Hate on it if you want but forma-stanzol works for pct!!!
- 01-12-2011, 12:21 PM
Hate on it if you want but forma-stanzol works for pct!!!
We have all heard the rumors, that forma can be used as a stand alone pct but everyone was afraid to try it alone.
Well, one person was brave enough and that person was me.
You can also check my thread in the cycle info where it logged the gains I made and I even stated there that I was going to run FORMA as a stand alone and everyone said I was crazy that I needed nolva or clomid and I had some on hand but never once touched it.
Now I you can hate on this and say whatever you want, but I am getting nothing out of of making this review (Although it would be awesome if I did lol), this is all my doing on my own and this is my review of Forma as a stand-alone pct. Now I did use erase for the first week off, and I took zmk for 2 weeks but that was the extent of my pct.
My cycle consisted of Epi strong, Katanadrol, Microdrol, Forma, Gear, Need2slin and N2guard
I ran my cycle like this
0-1 Epi 2 pills
2-4 Epi 3 pills
4-6 Epi 4 pills
0-3 Kat 5 pills
3-6 Kat 6 pills
4-6 Microdrol (bradley asguard) 2cc a day
Forma on cycle 6 pumps a day twice a day
Forma PCT 10 pumps twice a day (directly on nips/chest)
N2guard as directed
Need2 slin as direct
Now as you can tell that was a pretty serious cycle, its not like I was poppin pez.
Well I ran my pct for a total of 6 weeks with the Forma, but at the end of week 4 I had my blood work done and my results came back as perfect. I was within tolerances of everything. My LDL was a little high but that has to do with my diet.
During my pct my libido was through the roof, I never had the drop off and after week 6 of pct when I stopped using the forma I started back on the zmk and I have had no libido issues except for the days when the woman was the cause with her crazy attitude which you all know very well.
So people can hate all they want and say I am lying or whatever they want but Forma works, you can clear your closet of the nolva and clomid and make something that you can obtain from a legit source while you still can and protect yourself.
On cycle I gained about 15lbs and I have kept on 12lbs of it and I am about 10 weeks out right now here is where I finished, and the blood work papers just to show everyone.
And the Blood work
- 01-12-2011, 01:19 PM
Interesting indy. Did you feel like crap at all during pct? I know the goal is to bring everything back as quickly as possible...my current pct is torem 90/60/45/30+tcf-1+endomax+toco8+forma 10/8/6/4 (probably a bit much but had some products I needed to use up) and have felt great. Keeping 12 of 15 looks great with just 1 item in pct.
Did you happen to get baseline numbers before your cycle?
- 01-12-2011, 01:58 PM
01-12-2011, 02:07 PM
That's awesome bro... so did you get that bloodwork at week 4 mark in PCT when you were using only the Forma-stanzol?
And did you get estradiol levels checked?
And sick Tat...
01-12-2011, 02:15 PM
how come on the second page of your bloods it says :
...u don't look like no african american to me.
01-12-2011, 03:51 PM
Little phuck ups happen all the time when filling sheet out.
I did some before Transdermal Dermacrine ( found only at nutraplanet now!!!)
and two weeks during Transdermal dermacrine test ( results are great BTW raised test by double, raised DHEA by triple, and lowered estrogen)
But anyway you will notice down at the bottom it says I took oral dhea too. FOr the life of me I got no damn clue why that is there. I was only taking dermacrine but some how I messed something up lol
01-12-2011, 03:53 PM
Where's the free testosterone and E2? Total test means almost nothing. Not to mention that looks low, though I do understand you're in the middle of PCT when you got the bloodwork so no one expects a full recovery. Do you have a scan of your levels before you got the post-cycle bloodwork done?
I'm not "hating" on you, just saying... this bloodwork is incomplete. Not to mention estradiol would be off anyway because you were on week 4 of PCT (out of 6) and still on forma. That would artificially keep the estrogen low anyway.
Either way, without free test, this isn't telling us anything.
Edit: I looked through your other threads and just wanted to say you've made some great progress my man. Looking great. I don't mean to call you out.
