heavy Israeli aerial and naval bombardment. Israel forces engaged Hamas in Khan Younis in the south and hit the southern arms smuggling tunnels of the Philadelphi route and Rafah by air and land.

    Hamas attacked the Israeli troops holding the Netzarim belt cutting Gaza City off from the south at Deir al Balakh.

    This phase of Israel's Operation Cast Lead follows Phase 1, the heavy aerial bombardment of Hamas military and government infrastructure, and Phase 2, the ground, tank and artillery incursion on Jan. 1, which split the 360-sq km Gaza Strip into three segments.

    The outcome of the toughest challenge of the ongoing Phase 3 for flushing out Hamas operatives mingling with urban populations and reducing their rocket-firing capabilities will determine the ceasefire lines for ending the conflict. Meanwhile Hamas was still able to keep up its constant rocket and missile fire by Tuesday afternoon, Jan. 6.

    Our diplomatic sources report that the German chancellor's involvement in the US initiative has left French president Nicolas Sarkozy and his 48-hour humanitarian ceasefire proposal more or less standing. In any case, it was rejected by Israel except for his proposal to open a corridor for wounded Palestinians to leave the Gaza Strip for treatment.

    The next UN Security Council meeting on the Gaza crisis is also likely to break up for a second time without accord on a ceasefire resolution.

    Sarkozy continues his whirlwind Middle East tour in Damascus and Beirut Tuesday.
    Back to two posts ago, here ya go. Sounds awesome! 1) put the Gazan's under someone else's control and away from the Jews they hate so much, 2) take all respect and power from Hamas.

    How so? They're being manhandled right now, suffering quite a large blow with only 1 IDF combat casualty; and if this deal is real, it's pretty much being forced on them through IDF action on one side, and pressure from Egypt on the other; essentially they're being treated with disrespect and told to sit down, shut up, and how it's going to be, like the redheaded IQ challenged stepchildren that they are.

    BOHICA. Sweet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    LINK

    Basically, Hamas started firing rockets in a civilian population and Israel just let hell break loose on EVERYONE!

    I'm not really Pro-Israel, especially after I heard about the USS Liberty a few years back, but you just gotta admire how they don't give a f**k about anyone and if attacked, they attack and kill at least 2 times as more people as the other side and as the lady in the video said "It's justifiable" I'm sure Nancy would say that too....

    Anyone remember the 1983 US Marine Barrack bombings in Lebanon ? where also, French Soldiers were killed?

    The US NEVER launched jets in retaliation of the bombings, but the French, out of all people, conducted air raids on suspected targets and civilians.

    The US can be a P.C. ***** sometimes.

    I am Israeli and i believe in what they are doing!
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    they need to defend themselves, as they for the most part have been patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    they need to defend themselves, as they for the most part have been patient

    yes, they have!
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    Bwaahaaaha, this is awesome! Hamas is showing their true colors (for those apologists who didn't get the memo that Hamas = evil):

    Report: Hamas stealing aid supplies to sell to residents

    Grim picture of Gazans' lives painted by reports emerging from Strip, claiming gunmen hiding in civilian homes, using residents as human shields, and hijacking trucks of humanitarian aid

    Roee Nahmias
    Published: 01.06.09, 22:32 / Israel News

    A government or a gang? As the Israeli operation in Gaza wears on it appears Hamas has relinquished any visage of a socio-political party, abandoning its claim to govern the residents of Gaza in favor of engaging in open war at their expense.


    Case In Point
    IDF: Mortars fired from bombed school / Hanan Greenberg
    While UN spokesman reports at least 30 casualties from attack near UNRWA school in Jabalya, army claims strike targeted terrorists firing mortar shells from structure moments earlier
    Full Story
    A number of reports from the Strip paint a picture of very difficult humanitarian conditions, not least because of Hamas itself. The suspicion is that the group's operatives have seized control of any supplies passing through the crossings – including those sent by Israel and international organizations.


    Reports say Hamas takes a cut out of all aid that arrives, including flour and medicine. Supplies intended to be distributed without gain among the population is seized by the group and sold to the residents, at a profit to the Hamas government.


    One such incident was recorded Monday, when a convoy of trucks carrying supplies through the Kerem Shalom crossing was opened fire upon and seized by Hamas gunmen. Similar incidents occurred with trucks carrying fuel.


