Lifting for gains

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  1. Virtually anyone can make progress using the standard 3x10, 3 times weekly protocol with adequate rest between sets. Prevents over training too. JMO


  2. DC is good, but to really get the most out of it you need to have several years of consistant training under your belt.

    A good start would be to run a 3 or 4 day a week schedule with no more than 2 days back to back. You don't grow in the gym...you grow as you recover. This is good for most athletes natural or otherwise.

    Next, if you want to do your own programing pick a main exercise for each body part, or a main movement for that day (the main one can be heavier)...then add one or two supplemental or isolation movements (usually at a higher rep range...think 10-15, and sometimes even 20+).

    I highly recommend Jim Wendler's 5/3/1. It's a great, flexible program that will make you stronger AND bigger if you're eating enough.
    Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" program is solid as well.

    A basic layout I did a long time ago was something like this:
    pick a basic compound exercise for whatever part you're doing that day and hit it for 5x5.
    Then pick 1-2 other movements and do them for 2 x 8-10.
    Easy as that. e.g. -
    (Not counting warm ups)
    Squats = 5 sets of 5 reps
    Leg press= 2 sets of 15 ( I know I said 8-10, but high rep leg presses with constant tension is great for size)
    Leg curls = 2-3 sets of 8-10
    Calves = whatever you wish.

    When you're able to complete all the sets at the prescribed reps...up the weight by the smallest increment possible.

    Like everyone has said, there are several ways to do things, and several variables that have to be looked at. Pick a program/write one out...try it...take notes on progress or lack thereof and make changes accordingly.

    Best to you man...I know trying to grow can be frustrating at times. It does make the successes sweeter though.
    -2z-
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  3. I just have to say that the feedback that I have been getting alone is inspiring me. Thanks for the real good answers to the question. There really is so meany ways to work the muscles. Thanks I look forward to more feedback.

  4. right now im having my fitness athlete do 3 weeks,low reps 5-8, then 1 week high rep 15-25, then 2 weeks 8-12, then 1 week deload (20-30 reps 2 exercises each body part (my version)), then start it all over again

    for her itll work, will it work for you? maybe. best thing is trial and error, hit all muscle fibers, stimulate as much tissue as possible without over doing it. and having ample rest/ recover days.

    on weak muscle groups on a bulk, id have one cheat meal post workout of the muscle your lacking in most. itll help bring it up a tad.

  5. Good idea with that cheat meal. Yeah so many ways. I just think changing everything up every so often is a main factor as well.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Good idea with that cheat meal. Yeah so many ways. I just think changing everything up every so often is a main factor as well.
    im a routine guy, i pick from 5 exercises and rotate them in and out 2-3 exercises per body part, for back i do all of them just vary the sets per exercise.

    i dont like new things, at this point in lifting the things i am doing worked for me the things im not doing didnt.

  7. I'm afraid the things I'm not doing, are the things I should be doing. In your mind your saying to yourself you don't need it, but is that one of your obsticals, or mine. I think there is a Lot of will power questing there.
    So when you change up your reps, do you change the weight also? Do you stick to a set weight, or sets of weight for the different reps? sound confusing of the muscles but confusing also, or interesting. Don't really know. Haven't tried the work out.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    I'm afraid the things I'm not doing, are the things I should be doing. In your mind your saying to yourself you don't need it, but is that one of your obsticals, or mine. I think there is a Lot of will power questing there.
    So when you change up your reps, do you change the weight also? Do you stick to a set weight, or sets of weight for the different reps? sound confusing of the muscles but confusing also, or interesting. Don't really know. Haven't tried the work out.
    i go as heavy as i can for set reps.

