Taking steroids 101. A starters guide to steroids.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Grambo View Post
    Too long did not read.......Cliffs?

    Haha just playing (I skimmed it ha) very good information there.
    Its all old news to you my man.. Well maybe not all of it but most of it.

  2. tons of great info in here!!

  3. Quote Originally Posted by needtogetmuscle View Post
    killing it

  4. niiiice

  5. Over the last 4-5 years there has been one subject people have come to me for help with over ans over again. One subject and one problem that every man fears and no man wishes on even there worst enemy. Gyno is a horrible horrible thing to deal with. It can ruin your life, rob you of confidence and change the way you look, act, and feel about your self. Often it leaves people feeling hopeless if they can not get rid of gyno right away and then surgery seems to be the only option they have to turn to.

    Gyno surgery is not a cheap option though. It can cost not only thousands of dollars but life long problems and side effects. A messed up surgery job can never be fixed and once its done you are stuck with it.

    Thankfully we have advanced and many of us are starting to learn that in time almost any if not all gyno can be cured with out surgery. Some times it may only take a month or two but for others it can take up to a year. However all gyno can be cured with the right combination of drugs,products, and cycles.

    The main problem is no one knows how, or is willing to trust another to show them. Well for years now I have been helping thousands of people with gyno and I am happy about what I do. I do not charge for it because I feel charging a man when he is down like that is immoral and wrong. So I offer my service free of charge to hundreds of people a day when I have the time ( I always find the time). My friends some of the info in this Article may seem jumbled or even hard to understand to many. Try and read everything and understand what you can. In the end just remember I am always here to help you and you can ask me anything you like, Send me a pm, a email, or even call me any time I am always here to help a fellow friend or brother in Iron.

    Just because you think I am to busy, or because you do not know me very well yet is no reason not to contact me. I am here to serve the members of this forum and all people who need help. This is no laughing matter and some people out there need serous help. That is why I am here!!!! :biggrin: I assure you that your gyno ( any kind) can be prevented and or cured. Do not believe the hype that the only way is surgery

    First before we can understand how to combat and deal with gyno we must first have a better understanding of the hormones involved with creating gyno. What they are, what they do, and even where they come from.

    What is Estrogen?

    Estrogen hormones are vital to the estrous cycle, and function as the primary female sex hormone. It also contains neuro-stimulative properties which is why too much estrogen can cause anxiety. Estrogen is synthesized in all vertebrate mammals as well as certain insects. The existence of these steroid hormones in both mammals and insects conveys that estrogenic sex hormones have an antique evolutionary account.

    E1 (good estrogen plays a role in bone formation and bone preservation. Estrogen does also play a role in preservation of cholesterol through increasing High Density Lipoprotein levels and lowering Low Density Lipoprotein levels. Estrogen also allows for healthy looking skin since it increases the production rate of melanin which explains why women are so pretty! Just take a look at Marilyn Monroe the perfect example of a beautiful bottle shaped women with plenty of estradiol. Estrogen also keeps women in a better mood, specifically estradiol.

    Unfortunately, Estrogen (E2) also plays a role in initiating prostate/breast cancer. Estrogen also aggravates blood platelet aggression which could lead to a severe blood clot, which leads to a stroke or heart attack/heart disease. Estrogen decreases fecal matter motility which leads to constipation. Estrogen also leads to loss of muscle mass and gains of fat deposits within the adipose tissues. Estrogen also leads to an increase in cortisol levels along with a rise in SHBG's. This quickly will lead to a DROP IN TESTOSTERONE! In theory, this could explain why steroid user's testosterone levels do not come back 100% percent with when usinga SERM alone for pct!! there is documentation showing that Selective Estrogen Modulators raise SHBG levels as well as studies that show they " raise not lower" estrogen levels.

    There are other sources of estrogen as well; the other common types are xenoestrogens, mycoestrogens, and phytoestrogens.

    These are outside sources of estrogen and we encounter them every day of our lives. often they are the cause for pubertal gyno a grossly growing problem around the world.