    Forced to flee. Residents of Gaza (Photo: AP)


    In other cases, civilians are simply used as cannon fodder or human shields. Reports out of Gaza say residents who attempted to flee their homes in the northern area of the Strip were forced to go back at gunpoint, by Hamas men.


    The organization is presumably interested in increasing civilian casualties in order to give rise to international pressure against Israel. Arab media reported that in an IDF strike on a UN school 30 civilians were killed, but there is no legitimate way to prove gunmen were among those killed as Hamas tends to bury these bodies quickly, thus eliminating evidence in Israel's favor.


    Other civilian complaints state that Hamas gunmen pull children along with them "by the ears" from place to place, fearing that if they don't have a child with them they will be fair game to the IDF. Others hide in civilian homes and stairwells, UNRWA ambulances, and mosques.


    In other reported cases Hamas gunmen hold civilians hostage in alleyways in order to provide themselves with a living barricade to ward off IDF forces. Reports somewhat more difficult to verify say the group's men shot Fatah operatives in the feet to make sure the latter would not attempt a coup.


    No one to turn to

    These reports lead to the assumption that Hamas is attempting to exacerbate the atmosphere of a humanitarian crisis in the Strip, as this may promote an international ceasefire initiative. In any case the reports clearly show that the residents of Gaza have fallen prey to Hamas as well as the IDF.


    Reports of alarming shortages are also forthcoming, as residents appear to lack water, flour, electricity, and any sign of a capable government. Chaos reigns as no one appears to know when electricity will be available, how to obtain water or food, or whom to address in order to evacuate the injured.


    The "emergency numbers" given to residents have ceased to function, and citizens in need of assistance have only international organizations, the Red Crescent, and the hospitals themselves to turn to.


    Advertisement

    The Hamas leaders, aside from two addresses, have not been heard from. Their speeches were broadcast a number of times, but in any case many in the Strip can no longer access televisions, radios, or internet without electricity.


    Despite this, no authoritative anti-Hamas sentiments have been heard from the Gazans. However Palestinian sources claim that grievances against the group are voiced in secret. The animosity towards Israel has not disappeared, say the sources, but it is now accompanied by bitterness towards the organization many are dubbing Iranian in its extremism.
    You morons voted Hamas in, 80% of y'all, and now IT ****ING SUCKS, HUH???

    Lesson learned?

    This is really good; Hamas is being fully delegitimized, both by Israel, world politics, and their behavior toward their own constituents. This will be tough to recover from, for them, especially as things calm down, sink in, and horror stories come out.

    God bless those truly innocent caught in the crossfire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    This will be tough to recover from, for them, especially as things calm down, sink in, and horror stories come out.
    Whose going to put the stories out? I kind of doubt mass media has it in them.
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    i mean it for palestinian consumption only. most weaterners understand hams' role in this; israel needs mustafa from gaza to understand this: hamas is evil, supporters of hamas will suffer andlose legitimacy, and it does not pay to **** with israel. whatever your greivance, choose a different path.

    and i think it's on its way to that goal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    i mean it for palestinian consumption only. most weaterners understand hams' role in this; israel needs mustafa from gaza to understand this: hamas is evil, supporters of hamas will suffer andlose legitimacy, and it does not pay to **** with israel. whatever your greivance, choose a different path.

    and i think it's on its way to that goal.
    Ah ok. I agree, this will show the Palestinians Hama's true colors.
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    Looks like the US could be in the cross-hairs now. Zawahiri is pissed, making threats and blaming Obama for double-crossing al Qaeda. This whole situation is starting to look really ****ed up@!!@!

    http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2009_01_06_archive.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...eda/index.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Looks like the US could be in the cross-hairs now. Zawahiri is pissed, making threats and blaming Obama for double-crossing al Qaeda. This whole situation is starting to look really ****ed up@!!@!

    http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2009_01_06_archive.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...eda/index.html

    not looking so chill!
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    Rockets hit Israel from Lebanon


    At least three rockets have been fired into northern Israel from Lebanon raising fears that the current Israeli offensive in Gaza may spill over.
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    I used to support israel. Now I say **** them.

    If anyone has a clue about Zionism and the US. US has been Israel's little bitch for some time. We give them so much money for no reason and it makes pretty good sense that they do run all our banks.

    So I say ****'em. I wish America was free and the world would open their eyes.