  9. Reps and weight are relevant to body type and predomination of type of muscle fiber. Ectomorphs do best with high reps. Training consistently in the same mode is what creates results and is what determines if your type of training is working. Switching between styles frequently is counterproductive IMO. Once a guy finds what works and what doesnt you can gain and maintain. A person reaches a limit on how much muscle can be built and kept, without androgens. IMO hypertrophy training works for everybody, regardless of somatotype. Thats why 3x10, 3 times weekly is the basic template, its limits overtraing, minimizes injury and enhances muscle growth/maintenence.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull
    Reps and weight are relevant to body type and predomination of type of muscle fiber. Ectomorphs do best with high reps. Training consistently in the same mode is what creates results and is what determines if your type of training is working. Switching between styles frequently is counterproductive IMO. Once a guy finds what works and what doesnt you can gain and maintain. A person reaches a limit on how much muscle can be built and kept, without androgens. IMO hypertrophy training works for everybody, regardless of somatotype. Thats why 3x10, 3 times weekly is the basic template, its limits overtraing, minimizes injury and enhances muscle growth/maintenence.
    I can agree with this.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  11. I like to mix it up.

    I'll weight train for 5 days a week in a cycle that its muscle groups with compounds twice a week. I.e mon-chest tues-arms wedn-legs thurs-back fri-chest sat-cardio sun-cardio then monday-arms tuesday-legs wed-back thurs-chest friday-arms sat-cardio sund-cardio. So each week also a certain muscle group only gets a 4 day rest and this cycles around groups each week. I work in the rep range of 8-12 After a few weeks of doing this my body feels like it going to fall apart, then I switch to doing 3 days a week, for example, monday- back and arms wednesday- chest and tris then friday legs. During the 3 day a week period I chill a little on the cardio too and concertrate on very heavy weights and reps in the range of 5-8.

    I will repeat the 3 day fir two weeks, building the cardio right back up then move back to 5 days a week with higher volume.

    Ive been doing this for about six months now and it works really well for me.
    so

  12. That. Sounds like a good routine. You are keeping a cycle going but changing it up. Did you come up with this style on your own? If I read it right you have only weight lifted for six months? I have been working out off and on for years. I couldn't come up with that routine. Good job. Well thought out. I would just say, going longer then a couple weeks on you load cycle and a few more on your active recovery cycle might make that ideal. Like 10 weeks on the five day and 8 on the three. Or the other way around. I say ten because you could cycle through the five day twice. I say 8 for the three day because you want to build mass, right? I think if I was going to use this style I would make the 5 day my heavy work and the three my light.( active recovery is what I call it after a heavy run.then you could rip up more cardio on the tue and wen. Just thinking......so..... What do you think?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    That. Sounds like a good routine. You are keeping a cycle going but changing it up. Did you come up with this style on your own? If I read it right you have only weight lifted for six months? I have been working out off and on for years. I couldn't come up with that routine. Good job. Well thought out. I would just say, going longer then a couple weeks on you load cycle and a few more on your active recovery cycle might make that ideal. Like 10 weeks on the five day and 8 on the three. Or the other way around. I say ten because you could cycle through the five day twice. I say 8 for the three day because you want to build mass, right? I think if I was going to use this style I would make the 5 day my heavy work and the three my light.( active recovery is what I call it after a heavy run.then you could rip up more cardio on the tue and wen. Just thinking......so..... What do you think?
    Cheers for the input. I've been training for years, I've done many different routines in that time, some good some not so good lol. I did come up with this one myself. the principle is a routine where you build up volume then go into a heavy phase then into a recovery phaze. I think Im going to try your advice on spendind a period lifting light on the 3 day a week period to ensure recovery, I haven't tried that yet. The only reason I do things in two-three weel blocks is because during the volume phaze my joints actually start to hurt, I do alot of cardio on top of this so I think my body reaches a state of overtraining quite quickly.

    This last 6 months I think I have finally discovered a routine that works for me, its taken years lol. I've tried basic volume training, static training, heavy duty(Mike mentzer), max contraction, 5x5 and all sorts of mix ups of these. I think out of these the least produtive one was the max contraction and the most effective for results was 5x5 and basic volume training. Thats why Ive incorperated these two into my most recent routine.

    Again thanks for the input its great food for thought!