    Xenoestrogens are chemically produced compounds that have estrogenic effects and differ chemically from naturally occurring estrogenic substances such as female estrogen hormones. As a heterogeneous group of chemicals that are hormonally living compounds. Xenoestrogens show similarity to other estrogens such as phytoestrogens and mycoestrogens. Xenoestrogens also have pharmacological estrogens (estrogenic action is an intended effect, as in the contraceptive pill), but of course other chemicals can too have estrogenic effects. Xenoestrogens have been presented to the environment by industrial, agricultural, chemical companies and consumers only in the last 70 years give or take. However; archiestrogens have been a omnipresent part of the environment even prior to the existence of the human race. There is evidence that shows xenoestrogens create oncogenes by overstimulating proto-oncogenes. When an oncogene is highly stimulated it becomes a tumor cell which we all know is bad news. There is significant evidence in a variety of recent studies linking xenoestrogens to the onset of breast cancer by an increase in breast cancer growth within in the tissue of the mammary. Xenoestrogen exposure has shown to be a reason why boys have delayed pubertal onrises, these xenoestrogens have also been linked to giving pubertal boys gynecomastia or also known as GYNO. Gyno does not look appealing can really lower a young man or adult's self esteem. Gyno makes the difference of someone not being able to take of the shirt at the beach because of the fear that someone may make them feel less of a man by pointing out the gyno on his chest. (Pediatrics. 2003 Jul;112(1 Pt 2):247-52.) Xenoestrogen exposure and consumption has also been linked to testicular atrophy and reduction of gondal size. This issue leads to a hault in spermatogenesis, reproductive problems, barely or no sperm motility, an increase in estrogen to testosterone ratio which leads to the cessation of testosterone production, all these issues become VERY problematic to the HPTA.

    One well known Xenoestrogen is BPA; which is known to dramatically decrease DNA methylation by increasing hypomethylation. This causes a sudden rise in estrogens which causes problems to the male endocrine system. Bisphenol A functions as a xenoestrogen by binding STRONGLY to estrogen-related receptor γ (ERR-γ). This unidentified ligand behaves as a constitutive activator of transcription. BPA seems to bind strongly to ERR-γ (dissociation constant = 5.5 nM), but not to the estrogen receptor (ER). BPA binds to the ERR-γ to preserve its basal constitutive activity. (J Biochem. 2007 Oct;142(4):517-24. Epub 2007 Aug 30.) BPA has also been linked to an increase in prostate size and aggrevating prostate cancer. Another study displayed how BPA is an estrogen agonist and causes PERMANENT growth in the prostate, in other words its irreversible which is NOT GOOD! Exogenous estrogen was also shown to be the culprit in permanent growth of the prostate. Just a heads up, BPA is what a lot of companies use to make their plastic, many coming from plastic bottles. You might want to give your kids more Brita or filtered water instead of plastic bottles to avoid exposure to BPA. Another option would be to avoid canned foods with their notoriety of containing BPA. The scary fact is that it does not have to be much BPA exposure in order to cause all these affects, which something people should really analyze. BPA has also been linked to causing a drop in dopamine which leads to a LOSS IN LIBIDO and a drop in memory, in other words, an aging brain. BPA has also been shown to have negative effects on the thyroids which can be detrimental to fat loss and the homeostasis of the body. I have seen people have such drastic weight fluctuations due to their thyroid malfunction condition. (Journal Of Health Science. Vol. 55 (2009), No. 2. 147-160).

    Nonylphenol is of the organic compounds which are subsets of the alkylphenols. Nonylphenol is a useful precursor to certain detergents/laundry detergents. They are even used in contraceptives and condoms, really scary stuff indeed. Nonylphenol is considered to be an endocrine disruptor due to frail ability to mimic estrogen and in turn; disrupt the HPTA of the male endocrine system. The effects of nonylphenol is not as potent as other Xenoestrogens because nonylphenols are not very close structural mimics of estradiol, but the levels of nonylphenol can be sufficiently high to cause damage to the male endocrine system. Nonylphenol has been commonly detected in waste water streams across the world, which is a problem since we wash our clothes with that same water. For example, nonylphenol has been detected both in the Great Lakes and in the region of New York City. Nonylphenol is persistent in the environment, therefore lingers with the potential to negatively affect the humans and of course males endocrine systems. Nonylphenol also accumulates overtime, which is dangerous to those who eat meat, another reason why people should very conscious of where they buy their meat from.