    **** hamas too for being idiots and not pursuing peace in any other way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nopeace View Post
    We give them so much money for no reason and it makes pretty good sense that they do run all our banks.
    If they run all our banks, why do they need our money?
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    my sincere opinion is that Israel wants mass extermination of palestinians. They attacked and kill those innocents children in UN school based on the dictum: it would be better in the future without 43 suicide bombers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nopeace View Post
    I used to support israel. Now I say **** them.

    If anyone has a clue about Zionism and the US. US has been Israel's little bitch for some time. We give them so much money for no reason and it makes pretty good sense that they do run all our banks.

    So I say ****'em. I wish America was free and the world would open their eyes.

    **** hamas too for being idiots and not pursuing peace in any other way.
    You must really hate Iraq (2005 = $6billion in aid) and Egypt (2005=$1.5b), then, and kinda dislike the Sudan (2005 = $1.072 BIL). Hell, you must REALLY LOATH the Palestinians, as that population of 2.5 million received $348,200,000 in 2005 (that's $13mil a head!).

    Go back to your book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolffie View Post
    my sincere opinion is that Israel wants mass extermination of palestinians. They attacked and kill those innocents children in UN school based on the dictum: it would be better in the future without 43 suicide bombers!
    Oh?

    Text size: increase text sizedecrease text size
    Israel shells near UN school, killing at least 30

    The Associated Press
    January 7, 2009

    GAZA CITY, Gaza - Israeli mortar shells exploded yesterday near a UN school in Gaza that was sheltering hundreds of people displaced by Israel's onslaught against Hamas militants, killing at least 30 Palestinians.

    Israel's military said its shelling, the deadliest single episode since Israeli ground forces invaded Gaza on Saturday, was a response to mortar fire from within the school and said militants were using civilians as cover.

    Two residents of the area who spoke by telephone said they saw a small group of militants firing mortar rounds from a street near the school, where 350 people had gathered to get away from the shelling. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.

    Majed Hamdan, an AP photographer, rushed to the scene shortly after the attacks. At the hospital, he said, many children were among the dead.
    Actual video of that actual event:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI&feature=ch annel_page"]YouTube - Mortar Bombs Shot from UN School in Gaza 29 Oct. 2007[/ame]

    Do you really believe that the Palestinian would only have lost 600 in 11 days if Israel really wanted to kill them all? That troops would be on the ground, carefully going from house to house, instead of carpet-bombing the whole place? If that were the case, Israel could finish Gaza in a day flat, with 0 Israeli casualties. ( very much like the US could've done in Iraq, if it weren't for the fact we weren't there to 'kill em all').
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolffie View Post
    my sincere opinion is that Israel wants mass extermination of palestinians. They attacked and kill those innocents children in UN school based on the dictum: it would be better in the future without 43 suicide bombers!
    Honestly, if that we're true, don't you think there would be a lot more dead Palestinians. It is so far beyond a stretch to Israeli tactics in Gaza "Ethnic Cleansing". That's ludicrous.
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    UN suspends aid deliveries to Gaza after truck driver killed
    By AP, ELANA KIRSH AND JPOST.COM STAFF


    Meanwhile, the United Nations on Thursday announced that it was halting all aid deliveries to the Strip, citing a series of Israeli attacks on UN staff and installations.


    "The UN is suspending its aid operations in Gaza until we can get safety and security guarantees for our staff," spokesman Chris Gunness said. "We've been coordinating with them [Israeli forces] and yet our staff continue to be hit and killed."

    The UN provides food aid to around 750,000 Gaza residents and runs dozens of schools and clinics throughout the territory. They have some 9,000 locally employed staffers inside Gaza, and a small team of international staffers who work there.

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
    The IDF does not want to engage Hamas in the Urban area to fight them man-to-man, because that will result in HUGE Israeli losses, instead they have chosen for a new tactic. They bomb the UN trucks that bring food to the people of Gaza, so they will starve to death.

    No propaganda, no lies, these are the facts.


    What a bunch of criminals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imeniaan View Post
    The IDF does not want to engage Hamas in the Urban area to fight them man-to-man, because that will result in HUGE Israeli losses, instead they have chosen for a new tactic. They bomb the UN trucks that bring food to the people of Gaza, so they will starve to death.

    No propaganda, no lies, these are the facts.
    What you're saying could very well be a fallacy and pure propaganda. You're interpreting events based upon witness statements, that's never a fact.

