[lavathrow]

Ya I am 35. Were did you get your info from. I want to write more but on the run.

i know a guy whose only workout is this..

he takes a barbell with a 45 on each side..

from the ground he does 5 reps of standing presses.. then immediately does 5 reps of front squats.. then immediately does another 5 reps of standing presses.. then does 5 reps of back squats..

he does 10 sets of this.. then gets on the stair master for 20mins on a high interval..

this is done 4x per week..

no supps.. no gear.. just good eating and consistency..

this dude is jacked beyond most on these boards who are geared/ph'd up to the gills..

[matt h]

I'm a ectomorph, extremely hard gainer,always have been. What is a good consistent diet I should follow. Also should it be every two and a half hours or three in between meals.

[tilldeath]

you guys ever been to harlem, brooklyn, queens?

go there, then go to any corner lot city park.. there you will see guys jacked on just bodyweight exercises.. no gear, no supplements.. just consistency and good eating..

many of these guys put everyone on these boards to shame.. without the loads of crap supplements, training timing, lift counts, blah blah blah..

look at people in prison, it can be done. However it's not for everyone and everyone can't put in that much time. Supplements aren't an answer just an extra tool, same with timing etc. Do what works for you, but don't give people crap because they think or act differently from you.

[tilldeath]

I'm a ectomorph, extremely hard gainer,always have been. What is a good consistent diet I should follow. Also should it be every two and a half hours or three in between meals.

Don't get hung up on when to eat, just eat six clean meals divided out so you are eating more calories than you're burning.

[AaronJP1]

look at people in prison, it can be done. However it's not for everyone and everyone can't put in that much time. Supplements aren't an answer just an extra tool, same with timing etc. Do what works for you, but don't give people crap because they think or act differently from you.

Right.
I always look at prisoners...
I would guess they only get 3 meals a day...?

Then their protein count can't be that high, could it be because they consistently lift?

[Big boy D]

Right.
I always look at prisoners...
I would guess they only get 3 meals a day...?

Then their protein count can't be that high, could it be because they consistently lift?

We are not very worried about how you get big in prison. But to let ya know a little I know of that subject. In prison the meals are mostly carb based so if you eat it and don't work out you would get fat. I think using the carbs to fuel the muscle is what happens there. Also most of the big ones were fat and cut it up. Also from what I'm told you can get most anything in prison including steroids. Maybe even protein. How many years of lifting do you need before you get ripped or bigger then normal? A ten year bid should do it for any one. Maybe you should try it out a little. Go do some time and let us know. Might not be the best way, but?

[Big boy D]

you guys ever been to harlem, brooklyn, queens?

go there, then go to any corner lot city park.. there you will see guys jacked on just bodyweight exercises.. no gear, no supplements.. just consistency and good eating..

many of these guys put everyone on these boards to shame.. without the loads of crap supplements, training timing, lift counts, blah blah blah..

What's your deal bro? Just sounds like a bad attitude to me. What are you here for if you want to talk about other guys on the street selling crack. Did you ask them what there diet is? We don't need negative blah blah blah that your bringing. Go do push ups and bug out if that's what you have to offer because this is for real for these guys on this forum. Further more from what I have learned over time is that when people discuss others the way you do, they need some help also. Why not try to learn something instead of tooting your horn? Are you one of the guys on the corner? Didn't think so. If its that easy why don't you have ripped up muscles? Ohhhh nooooo!!! Lol!

[jerrycollie]

So I can go to the gym and work out for hours on all the different muscles. Work out to exhaustion for five days straight. Then next two days is almost like coma. And the next week is a light one. Should I just stick to 3-4sets and call it good and feel better? Or rip it up? Do you gain more mass from killing yourself or just doing reps?

