Lifting for gains
- 11-19-2011, 12:37 PM
Lifting for gains
So I can fo to the gym and work out for hours on all the different muscles. Work out to exhaustion for five days straight. Them next two days is almost like coma. And the next week is a light one. Should I just stick to 3-4sets and call it good and feel better. Or rip it up. Do you gain more mass from killing yourself or just doing reps.
- 11-19-2011, 01:15 PM
- 11-19-2011, 05:22 PM
11-20-2011, 07:40 PM
No one really knows do they?! Let me guess, it's what ever you like. My ass!! Anyone got the conference around here?
11-20-2011, 08:02 PM
High reps is where its at for me, hypertrophy, check out HST it s popular and works well.
11-20-2011, 08:06 PM
Yeh, you can overtrain, the muscles stop reacting to growth stimulus. 3 full body workouts a week is all ya need, 3 sets, 10 to 12 reps, step load protocol. As long as yer eatin right should be good to go.
11-20-2011, 11:48 PM
I feels like 3-4 full body work outs a week would be great. But is that going to just maintain more then build. Do you do three a week? How big are you getting or have gotten from it? I just want to body build mot lift crazy weight.
11-21-2011, 10:10 AM
I think that everyone reaches a max in their muscle growth. Yeh I do 3 full body wos a week. Building more muscle requires massive amounts of calories that equals money spent. Right now Im not huge but its obvious I lift. Hypertrophy is where its at for me right now, light weights 10-15 reps. 3 sets. Im maintaining, Ive been bigger but its expensive to eat. Sure I love going up in the poundages big time but the caloric intake required to produce the strength is too expensive right now. Cheap junk food and starches just dont do it. A pound of high quality meat a day gets costly.
11-21-2011, 10:53 AM
I would and perform, volume. High volume with a moderate rep range 5-8 works well for me with a 1-2 minute break in between sets. Volume was the answer for me even after a few years of decent games, volume brought it to another level
11-21-2011, 11:29 AM
Curious as well....
I think a mixture of both would be good.
Use a weight that's kind of challenging, eat right, stay consistent.
But I'm curious on how to grow the beat way possible: in for ideas...
11-21-2011, 11:37 AM
Well you will never get a MAGIC answer because of individuality and many egocentric protocols. Experimentation is best and the hardest way but that's life. Volume does it's trick for a lot of people and it was the answer for me do to my training experience.
11-21-2011, 12:32 PM
Guess I'll try higher volume and moderate weight
11-21-2011, 10:11 PM
I just can't wait 1-2 min between sets. I can when I have a partner or two. I have been doing super sets with the same muscle part just different movements to get them parts hurting, like incline press ss with incline flys with a over head stretch. It kills my chest. Or decline press ss with cable cross overs but crossing over more towards the groin area so it activates the lower chest more. I have been doing that for about the last month and feel like my chest is thankful for it. Just been running with no routine. I also think you need the routine, that is y I am back on one as of today. I will continue to do better then the last time. Easy to say.... I don't know what works the best.... Wish some smart dude would tell me. Make my weight lifting hobby a hell of a lot more fun! Or productive with all the time and money that goes into it.
11-21-2011, 10:23 PM
I'm going to try light weight with a 12-15 reps. Not super light but just enough.
I heard people make gains that way as well. It still stresses the muscles.
I switched to upper body 2 a week and lower body twice a week. It's my first week. 2-3 sets & 1 or 2 exercise for each muscle but remember that's twice a week. We will see how it goes.
11-21-2011, 10:43 PM
11-21-2011, 11:10 PM
Everyone responds differently depending on genetics. Some guys have what I call the 'freak' gene where they can work out 3 days and still have that swole and jacked look. This is the case with the guy I first started training with when I got to college. Kid was a monster no matter what we did, he was absolute animal looking. Very frustrating yet motivational when ur a frail freshmen like I was lol.
This being said, through all my endeavors in the gym over the last 4 years as a serious lifter as a college athlete I'm still a firm believer in muscle confusion. Training for strength i feel goes hand in hand with hypertrophy. I started 4 years ago at 5' 9" 160lbs and that's generous. Redshirted first year so I committed to just building mass. I blasted hard for 8 weeks and would take a week of high rep at bout 30% of my 1rm. Then get back to it hard and repeated the process. I would use pyramid schemes and drop sets with training til failure and had a 4 on 1 off split. Used mainly grneric lifts and compound lifts like squats and cleans.I ate like a beast and blew up. Got up to bout 173lbs in 8 months or so and granted some was fat but my bf% never surpassed 12% throughout.