    Parabens are found in lotions and also known to be xenoestrogens with pro-breast cancer activity. However it is one of the weaker forms of xenoestrogens.

    There is some evidence suggesting that the food preservative BHA is also a xenoestrogen, California has already made it a policy to label BHA as a carcinogen.

    DDT which is a WELL KNOWN insecticide has also a xenoestrogen has been touted as an endocrine distributor because of its negative effects on semen quality. It's a highly estrogenic component that causes a decline in testosterone. There is research that shows that DDE a metabolite of DDT acts as anti-androgen. This means that one will feel and act less like a man when exposed to it, ranging from a lack of libido to being a straight up wimp. DDT has also been linked to causing increased risks of diabetes and also provoking a lack of function within the thyroid hormones. They have also linked DDT to testicular cancer, which is more proof for how destructive this xenoestrogen is to the endocrine system. DDT is also linked to breast cancer but that is pretty obvious since it is a XENOESTROGEN.

    As you can see Xenoestrogens range from sunscreen lotion to women's cosmetics, this lets you know that our endocrine system is threatened everyday just by our environment alone.

    My friends the odds are stacked against us, and it does not end here.

  6. Phytoestrogens

    Phytoestrogens also known as "dietary estrogens", are a varied group of naturally occurring non-steroidal plant compounds that share of their similar structure with estradiol, and have the ability to cause estrogenic much more often than anti-estrogenic effects. Phytoestrogens primarily belong to a large group of substituted polyphenolic compounds; which comprise of the coumestans, prenylated flavonoids (the hobs you find in beer) and isoflavones (soybean are genistein and daidzein which are all bad for the endocrine system) are three of the most active in estrogenic effects in this class. The most researched and documented are the isoflavones, which are normally found in soy and red clover. Lignans have also been identified as phytoestrogens, although they are not flavonoids. Mycoestrogens have comparable structures and effects, but are not related to plants; they are mold metabolites of Fusarium. Phytoestrogens exert their effects mostly through binding to estrogen receptors (ER). There are two variants of the estrogen receptor, alpha (ER-α) and beta (ER-β) and numerous phytoestrogens display fairly higher affinity for ER-β compared to ER-α. Besides the interaction with estrogen receptors, phytoestrogens can also modulate the concentration of endogenous estrogen hormones by binding or ceasing efficiency of some enzymes, and this could affect the bioavailability of sex hormones by binding or stimulating the synthesis of sex hormone binding globuline. Foods with the highest relative phytoestrogen content were nuts and oilseeds, followed by soy products, cereals and breads, legumes, meat products, and other processed foods that may contain soy, vegetables, fruits, alcoholic, and nonalcoholic beverages. Flax seed and other oilseeds contained the highest total phytoestrogen content, followed by soybeans and tofu. The highest concentrations of isoflavones are found in soybeans and soybean products followed by legumes, whereas lignans are the primary source of phytoestrogens found in nuts and oilseeds (e.g. flax) and also found in cereals, legumes, fruits and vegetables.

    Phytoestrogen concentration varies in diverse foods, and can contrast significantly within the same group of foods depending on processing mechanisms and the type of soybean extract used. Legumes, whole grain cereals, and several seeds are high in phytoestrogens. A more broad list of foods known to have phytoestrogens includes: soybeans, tofu, soy beverages, flax, sesame seeds, barley, dried beans, lentils, apples, carrots, pomegranates, wheatberries, oats, wheat germ, rice bran, soy linseed bread, ginseng, hops bourbon, beer, fennel yams, rice, alfalfa, mung beans and anise.

    There has been an increase in reports about incidences of male reproductive abnormalities and falling sperm counts have driven interest into the nature of these threats to worldwide fertility. Xenoestrogens have been flagged as major culprits. These non-steroidal estrogens/oestrogens of plant derivation are potent endocrine disruptors that modulate normal physiological functions. Phytoestrogens have also become a major factor in the usual Western fast food diet over the last few decades. Soy formula milk is another widespread source of phytoestrogens, now used increasingly as an alternative to breast or cow's milk for infants with allergies. This use is of a HUGE concern since the most vulnerable periods for oestrogenic abuse are thought to be the pre- and neonatal periods when almost irreversible harm can be brought onto the developing child. Studies concerning the safety of phytoestrogens are now needed either to relieve fears or increase awareness of the effects of our current diet on potential fertility. (2005, Vol. 8, No. 3 , Pages 197-207 (doi:10.1080/14647270500030266)).

