Lifting for gains

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    Big Boy D, i went to doctor to ask about nutritions about genetic predisposition. I got diggestive problems with chicken and turkey. I can easly diggest fish and meat faster than chicken and turkey. For that reason im eating a lot. And i know its look so much but it is working. My ancestors are nomad and i think this is effect my genetics like that.
    I want to add last week i went to check up for everything because my family thing that i got some problems. I got my results 4 days ago and im really perfect Im still eating 2 pound meat everyday. My blood analisis are so good Just try this nutrition plan for 2 weeks, if you dont like it you can change it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    I got a program that trains 3 days a week...

    Shoulders & Legs
    Chest and Tris
    Back & Bis.

    Keep moving fast and get it done quick.

    Everything works differently for every person.

    I like that routine because, 1)I work a lot so 3 days is a nice time saver for me.
    2) full body work outs are exhausting to me, just can't seem to get it done & part of it is because I usually hit a few more reps/exercises and it gets me tired quicker and I usually want to be out in under an hour. 3) the 5/6 day a week 1 muscle group deal doesn't work if for people that don't absolutely destroy that muscle group, basically the gains take longer to come I think personally.

    What I posted above is 1 day followed by 2 days off.... It's easy if u want to carb up or fast and/or get cardio and abs in on the off days so I think people need to try many styles and routines and see what fits them best.

    I just switched to the same routine a week ago,totally stimulated my muscles. I am sore in places I have not been sore in quite awhile, and I can feel the density changing. I don't take the two days off like OP, but I do hit it hard and get my fair share of rest. The change was like a breath of life. I definitly feel like it was plateau buster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by draft91
    Big Boy D, i went to doctor to ask about nutritions about genetic predisposition. I got diggestive problems with chicken and turkey. I can easly diggest fish and meat faster than chicken and turkey. For that reason im eating a lot. And i know its look so much but it is working. My ancestors are nomad and i think this is effect my genetics like that.
    I want to add last week i went to check up for everything because my family thing that i got some problems. I got my results 4 days ago and im really perfect Im still eating 2 pound meat everyday. My blood analisis are so good Just try this nutrition plan for 2 weeks, if you dont like it you can change it.
    That's funny I can't eat a lot of red meat. It binds me up and gives me gas bad. I eat mostly chicken,fish, Greek yogurt. I put red meat in once or twice a week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTB

    I just switched to the same routine a week ago,totally stimulated my muscles. I am sore in places I have not been sore in quite awhile, and I can feel the density changing. I don't take the two days off like OP, but I do hit it hard and get my fair share of rest. The change was like a breath of life. I definitly feel like it was plateau buster.
    Right.
    I switched again to 4 days a week/ upper and lower body. I think I will switch back to this 3 day a week....

    Where did u locate this routine GTB?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Right.
    I switched again to 4 days a week/ upper and lower body. I think I will switch back to this 3 day a week....

    Where did u locate this routine GTB?
    It was on a forum somewhere. I am a firm believe in muscle confusuion. I try to change things up every 5-6 weeks. Nothing original, I just pick things up from guys at the gym, I read all the time.I am older so I am into isolation exercises right now to start ourt my workouts. I just started doing spider curls to get blood to my biceps, and they are blowing up. I switch up high/low reps each week and I Cucle each exercise so that I can hit it first once a week.
    I did Chest/tri's tonight.
    Incline db flys 3/15 50lbs
    wide grip flat bench,3/30 155 lbs
    incline db3/15 50lbs. I only have 50lbs dbs at home. I go heavy at the gym 85lbs 3/8

    Tri's
    Rope pull downs 1/20 40lbs 3 /15 60lbs
    Incline skull crushers(easier on the elbows) 3/8 95 lbs
    Kick backs 3/15 30lbs.

    I'll rotate exercises next week. I am open to suggestions, and wehatever has worked for you. I am here to learn
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    By no means am I a big guy, but here is what has been working for me lately. I do 4 a week, two way split:

    Monday: Back and Biceps (squat)
    Tuesday: Chest, Triceps, and Shoulders
    Wednesday: Off
    Thursday: Back and Biceps (deadlift)
    Friday: Chest, Triceps, and Shoulders
    Saturday: Off
    Sunday: Off

    I Try to keep my reps in the 6-8 range, but I try to beat my previous workout and work my reps up to 10-12 at which point I add weight which makes my reps drop back to the 6-8 range.
    For some reason, I do not recover well between sets so I take 30-60 sec rest, reduce the weight a little and go again to hit my rep ranges. Squats and Deadlifts take loner rest.