    The fact is that UN trucks got attacked and the driver was killed. That's the only verifiable fact. Try reading the story before you post it.

    According foreign correspondents, the IDF attacked the truck.

    According to a medic in the truck itself, it had come under Hamas sniper fire.

    Your assertion brazenly ignore the FACT that Hamas has commandeered Humanitarian Aid packages and sold them to Palestinian civilians.

    You assertion brazenly ignore the FACT that Israel has helped engineer humanitarian escort teams for the UN.

    What a bunch of criminals.
    How can you call defending your country a crime? Moron.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    What you're saying could very well be a fallacy and pure propaganda. You're interpreting events based upon witness statements, that's never a fact.

    The fact is that UN trucks got attacked and the driver was killed. That's the only verifiable fact. Try reading the story before you post it.

    According foreign correspondents, the IDF attacked the truck.

    According to a medic in the truck itself, it had come under Hamas sniper fire.

    Your assertion brazenly ignore the FACT that Hamas has commandeered Humanitarian Aid packages and sold them to Palestinian civilians.

    You assertion brazenly ignore the FACT that Israel has helped engineer humanitarian escort teams for the UN.



    How can you call defending your country a crime? Moron.

    In 1967 and 1973 they were defending their country, but now they are bombing innocent civilians on a large scale. That's not defending your country, they are committing war crimes, they are bloodthirsty and they have no regard for the life of a non-jew whatsoever. But keep watching Fox News Channel, because you're clearly an expert on this matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imeniaan View Post
    In 1967 and 1973 they were defending their country, but now they are bombing innocent civilians on a large scale. That's not defending your country, they are committing war crimes, they are bloodthirsty and they have no regard for the life of a non-jew whatsoever. But keep watching Fox News Channel, because you're clearly an expert on this matter.
    Cite your sources on "bombing innocent civilians on a large scale". Good luck.

    Clearly you're not an expert. Apparently you missed the report that Hamas was firing rockets at Israeli primary schools and residences. Hamas was stealing foreign aide coming in for the Palestinians. Hamas was using residences, schools and hospitals and human shields. Oh, and maybe you didn't hear, when Palestinian citizens dissent against Hamas, they're killed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imeniaan View Post
    In 1967 and 1973 they were defending their country, but now they are bombing innocent civilians on a large scale. That's not defending your country, they are committing war crimes, they are bloodthirsty and they have no regard for the life of a non-jew whatsoever. But keep watching Fox News Channel, because you're clearly an expert on this matter.
    What's this?

    Leaflets dropped by Israeli planes are seen falling above the northern Gaza Strip as seen from the Israel side of the border with Gaza, Saturday, Jan. 3, 2009. (AP Photo/Tara Todras-Whitehill) #


    Scenes from the Gaza Strip - The Big Picture - Boston.com

    Israel sent THOUSANDS of text messages to the residents of Gaza, broadcast on the Palestinian radio and TV, and told them where to go, what to avoid, and how to avoid fire. Why?

    Because they want to kill them all. Right.

    Meanwhile:

    Report: Hamas stealing aid supplies to sell to residents

    Grim picture of Gazans' lives painted by reports emerging from Strip, claiming gunmen hiding in civilian homes, using residents as human shields, and hijacking trucks of humanitarian aid

    Roee Nahmias
    Published: 01.06.09, 22:32 / Israel News

    A government or a gang? As the Israeli operation in Gaza wears on it appears Hamas has relinquished any visage of a socio-political party, abandoning its claim to govern the residents of Gaza in favor of engaging in open war at their expense.


    Case In Point
    IDF: Mortars fired from bombed school / Hanan Greenberg
    While UN spokesman reports at least 30 casualties from attack near UNRWA school in Jabalya, army claims strike targeted terrorists firing mortar shells from structure moments earlier
    Full Story
    A number of reports from the Strip paint a picture of very difficult humanitarian conditions, not least because of Hamas itself. The suspicion is that the group's operatives have seized control of any supplies passing through the crossings – including those sent by Israel and international organizations.


    Reports say Hamas takes a cut out of all aid that arrives, including flour and medicine. Supplies intended to be distributed without gain among the population is seized by the group and sold to the residents, at a profit to the Hamas government.


    One such incident was recorded Monday, when a convoy of trucks carrying supplies through the Kerem Shalom crossing was opened fire upon and seized by Hamas gunmen. Similar incidents occurred with trucks carrying fuel.