    Phytoestrogens don't even provide benefit in women

    A HEALTHY women post menopausal consumes less than 1mg of phytoestrogens, which is pretty much nothing. There was a study conducted with 964 postmenopausal Caucasian women who participated in the Framingham Offspring Study and completed the Willett food-frequency questionnaire (FFQ). By searching the agricultural and medical literature, they were able to identify food sources of phytoestrogens. The concentrations of the diverse isoflavones, coumestrol and lignans in each food in the FFQ were scored in seven categories, then multiplied by the serving size of the food, and the frequency of its expenditure. The estimated daily median intake of the isoflavone daidzein was 39 microg (24-57 microg); of genistein, 70 microg (28-120 microg); of formononetin, 31 microg (13-44 microg); and of biochanin A, 6 microg (2-11 microg). Median total intake of isoflavones was 154 microg (99-235 microg). The main sources of isoflavones were peas and soy beans. The estimated daily intake of coumestans was 0.6 microg (0.2-1.7 microg), with broccoli as the key source. The estimated daily median intake of matairesinol was 19 microg (12-28 microg) and of secoisolariciresinol 560 microg (399-778 microg). The median total intake of lignans was 578 microg (416-796 microg). The main source of the lignans was fruits. (J Nutr. 2001 Jun;131(6):1826-32.)

    As you see from the information above, one serving alone of these phytoestrogens can be detrimental to women's health over a period of time. Even more so to a man!

    Phytoestrogens have also been linked to immunosuppressive effects along a decrease in thyroid output function. These studies that linked phytoestrogens to immunodeficiency showed how consumption of SOY isoflavone and genistein lowered t-cells which we know is something that occurs usually in HIV/AIDS patients. HIV/AIDS is a diease which causes one's immune system to shut down completely allowing one to catch any disease.

    Estrogen is all around us; it is well known that the estradiol level in 55-year old men, for example, is usually a bit higher than that of a 55-year old woman. Unfortunately after the age of the 30, men's testosterone levels continue to plummet 10 percent every 10 years. Many factors lead to estrogen dominance ranging from life stress to the xenoestrogens we consume. A man, however, does not develop breasts because he has a higher testosterone level than women do and a lower estrogen ( the world is changing this).

    As men age, their estradiol levels gradually rise, whereas their progesterone and testosterone levels gradually fall. The hormone balance changes. These gradual changes lead to reduction in testosterone benefits and eventually to estrogen dominance.

    That is, a mans estradiol effects emerge since his testosterone level is not sufficient to block or balance out the Estrogen. The Estrogen Dominance then stimulates breast cell and prostate hypertrophy. Estrogen Dominance is responsible for the majority of breast cancers and is the only known cause of endometrial cancer in women. Since the male prostate is pretty much the equivalent of the uterus, it should not be unexpected that estrogen dominance is also a major cause of prostate cancer as stated before.

    In today's world estrogen dominance is accruing at a much younger age and at a much faster rate. Even for much younger when when estrogen is not completely dominant the much higher levels of estrogen is still causing life long problems.

    Estrogen dominance is a growing health concern for Men all over the world. Although it is more common in older men. It is quickly becoming a epidemic in younger men causing such problems as infertility, erectile dysfunction, enlarged prostate, and certain types of cancer. Many of the symptoms can be seen in our youth today. Many of the symptoms you may even notice in your own life.

    The symptoms of estrogen dominance in men include:

    Low sex drive
    Impotency/erectile dysfunction
    Male pattern baldness
    Gynecomastia, or "man boobs"
    Weight gain
    Enlarged prostate
    Prostate cancer
    Testicular cancer
    mood swings
    and many many more.