    What I have been thinking of changing is doing high reps, 10-12 range with lighter weight on Monday and Tuesday and heavier lower reps, 6-8 on Thursday and Friday. I may make that adjustment in February.

    Peviously I was doing the same split but doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I had major drop when I switched to 4 times a week, but recovered and back on track.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadi
    By no means am I a big guy, but here is what has been working for me lately. I do 4 a week, two way split:

    Monday: Back and Biceps (squat)
    Tuesday: Chest, Triceps, and Shoulders
    Wednesday: Off
    Thursday: Back and Biceps (deadlift)
    Friday: Chest, Triceps, and Shoulders
    Saturday: Off
    Sunday: Off

    I Try to keep my reps in the 6-8 range, but I try to beat my previous workout and work my reps up to 10-12 at which point I add weight which makes my reps drop back to the 6-8 range.
    For some reason, I do not recover well between sets so I take 30-60 sec rest, reduce the weight a little and go again to hit my rep ranges. Squats and Deadlifts take loner rest.

    What I have been thinking of changing is doing high reps, 10-12 range with lighter weight on Monday and Tuesday and heavier lower reps, 6-8 on Thursday and Friday. I may make that adjustment in February.

    Peviously I was doing the same split but doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I had major drop when I switched to 4 times a week, but recovered and back on track.
    That's what I would like to know.
    Some people say the same muscle twice a week is too much...

    Some do not. I see u hit it twice a week what's your theory?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    That's what I would like to know.
    Some people say the same muscle twice a week is too much...

    Some do not. I see u hit it twice a week what's your theory?
    Power lifters lift multiple times a week. 5x5 programs are full body workouts 3 times a week. DC training is twice in 9 days I believe. Lyne Norton has two way split and 2 days power.
    Training each body part more than once a week is fine. The problem is that you cannot do as many sets for each body part that you would if training once a week. But doing the big compound moves will add mass all over, and you add accessories to the remaining parts.

    My routine started as a DC training routine, but as I experimented with exercises, weights, rest, reps, and sets I am finding what is working for me. I still have questions and things I need to figure out, but working on them. Right now I am concentrating on form and tempo trying to get the most from each rep.
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    [QUOTE=AaronJP1;3154747]That's what I would like to know.
    Some people say the same muscle twice a week is too much...

    Some do not. I see u hit it twice a week what's your theory?[/QUOTE

    I do not hit one body part with same w/o twice in a week. I am yet to see the benefits of that type of routine. I usually hit each body parts once every five days or so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadi

    Power lifters lift multiple times a week. 5x5 programs are full body workouts 3 times a week. DC training is twice in 9 days I believe. Lyne Norton has two way split and 2 days power.
    Training each body part more than once a week is fine. The problem is that you cannot do as many sets for each body part that you would if training once a week. But doing the big compound moves will add mass all over, and you add accessories to the remaining parts.

    My routine started as a DC training routine, but as I experimented with exercises, weights, rest, reps, and sets I am finding what is working for me. I still have questions and things I need to figure out, but working on them. Right now I am concentrating on form and tempo trying to get the most from each rep.
    I am going to do the DC workout. I have looked into it a little. It seams like a good way to really build your body up. Any suggestions? I am doing the four day split. I have been jumping around workouts for the last two months trying to find something I like. I think this is it. Do you still use the base theory behind dc or did you just more or less go out on your own?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    I am going to do the DC workout. I have looked into it a little. It seams like a good way to really build your body up. Any suggestions? I am doing the four day split. I have been jumping around workouts for the last two months trying to find something I like. I think this is it. Do you still use the base theory behind dc or did you just more or less go out on your own?
    DC training is not kind to the older guys like myself, Dante also recommends not doing DC for those over 35 if not mistaken. by the way I have the DC DVD which is pretty good.

    I started with the DC routine and I really liked it. strength was going up quick with each workout. That is how I found out that I respond better to short rests and I respond better to more frequent workouts rather than once a week. I realized that I do not recover fast enough between sets so I increased my rest period to 30 seconds and if I cannot get all 3 sets with the same weight, I lower it on the second or third set.

    I have an A and B routine and I alternate them. I do more workouts per body part per session rather than alternate them as DC does, for example DC has A1 and A2 where I only do A but I would include the workouts I was doing in A1 and A2. I also concentrate on my weak areas and I put them first in my workout.

    Start with DC training and give it few weeks. It will be weird at first, but you get used to it quick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetinyguy View Post
    Ok since i feel i'm a prime candidate for the subject of "over-training" i'll shed some of my experience with it to help you out!