01-12-2011, 03:54 PM
also it looks to me like you were also using need2slin during pct. IMO forma-stanzol can be effectively used as the base/ foundation of any pct much like a serm+S.A.I would be. But It is always best to add in a little extra . Need2slin is great for nutrition retention, Hcgenerate is a great add, unleashed+postcycle combo works well, phytoserm-347 from nutraplanet.com is bad a$$ and even some forged steal from nutra cant hurt. Not saying use them all but try some combos and see what works best for you.
01-12-2011, 04:21 PM
Just want to post up what we're looking at with free test vs. total test, for anyone who wanders up in this thread
Total Test:Free Testosterone. Free testosterone blood levels should be at the high-normal of the reference range. We define high-normal range as the upper one third of the reference range. Under no circumstances should free or total testosterone be above the high end of the normal range.
What too often happens is that a standard laboratory "reference range" deceives a man (and his physician) into believing that proper hormone balance exists because the results of a free testosterone test fall within the "normal" range. The following charts show a wide range of so-called "normal" ranges of testosterone for men of various ages. While these normal ranges may reflect population "averages," the objective for most men over age 40 is to be in the upper one-third tes-tosterone range of the 21- to 29-year-old group. Based on the following reference range chart from LabCorp, this means that optimal free testosterone levels should be between 21-26.5 nanogram/dL in aging men.
Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone from LabCorp
* 20-29 years 9.3-26.5 picogram/mL
* 30-39 years 8.7-25.1 picogram/mL
* 40-49 years 6.8-21.5 picogram/mL
* 50-59 years 7.2-24.0 picogram/mL
* 60+ years 6.6-18.1 picogram/mL
As you can see, your total test warrants you to check your free test. It's really not very high...Some men have their total testosterone measured. Standard reference ranges are between 241-827 nanograms/dL for most laboratories. Many older men are below 241. Optimal levels of total testosterone for most men are between 500-827 nanograms/dL. If your levels are lower than 500 nanograms/dL or even a little higher and you still have symptoms, you should check your free testosterone by the Direct (RIA) method.
Also, you're going to need LH and FSH checked. LH shows how much leutenizing hormone you're producing and FSH shows how much Follicle stimulating hormone you're producing. LH deals with testosterone and fsh deals with sperm production. So, in order to prove true recovery, you'll need both those numbers.
AGAIN! I'm not hating or calling you out, I just would rather people not be misinformed as to what "recovery" is during/after PCT.
01-12-2011, 04:47 PM
I will do some digging and see if I can find it. I am looking for the company who did my pre cycle in California but I can't remember the name it was a referral from a doctor
During PCT I felt great, I couldn't even tell I came off a cycle.
My strength has stayed right where it was and I am still hitting the weights just as hard as I did on cycle.
The only thing I changed was I increased my Fish oil intake to double what it was.]
fsh deals with sperm production
As far as this goes my test and sperm are always low because I had an issue that came up when I was in the military and basically one testical does nothing now, its still there it just doesn't function very well.
01-12-2011, 04:55 PM
How many bottles of Forma did you use if you used on AND off cycle?
Im just really interested in using this
01-12-2011, 05:35 PM
on cycle and off I used just over one bottle.
I could have made it with one, but since I was using this as a stand alone on pct I went up to 10 pumps a day twice a day just to make sure but I feel I could have done that the first week then tappered off as my pct went on.
I would seriously reccomend this stuff to anyone for pct. Infact I have, imy friends saw how I responded and bought some up. All pct I was like a 16 year old in gym class, horny and getting random boners.
01-12-2011, 06:12 PM
FSH has nothing to do with recovery. Free test is also alot more expensive to get done and rarely do I see blood tests on Anabolicminds that include free test in them. Total test is what is normally seen on here but I do agree free test is more important for bodybuilding. Total test goes down on cycle big time, so as long as it came back up in PCT that is a good indication of HPTA recovery since test production is present.
Indy thanks for sharing that and actually doing that.