    Symptoms of the on set of gyno
    puffy nips
    Itchy and or sore nips
    lactating or fluid from the nipples
    Pain to the touch


    In adolescent boys, the condition is often a source of distress, but for the large majority of boys whose pubescent gynecomastia is not caused by obesity, usually the breast enlargement shrinks or disappears within several years. The condition is usually caused by an imbalance of estrogenic to androgenic (usually estradiol to testosterone ratio) effects on the breast tissue, resulting in a surge of unconstrained estrogen action on breast tissue. Approximately only 4 to 10% cases of gynecomastia are due to drugs. The aromatization takes place in the cyto-chrome enzyme P-450. Both Digoxin and Furosemide are drugs reported to cause the gyno as well, however; anabolic androgenic steroids are the most common drugs in causing gynecomastia. Breast prominence can result from hypertrophy of the breast tissue, chest adipose tissue (fat) and skin, and is normally a combination of the two. Breast distinction due exclusively to too much adipose is often termed pseudogynecomastia aka psedogyno or sometimes lipomastia.

    Types of Gynecomastia

    Puffy Nips: is one of the more common forms of gynecomastia. This glandular tissue buildup is concentrated under and in general confined to the areola, however; it can be slightly extended outside the areola forming a dome shaped image to the areola.

    Glandular: This form of gyno is common with bodybuilders as a result of the use of anabolic androgenic steroids. The undeniable overload testosterone levels from AAS (specifically any form of test) are converted to estrogen via aromatization. Bodybuilders and along other athletes are afflicted with gynecomastia in its purest form when suffering from AAS gyno. However; drug-induced gynecomastia can almost be resolves with the use of proper supplementation, if caught before permanent fibrosis develops and even after it can still be cured.

    Gynecomastia in lean men is generally only a breast tissue gland with no added adipose tissue; heavier men will have sloppier looking gyno because of the adipose tissue covering the glandular tissue. Guaranteed treatment of pure gynecomastia can be done simply by removal of the breast tissue, which also rids of the gyno tissue. Most of the time the glandular tissue is benign but at times it can become malignant, so gyno is NO laughing matter and must be taken serious especially during or after a cycle. So good bro's make sure you keep an eye out on your chest during cycle and take good care of yourself during and post cycle. Again I must stress that any and almost all gyno can be treated with out surgery but in some cases it is better to take care of it sooner rather then later.

    Adolescent/Pubertal Gynecomastia: The Congenital or Hereditary Gynecomastia is on average evident by the ages of 9 to 18 in young males. About thirty percent to sixty percent of young adolescent boys experience pubertal gynecomastia. UNFORTUNATELY, thirty percent possibly will live with enlarged male breasts for the rest of their lives, but in other cases the gynecomastia will go away with age. However, severe forms of adolescent gynecomastia may require an involvement, in conference with the patient, the parents, and child development professionals. Now of course there is hope for men who have lived with gyno all of there lives. Your parents may have neglected it but there is no reason you have to.

    Adult or andropause gyno: This is the most common form of gynecomastia due to declining androgen levels with a rise in estrogen in elderly or post andropause men. Gynecomastia based off of post andropause in most adults is composed mainly of glandular tissue but it may contain varying amounts of adipose and tough tissue. Now you know why old men have those wrinkly chests that look like they never had the shape of pecs on them before.

    Asymmetric/Unilateral: Unilateral gynecomastia occurs when only one breast is bigger due to a case of gynecomastia. The other breast is usually normal in size and shape. Bilateral Asymmetry occurs when gynecomastia is present in both breasts, of course; each being to a different degree. Most bodybuilders and boys during puberty acquire unilateral gyno, and by a pretty big margin I might add.

    Severe gynecomastia: is described as an excess or loose skin, and severely enlarged breasts. This form of gyno is determined in part by age, reason being older people suffering from gynecomastia tend to have less skin elasticity and therefore will have a greater profusion of excess skin associated to gynecomastia. Experienced plastic surgeons will perform as much of the surgical treatment of severe gynecomastia as feasible through an aereolar incision so as to avoid widespread scarring. However, some scarring may be inevitable when treating severe cases of gynecomastia. The larger the gyno the more the scaring and this is why even if you are going to have surgery once should try to reduce gyno in size as much as possible beforehand

  7. Pseudogynecomastia: is not composed of glandular tissue, but rather of adipose tissue (fat). It looks a lot like typical gynecomastia but requires different treatment. Exercise and diet can be very effective in preventing and fighting off pseudogynecomastia. Only if this regimen is unsuccessful should surgery be considered an option. This is generally the only type of gynecomastia which can be improved with liposuction, but removal may be used in some cases as well. This form of gyno is also known as "false Gynecomastia" and is often associated with obesity whereby insulin interacts with a surplus of sugars or certain carbohydrates, specifically those of which that have been processed.