    First off, i don't believe you can over-train entirely BUT there is a point where you will need a few days off to recover/grow. ANYWAYS i have been busting the crap out of this "myth" for the past 5 months. I believe that with the intensity of the training reflects how much more you should be eating to FUEL yourself and the increased metabolism resulted from more frequent/longer training sessions.
    Currently i train Full body 3-4x a week like this.

    Day 1: Full Body (Chest/Back PRIORITIZED) That means i start with chest/back.
    Day 2. OFF completely
    Day 3: Full Body (Legs PRIORITIZED)
    Day 4: OFF completely
    Day 5: Full Body (Shoulders/Arms PRIORITIZED)
    Day 6: OFF completely
    Day 7: Either OFF depending on how i feel or i will do weak point training PRIORITIZED along with full body

    Sessions average approximately 3 hours and i consume a BCAA/Carb drink (like Size-On or something of the sort)
    I also consume around 1-1.5 gallons of water and have energy through the entire session (99% of the time)
    After a few weeks (being around 3-4) i may take a few extra rest days and consume higher calories.

    You can doubt this training all you want but there's a reason why the guys back in the day trained this way for a few reasons i can think of being:
    1. Burning more calories (Less reliance on boring cardio)
    2. Better cardiovascular conditioning (this is due to super-setting two different exercises for different muscles and taking minimal rest)
    3. Faster strength and size gains (Depending on your calorie intake VERY IMPORTANT)
    4. More practice with exercise movements.
    5. Improved Muscular conditioning.

    These are the effects I HAVE experienced, the biggest determining factor that will also determine your progress is the CALORIES. (The highest point i was taking in 6-7k calories for a few days then dropping back down to 5-6k) You cannot eat like a RABBIT and train this way effectively! Who knows though this may work for some and others may not work so well but it will almost always boil down to intake of food. Also when you start feeling very run down through sessions is the point where i would take a few days off until you feel 100%.

    Here's my older training log: thetinyguy's ALL OUT training log!! *CAUTION OVERTRAINING*

    When i first began trying to gain weight i made 2 choices: To train as hard as i possibly could and to eat as MUCH as i possibly could. I believe in high calorie/super high intensity training. During that period i trained 3 hours with a Chest/Back, Legs, Shoulders/Arms split and it worked really well i went from 170-240lbs over a winter and proved to myself what i was capable of. I went of the beaten path and tried something that seems to have been buried in the modern training world. Arnold and the golden era guys trained that way for a reason.

    Hope this helps you out man! Impossible is nothing and anything is achievable.
    70lb gain? How much of this was bodyfat in that one winter? Or did you have help?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadi View Post
    Power lifters lift multiple times a week. 5x5 programs are full body workouts 3 times a week. DC training is twice in 9 days I believe. Lyne Norton has two way split and 2 days power.
    Training each body part more than once a week is fine. The problem is that you cannot do as many sets for each body part that you would if training once a week. But doing the big compound moves will add mass all over, and you add accessories to the remaining parts.

    My routine started as a DC training routine, but as I experimented with exercises, weights, rest, reps, and sets I am finding what is working for me. I still have questions and things I need to figure out, but working on them. Right now I am concentrating on form and tempo trying to get the most from each rep.
    I train WSC and that means twice a week for everything and im stronger and bigger then ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou321

    I train WSC and that means twice a week for everything and im stronger and bigger then ever.
    So your saying you train 2 times in 7 days full body? So you take 3 days off one on? That sounds like you would recover well but is that all? Do you do cardio or anything between? Also what's bigger then ever?
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    I lift one body part a week, except every 4-5th week then I throw in a twice a week'er. Also I take one week off every 6 months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilldeath
    I lift one body part a week, except every 4-5th week then I throw in a twice a week'er. Also I take one week off every 6 months.
    Your saying once a week you go?
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    I noticed today my thread is is the news letter. Cool! I think it's the question we are all after. "how do I get the most out of my hard work" there is so much to learn in this sport. It is for sure the sport of all sports. This site has helped me in so many ways. Thank you guys for all that you add. There are many ways to lift, there's only you that can make it happen. Please continue to add the knowledge so that maybe some one will have the gains they cry for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadi

    DC training is not kind to the older guys like myself, Dante also recommends not doing DC for those over 35 if not mistaken. by the way I have the DC DVD which is pretty good.

    I started with the DC routine and I really liked it. strength was going up quick with each workout. That is how I found out that I respond better to short rests and I respond better to more frequent workouts rather than once a week. I realized that I do not recover fast enough between sets so I increased my rest period to 30 seconds and if I cannot get all 3 sets with the same weight, I lower it on the second or third set.

    I have an A and B routine and I alternate them. I do more workouts per body part per session rather than alternate them as DC does, for example DC has A1 and A2 where I only do A but I would include the workouts I was doing in A1 and A2. I also concentrate on my weak areas and I put them first in my workout.