Pre-bloodwork, LH, and estradiol is what I would love to see but I know it is way more expensive to get all that done and what you have provided I am very satisfied with.
I always believed Forma-stanzol was not suppressive in PCT and would help you big time in gain retention which it clearly has for you. And your test levels are almost at 600, 4 weeks in. That is a good sign nonetheless.
I think Forma-stanzol is becoming a hot aid for PCT and I look forward to more information like this.
01-12-2011, 06:36 PM
01-12-2011, 06:52 PM
The aim of the test was not really focused on whether he recovered from the cycle or not... the aim of it was to see how he would react to forma-stanzol thus taking the test 4 weeks while using the forma-stanzol for PCT. The good pecie of information I got from it was his total testosterone production was not suppressed. And at 10 pumps a day, that is a good dose to see a good hardening effect and some strength gains which sounds pretty damn good for PCT where you get soft (literally) and lose strength.
01-12-2011, 07:20 PM
ChocolateMilk, you say that you agree with imprezivr6 when he saysBut then contradict that by saying...It is showing your test is elevated from the PCT meds/supps, yes, but not that you are recovered
4-hydroxytestosterone can also show a false-positive on testosterone levels. For all we know he isn't recovered in the least. I hope he IS, and my point isn't to bash him, but come on.Formestane acts as a prohormone to 4-hydroxytestosterone, an active steroid which displays weak androgenic activity in addition to acting as a mild aromatase inhibitor.
Formestane has been around for a LONG time, it isn't some new item that was just introduced to the bodybuilding world.
Considering you are such a staunch advocate of always using a SERM during pct, well, you haven't said one thing about him not using one this time.
01-12-2011, 08:06 PM
BBG you are confusing me to be honest.
The aim of the test was to see how Forma-stanzol would be for PCT mainly. Only way we know that is if he recovered so indirectly yes, the aim of the test was to see if he recovered (why I agreed with him).
Correct, Formestane converts to 4-hydroxyandrostenedione which is also a weak prohormone to the anabolic steroid 4-hydroxytestosterone. That is where the whole issue with it being suppressive lies. Normal doses is fine though and you wont have a problem with that, it will actually help you during PCT. Look at how good his PCT went for gain retention, libido, and his total test of almost 600 using 10 pumps a day tells me shut down due to 4-hydroxytestosterone was not an issue, but that's just me.
Can you show me where you got the information that 4-hydroxytestosterone could show a false-positive on a blood test?
And can you show me a blood test that showed formestane to be suppressive at normal dosages which you are such an advocate for?
Point is, someone took Forma-stanzol solo for PCT, kept 12 of 15 pounds, had great libido, and had total test levels of 574 after 4 weeks of use (which he claims his numbers were around this pre-cycle). There is really nothing to argue here.
I too would like to see estradiol, LH, and free test, but that^ is still nothing to dismiss.
01-12-2011, 08:19 PM
BTW, there's such a thing as a 4-hydroxy test injectable and it has the same effects as testosterone... HMMMM
lol I love how we're doing this out of view of everyone on AM except the few dudes who travel to the N2 part of the forum.
Edit: damn it you changed your post again. anyone reading this, i just quoted before a few things were slightly modified.
01-12-2011, 08:24 PM
01-12-2011, 08:46 PM
01-12-2011, 08:59 PM
01-12-2011, 09:06 PM
01-12-2011, 09:17 PM
Chocolatemilk hangs low...
Always? I haven't looked through the whole thread, did you use formestane in PCT here?
btw I commented more on your post from before. If you care to take a look.
01-12-2011, 09:31 PM
Great job Indy with the Forma! Thanks for sharing the info bro!
Recoverbro Elite"This is what we've been working on"
01-12-2011, 09:45 PM
01-12-2011, 09:51 PM
okay, title should read
i was dumb enough to try forma-stanzol for pct, and i got lucky.
i beat the odds
posting a thread like this is irresponsible, now you got hundreds of people(kids probably)
thinking they can just use that for pct, and they will be fine.
let me make something clear, yes it appears you have recovered (partially) using forma-stanzol. BUT THIS MAY NOT WORK FOR OTHER PEOPLE
some people can recover without pct, some people need trt for life because their hpta will not recover
01-12-2011, 11:01 PM
You should know that simply adding a single atom to a molecule can drastically change it, not to mention a whole functional group.