  14. its also dependent on how fast you recover. i LOVE 3x/week workouts like 5x5 and DC during my winter bulk. but cutting, recomping (even though sometimes i do DC and 5x5), i really do a 5 day BB split to hit every angle of the muscles. and reps dont matter IMO. as long as you always mix it up.
    BPS Representative
  15. Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by bpclipper10 View Post
    Everyone responds differently depending on genetics. Some guys have what I call the 'freak' gene where they can work out 3 days and still have that swole and jacked look. This is the case with the guy I first started training with when I got to college. Kid was a monster no matter what we did, he was absolute animal looking. Very frustrating yet motivational when ur a frail freshmen like I was lol.

    This being said, through all my endeavors in the gym over the last 4 years as a serious lifter as a college athlete I'm still a firm believer in muscle confusion. Training for strength i feel goes hand in hand with hypertrophy. I started 4 years ago at 5' 9" 160lbs and that's generous. Redshirted first year so I committed to just building mass. I blasted hard for 8 weeks and would take a week of high rep at bout 30% of my 1rm. Then get back to it hard and repeated the process. I would use pyramid schemes and drop sets with training til failure and had a 4 on 1 off split. Used mainly grneric lifts and compound lifts like squats and cleans.I ate like a beast and blew up. Got up to bout 173lbs in 8 months or so and granted some was fat but my bf% never surpassed 12% throughout.

    The next couple of months I focused on my diet and strength gain. With compound lifts, extremity (bi's, tri's, calves, forearms) lifts, and core focus work. Would superset every major lift with a core exercise like toe touches, crunches, leg raises, planks. This really shredded Nd strengthened my full body because while activating my core in lifts, I was now focusing in on the abs an lower back a bit extra. Really shredded me up in the midsection. By the time I finished my sophomore year I was at 185lbs and 9% bf.

    Hit my junior season in the spring at 180lbs and 8%bf. really went back to my hypertrophy training with low rep heavy compound lifts to failure. Currently in my senior year and weighed in yesterday at 187lbs and 9% bf.

    Now with all this background rant...I digress, through my experiences with various trainers (one of which is former ny mets training staff and others that work with nfl guys) and my education in exercise science partially, I've learned that it's about muscle confusion through various splits, rep schemes, fast twitch slow twitch muscle training exercises and diet. IMO you must constantly change and alternate your workouts. As previously mentioned your muscles learn to adapt to exercises. Small variations in hand position or rotations, you can throw your muscle memory off enough to make gains. I try to change my muscle specific days weekly. If I hit chest on Monday and do incline press, and I do chest on Saturday I'll do incline flies instead of press or go to cable incline presses. Small changes like this can truly elevate your gains.

    In addition, if your a strength guy like I am as a baseball guy, I recommend creating 5 day split with focus on compound lifts superseted with core exercises like med ball throws and what not to develop power. (clean to press with med ball twist throws) 30-45 seconds rest max.

    If your looking for your size gains I recommend 4 day split with muscle concentration days with ab workouts 3 days a week. You'll see great gains in hypertrophy with the 5-8 rep range til failure. 1:00-1:30 rest be patient lol. Stay away from cardio exceeding 15 minutes. It can be catabolic to muscle growth.

    Remember though, recovery is key. You must be open to really committing to off days and a week thrown in here and there where you lower your weight and raise your reps. Allows your muscles to recover and at the same time still confusing them.

    Diet is another story And I could go on all night on that topic. Quick recommendation though, cut the crap food, stay away from fried stuff, red & white meats, stick to water (1.5-2 gallons/day) and eat like a beast.

    Eat clean, confuse your muscles, get creative, get 8 hours sleep, and mentally commit to your program and your goals and you will grow. Be patient. It's taken me 4 years to reach where I'm at now and I'm not content (but them again who ever is) It's taken countless guys years and decades to reach their goals. Work hard and believe in yourself and don't compare to others, your not competing against anyone except yourself. Take it one workout at a time and kill every one!