    Not just estrogen causes gyno!!


    Gynecomastia can be as a result of a number of agents including estrogens, progestins, GH, IGF-1, and prolactin may all be involved. Regarding prolactin, androgens decrease prolactin levels while estrogens increase prolactin. Non-aromatizing androgens such as DHT have by no means been shown to raise prolactin levels in humans, but testosterone has, due to its aromatization to estradiol. Prolactin secreting tumors also known as prolactinomas, are often linked with gyno. Of course in these cases the prolactin is believed to induce gyno by suppressing testosterone production. Prolactinomas that are adequately large to cause gynecomastia, do cause gyno as a consequence of the impairment of Gonadotropin secretion, which leads to secondary hypogonadism. Remember Prolactin only has a direct effect on breast tissue only when estrogen is present so they say ( how much is needed?). This is why they say lowering estrogen levels will lead to lower prolactin levels and then eventually less occupied progesterone receptors. Keep in mind just using something to lower estrogen will not cure gyno when progesteonr/prolactin is one of the culprits. Also take into consideration that as IGF and GH levels rise, they will also rise within the mammary glands which could cause a growth of glandular tissue if the rise in IGF and GH is too rapid. This in basic terms means you got the GYNO.

    After awhile, excess levels of prolactin also lead to laction which is when the mammary gland secretes milk. I don't know about you my friend but milk coming from my nips just is not something I want to experience. And I have no plans to feed young children even my own. Secretion is not the only way of knowing your gyno is of progesterone/prolactin nature but it is one clear indicator.

    Aromatizing AAS

    There are AAS that are more likely to induce gynecomastia whether it be due to aromatization or aromatization with progesterone site binding. Here is a small/general list of the more common and moderate to high aromatizing compounds.

    Any form of Testosterone


    Deca Durabolin/nanodrolone (progesterone)



    Any form of Trenbolone (progesterone)and androgenic

    Anadrol 50 Receptor cross over

    Nondrolone Laurate (progesterone)


    M 1,4ad

    13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-dien-17-one (progesterone)

    2a, 17a-dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one-17b-ol

    13 ethyl 3 methoxy


    Many people have reported receiving gyno from Superdrol, people question those accusations since superdrol is a 5aReduced compound, however; Professor Filimanov the formulator of Need2Slin.

    " Prolactin is normaly caused by progestins, but can also be caused by dht, how?
    For example, it is currently understood that when testosterone enters the cell cytoplasm it is subsequently converted to the more "active" androgen, dihydrotestosterone, DHT, by reduction at the 5alpha position, this is normal. Dihydrotestosterone is then either bound to a cytoplasmic "receptor" protein Rc, or is further metabolized to either 5alpha-androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol or 5alpha-androstane-3beta,17beta-diol ,DIOL. The binding of DHT to its cytoplasmic receptor protein results in translocation of the steroid-receptor complex into the nucleus where presumably the complex dissociates and DHT exerts its androgenic effects. The transport of DHT to the nucleus can also result from the conversion of testosterone to DHT by nuclear membrane-bound 5alpha-reductase. Prolactin augmentation of DHT effects is envisioned as resulting from interaction of prolactin with its receptor, which due to the large size of the prolactin molecule is probably located in or on the plasma membrane.
    Because superdrol is androgenic, but lacks the ability to show affinity via 5ar, it circulates, and this causes the large amounts of androgens to look for a transporter, so that it can bind to the androgen receptor, so it uses prolactin which has a high affinity to cytoplasmic receptor protein, allowing the androgens, testosterone, to be carried and allowing them to convert to dht, only problem is prolactin hormone or luteotropic hormone is synthesised and secreted by sex binding lactotrope cells in the adenohypophysis (anterior pituitary gland, And this gland now produces more prolactin to help deal with the large amount of testosterone circulating that hasnt bound to the estrogen of androgen receptor, Part of the reason why superdol is so anabolic, So instead of binding to the androgen receptors in the scalp and the prostrate it converts to dht through this unique process, using prolactin to enter the cytoplasmic receptror protein, and allowing it to convert to dht and then bind to the androgen receptors in the muscle, causing its distinct hardening effects, it still can't bind to the scalp or prostrate via 5ar as the form of dht it has converted too doesnt allow for that affinity.
    So more prolactin is produced to allow for the superdol to find a receptor ,this excess prolactin triggers a process that fills the breast with milk via a process called lactogenesis, in men however it causes a distinct enlargment of the mammary gland and can even cause a man to lactate.