Okay: First of all there are 2 types of muscle fibers, fast twitch and slow twitch. Slow twitch fibers are aerobic; they use oxygen and burn fatty acids. They are used for endurance such as long distance running (think skinny-looking muscles). It is the fast twitch muscle fibers you are trying to grow for muscle size. Fast twitch muscles are anaerobic and burn the sugar glycogen; so sugar up before your workout. Ordinary activities, including running do not work the fast twitch muscle fibers. It takes heavy weights to activate them. This means either you lift your max weight once; or you lift 2 to 12 reps until you cannot do another one. Furthermore, the only time all of the fast twitch muscle fibers are all firing is when the muscle is in full contraction. This means most of your lifting action is useless, until you get your muscle into the fully contracted mode. Even this is not always enough; because in many exercises, such as presses, when you get your muscle into full contraction, your arm is locked out and there is no stress left on your muscle. You should look for exercises which put maximum stress on the muscle when it is in the fully contracted position. Take the bench press for example. Instead of full motion, just lift the bar out of its craddle and hold it up just under lock-out until the bar forces its way back down into its craddle. Another example, standing upright, bend forward a little and curl the weight up to your chest; hold it there in the fully contracted position until the bar forces its way back down.
IMHO, if you have fully exercised your muscle until failure, there is no need to do more than one set of each exercise. The growth signal (acetyl choline) has been sent to your muscle fibers telling them to grow. Don't forget to take a choline pill before your workout. Also, take 200 mg of caffeine (or a cup of coffee). The caffeine will increase the time the growth signal (acetyl choline) lasts on your muscle fiber. Keep in mind there is only one muscle growth signal regardless of who you are. It is also the same signal for all animals. However, different people will grow muscle at different rates, and reach different sizes. Part of the problem is the internal enzyme myostatin: It works to limit muscle growth. Without myostatin in our genetic code, we would all look like the Hunk, without having to work out. (But what fun would it be if everyone was muscled up?)
A workout tears down muscle tissue. You need time for repair. (If you cut your finger, it does not heal the next day). If you are sore the next day (probably), you should not workout again until the soreness is gone. Once the soreness is gone, the muscle is repaired and back to where it was before. However, now it needs an extra day to grow bigger. The mistake is to think more is better. Soon you are working out every day, 10 hours per day, 10 sets each; and wondering why you are not growing bigger. Yes, you are gaining endurance, if that is what you are after; but I think you want size instead.
Be careful; and workout slowly without jerking. It is easy to tear a joint or ligament with heavy weights; and you will be down for a couple of months. If you do get a strain, avoid working out until it heals (no more pain). A couple of asprin at night will help. Joints are made of gristle; so eat the gristle on your chicken bones and eat gelatin deserts (gelatin is made from gristle). You might like a cup of hot Jello for breakfast.
As for pills: They are not really necessary. Do they work? Some do, like the anabolics; but I do not recommend them. A multivitamin pill should be enough.
Keep a diary of your workouts: Dates, exercises, weights, reps, sets. You can see your progress; and this will help motivate you. Microsoft Accel works good for this.
Oh yes, don't forget to do a little cardio once a week; even a weightlifter should be able to run around the block without having a heart attack!

[dialtone]

There is an interesting article on T-Nation titled "Training for Muscle Mass" (I can't post a link, but go have a look, a very recent post). In it the author comments on a number of different, yet common training splits/plans and his "pricipals of a good training program". It is a good read with some food for thought, but he keeps driving home the point that training muscle groups once per week is not optimal, which happens to be the basis for many 3, 4 and 5-day splits.

However, I (respectively) take contention with the idea that this type of training is "not optimal". Now, I'm definately not an expert and I wouldn't even know where to find any studies (please correct me if I am wrong on anything in this post), but from my own experience (using a 5-day split), and the experience of others I know (using 4 and 5-day splits), the best results have come from the "once per week" approach.

5-day splits are primarily done to work one muscle group per week. This allows you to break down the muscle to the fullest and allow a full seven days before working that muscle again to fully recover (the article argues if this much time is needed). We all know recovery is key in bodybuilding and this approach will help prevent overtraining from working a muscle too much in one week. Also, training a muscle group once a week allows you to use high volume training and not worry about having not enough time for recovery. Training a muscle group twice a week during a 5-day split is possible, but I would'nt recommend it because it leaves little room for recovery. In my personal opinion, without a doubt, training muscles once a week during 5-day splits are better than training it twice a week. People who will benefit the least from this kind of training will be those whose aim is only to gain strength, such as the power lifters. Working out five days a week is calling out for overtraining for power lifters since they will not have enough time for recovery.