    Start with DC training and give it few weeks. It will be weird at first, but you get used to it quick.
    Ya I am 35. Were did you get your info from. I want to write more but on the run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    Your saying once a week you go?
    nope, I lift sat, sun, mon, tues, and wed. Each bodypart once, then every 4th-5th week I lift each bodypart twice.
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    you guys ever been to harlem, brooklyn, queens?

    go there, then go to any corner lot city park.. there you will see guys jacked on just bodyweight exercises.. no gear, no supplements.. just consistency and good eating..

    many of these guys put everyone on these boards to shame.. without the loads of crap supplements, training timing, lift counts, blah blah blah..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    Ya I am 35. Were did you get your info from. I want to write more but on the run.
    i know a guy whose only workout is this..

    he takes a barbell with a 45 on each side..

    from the ground he does 5 reps of standing presses.. then immediately does 5 reps of front squats.. then immediately does another 5 reps of standing presses.. then does 5 reps of back squats..

    he does 10 sets of this.. then gets on the stair master for 20mins on a high interval..

    this is done 4x per week..

    no supps.. no gear.. just good eating and consistency..

    this dude is jacked beyond most on these boards who are geared/ph'd up to the gills..
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    I'm a ectomorph, extremely hard gainer,always have been. What is a good consistent diet I should follow. Also should it be every two and a half hours or three in between meals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavathrow View Post
    you guys ever been to harlem, brooklyn, queens?

    go there, then go to any corner lot city park.. there you will see guys jacked on just bodyweight exercises.. no gear, no supplements.. just consistency and good eating..

    many of these guys put everyone on these boards to shame.. without the loads of crap supplements, training timing, lift counts, blah blah blah..
    look at people in prison, it can be done. However it's not for everyone and everyone can't put in that much time. Supplements aren't an answer just an extra tool, same with timing etc. Do what works for you, but don't give people crap because they think or act differently from you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt h View Post
    I'm a ectomorph, extremely hard gainer,always have been. What is a good consistent diet I should follow. Also should it be every two and a half hours or three in between meals.
    Don't get hung up on when to eat, just eat six clean meals divided out so you are eating more calories than you're burning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilldeath
    look at people in prison, it can be done. However it's not for everyone and everyone can't put in that much time. Supplements aren't an answer just an extra tool, same with timing etc. Do what works for you, but don't give people crap because they think or act differently from you.
    Right.
    I always look at prisoners...
    I would guess they only get 3 meals a day...?

    Then their protein count can't be that high, could it be because they consistently lift?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    Right.
    I always look at prisoners...
    I would guess they only get 3 meals a day...?

    Then their protein count can't be that high, could it be because they consistently lift?
    We are not very worried about how you get big in prison. But to let ya know a little I know of that subject. In prison the meals are mostly carb based so if you eat it and don't work out you would get fat. I think using the carbs to fuel the muscle is what happens there. Also most of the big ones were fat and cut it up. Also from what I'm told you can get most anything in prison including steroids. Maybe even protein. How many years of lifting do you need before you get ripped or bigger then normal? A ten year bid should do it for any one. Maybe you should try it out a little. Go do some time and let us know. Might not be the best way, but?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavathrow
    you guys ever been to harlem, brooklyn, queens?

    go there, then go to any corner lot city park.. there you will see guys jacked on just bodyweight exercises.. no gear, no supplements.. just consistency and good eating..

