Guns for Texas School Teachers.
- 08-16-2008, 09:00 AM
Guns for Texas School Teachers.
BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Guns for Texas school's teachers
"Teachers in one part of the US state of Texas are to be allowed to carry concealed firearms when the new school term opens this month."
What are peoples opinions on this?
Would you want you son/daughter sitting in a class with a gun just a few feet away?
Are more guns the solution?
"If something were to happen here, I'd much rather be calling a parent to tell them that their child is OK because we were able to protect them," Mr Thweatt said.
This seems like a very odd thing to say, it's a great bit of misdirection. "their child is OK because we were able to protect them" or "their child is OK because we were able to kill the other kid"
Anyway, i'm British, so havent touched a gun in my life (except a paintball gun ) and dont really have any urge to do so but, from my point of view it just seems incredible that somewhere someone has thought. "Ok kids are bringing guns into school, right well lets make it so there are already guns in the school."
Teachers arent perfect, how many shootings have been made possible cause the kid got into their parents gun lock-box? replace the word 'parents' with 'teachers'....
- 08-16-2008, 01:49 PM
The Israeli's have been doing it for years, next time someone decides to bring a gun to school and decides to kill one of my younger cousins( I have no kids), the teacher can ****ing blow their brains out!!
I'm a CWP (concealed weapons permit for weapons/firearms) in Florida, I carry a .357mag snubbie and 9mm full size, in the last year I've pulled the gun out twice in someone's face, one time the guy had a .380 in his and was trying to rob someone, I almost blew his ****ing brains out, guess what? because I had a gun, everyone got out alive, I took his gun, cuffed him and had the sherriffs pick him up, I got to go home that night!
Second time I was walking in a store, a guy with a knife was about to rob the guy behind the counter, I pulled out the gun at him, he ran and guess what? me and the guy got to go home that night!
To me guns are tools, just like a knife, a hammer, a screwdriver, a spoon, car, etc......
I've never had any accidents with them, I've been extremely angry with people almost getting in a fist fight and I didn't even think for once about my gun, if I'm not trying to eat soup, I'm not gonna think about using a spoon, if my life or someone's life is not in immediate danger or great bodily harm, I'm not gonna think about using a gun.
Not to mention that it's a great tool, it saved many lives, statistics establish that 650,000 t0 1,000,000 people use firearms in legal self defense every year, armed citizens involved in stopping crime to a much higher degree than others, simply because we're armed, in fact, armed citizens legally kill 2-7 times the number of criminals killed by law enforcement officers, a year, they also adminster legal but non-fatal wounds to criminals in number of 8,700 to 16,600 a year.
Professer Gary Kleck, American Rifleman, Armed citizens and crime control, Florida firearms law, use and ownership.
I'd rather have my gun because I know I'll need it again, than need it and not have it......
And those anti-gunner politicians, I hold them personally responsible for not allowing law abiding citizens a chance to defend themselves, while only allowing criminals to carry guns, because no matter how many laws you pass, criminals don't give a **** about them!!!
It's funny how they pass "harsher" laws and expect law breakers to follow them all of a sudden DOH! only law abiding citizens will, which will results in them being disarmed and criminals being armed.
And to prove my point, the guy with the .380 who was committing the robbery, was a convicted felon, I'm sure he knew what the gun laws were....
- 08-17-2008, 01:12 PM
08-17-2008, 01:28 PM
No it doesn't. They're carrying because they are scared and nothing is more dangerous than a scared person with a lethal weapon. Most people who own weapons, from my experience, as personal defense tools can not shoot to save their own life, much less someone else's.
Cops, who are trained more than the average citizen, have a less than 30% hit ratio when in a gun fight. I barely trust teachers to be left alone with my kids, much less protect them from lunatics. <--tongue in cheek
You want to protect your children? Make the funds available to staff trained law enforcement to stay at the school and add metal detectors. Arming teachers sounds like a 'feel good' move that doesn't cost extra money... yet. Make the schools safer for teachers to be able to do what they are trained to do; teach!