I have been running a 5-day split for about a year now, although today it doesn't resemble what I originally started with. It took a few months to get the adjustments to diet, exercises, sets/reps, workout order, muscle group orders and perodization set up, but once I found the right combination (at least for me) progression has been constant wether bulking or dieting. I find the 5-day split can be used effectively for both mass gaining and fat loss training. My training split looks like this:


Day 1: Legs/Abs
Day 2: Chest/Calf's
Day 3: Back/Abs
Day 4: Shoulder/Calf's
Day 5: Bi's/Tri's/Abs
Day 6: Rest
Day 7: Rest

I settled on that order of muscle groups because training the lower body is probably the most taxing for my body. Therefore it is crucial to train it first in the beginning of each week to ensure that the workout is done while my body is still fresh. Also, it's more optimal to space shoulder and arm days as far as possible from chest day to allow the joints and triceps to recover properly.

As for the set/rep range, I train both heavy and light to target all the muscle fibers available to allow optimal growth during recovery period. I also use various techniques that prove to be useful, such as supramaximal hold, heavy eccentrics, rest-pause, heavy lifting and ballistic lifting etc… I switch either the main exercise or technique (or both) after 3 weeks or so.

One thing I don't do, but really should is go 5-days in a row without a break. Ideally I would like to have a day off in bewteen day 1 and day 5 somewhere, but I go Monday to Friday only as weekends are family time (which means the wife won't let me out of the house!).

I am really interested to hear any thoughts and opinions on the above!

[wayneworchel]

I'm 6.1in male 50 tomorrow and since 18 when I stopped grow I have weighed 120 pounds. I have tried over the years to put on weight don't happen doctors say its my matabalisam anyone have any I deers

[dialtone]

Right.
I always look at prisoners...
I would guess they only get 3 meals a day...?

Then their protein count can't be that high, could it be because they consistently lift?

I have seen a documentary that touched on this. Roids are very prevalent in the prison system, just like narcotics and any other contraband are. Likewise, they mentioned that many of the roid users in prison have very long sentences (if not already life) and feel they don't have much to loose, resulting in abusing themselves with all sorts of substances.

Actually, I would be curious to see what a typical "prison cycle" would be! haha!

[fadi]

Not sure what is facinating about prisons, but if you guys so interested in it, there is a book about prison training on Amazon.

Supplements are just that. They supplement your nutrition. They can tilt things in your favor in some cases, such as cortisol reduction, increasing the intake of some amino acids, or fats, act as an anabolic agent in the body and so on. Keeping the gains in both size and strength is the challenging part.

People get overly obsessed with so much details that they miss the big picture. I also find younger guys unwilling to try certain things to figure out what works for them, or they do not pay attention and keep logs to know what worked and what did not. I know I was that way when I was younger.

Now I try new things for few weeks to see if I am responding well to it then tweak something else and so on. I know my current routine is not optimized and still trying to figure out what to fix/change. I am also paying a lot of attention to form for example, not locking out, steady tempo, sticking with the range that is working the specific muscle and so on.

In the end, there are many solid programs out there and they all will produce results. Some of them will add mass with no details since they only concentrate on the major lifts, but once you have the strength and mass, you can add accessories to the missing pieces.

[AaronJP1]

Not sure what is facinating about prisons, but if you guys so interested in it, there is a book about prison training on Amazon.

Supplements are just that. They supplement your nutrition. They can tilt things in your favor in some cases, such as cortisol reduction, increasing the intake of some amino acids, or fats, act as an anabolic agent in the body and so on. Keeping the gains in both size and strength is the challenging part.

People get overly obsessed with so much details that they miss the big picture. I also find younger guys unwilling to try certain things to figure out what works for them, or they do not pay attention and keep logs to know what worked and what did not. I know I was that way when I was younger.