    Disclaimer: I'm no professional in any field and only speak to my personal experiences and education. I'm just another guy trying to lend a hand to someone asking for help in this quest for beastlyness.

    Enjoy the journey and never stop learning and adapting. Good luck man! Hope I helped and apologize for my long and unnecessary story. Hope some of it made sense.

    *END Rant*
    nice post

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Gstyle24 View Post
    nice post
    thanks man, just trying to help this guy out. hope it helps someone lol

  17. Sry guys! I had a baby! Well she had the baby but you know what's up.
    Dude that last post was crazy! As soon as things settle down around here I am going to focus back onto my routine. I have been just doing 3-4 sets8-12 reps reg work out. The last couple post were great thanks!
    If anyone has a few more ideas , please write. Big D

  18. when i do a 4 day split, i go 4-6 reps, 4 sets (heavy) on compound lifts. everything else i say 10 - 15 reps. i rotate my 4 day split with 5x5, DC and another 4 day split i do. i hate full body workouts though. i shrink when i do them. have tried them many times. just not for me.
    BPS Representative

  19. I need to check out this DC work out. I have no idea. Under a rock in Portland ME. I am doing one body part a day right now. I take my days off when I feel I need it. I have always worked 8-15 reps on most of my work outs. Work up my weight. It's good but not having the heavy muscle look. I'm good size tho at 260 6'2. I want to get beastly. Well rounded shoulders and ****. Maybe this DC thing will work.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D
    I need to check out this DC work out. I have no idea. Under a rock in Portland ME. I am doing one body part a day right now. I take my days off when I feel I need it. I have always worked 8-15 reps on most of my work outs. Work up my weight. It's good but not having the heavy muscle look. I'm good size tho at 260 6'2. I want to get beastly. Well rounded shoulders and ****. Maybe this DC thing will work.
    260 6'2 and you want to get beastly?! **** I wish I was u
    you can lead a man to knowledge, but you cant make him think.

  21. The weird thing is that in some ways I wish I was you. I don't know what you look like like but I will assume smaller framed. I wish I could have the cut full but sleek look. I am just big. Bigger then most. With my size in order for me to have that sleek look I need to get the muscle really big. Harder to sustain then a guy 60 pounds lighter. When I do diet and hit the gym hard I look great but if I screw up my routine for anything over a week, week an a half. I go down hill fast. It's nice being big, but it is costly in more then just money. I feel the smaller framed guys don't pack on the weight like a big framed guy(fat+muscle). But the weight they do pack on is kept better by the smaller framed guys. Idk

  22. Ok since i feel i'm a prime candidate for the subject of "over-training" i'll shed some of my experience with it to help you out!

    First off, i don't believe you can over-train entirely BUT there is a point where you will need a few days off to recover/grow. ANYWAYS i have been busting the crap out of this "myth" for the past 5 months. I believe that with the intensity of the training reflects how much more you should be eating to FUEL yourself and the increased metabolism resulted from more frequent/longer training sessions.
    Currently i train Full body 3-4x a week like this.

    Day 1: Full Body (Chest/Back PRIORITIZED) That means i start with chest/back.
    Day 2. OFF completely
    Day 3: Full Body (Legs PRIORITIZED)
    Day 4: OFF completely
    Day 5: Full Body (Shoulders/Arms PRIORITIZED)
    Day 6: OFF completely
    Day 7: Either OFF depending on how i feel or i will do weak point training PRIORITIZED along with full body

    Sessions average approximately 3 hours and i consume a BCAA/Carb drink (like Size-On or something of the sort)
    I also consume around 1-1.5 gallons of water and have energy through the entire session (99% of the time)
    After a few weeks (being around 3-4) i may take a few extra rest days and consume higher calories.