The next couple of months I focused on my diet and strength gain. With compound lifts, extremity (bi's, tri's, calves, forearms) lifts, and core focus work. Would superset every major lift with a core exercise like toe touches, crunches, leg raises, planks. This really shredded Nd strengthened my full body because while activating my core in lifts, I was now focusing in on the abs an lower back a bit extra. Really shredded me up in the midsection. By the time I finished my sophomore year I was at 185lbs and 9% bf.
Hit my junior season in the spring at 180lbs and 8%bf. really went back to my hypertrophy training with low rep heavy compound lifts to failure. Currently in my senior year and weighed in yesterday at 187lbs and 9% bf.
Now with all this background rant...I digress, through my experiences with various trainers (one of which is former ny mets training staff and others that work with nfl guys) and my education in exercise science partially, I've learned that it's about muscle confusion through various splits, rep schemes, fast twitch slow twitch muscle training exercises and diet. IMO you must constantly change and alternate your workouts. As previously mentioned your muscles learn to adapt to exercises. Small variations in hand position or rotations, you can throw your muscle memory off enough to make gains. I try to change my muscle specific days weekly. If I hit chest on Monday and do incline press, and I do chest on Saturday I'll do incline flies instead of press or go to cable incline presses. Small changes like this can truly elevate your gains.
In addition, if your a strength guy like I am as a baseball guy, I recommend creating 5 day split with focus on compound lifts superseted with core exercises like med ball throws and what not to develop power. (clean to press with med ball twist throws) 30-45 seconds rest max.
If your looking for your size gains I recommend 4 day split with muscle concentration days with ab workouts 3 days a week. You'll see great gains in hypertrophy with the 5-8 rep range til failure. 1:00-1:30 rest be patient lol. Stay away from cardio exceeding 15 minutes. It can be catabolic to muscle growth.
Remember though, recovery is key. You must be open to really committing to off days and a week thrown in here and there where you lower your weight and raise your reps. Allows your muscles to recover and at the same time still confusing them.
Diet is another story And I could go on all night on that topic. Quick recommendation though, cut the crap food, stay away from fried stuff, red & white meats, stick to water (1.5-2 gallons/day) and eat like a beast.
Eat clean, confuse your muscles, get creative, get 8 hours sleep, and mentally commit to your program and your goals and you will grow. Be patient. It's taken me 4 years to reach where I'm at now and I'm not content (but them again who ever is) It's taken countless guys years and decades to reach their goals. Work hard and believe in yourself and don't compare to others, your not competing against anyone except yourself. Take it one workout at a time and kill every one!
Disclaimer: I'm no professional in any field and only speak to my personal experiences and education. I'm just another guy trying to lend a hand to someone asking for help in this quest for beastlyness.
Enjoy the journey and never stop learning and adapting. Good luck man! Hope I helped and apologize for my long and unnecessary story. Hope some of it made sense.
11-22-2011, 07:55 AM
Wish some smart dude will tell you? ahaha. I told you what i thought, and if your not taking adequate rest to lift heavy weight then your not going to get the full benefits and probably just get sarcoplasmi hypertrophy instead of actual growth. High reps lower weight? What are you training for endurance? LOL you guys are two much, im out of here
11-22-2011, 07:57 AM
Originally Posted by JajaNe20
I'm sure this comment is not directly related to me because I didn't say I wish some smart dude would tell me that was someone else, but I will say this:
If you only think you can make gains by strictly going heavy I would say you're mistaken.
Also some people train for both strength and endurance.
11-22-2011, 08:16 AM
11-22-2011, 08:36 AM
Hell yeah.Originally Posted by Big boy D
11-22-2011, 10:15 AM
11-22-2011, 10:29 AM
I am really surprised no one had mentioned DC training. It is an excellent style of training regarding making lean gains naturally.
11-22-2011, 10:48 AM
Originally Posted by JajaNe20
I'm still at you though.
11-22-2011, 10:57 AM
11-22-2011, 11:13 AM
Anything that stresses out that muscle works.Originally Posted by JajaNe20
One thing may not be better than another.
11-22-2011, 12:40 PM
Anything that stresses out the muscle? I am asking what is best for gains. Be it diet, training style, sex in the am. Anything, just sounds like boredom to me. Adventure, like your climbing for the goal at the top of olympia. With reason, need, drive! Set a goal so far outside of your reach, the day you reach it, is the day you realize that anything is possible. Ya know......
11-22-2011, 12:58 PM
there is no best way cause our bodies all work differently.
All I'm saying is to make any gains you need to stress the muscle, in some way shape or form. I couldn't even tell you what the best way is or if I even know what the best for me is yet. I'm just going to keep trying and I'm not going to quit and I'm not going to stop & I'm not going to give up... That's what working best for me.