Now I try new things for few weeks to see if I am responding well to it then tweak something else and so on. I know my current routine is not optimized and still trying to figure out what to fix/change. I am also paying a lot of attention to form for example, not locking out, steady tempo, sticking with the range that is working the specific muscle and so on.

In the end, there are many solid programs out there and they all will produce results. Some of them will add mass with no details since they only concentrate on the major lifts, but once you have the strength and mass, you can add accessories to the missing pieces.

What's the book called?

The reason I brought up prisons is because I was just curious as to what makes them grow.
I mean I guess they would be BB material but they get pretty damn close.
I'm sure (not 100%, but 95%) they have/take all these new fancy supplements we do and I couldn't picture them with a tub of protein & shaker downing some hydrowhey
I could be wrong.

[fadi]

What's the book called?

The reason I brought up prisons is because I was just curious as to what makes them grow.
I mean I guess they would be BB material but they get pretty damn close.
I'm sure (not 100%, but 95%) they have/take all these new fancy supplements we do and I couldn't picture them with a tub of protein & shaker downing some hydrowhey
I could be wrong.

I don't recall the name, I saw it while browsing for bodybuilding books on amazon. If I run into it again, I will post is name.

[AaronJP1]

I don't recall the name, I saw it while browsing for bodybuilding books on amazon. If I run into it again, I will post is name.

Thx.

[Big boy D]

There is an interesting article on T-Nation titled "Training for Muscle Mass" (I can't post a link, but go have a look, a very recent post). In it the author comments on a number of different, yet common training splits/plans and his "pricipals of a good training program". It is a good read with some food for thought, but he keeps driving home the point that training muscle groups once per week is not optimal, which happens to be the basis for many 3, 4 and 5-day splits.

However, I (respectively) take contention with the idea that this type of training is "not optimal". Now, I'm definately not an expert and I wouldn't even know where to find any studies (please correct me if I am wrong on anything in this post), but from my own experience (using a 5-day split), and the experience of others I know (using 4 and 5-day splits), the best results have come from the "once per week" approach.

5-day splits are primarily done to work one muscle group per week. This allows you to break down the muscle to the fullest and allow a full seven days before working that muscle again to fully recover (the article argues if this much time is needed). We all know recovery is key in bodybuilding and this approach will help prevent overtraining from working a muscle too much in one week. Also, training a muscle group once a week allows you to use high volume training and not worry about having not enough time for recovery. Training a muscle group twice a week during a 5-day split is possible, but I would'nt recommend it because it leaves little room for recovery. In my personal opinion, without a doubt, training muscles once a week during 5-day splits are better than training it twice a week. People who will benefit the least from this kind of training will be those whose aim is only to gain strength, such as the power lifters. Working out five days a week is calling out for overtraining for power lifters since they will not have enough time for recovery.

I have been running a 5-day split for about a year now, although today it doesn't resemble what I originally started with. It took a few months to get the adjustments to diet, exercises, sets/reps, workout order, muscle group orders and perodization set up, but once I found the right combination (at least for me) progression has been constant wether bulking or dieting. I find the 5-day split can be used effectively for both mass gaining and fat loss training. My training split looks like this:

Day 1: Legs/Abs
Day 2: Chest/Calf's
Day 3: Back/Abs
Day 4: Shoulder/Calf's
Day 5: Bi's/Tri's/Abs
Day 6: Rest
Day 7: Rest

I settled on that order of muscle groups because training the lower body is probably the most taxing for my body. Therefore it is crucial to train it first in the beginning of each week to ensure that the workout is done while my body is still fresh. Also, it's more optimal to space shoulder and arm days as far as possible from chest day to allow the joints and triceps to recover properly.

As for the set/rep range, I train both heavy and light to target all the muscle fibers available to allow optimal growth during recovery period. I also use various techniques that prove to be useful, such as supramaximal hold, heavy eccentrics, rest-pause, heavy lifting and ballistic lifting etc... I switch either the main exercise or technique (or both) after 3 weeks or so.