    Forced to flee. Residents of Gaza (Photo: AP)


    In other cases, civilians are simply used as cannon fodder or human shields. Reports out of Gaza say residents who attempted to flee their homes in the northern area of the Strip were forced to go back at gunpoint, by Hamas men.


    The organization is presumably interested in increasing civilian casualties in order to give rise to international pressure against Israel. Arab media reported that in an IDF strike on a UN school 30 civilians were killed, but there is no legitimate way to prove gunmen were among those killed as Hamas tends to bury these bodies quickly, thus eliminating evidence in Israel's favor.


    Other civilian complaints state that Hamas gunmen pull children along with them "by the ears" from place to place, fearing that if they don't have a child with them they will be fair game to the IDF. Others hide in civilian homes and stairwells, UNRWA ambulances, and mosques.


    In other reported cases Hamas gunmen hold civilians hostage in alleyways in order to provide themselves with a living barricade to ward off IDF forces. Reports somewhat more difficult to verify say the group's men shot Fatah operatives in the feet to make sure the latter would not attempt a coup.


    No one to turn to

    These reports lead to the assumption that Hamas is attempting to exacerbate the atmosphere of a humanitarian crisis in the Strip, as this may promote an international ceasefire initiative. In any case the reports clearly show that the residents of Gaza have fallen prey to Hamas as well as the IDF.


    Reports of alarming shortages are also forthcoming, as residents appear to lack water, flour, electricity, and any sign of a capable government. Chaos reigns as no one appears to know when electricity will be available, how to obtain water or food, or whom to address in order to evacuate the injured.


    The "emergency numbers" given to residents have ceased to function, and citizens in need of assistance have only international organizations, the Red Crescent, and the hospitals themselves to turn to.


    Advertisement

    The Hamas leaders, aside from two addresses, have not been heard from. Their speeches were broadcast a number of times, but in any case many in the Strip can no longer access televisions, radios, or internet without electricity.


    Despite this, no authoritative anti-Hamas sentiments have been heard from the Gazans. However Palestinian sources claim that grievances against the group are voiced in secret. The animosity towards Israel has not disappeared, say the sources, but it is now accompanied by bitterness towards the organization many are dubbing Iranian in its extremism.
    Gaza: Hamas gunmen hide in hospitals

    Shin Bet chief briefs cabinet on day five of Gaza offensive, says terror operatives hide in hospitals, mosques. IDF: Hamas increases use of densely populated areas for launching pads

    Roni Sofer
    Published: 12.31.08, 12:48 / Israel News

    Shin Bet Chief Yuval Diskin briefed the cabinet Wednesday on the progress of Operation Cast Lead.


    According to Diskin, "Hamas has been attacked like never before. It has suffered significant damages and its rule over Gaza has been compromised."


    Diskin also noted that large numbers of Hamas operatives are hiding in hospitals and that some are posing as medical staff. "Some are also hiding in mosques and some of those have been turned into headquarters, since they assumed Israel won't attack them there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imeniaan View Post
    In 1967 and 1973 they were defending their country, but now they are bombing innocent civilians on a large scale. That's not defending your country, they are committing war crimes, they are bloodthirsty and they have no regard for the life of a non-jew whatsoever. But keep watching Fox News Channel, because you're clearly an expert on this matter.
    you really need to reevaluate the situation. There is a history here on both sides of violence and aggression no doubt. However, look at the most recent agreements made, and tell me where the fault lies?

    At the end of the day, Hamas has made no sevret of its intentions. I assume that if someone said they wanted to rid the world of you and your family and had been shown to be aggressive, you would let it slide right?
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    GAZA CITY — The emergency room in Shifa Hospital is often a place of gore and despair. On Thursday, it was also a lesson in the way ordinary people are squeezed between suicidal fighters and a military behemoth.

    Dr. Awni al-Jaru, 37, a surgeon at the hospital, rushed in from his home here, dressed in his scrubs. But he came not to work. His head was bleeding, and his daughter’s jaw was broken.

    He said Hamas militants next to his apartment building had fired mortar and rocket rounds. Israel fired back with force, and his apartment was hit. His wife, Albina, originally from Ukraine, and his 1-year-old son were killed.

    “My son has been turned into pieces,” he cried. “My wife was cut in half. I had to leave her body at home.” Because Albina was a foreigner, she could have left Gaza with her children. But, Dr. Jaru lamented, she would not leave him behind.