11-22-2011, 05:21 PM
Its important to lift properly to maximize gains and prevent injury. So, there are basic things done when weightlifting. Just lifting to lift may be part of that but it has to be done with form and recovery in mind, some people make fast gains, others dont. It seems best to plan your workouts and do things just right 3x10 with at least one minute between sets, comes to mind.
11-22-2011, 10:52 PM
That comes to my mind also, but then I jump to how meany hybrids evolve from that one 3x10 routine. Makes you nuts. Is the 3sets of ten and burn outs and clean jerks, that I first learned. My roots to weightlifting. Is that my answer. The one I already knew?
11-23-2011, 06:23 AM
IMO whichever workout you choose its more important on focusing to do it twice as hard as another guy your size would... i swear when i go to the gym 1/2 the dudes in there barely have a sweat when they leave. Push your body to the max in whatever form your training, give it nutrients, and it'll compensate
11-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Virtually anyone can make progress using the standard 3x10, 3 times weekly protocol with adequate rest between sets. Prevents over training too. JMO
11-23-2011, 06:57 PM
DC is good, but to really get the most out of it you need to have several years of consistant training under your belt.
A good start would be to run a 3 or 4 day a week schedule with no more than 2 days back to back. You don't grow in the gym...you grow as you recover. This is good for most athletes natural or otherwise.
Next, if you want to do your own programing pick a main exercise for each body part, or a main movement for that day (the main one can be heavier)...then add one or two supplemental or isolation movements (usually at a higher rep range...think 10-15, and sometimes even 20+).
I highly recommend Jim Wendler's 5/3/1. It's a great, flexible program that will make you stronger AND bigger if you're eating enough.
Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" program is solid as well.
A basic layout I did a long time ago was something like this:
pick a basic compound exercise for whatever part you're doing that day and hit it for 5x5.
Then pick 1-2 other movements and do them for 2 x 8-10.
Easy as that. e.g. -
(Not counting warm ups)
Squats = 5 sets of 5 reps
Leg press= 2 sets of 15 ( I know I said 8-10, but high rep leg presses with constant tension is great for size)
Leg curls = 2-3 sets of 8-10
Calves = whatever you wish.
When you're able to complete all the sets at the prescribed reps...up the weight by the smallest increment possible.
Like everyone has said, there are several ways to do things, and several variables that have to be looked at. Pick a program/write one out...try it...take notes on progress or lack thereof and make changes accordingly.
Best to you man...I know trying to grow can be frustrating at times. It does make the successes sweeter though.
11-23-2011, 10:34 PM
I just have to say that the feedback that I have been getting alone is inspiring me. Thanks for the real good answers to the question. There really is so meany ways to work the muscles. Thanks I look forward to more feedback.
11-23-2011, 11:16 PM
right now im having my fitness athlete do 3 weeks,low reps 5-8, then 1 week high rep 15-25, then 2 weeks 8-12, then 1 week deload (20-30 reps 2 exercises each body part (my version)), then start it all over again
for her itll work, will it work for you? maybe. best thing is trial and error, hit all muscle fibers, stimulate as much tissue as possible without over doing it. and having ample rest/ recover days.
on weak muscle groups on a bulk, id have one cheat meal post workout of the muscle your lacking in most. itll help bring it up a tad.
11-23-2011, 11:41 PM
Good idea with that cheat meal. Yeah so many ways. I just think changing everything up every so often is a main factor as well.
11-23-2011, 11:53 PM
i dont like new things, at this point in lifting the things i am doing worked for me the things im not doing didnt.
11-24-2011, 06:42 AM
I'm afraid the things I'm not doing, are the things I should be doing. In your mind your saying to yourself you don't need it, but is that one of your obsticals, or mine. I think there is a Lot of will power questing there.
So when you change up your reps, do you change the weight also? Do you stick to a set weight, or sets of weight for the different reps? sound confusing of the muscles but confusing also, or interesting. Don't really know. Haven't tried the work out.
11-24-2011, 08:44 AM
11-24-2011, 09:17 AM
Reps and weight are relevant to body type and predomination of type of muscle fiber. Ectomorphs do best with high reps. Training consistently in the same mode is what creates results and is what determines if your type of training is working. Switching between styles frequently is counterproductive IMO. Once a guy finds what works and what doesnt you can gain and maintain. A person reaches a limit on how much muscle can be built and kept, without androgens. IMO hypertrophy training works for everybody, regardless of somatotype. Thats why 3x10, 3 times weekly is the basic template, its limits overtraing, minimizes injury and enhances muscle growth/maintenence.
11-24-2011, 10:05 AM
I can agree with this.Originally Posted by Knowbull
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