01-12-2011, 11:05 PM
01-12-2011, 11:11 PM
A SERM is a SERM.
An AI is an AI.
Two different things.
Why is everyone freaking out?
Both should be used in PCT IMO where they will be beneficial. Not one or the other.
01-12-2011, 11:20 PM
01-12-2011, 11:25 PM
If he used a SERM as well, we wouldn't know what Forma-stanzol was doing.
Now we know Forma-stanzol is good to go for PCT... at least I do. I always did.
I am thinking of trying Test Cyp subQ .5ml 4x a week and seeing how it works. Sometimes we play with fire to better advance our understanding of things
01-12-2011, 11:52 PM
now 1 am member knows forma worked for HIM. If you assume off someone elses bloods that your gunna recover just like he is, you dont deserve to be on this forum
and playing with fire is stupid, when you can do things like READ STUDIES
why am i argueing with you... you are guna say wat your gunna say, i thought it was idiots that ran no pct that got phs banned... apparently its the companys fault too if they have a rep saying a serm isnt ness. for pct
forma may be helpful as an ai during a nolva or clomid or torem pct protocol.
01-13-2011, 12:20 AM
You seemed to comprehend my other post but back again claiming me to say a SERM is unnecessary.
You are over-reacting.
Getting Gyno or limp reproductive system from not running a SERM in PCT is very unlikely. It does happen... but very rare.
People will do what they will. This was not in my control this member just did this on his own.
People run experiments on here all the time with mixing this or that, bridging, overlapping, using this or that in PCT, getting bloodwork etc... welcome to the forum.
I will take what I can from it. And it seems you got the right message as well^
01-13-2011, 08:18 AM
Also, this is only a little thing, but OP.... here's a quote from you in a log...
Just wondering but why did you go to: 7621 austin bluffs parkway colorado springsBig - I'm not from indy born and raised in saint louis then cali for the Marines and back to saint louis for family reasons. Indepeniente was the name of my club soccer team and ill be damned if I was in indy at least 6 times a year playing. Evansville, Indy, and fort wayne
To get your bloodwork done? I mean, just a question.
01-13-2011, 12:55 PM
if you read all of my post you would see I was moving back and forth between Cali, to Stl, and Co.
I will continue to be back and forth for work, school, and the womans Family. I rather enjoy the mountains BBG, and I have a family member whos insurance lets me get free blood work in Co and since I am there almost every other month I took advantage of it.
I won't be back that way for a couple months but I will see about getting some blood work done at the end of this month just to show there is still no fluctuation in my levels.
It seems to me like people on this forum are not open to change at all, you are very set in your ways, and believe all the studies that come out.
I on the other hand don't put much faith in the pharmaceutical industry and what they push. That is another thread all on its own, but I am not one to argue so I will just stick with what I know works. Thanks for all the bickering though I skipped through most of it
01-13-2011, 12:58 PM
BBG, I've been saving something for you to see how far you would take the 4-hydroxytestosterone debate of yours lol. It was kind of funny.
Here is something you did not know...
Forma-stanzol converts to 4-hydroxytestosterone at well over 100mgs.
OP was taking 10 pumps which = 100mgs.
So with all your talk about 4-hydroxytestosterone and how it threw off the test and how it should not be taken during PCT... you do realize you only get conversion to 4-OHT at doses WELL over 100g right?
01-13-2011, 01:15 PM
01-13-2011, 03:26 PM
CM how much does the formestane convert to 4-OHT? I can't find any info on it tbh. Any studies done? I'm sure there are...
I'll let this rest for now, but I'm sure there will be more threads for me to scrutinize
I'll also ignore that you haven't addressed a single thing I posted in my last response.
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