    many of these guys put everyone on these boards to shame.. without the loads of crap supplements, training timing, lift counts, blah blah blah..
    What's your deal bro? Just sounds like a bad attitude to me. What are you here for if you want to talk about other guys on the street selling crack. Did you ask them what there diet is? We don't need negative blah blah blah that your bringing. Go do push ups and bug out if that's what you have to offer because this is for real for these guys on this forum. Further more from what I have learned over time is that when people discuss others the way you do, they need some help also. Why not try to learn something instead of tooting your horn? Are you one of the guys on the corner? Didn't think so. If its that easy why don't you have ripped up muscles? Ohhhh nooooo!!! Lol!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    So I can go to the gym and work out for hours on all the different muscles. Work out to exhaustion for five days straight. Then next two days is almost like coma. And the next week is a light one. Should I just stick to 3-4sets and call it good and feel better? Or rip it up? Do you gain more mass from killing yourself or just doing reps?
    Okay: First of all there are 2 types of muscle fibers, fast twitch and slow twitch. Slow twitch fibers are aerobic; they use oxygen and burn fatty acids. They are used for endurance such as long distance running (think skinny-looking muscles). It is the fast twitch muscle fibers you are trying to grow for muscle size. Fast twitch muscles are anaerobic and burn the sugar glycogen; so sugar up before your workout. Ordinary activities, including running do not work the fast twitch muscle fibers. It takes heavy weights to activate them. This means either you lift your max weight once; or you lift 2 to 12 reps until you cannot do another one. Furthermore, the only time all of the fast twitch muscle fibers are all firing is when the muscle is in full contraction. This means most of your lifting action is useless, until you get your muscle into the fully contracted mode. Even this is not always enough; because in many exercises, such as presses, when you get your muscle into full contraction, your arm is locked out and there is no stress left on your muscle. You should look for exercises which put maximum stress on the muscle when it is in the fully contracted position. Take the bench press for example. Instead of full motion, just lift the bar out of its craddle and hold it up just under lock-out until the bar forces its way back down into its craddle. Another example, standing upright, bend forward a little and curl the weight up to your chest; hold it there in the fully contracted position until the bar forces its way back down.
    IMHO, if you have fully exercised your muscle until failure, there is no need to do more than one set of each exercise. The growth signal (acetyl choline) has been sent to your muscle fibers telling them to grow. Don't forget to take a choline pill before your workout. Also, take 200 mg of caffeine (or a cup of coffee). The caffeine will increase the time the growth signal (acetyl choline) lasts on your muscle fiber. Keep in mind there is only one muscle growth signal regardless of who you are. It is also the same signal for all animals. However, different people will grow muscle at different rates, and reach different sizes. Part of the problem is the internal enzyme myostatin: It works to limit muscle growth. Without myostatin in our genetic code, we would all look like the Hunk, without having to work out. (But what fun would it be if everyone was muscled up?)
    A workout tears down muscle tissue. You need time for repair. (If you cut your finger, it does not heal the next day). If you are sore the next day (probably), you should not workout again until the soreness is gone. Once the soreness is gone, the muscle is repaired and back to where it was before. However, now it needs an extra day to grow bigger. The mistake is to think more is better. Soon you are working out every day, 10 hours per day, 10 sets each; and wondering why you are not growing bigger. Yes, you are gaining endurance, if that is what you are after; but I think you want size instead.
    Be careful; and workout slowly without jerking. It is easy to tear a joint or ligament with heavy weights; and you will be down for a couple of months. If you do get a strain, avoid working out until it heals (no more pain). A couple of asprin at night will help. Joints are made of gristle; so eat the gristle on your chicken bones and eat gelatin deserts (gelatin is made from gristle). You might like a cup of hot Jello for breakfast.
    As for pills: They are not really necessary. Do they work? Some do, like the anabolics; but I do not recommend them. A multivitamin pill should be enough.
    Keep a diary of your workouts: Dates, exercises, weights, reps, sets. You can see your progress; and this will help motivate you. Microsoft Accel works good for this.
    Oh yes, don't forget to do a little cardio once a week; even a weightlifter should be able to run around the block without having a heart attack!
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    There is an interesting article on T-Nation titled "Training for Muscle Mass" (I can't post a link, but go have a look, a very recent post). In it the author comments on a number of different, yet common training splits/plans and his "pricipals of a good training program". It is a good read with some food for thought, but he keeps driving home the point that training muscle groups once per week is not optimal, which happens to be the basis for many 3, 4 and 5-day splits.

    However, I (respectively) take contention with the idea that this type of training is "not optimal". Now, I'm definately not an expert and I wouldn't even know where to find any studies (please correct me if I am wrong on anything in this post), but from my own experience (using a 5-day split), and the experience of others I know (using 4 and 5-day splits), the best results have come from the "once per week" approach.

    5-day splits are primarily done to work one muscle group per week. This allows you to break down the muscle to the fullest and allow a full seven days before working that muscle again to fully recover (the article argues if this much time is needed). We all know recovery is key in bodybuilding and this approach will help prevent overtraining from working a muscle too much in one week. Also, training a muscle group once a week allows you to use high volume training and not worry about having not enough time for recovery. Training a muscle group twice a week during a 5-day split is possible, but I would'nt recommend it because it leaves little room for recovery. In my personal opinion, without a doubt, training muscles once a week during 5-day splits are better than training it twice a week. People who will benefit the least from this kind of training will be those whose aim is only to gain strength, such as the power lifters. Working out five days a week is calling out for overtraining for power lifters since they will not have enough time for recovery.