One thing I don't do, but really should is go 5-days in a row without a break. Ideally I would like to have a day off in bewteen day 1 and day 5 somewhere, but I go Monday to Friday only as weekends are family time (which means the wife won't let me out of the house!).

I am really interested to hear any thoughts and opinions on the above!

Hey bud! Thanks for the post!
I like what your saying here. The only thing that have just kinda realized lately is the recovery of muscle fibers. What I am saying is this. Basically your work out looks like this, legs,chest,back,shoulders,bi's +tri's. Now this is something I have tried to fig out for some time now. Hear me out. After you have done your chest and back you hit your shoulders, but your shoulders have been hit the last two days really, you see what I'm saying. Then you hit you bi's and tri's the next day, when really you have worked them all week. So how do you get optimal power and recovery out of each muscle? I think the routine needs to be put into a four day split so you do get that day off on wen. Like put day 2+3 together and 4+5 together leave day one to itself and then do a core day. I think you will get better results. I really don't understand the one muscle a week thing. I have done it for a long time but I always felt like I was a couple days off on getting the full potential out of each muscle. After five days it's feels like the muscle is just on hold. Also it affected my other work outs because as we know the muscles all work together. So I would kill one muscle and then need to use it still for the next few days. In my experience I feel you need to go heavy when the area your working on is ready. Why fly with one wing injured. You see what I'm saying. It has taken me a while to figure this out. Also people say they have reached there max or Plato. You need to Plato on a Certain work out you are doing, at that time you change to a different work out of the same muscle group, maybe a work out your not so strong in and Plato on that exercise. Basically thats the deal as I have come to see it. Heavy sets of no more then 12 and no less then 4. Of course that heavy push of one is nice but injury is your Demon. Watch for that the most. It has hurt my gains more then anything. I think the order goes like this, injury,diet,lifting,stretching ,goals. I hope this helps my friend.
-Big Boy D

[lavathrow]

What's your deal bro? Just sounds like a bad attitude to me. What are you here for if you want to talk about other guys on the street selling crack. Did you ask them what there diet is? We don't need negative blah blah blah that your bringing. Go do push ups and bug out if that's what you have to offer because this is for real for these guys on this forum. Further more from what I have learned over time is that when people discuss others the way you do, they need some help also. Why not try to learn something instead of tooting your horn? Are you one of the guys on the corner? Didn't think so. If its that easy why don't you have ripped up muscles? Ohhhh nooooo!!! Lol!

i did come off a little harsh.. please excuse me.. i guess my point is, as amateur lifters we focus on everything else but the basics.. i use the poor youths within the inner city who have fantastic physiques as an example of hard work being the key...

and yes.. i am very lean and muscular.. over 6'5 265...

have a good day.

[Big boy D]

i did come off a little harsh.. please excuse me.. i guess my point is, as amateur lifters we focus on everything else but the basics.. i use the poor youths within the inner city who have fantastic physiques as an example of hard work being the key...

and yes.. i am very lean and muscular.. over 6'5 265...

have a good day.

No that's cool bro. We all say things sometimes that just comes out wrong. Really though there secret really lies in there diet. They eat mostly drugs. The best diet I have seen is drugs weather its roids or the white stuff. I think almost any one with a good diet is going to look in shape. Good diet and throw in a dumb bell, your doing better then, well, these days 90% of Americans.
I can come of as a butt head sometimes also bro. No big deal really. What's your take on the lifting for gains bro?
Your a good size boy. Always been working out or .... I am 6'2" 260. If I didn't lift I bet I would be 225-230, or just fat at 240. Haha! Hey man be good or good at it!
-Big Boy D

[supraseed48]