08-17-2008, 01:32 PM
Not to sound like an ass but you carry a weapon AND handcuffs? lol and you eat raw meat... Guess I should of expected it :PI'm a CWP (concealed weapons permit for weapons/firearms) in Florida, I carry a .357mag snubbie and 9mm full size, in the last year I've pulled the gun out twice in someone's face, one time the guy had a .380 in his and was trying to rob someone, I almost blew his ****ing brains out, guess what? because I had a gun, everyone got out alive, I took his gun, cuffed him and had the sherriffs pick him up, I got to go home that night!
08-17-2008, 04:21 PM
Here's my reasoning:
I've pulled out a gun and pointed it at someone more than once, but in all the instances, my life or someone else's life was in danger, so here's how I see it, I'm either going to have to shoot and kill them if they continue to pose a threat or if they don't pose a threat anymore and back down, I'm not letting them get away and do it to someone else, so I detain them, hence the handcuffs and extra zip ties I carry, if I don't have em what am I supposed to do? keep the gun in their face? ask em to join me for tea while the cruisers arrive?
It's always funny to watch the officer's faces when they come in, criminals ready, cuffed and good to go!
I carry everything I have out of necessity and at one point or another I've used everything I carried and was never short on anything I needed, I understand where you're coming from because alot of those dumb ****s with CWPs think it's a license to kill, threaten someone with your gun or get a stupid CWP badge and flash it as a cop and you probably dealt with some of them, hell, Ive seen my share of em.
I don't ever pay attention to the small ****, open container, pot smokers, etc.... stuff with no victims, but the violent crimes I always do and I hate people using 911 as a crutch, if you can handle something yourself do it, but also call 911, there are about 800,000 Police officers for 300,000 million Americans, some of us actually DO SOMETHING instead of sitting there and watching till the cops arrive.
Plus, the handcuffs are good for the bedroom too....and surprise sex in back alleys!!! did I say that out loud??
I just ate some raw ground beef for breakfast, tuna and raw meat for 3 weeks, FTW!
08-17-2008, 04:37 PM
08-17-2008, 04:41 PM
08-17-2008, 04:47 PM
08-17-2008, 04:48 PM
there should be a sniper in every classroom
08-17-2008, 04:54 PM
Come on now that's just rediculous!
They would have to be at a greater distance!
08-17-2008, 05:04 PM
08-17-2008, 05:10 PM
Well in my day, :P every teacher was able to get you in the head from a good 50yards with a board rubber
Am i the only person that has this mental picture of Omen sitting in his basement surrounded by racks of guns, police and army memorabilia listening to a police radio. "armed assault, and only 2 blocks away, lets get it on!"
(not meaning to be insulting, just joking around)
08-17-2008, 05:14 PM
Nah, you forgot surrounded by blood soaked ground up beef wrappers and antler parts :P
08-17-2008, 05:42 PM
Let me say this, as a teacher, I cannot imagine needing a gun in my classroom. The thought is actually laughable to me for some reason. Granted, my school has never had anything more than some threats written on the walls, but to allow teachers, who might be scared to begin with? it is a recipe for disaster
Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
adam @ ControlledLabs.com
CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
08-17-2008, 09:18 PM
I think if they go through an NRA approved CCW class and pass it (especially the shooting portion) and are mentally sound (there goes half the teachers right there) then I support it completely.
I heard about this on the radio the other day, and there is a lot of stuff they are going to have to go through to be able to carry. Stress tests of some sort, personality tests, and some other stuff that I cant remember. I really think they are covering their bases well on this.
As soon as you create a "gun free zone" what you have really done is created a "target rich environment" for the first SOB who comes in with a gun. I have great respect for the LEO's out there, but you guys cant be everywhere. If it takes you 20 minutes to get to a school (and here in WV that can happen... some are really out in the sticks) the bad guy can be done killing and out the door before any help arrives.
08-17-2008, 09:43 PM
I just think there's a lot more to carrying a gun in self defense of yourself and loved ones(home) and one that adds another stress to an already stressed environment. The money is better spent filling schools with properly trained and accountable personnel. Teachers should not have to be placed in that situation and I feel shouldn't want to be in that situation.