    I have been running a 5-day split for about a year now, although today it doesn't resemble what I originally started with. It took a few months to get the adjustments to diet, exercises, sets/reps, workout order, muscle group orders and perodization set up, but once I found the right combination (at least for me) progression has been constant wether bulking or dieting. I find the 5-day split can be used effectively for both mass gaining and fat loss training. My training split looks like this:


    Day 1: Legs/Abs
    Day 2: Chest/Calf's
    Day 3: Back/Abs
    Day 4: Shoulder/Calf's
    Day 5: Bi's/Tri's/Abs
    Day 6: Rest
    Day 7: Rest

    I settled on that order of muscle groups because training the lower body is probably the most taxing for my body. Therefore it is crucial to train it first in the beginning of each week to ensure that the workout is done while my body is still fresh. Also, it's more optimal to space shoulder and arm days as far as possible from chest day to allow the joints and triceps to recover properly.

    As for the set/rep range, I train both heavy and light to target all the muscle fibers available to allow optimal growth during recovery period. I also use various techniques that prove to be useful, such as supramaximal hold, heavy eccentrics, rest-pause, heavy lifting and ballistic lifting etc… I switch either the main exercise or technique (or both) after 3 weeks or so.

    One thing I don't do, but really should is go 5-days in a row without a break. Ideally I would like to have a day off in bewteen day 1 and day 5 somewhere, but I go Monday to Friday only as weekends are family time (which means the wife won't let me out of the house!).

    I am really interested to hear any thoughts and opinions on the above!
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    I'm 6.1in male 50 tomorrow and since 18 when I stopped grow I have weighed 120 pounds. I have tried over the years to put on weight don't happen doctors say its my matabalisam anyone have any I deers
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Right.
    I always look at prisoners...
    I would guess they only get 3 meals a day...?

    Then their protein count can't be that high, could it be because they consistently lift?
    I have seen a documentary that touched on this. Roids are very prevalent in the prison system, just like narcotics and any other contraband are. Likewise, they mentioned that many of the roid users in prison have very long sentences (if not already life) and feel they don't have much to loose, resulting in abusing themselves with all sorts of substances.

    Actually, I would be curious to see what a typical "prison cycle" would be! haha!
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    Not sure what is facinating about prisons, but if you guys so interested in it, there is a book about prison training on Amazon.

    Supplements are just that. They supplement your nutrition. They can tilt things in your favor in some cases, such as cortisol reduction, increasing the intake of some amino acids, or fats, act as an anabolic agent in the body and so on. Keeping the gains in both size and strength is the challenging part.

    People get overly obsessed with so much details that they miss the big picture. I also find younger guys unwilling to try certain things to figure out what works for them, or they do not pay attention and keep logs to know what worked and what did not. I know I was that way when I was younger.

    Now I try new things for few weeks to see if I am responding well to it then tweak something else and so on. I know my current routine is not optimized and still trying to figure out what to fix/change. I am also paying a lot of attention to form for example, not locking out, steady tempo, sticking with the range that is working the specific muscle and so on.

    In the end, there are many solid programs out there and they all will produce results. Some of them will add mass with no details since they only concentrate on the major lifts, but once you have the strength and mass, you can add accessories to the missing pieces.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadi
    Not sure what is facinating about prisons, but if you guys so interested in it, there is a book about prison training on Amazon.

    Supplements are just that. They supplement your nutrition. They can tilt things in your favor in some cases, such as cortisol reduction, increasing the intake of some amino acids, or fats, act as an anabolic agent in the body and so on. Keeping the gains in both size and strength is the challenging part.

    People get overly obsessed with so much details that they miss the big picture. I also find younger guys unwilling to try certain things to figure out what works for them, or they do not pay attention and keep logs to know what worked and what did not. I know I was that way when I was younger.

    Now I try new things for few weeks to see if I am responding well to it then tweak something else and so on. I know my current routine is not optimized and still trying to figure out what to fix/change. I am also paying a lot of attention to form for example, not locking out, steady tempo, sticking with the range that is working the specific muscle and so on.

    In the end, there are many solid programs out there and they all will produce results. Some of them will add mass with no details since they only concentrate on the major lifts, but once you have the strength and mass, you can add accessories to the missing pieces.
    What's the book called?

    The reason I brought up prisons is because I was just curious as to what makes them grow.
    I mean I guess they would be BB material but they get pretty damn close.
    I'm sure (not 100%, but 95%) they have/take all these new fancy supplements we do and I couldn't picture them with a tub of protein & shaker downing some hydrowhey
    I could be wrong.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.
    www.InsaneVeins.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    What's the book called?