    A car arrived with more patients. One was a 21-year-old man with shrapnel in his left leg who demanded quick treatment. He turned out to be a militant with Islamic Jihad. He was smiling a big smile.

    “Hurry, I must get back so I can keep fighting,” he told the doctors.

    He was told that there were more serious cases than his, that he needed to wait. But he insisted. “We are fighting the Israelis,” he said. “When we fire we run, but they hit back so fast. We run into the houses to get away.” He continued smiling.

    “Why are you so happy?” this reporter asked. “Look around you.”

    A girl who looked about 18 screamed as a surgeon removed shrapnel from her leg. An elderly man was soaked in blood. A baby a few weeks old and slightly wounded looked around helplessly. A man lay with parts of his brain coming out. His family wailed at his side.

    “Don’t you see that these people are hurting?” the militant was asked.

    “But I am from the people, too,” he said, his smile incandescent. “They lost their loved ones as martyrs. They should be happy. I want to be a martyr, too.”

    Alah hu akhbar, *******. That's Hamas in a nutshell. From the NY Times, BTW.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/wo...r.html?_r=2&hp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    you really need to reevaluate the situation. There is a history here on both sides of violence and aggression no doubt. However, look at the most recent agreements made, and tell me where the fault lies?

    At the end of the day, Hamas has made no sevret of its intentions. I assume that if someone said they wanted to rid the world of you and your family and had been shown to be aggressive, you would let it slide right?

    Hamas was formed in 1987 as a direct product of Israeli occupation. I am no fan of Hamas and the people of Gaza are no fan of Hamas either, but they still support Hamas, because Israel is killing Palestinian women, children en men who have no ties whatsoever with Hamas.

    But I am glad your new President is willing to talk to Hamas and hopefully he will end the Barbaric, bloodthirsty behaviour of the Israeli's towards poor, innocent Palestinians.

    God Bless America!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imeniaan View Post
    Hamas was formed in 1987 as a direct product of Israeli occupation. I am no fan of Hamas and the people of Gaza are no fan of Hamas either, but they still support Hamas, because Israel is killing Palestinian women, children en men who have no ties whatsoever with Hamas.

    But I am glad your new President is willing to talk to Hamas and hopefully he will end the Barbaric, bloodthirsty behaviour of the Israeli's towards poor, innocent Palestinians.

    God Bless America!
    oh I see, generations of men, women and children from ISrael being killed, but evidently it is Hamas as the victims?

    I see what your logic is....bravo
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    Alah hu akhbar, *******. That's Hamas in a nutshell. From the NY Times, BTW.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/wo...r.html?_r=2&hp
    ..that's just fucking sickening.

    after reading reports like that one would nearly wish Israel would bomb Hamas back to the stone age...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imeniaan View Post
    Hamas was formed in 1987 as a direct product of Israeli occupation. I am no fan of Hamas and the people of Gaza are no fan of Hamas either, but they still support Hamas, because Israel is killing Palestinian women, children en men who have no ties whatsoever with Hamas.

    But I am glad your new President is willing to talk to Hamas and hopefully he will end the Barbaric, bloodthirsty behaviour of the Israeli's towards poor, innocent Palestinians.

    God Bless America!
    I sure Iran, who helped create and funds Hamas has the best interest of the Palestinian people at heart.

    Like I said before, Palestinians support Hamas, because if they don't Hamas kills them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imeniaan View Post
    Hamas was formed in 1987 as a direct product of Israeli occupation. I am no fan of Hamas and the people of Gaza are no fan of Hamas either, but they still support Hamas, because Israel is killing Palestinian women, children en men who have no ties whatsoever with Hamas.

    But I am glad your new President is willing to talk to Hamas and hopefully he will end the Barbaric, bloodthirsty behaviour of the Israeli's towards poor, innocent Palestinians.

    God Bless America!
    I have a few Israeli friends who would really love to punch you're fkn face in right now Imeniaan...

    ...just so you know mate
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    I sure Iran, who helped create and funds Hamas has the best interest of the Palestinian people at heart.

    Like I said before, Palestinians support Hamas, because if they don't Hamas kills them.
    bingo... someone hand Rob a big fkn Cuban cigar... or at least rep him

    ...and it wasn't so different in Iraq not so long ago, as it is in Iran at the present time

    ...get the picture Imeniaan, yet???
  

  
 

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