08-17-2008, 10:52 PM
I think its a sad fate, but a great idea. And yes if they are calling to say your kid is ok because I killed the other kid first its fine. should some one decide to bring a weapon to school then there should be no issue taking the threat out.
Now with the "are more guns the solution" argument. Only the GOOD GUYS follow the rules, thats why the good guys LOSE!!!! gun laws only protect criminals. People overvalue life, and in turn give power to criminals because they are afraid of an "accidental shooting" or whatnot. If there is lets say 2 accidental shootings during a school year because of laws like this giving teachers guns. But 5 cases where the teaching shot and killed armed students who were intent on harming others, you must understand that this falls under the concept of "acceptable losses". For every war that is fought, the sad thing is that innocents will pay a price.
Today Americans are such pansies that they wont fight the battle because they dont want the casualties of war, so we let the enemy tear us apart....simple as that.
Give the teacher a gun. AND give them a right to shoot it. I guarantee you if a black kid draws a gun in school and a white teacher shoots him it will become a racist thing and suites will happen. Its how our corrupted,broken, and failing system works.
08-17-2008, 11:33 PM
I still don't know how people think that people become excellent shooters just because they've gone to a gun safety course. To have the skill set to win a gunfight, you have to have training. You're required to get more training to learn to drive a car than to fire a gun and theyare both just as deadly. You also drive the car on a daily base in most cases. Most gun owners who are not enthusiasts, do not fire enough to have a proper skills to be in a gun fight and not have the risks outweigh the benefits.
Most teachers i've know over the years wouldn't have enough time to be properly trained to a high enough degree to do anything but possibly cause more problems.
08-18-2008, 12:09 AM
Well, as a former teacher I'd hate to have to work with a gun since my job was to teach and coach. There was an instance where a parent wanted to fight me because he said I didn't play his All-American kid Luckily he didn't take this threat to the next level but there are instances where teachers need protection. A teacher at a school I worked at got jumped by 3 students. Our principal was also spat on the face by a parent after he rightfully expelled his kid.
Teachers get driven out of the field by all this bullcrap so it would be nice to have a safety system where there are more armed guards. I left due to all the negativity and BS that I had to deal with even though I would go far beyond my requirements to do a good job but that seems to be getting ignored in the public school system.
08-18-2008, 12:17 AM
Exactly mypoint... The education is borked enough as it is and there vcould be much better ways to fixing it than adding weapons...
PLUS, kids will know these teachers have guns. What's to stop three kids jumping and taking the weapon from the teacher? Not to mention, nutjobs going to schools will now know teachers are packing which puts their lives in even more danger.
The whole thing doesn't make sense to me.
08-18-2008, 03:37 AM
Wow! The impression I am getting from this thread (especially the points highlighted by Zero V and Iron Warrior) is that there are some SERIOUS social problems in the US, unlike anything here in the UK.
To use some examples from replies on this thread:
"If there is lets say 2 accidental shootings during a school year because of laws like this giving teachers guns. But 5 cases where the teaching shot and killed armed students who were intent on harming others, you must understand that this falls under the concept of "acceptable losses" "
This would suggest that school shootings have become an accepted part of the academic year, that they are inevitable, rather than (as they would be here in the UK) cause some massive changes in law. ie The Dunblane Massacre
"There was an instance where a parent wanted to fight me because he said I didn't play his All-American kid Luckily he didn't take this threat to the next level but there are instances where teachers need protection. A teacher at a school I worked at got jumped by 3 students. Our principal was also spat on the face by a parent after he rightfully expelled his kid."
Sounds like you work at some sort of juvenile prison facility rather than a school. I can see the parent spitting happening here, promptly followed by police involvement and an assault charge.
It seems, from an outsiders perspective, that guns in the US have become, as already mentioned, a "great tool". That people think they can use them to solve all their problems and grievances. How would having a concealed weapon have helped in ANY of these three circumstances without creating more problems. ie:
Teacher at school gets 'jumped'; there wouldn't be time to get his weapon and even if he did have time i doubt he'd shoot a kid, so the gun isn't used and instead either goes off during the fight or the kids find it, and run off with it and now you have an armed kid on the loose.