Hey bud! Thanks for the post!
I like what your saying here. The only thing that have just kinda realized lately is the recovery of muscle fibers. What I am saying is this. Basically your work out looks like this, legs,chest,back,shoulders,bi's +tri's. Now this is something I have tried to fig out for some time now. Hear me out. After you have done your chest and back you hit your shoulders, but your shoulders have been hit the last two days really, you see what I'm saying. Then you hit you bi's and tri's the next day, when really you have worked them all week. So how do you get optimal power and recovery out of each muscle? I think the routine needs to be put into a four day split so you do get that day off on wen. Like put day 2+3 together and 4+5 together leave day one to itself and then do a core day. I think you will get better results. I really don't understand the one muscle a week thing. I have done it for a long time but I always felt like I was a couple days off on getting the full potential out of each muscle. After five days it's feels like the muscle is just on hold. Also it affected my other work outs because as we know the muscles all work together. So I would kill one muscle and then need to use it still for the next few days. In my experience I feel you need to go heavy when the area your working on is ready. Why fly with one wing injured. You see what I'm saying. It has taken me a while to figure this out. Also people say they have reached there max or Plato. You need to Plato on a Certain work out you are doing, at that time you change to a different work out of the same muscle group, maybe a work out your not so strong in and Plato on that exercise. Basically thats the deal as I have come to see it. Heavy sets of no more then 12 and no less then 4. Of course that heavy push of one is nice but injury is your Demon. Watch for that the most. It has hurt my gains more then anything. I think the order goes like this, injury,diet,lifting,stretching ,goals. I hope this helps my friend.
-Big Boy D

I'm really following you on your theory about his split and recovery. I have fallen into the trap of hitting one muscle per day as well. For some reason I have always felt like I can blast one muscle group better as opposed to cruising to conserve enough energy to hit 2 or more bp's enough for growth. I used adhere to more of an instinctive training program than any. It let me train according to how my body felt as well as keeping my muscles guessing. Usually got decent results from it. But I have also found that some kind of structured program holds me more accountable to hitting everything equally. What does the recovery look like to u on a split like this?

Back-Bi's
Chest-Tri's-calves
Off/Cardio-abs
Quad-Hams
Off/Cardio-abs
Delt-Trap-calves
Off/Cardio-abs
Repeat

Like most gym rats It's hard for me to do a 4-3 as opposed to a 5-2. But spreading out corresponding working parts might enable one to go heavier on larger groups giving them more recovery for growth.
???

[fadi]

Thx.

Found it. It is called Convict Conditioning. There are two books, 1 and 2. It is body weight workouts such as pushups, pullups, etc.

[dylandufault]

All these 12 pgs of posts were actually really helpful for someone starting weight training like myself. Thanks all!!!

[Blade Icewood]

gl reaching ur goal u can do it!!

[FADAWN]

Eat like a mad man. I dont mean eat chicken fish and all that I mean get a large pizza cover it with olive oil and kill it. Look into 70's big.

[BigShadow]

Here how I've been approaching it. Let me know what u guys think.

Mon- off
Tues - chest and tris
Wedn- back and bis
Thurs- legs shoulder
Fri-off
Sat- chest tris
Sun-back bis
Also incorporate drop sets

Then repeat but starting tues legs and shoulders. I run this for 2 weeks then this.....

Mon-off
Tues- chest
Wedn-back
Thur-legs
Fri-off
Sat- arms (super set tris and bis)
Sun- shoulders

Then repeat for 2 weeks. I've made some really nice gains and running the 2 weeks one body part a day allows me to recover and make gains. The biggest problem I see that most guys can't figure out why they can't make gains is they are not eating enough. Also post workout you should be consuming upwards of 50 grams of fast digesting carbs and 30 grams of whey. I personally like hitting up a big glass of chocolate milk it has almost 50 grams of carbs to spike insulin and push those nutrients into your muscle bellies and the whey casein combo is nice to. I also run my workouts with no more then 45 sec rest. It doesn't seem like much but keeping blood flow in the muscle bellies will make u grow. Plus has anyone ever checked there hr during a bad ass leg workout ? With a 30 sec rest your heart rate stays elevated which allows you to burn bf. almost along the line of ct.

[Masciaman]

big boy d 3-4 sets will be whatever you make it, like you should always try to beat your last workout..say you bench 200 for a certain amount of reps, beat it your next workout with he same weight or go up in weight for the same weight to rep ratio as you did with the lower weight and youll see good gains..