    If superdrol had better binding to the androgen receptor via 5AR then this problem would be prevented, the other thing is that prolactin production can remain elevated for months after a cycle has finished, and once the androgen has been removed, ( the cycle is over) the cytoplasmic receptor proteins have nothing to do other than to allow the prolactin to proceed with its hormonal action within the body, causing the male mammary gland to enlarge ready to produce milk... Hence the REBOUND GYNO, this is why proper pct is needed for superdrol, and the use of something to prevent prolactin."

    As you see Professor Filimanov reinstates the correlation between prolactin/progesterone and estrogen which could lead to gyno even with a compound such as Superdrol.

    Receptor cross over can also occur. Hormones are keys and your receptors are like locks. What happens is a hormone is ether placed in the body (by an out side source) or it is produced with in the body. This hormone we will call a "key". The hormone then sets out to find a "lock" that it can fit into,turn, and sequentially open up the components inside. To go one step more and make it a little more simple I will explain it like this.
    Imagine your receptors as little treasure chest. Inside is chest it a set of instructions. This set of instructions can be a number of things. It can be directions to another chest or a task that must now be carried out. With out something to open the chest the instructions can never be carried out or the next chest found and opened. Following me ?

    Some hormones are more like "dummy keys" will call them. They will find a "lock" and set them self into the "Lock hole" but then that is it. They never turn the key and open up whats inside. so we see hormones often work like this

    1. Key fits a lock. AKA a hormone found a lock and set its self into it. Pretty simple

    2. Key was not a dummy key and when it set its self into the lock it turned and opened up the chest letting out the instructions inside that will now be carried out.

    3 "master keys" We will call them. Or "Muti function keys"

    A subject not much talked about on any of the steroid forums or even in many articles I have come across is the fact that. In respect to anabolic steroids (out side source of hormones) most of them have all been explained as just "lock" and "key" . However the truth is pro hormones,disginer steroids and steroids all have "Multi function" and some even "Master key" functions.
    as you can see explained earlier.

    By now I am sure you are confused but that is fine. The body is a extremely complex thing and everyone's body acts the same yet differently when it comes to hormones. This is why a lot of times you must work with some one to help find out what works for you. To help find out more about you and how your body works, as well as the basics of science and how all things "should" work.

    This last part has thrown many for a loop. Leaving many wondering why the have gyno when they did everything right, and used all the right compounds. The sad truth is there is no Guarantee that you will not end up with a case of gyno.

    However there is one Guarantee and that being that no matter what the odds are on your side that your gyno can be reversed with proper supplementation my friends. You just need to know how. Often it is best to work with some one who has experience and has worked with many others to prevent or reverse gyno of all kinds.

    Believe me friends, I know it is NOT easy by any means to feel comfortable about your body when you have gyno whether it be from puberty or AAS usage. It can really make one depressed knowing that their chest is not masculine appealing to the people around them or themselves. I know people who LOW SELF ESTEEM for years because of their pubertal gyno. We as people struggle on a daily basis to fit in whether it be through appearance, social status, or self accomplishment. The people I witnessed getting rid of their gyno, achieved all those forms of greatness and more at least to themselves which is all that matters; since it's your body and your life.

    Now Of course it is time for the good part. The part every one has been waiting for. If all gyno can be cured then how?

    Well My friends I am sorry to be the one to tell you. Yes there are drugs and products out there that work to reduce estrogen. Yes there are drugs that reduce progesterone and or porlactin. Yes there are serms that block the progesterone receptors. Yes all of these drugs and or supplements can be used to reduce,prevent, and even cure existing gyno.