    You can doubt this training all you want but there's a reason why the guys back in the day trained this way for a few reasons i can think of being:
    1. Burning more calories (Less reliance on boring cardio)
    2. Better cardiovascular conditioning (this is due to super-setting two different exercises for different muscles and taking minimal rest)
    3. Faster strength and size gains (Depending on your calorie intake VERY IMPORTANT)
    4. More practice with exercise movements.
    5. Improved Muscular conditioning.

    These are the effects I HAVE experienced, the biggest determining factor that will also determine your progress is the CALORIES. (The highest point i was taking in 6-7k calories for a few days then dropping back down to 5-6k) You cannot eat like a RABBIT and train this way effectively! Who knows though this may work for some and others may not work so well but it will almost always boil down to intake of food. Also when you start feeling very run down through sessions is the point where i would take a few days off until you feel 100%.

    Here's my older training log: thetinyguy's ALL OUT training log!! *CAUTION OVERTRAINING*

    When i first began trying to gain weight i made 2 choices: To train as hard as i possibly could and to eat as MUCH as i possibly could. I believe in high calorie/super high intensity training. During that period i trained 3 hours with a Chest/Back, Legs, Shoulders/Arms split and it worked really well i went from 170-240lbs over a winter and proved to myself what i was capable of. I went of the beaten path and tried something that seems to have been buried in the modern training world. Arnold and the golden era guys trained that way for a reason.

    Hope this helps you out man! Impossible is nothing and anything is achievable.
    I hope everybody thinks i'm crazy, because you cannot be a sane person and go through the type of pain i am willing to put myself through to be where i want to be, Once I completely win the war between my mind and body, my reign will begin. ~Me

  23. I got a program that trains 3 days a week...

    Shoulders & Legs
    Chest and Tris
    Back & Bis.

    Keep moving fast and get it done quick.

    Everything works differently for every person.

    I like that routine because, 1)I work a lot so 3 days is a nice time saver for me.
    2) full body work outs are exhausting to me, just can't seem to get it done & part of it is because I usually hit a few more reps/exercises and it gets me tired quicker and I usually want to be out in under an hour. 3) the 5/6 day a week 1 muscle group deal doesn't work if for people that don't absolutely destroy that muscle group, basically the gains take longer to come I think personally.

    What I posted above is 1 day followed by 2 days off.... It's easy if u want to carb up or fast and/or get cardio and abs in on the off days so I think people need to try many styles and routines and see what fits them best.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by thetinyguy
    Ok since i feel i'm a prime candidate for the subject of "over-training" i'll shed some of my experience with it to help you out!

    First off, i don't believe you can over-train entirely BUT there is a point where you will need a few days off to recover/grow. ANYWAYS i have been busting the crap out of this "myth" for the past 5 months. I believe that with the intensity of the training reflects how much more you should be eating to FUEL yourself and the increased metabolism resulted from more frequent/longer training sessions.
    Currently i train Full body 3-4x a week like this.

    Day 1: Full Body (Chest/Back PRIORITIZED) That means i start with chest/back.
    Day 2. OFF completely
    Day 3: Full Body (Legs PRIORITIZED)
    Day 4: OFF completely
    Day 5: Full Body (Shoulders/Arms PRIORITIZED)
    Day 6: OFF completely
    Day 7: Either OFF depending on how i feel or i will do weak point training PRIORITIZED along with full body

    Sessions average approximately 3 hours and i consume a BCAA/Carb drink (like Size-On or something of the sort)
    I also consume around 1-1.5 gallons of water and have energy through the entire session (99% of the time)
    After a few weeks (being around 3-4) i may take a few extra rest days and consume higher calories.

    You can doubt this training all you want but there's a reason why the guys back in the day trained this way for a few reasons i can think of being:
    1. Burning more calories (Less reliance on boring cardio)
    2. Better cardiovascular conditioning (this is due to super-setting two different exercises for different muscles and taking minimal rest)
    3. Faster strength and size gains (Depending on your calorie intake VERY IMPORTANT)
    4. More practice with exercise movements.
    5. Improved Muscular conditioning.