08-18-2008, 06:04 AM
...still Sounds Like A Good Idea
08-18-2008, 06:11 AM
Truffle arguing with an Americans about guns is a lost cause. They are completely gungho about them. Lots of people own one for protection which is fine but teachers having a gun is such a stupid idea. It would result in more deaths and more injuries and bascially more crime. This is one case where guns will only make things worse. If your kids go to a school where the teacher carries a gun, put your kid in a different school cos the current one is sh*t.
Unfortunately for the UK and OZ the weapon of choice is a knife which recently seems to cause A LOT of deaths especially in London and the victim is rarely over the age of 15.
08-18-2008, 06:51 AM
Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
adam @ ControlledLabs.com
CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
08-18-2008, 07:36 AM
Makes sense to me. Take all the guns away, and knives are going to become the weapon of choice.Unfortunately for the UK and OZ the weapon of choice is a knife which recently seems to cause A LOT of deaths especially in London and the victim is rarely over the age of 15.
I'm not against putting a couple of Cops in each school, but do you have any idea how much that would cost?? It would be simply cost prohibitive to do. And my taxes are quite high enough as things are now. In the county I live in, they would have to at least double the size of the police force. And since many schools are out of city limits, the Sheriff dept. would double in size. There just isn't the money for that.
08-18-2008, 07:52 AM
21 Jump Street, *****es.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
BPS - Where Body meets Performance
Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
08-18-2008, 08:12 AM
I like it just for the deterrent factor.
At Columbine, Virginia Tech, and that Amish school incident, one teacher/professor with a gun could've saved many lives.
They're not mandating teachers to carry guns, they're just saying if the teacher has a concealed carry permit, they can carry at school.
08-18-2008, 08:30 AM
08-18-2008, 08:35 AM
No, not every teacher is supposed to get a gun. It is totally voluntary. Just like each passenger plane doesn't have an air marshall on it. Just the fact that there might be is a big deterrent.
08-18-2008, 08:40 AM
08-18-2008, 08:43 AM
08-18-2008, 08:44 AM
08-18-2008, 08:44 AM
Considering they had over 20 bomb threats at his school last year, yes I would. PROVIDED they had gone through the proper training. NRA approved course, and range qualified, and were of "sound mind". I'll see if I can find what all Texas is going to require, it was an impressive list of qualifications teachers would have to meet before they could carry.
08-18-2008, 08:46 AM
^^well thats good to hear. I'd say only a small select few would want to have a gun on them anyway.
08-18-2008, 08:49 AM
Ok, the list isn't as long as I thought, but just to get a concealed permit requires the NRA training and range qualification.In order for teachers and staff to carry a pistol, they must have a Texas license to carry a concealed handgun; must be authorized to carry by the district; must receive training in crisis management and hostile situations and must use ammunition that is designed to minimize the risk of ricochet in school halls
Here's the rest of the story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html
08-18-2008, 08:54 AM
out of curiosity are the bombs threats made by students or just random headcases?
08-18-2008, 08:57 AM
Most went unsolved, but students were suspected in most cases. Threats written on the bathroom walls, etc. Very few were called in by phone because each call can be traced.
08-18-2008, 09:23 AM
We could just throw all the problematic kids into "special schools" and leave the ones who want to learn in the normal ones. I wish disrespect was dealt with the way it used to be. If a student disrespected a teacher he had the holy crap whooped out of him.... I say do that again.....the issue is respect. Many students especially in inner city schools, and I wont bring up races, but we know the logistics here, have zero respect for authority. If that disrespect was dealt with old school....there wouldn't be school shootings. Some of these people, and even adults just need the crap beat out of em about 30 or 40 times to set them straight. Respect in america???? you will only find it in church, at a funeral, and in the military...
08-18-2008, 10:13 AM
The parents are to blame for a lot of this. No authority in the home. I only hope that when i become a father i can keep my kids out of trouble......to an extent.
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