    However anyone out there giving you a cookie cutter gyno removing program is simple trying to do one thing. SELL YOU A PRODUCT/GROUP OF PRODUCTS AND OR DRUGS. Or they are only speaking from experience for what worked for them NOT YOU!!!

    How many of you have used a friends advice because it worked for them,only to be disappointed when it does not work for you?
    How many of us have tried everything only to find nothing worked? Or have you tried everything?

    The fact of the matter is I do not hand out cookie cutter programs because although they may work for some they do not work for everyone. Each person must find out what works for them. Each person must learn how they will react to different products,drugs, and combination thereof.

    One person my use nolva and it worked great for them. Another may use it and there gyno gets worse or they have a rebound long after. You must learn to read your body, learn what it is telling you. You must learn how to change things exactly when they need to be changed for you and why.

    You must start off by having everything you need before hand. This is the one thing that is the same for everyone. When people make the statement "aaah just get some letro" Or hey man all you need is some arimadex and dostinex you will be fine" These people hardly know what they are talking about most of the time. They know what worked for them, they know what might have worked for others. However the most importent fact they know nothing about is WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AND HOW YOU WILL REACT.

    Everyone is always looking for the cheap way out. Or the easy way out. SO often we jump all over the quick easy and cheap advice that is so readily handed out on the aas forums today.

    When you are ready to do it right, when you want results, when you are at the end of your rope. Then you will bite the bullet and spend the money to get "everything" you need. A gyno removing program can have side effects and the proper supplements should be taken to counteract them.

    When it comes to some causes of gyno you have to understand that it took years of exposure to out side estrogen to cause the problem. It may not be resolved overnight but it can be in the end and I am always here to help you do this.

    Feel free to pm me any time my friends I am always here on the forums. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

    preventing Gyno of course is another topic in its self. When it comes to on cycle gyno prevention one should always use as little as he can or non at all if he can get away with it.
    If you do not need it then do not use it. However always have it on hand IMO.

    Many of the drugs known today for gyno prevention all have there pitfalls and some are better then others for different reasons. If prevention is what you are looking for then forma-stanzol happens to be the best choice for many different reasons. You can read more about this compound here in this thread. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/an...nt-698487.html

    5 to 10 pumps morning and night is all one would need depending on the dosing of the cycle you are on. Back up plans should always be in place and on hand. One should always have letro and dostinex on hand but never a need to use them unless nothing else works.

    During pct often people use just nolva or clomid and neglect that fact that these compounds do nothing to lower estrogen nor do they do anything at all for raised levels of prolactin or progesterone. Forma-stanzol on the other hand does.

    Lastly I would like to open then thread up for discussion and questions by all. If you have any feel free to ask here or send me a pm and I will get to them as I can. Thank you to all.

  8. Thanks and welcome aboard here! I know you are a sincere and ethical man. Your caring knowledge is very much appreciated here.

  9. thnx for the altruism and looking out fo the a.m. bros

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull View Post
    Thanks and welcome aboard here! I know you are a sincere and ethical man. Your caring knowledge is very much appreciated here.

  11. This post has so much great info.
    Finally made a sticky!

  12. A LOT of good info
    Recoverbro Elite
    "This is what we've been working on"

  13. bump.

    very informative and useful. Thanks so much!

  14. priceless info

  15. Thank you very much for the info. I'll be referencing this thread a lot.

  16. awesome, definitely helped me out

  17. Thank you for the generous amount of information. I am researching around to decide what to use as pct for a cycle of 13-Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2, 5(10)-Diene-17-One 25mg. Consensus seems to be clomid. If I added Forma-stanzol per your recommendation, would that cover my bases? Should Forma be used during the ph cycle or only in the pct?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by powerfade View Post
    Thank you for the generous amount of information. I am researching around to decide what to use as pct for a cycle of 13-Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2, 5(10)-Diene-17-One 25mg. Consensus seems to be clomid. If I added Forma-stanzol per your recommendation, would that cover my bases? Should Forma be used during the ph cycle or only in the pct?

    clomid, DAA, forma stanzol will work fine. Take some vitex & p5p for anti prolactin support also


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