    The reason I brought up prisons is because I was just curious as to what makes them grow.
    I mean I guess they would be BB material but they get pretty damn close.
    I'm sure (not 100%, but 95%) they have/take all these new fancy supplements we do and I couldn't picture them with a tub of protein & shaker downing some hydrowhey
    I could be wrong.
    I don't recall the name, I saw it while browsing for bodybuilding books on amazon. If I run into it again, I will post is name.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadi

    I don't recall the name, I saw it while browsing for bodybuilding books on amazon. If I run into it again, I will post is name.
    Thx.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.
    www.InsaneVeins.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by dialtone
    There is an interesting article on T-Nation titled "Training for Muscle Mass" (I can't post a link, but go have a look, a very recent post). In it the author comments on a number of different, yet common training splits/plans and his "pricipals of a good training program". It is a good read with some food for thought, but he keeps driving home the point that training muscle groups once per week is not optimal, which happens to be the basis for many 3, 4 and 5-day splits.

    However, I (respectively) take contention with the idea that this type of training is "not optimal". Now, I'm definately not an expert and I wouldn't even know where to find any studies (please correct me if I am wrong on anything in this post), but from my own experience (using a 5-day split), and the experience of others I know (using 4 and 5-day splits), the best results have come from the "once per week" approach.

    5-day splits are primarily done to work one muscle group per week. This allows you to break down the muscle to the fullest and allow a full seven days before working that muscle again to fully recover (the article argues if this much time is needed). We all know recovery is key in bodybuilding and this approach will help prevent overtraining from working a muscle too much in one week. Also, training a muscle group once a week allows you to use high volume training and not worry about having not enough time for recovery. Training a muscle group twice a week during a 5-day split is possible, but I would'nt recommend it because it leaves little room for recovery. In my personal opinion, without a doubt, training muscles once a week during 5-day splits are better than training it twice a week. People who will benefit the least from this kind of training will be those whose aim is only to gain strength, such as the power lifters. Working out five days a week is calling out for overtraining for power lifters since they will not have enough time for recovery.

    I have been running a 5-day split for about a year now, although today it doesn't resemble what I originally started with. It took a few months to get the adjustments to diet, exercises, sets/reps, workout order, muscle group orders and perodization set up, but once I found the right combination (at least for me) progression has been constant wether bulking or dieting. I find the 5-day split can be used effectively for both mass gaining and fat loss training. My training split looks like this:

    Day 1: Legs/Abs
    Day 2: Chest/Calf's
    Day 3: Back/Abs
    Day 4: Shoulder/Calf's
    Day 5: Bi's/Tri's/Abs
    Day 6: Rest
    Day 7: Rest

    I settled on that order of muscle groups because training the lower body is probably the most taxing for my body. Therefore it is crucial to train it first in the beginning of each week to ensure that the workout is done while my body is still fresh. Also, it's more optimal to space shoulder and arm days as far as possible from chest day to allow the joints and triceps to recover properly.

    As for the set/rep range, I train both heavy and light to target all the muscle fibers available to allow optimal growth during recovery period. I also use various techniques that prove to be useful, such as supramaximal hold, heavy eccentrics, rest-pause, heavy lifting and ballistic lifting etc... I switch either the main exercise or technique (or both) after 3 weeks or so.

    One thing I don't do, but really should is go 5-days in a row without a break. Ideally I would like to have a day off in bewteen day 1 and day 5 somewhere, but I go Monday to Friday only as weekends are family time (which means the wife won't let me out of the house!).

    I am really interested to hear any thoughts and opinions on the above!
    Hey bud! Thanks for the post!
    I like what your saying here. The only thing that have just kinda realized lately is the recovery of muscle fibers. What I am saying is this. Basically your work out looks like this, legs,chest,back,shoulders,bi's +tri's. Now this is something I have tried to fig out for some time now. Hear me out. After you have done your chest and back you hit your shoulders, but your shoulders have been hit the last two days really, you see what I'm saying. Then you hit you bi's and tri's the next day, when really you have worked them all week. So how do you get optimal power and recovery out of each muscle? I think the routine needs to be put into a four day split so you do get that day off on wen. Like put day 2+3 together and 4+5 together leave day one to itself and then do a core day. I think you will get better results. I really don't understand the one muscle a week thing. I have done it for a long time but I always felt like I was a couple days off on getting the full potential out of each muscle. After five days it's feels like the muscle is just on hold. Also it affected my other work outs because as we know the muscles all work together. So I would kill one muscle and then need to use it still for the next few days. In my experience I feel you need to go heavy when the area your working on is ready. Why fly with one wing injured. You see what I'm saying. It has taken me a while to figure this out. Also people say they have reached there max or Plato. You need to Plato on a Certain work out you are doing, at that time you change to a different work out of the same muscle group, maybe a work out your not so strong in and Plato on that exercise. Basically thats the deal as I have come to see it. Heavy sets of no more then 12 and no less then 4. Of course that heavy push of one is nice but injury is your Demon. Watch for that the most. It has hurt my gains more then anything. I think the order goes like this, injury,diet,lifting,stretching ,goals. I hope this helps my friend.
    -Big Boy D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    What's your deal bro? Just sounds like a bad attitude to me. What are you here for if you want to talk about other guys on the street selling crack. Did you ask them what there diet is? We don't need negative blah blah blah that your bringing. Go do push ups and bug out if that's what you have to offer because this is for real for these guys on this forum. Further more from what I have learned over time is that when people discuss others the way you do, they need some help also. Why not try to learn something instead of tooting your horn? Are you one of the guys on the corner? Didn't think so. If its that easy why don't you have ripped up muscles? Ohhhh nooooo!!! Lol!
    i did come off a little harsh.. please excuse me.. i guess my point is, as amateur lifters we focus on everything else but the basics.. i use the poor youths within the inner city who have fantastic physiques as an example of hard work being the key...