    These are the effects I HAVE experienced, the biggest determining factor that will also determine your progress is the CALORIES. (The highest point i was taking in 6-7k calories for a few days then dropping back down to 5-6k) You cannot eat like a RABBIT and train this way effectively! Who knows though this may work for some and others may not work so well but it will almost always boil down to intake of food. Also when you start feeling very run down through sessions is the point where i would take a few days off until you feel 100%.

    Here's my older training log: thetinyguy's ALL OUT training log!! *CAUTION OVERTRAINING*

    When i first began trying to gain weight i made 2 choices: To train as hard as i possibly could and to eat as MUCH as i possibly could. I believe in high calorie/super high intensity training. During that period i trained 3 hours with a Chest/Back, Legs, Shoulders/Arms split and it worked really well i went from 170-240lbs over a winter and proved to myself what i was capable of. I went of the beaten path and tried something that seems to have been buried in the modern training world. Arnold and the golden era guys trained that way for a reason.

    Hope this helps you out man! Impossible is nothing and anything is achievable.
    Cool man. You really put on some weight. I like the work out you have going. I just think the full body work outs will help me feel more solid at the same time. I am going to try your routine .

  25. Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    I got a program that trains 3 days a week...

    Shoulders & Legs
    Chest and Tris
    Back & Bis.

    Keep moving fast and get it done quick.

    Everything works differently for every person.

    I like that routine because, 1)I work a lot so 3 days is a nice time saver for me.
    2) full body work outs are exhausting to me, just can't seem to get it done & part of it is because I usually hit a few more reps/exercises and it gets me tired quicker and I usually want to be out in under an hour. 3) the 5/6 day a week 1 muscle group deal doesn't work if for people that don't absolutely destroy that muscle group, basically the gains take longer to come I think personally.

    What I posted above is 1 day followed by 2 days off.... It's easy if u want to carb up or fast and/or get cardio and abs in on the off days so I think people need to try many styles and routines and see what fits them best.
    if its 1 day on, 2 days off, then you are working out 3 times every nine days, not seven...so it isnt 3x/week workout. i would shrink if i did that
    BPS Representative

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    Cool man. You really put on some weight. I like the work out you have going. I just think the full body work outs will help me feel more solid at the same time. I am going to try your routine .
    Definitely, like i said though you may have to ease into it but i swear it to anyone who asks me it works really well. Let me know how you like it!
    I hope everybody thinks i'm crazy, because you cannot be a sane person and go through the type of pain i am willing to put myself through to be where i want to be, Once I completely win the war between my mind and body, my reign will begin. ~Me

  27. Quote Originally Posted by R1balla

    if its 1 day on, 2 days off, then you are working out 3 times every nine days, not seven...so it isnt 3x/week workout. i would shrink if i did that
    Technically it's Sunday, Monday, Thursday. This would leave Fri, Sat, Tues, Wed off but you can kind of tailor it. The goal is to hit all it 3 times a week and leave 2 days of rest between each muscle group.

    How is you're routine set up R1?
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  28. i cycle through around 4 of them a year. and each time i go, i do different exercises but keep the same routine with same reps for that specific routine i am doing for a month or two. i literally changed maybe every other month. always confusing my body

    but i have seen best results with DC. ive been on a 4 day split these past three weeks, and starting monday im gonna go back to DC lol
    BPS Representative

  29. Quote Originally Posted by R1balla
    i cycle through around 4 of them a year. and each time i go, i do different exercises but keep the same routine with same reps for that specific routine i am doing for a month or two. i literally changed maybe every other month. always confusing my body

    but i have seen best results with DC. ive been on a 4 day split these past three weeks, and starting monday im gonna go back to DC lol
    Nice yeah I'm going to have to look into that further.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by thetinyguy

    Definitely, like i said though you may have to ease into it but i swear it to anyone who asks me it works really well. Let me know how you like it!
    I work out for about two hours now. I do one body part for the most part. I hit up other parts that I want to pump during the work out super set stuff,. Have you been lifting for a long time?
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