    and yes.. i am very lean and muscular.. over 6'5 265...

    have a good day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavathrow

    i did come off a little harsh.. please excuse me.. i guess my point is, as amateur lifters we focus on everything else but the basics.. i use the poor youths within the inner city who have fantastic physiques as an example of hard work being the key...

    and yes.. i am very lean and muscular.. over 6'5 265...

    have a good day.
    No that's cool bro. We all say things sometimes that just comes out wrong. Really though there secret really lies in there diet. They eat mostly drugs. The best diet I have seen is drugs weather its roids or the white stuff. I think almost any one with a good diet is going to look in shape. Good diet and throw in a dumb bell, your doing better then, well, these days 90% of Americans.
    I can come of as a butt head sometimes also bro. No big deal really. What's your take on the lifting for gains bro?
    Your a good size boy. Always been working out or .... I am 6'2" 260. If I didn't lift I bet I would be 225-230, or just fat at 240. Haha! Hey man be good or good at it!
    -Big Boy D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D

    Hey bud! Thanks for the post!
    I like what your saying here. The only thing that have just kinda realized lately is the recovery of muscle fibers. What I am saying is this. Basically your work out looks like this, legs,chest,back,shoulders,bi's +tri's. Now this is something I have tried to fig out for some time now. Hear me out. After you have done your chest and back you hit your shoulders, but your shoulders have been hit the last two days really, you see what I'm saying. Then you hit you bi's and tri's the next day, when really you have worked them all week. So how do you get optimal power and recovery out of each muscle? I think the routine needs to be put into a four day split so you do get that day off on wen. Like put day 2+3 together and 4+5 together leave day one to itself and then do a core day. I think you will get better results. I really don't understand the one muscle a week thing. I have done it for a long time but I always felt like I was a couple days off on getting the full potential out of each muscle. After five days it's feels like the muscle is just on hold. Also it affected my other work outs because as we know the muscles all work together. So I would kill one muscle and then need to use it still for the next few days. In my experience I feel you need to go heavy when the area your working on is ready. Why fly with one wing injured. You see what I'm saying. It has taken me a while to figure this out. Also people say they have reached there max or Plato. You need to Plato on a Certain work out you are doing, at that time you change to a different work out of the same muscle group, maybe a work out your not so strong in and Plato on that exercise. Basically thats the deal as I have come to see it. Heavy sets of no more then 12 and no less then 4. Of course that heavy push of one is nice but injury is your Demon. Watch for that the most. It has hurt my gains more then anything. I think the order goes like this, injury,diet,lifting,stretching ,goals. I hope this helps my friend.
    -Big Boy D
    I'm really following you on your theory about his split and recovery. I have fallen into the trap of hitting one muscle per day as well. For some reason I have always felt like I can blast one muscle group better as opposed to cruising to conserve enough energy to hit 2 or more bp's enough for growth. I used adhere to more of an instinctive training program than any. It let me train according to how my body felt as well as keeping my muscles guessing. Usually got decent results from it. But I have also found that some kind of structured program holds me more accountable to hitting everything equally. What does the recovery look like to u on a split like this?

    Back-Bi's
    Chest-Tri's-calves
    Off/Cardio-abs
    Quad-Hams
    Off/Cardio-abs
    Delt-Trap-calves
    Off/Cardio-abs
    Repeat

    Like most gym rats It's hard for me to do a 4-3 as opposed to a 5-2. But spreading out corresponding working parts might enable one to go heavier on larger groups giving them more recovery for growth.
    ???
    "Liver stress is weakness leaving the body!!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Thx.
    Found it. It is called Convict Conditioning. There are two books, 1 and 2. It is body weight workouts such as pushups, pullups, etc.
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