Why do so many roid boys do natural shows?
- 10-28-2011, 10:59 PM
1) is the strictness and dedication to the diet and training
2) is the long term use of steroids (10+ years). U dont look like that overnight, or even overyear. It takes YEARS on AAS to get this way.
Personally, I have the first difference down but not the second which explains my overall mass which is 150-160lbs. However I AM coasting at 7-8% BF which is plenty good to be on a solid start. In 5 years, unless something catastrophic occurs or my life circumstances drastically change, I'll be about 190lbs and 5-6% BF. Simply put, it takes years to produce those kinds of results.
- 10-29-2011, 12:38 AM
10-29-2011, 01:25 AM
the 240 i spoke of was someone around my height, about 6'2.... nowhere near 'bodybuilding' physique, but could have cut about 15 lbs and been there.
10-29-2011, 10:20 PM
At the end of the day organizations ban whatever seems to work effectively and consistently across the board when it comes to hormones and even other supplements. And, it seems, that whatever works also seems to carry a number of side effects - some of which can be serious and harmful or even fatal if taken beyond measure. This is also why I think the FDA jumped on board in 1990 and ban steroid use period.
All of this solidifies my points in previous posts (not related to this thread) about how steroid side-effects go hand-in-hand with side-effects. Not to change the subject or anything. I'm just correlated the fact that the banned-list, the FDA, and the bb'ing users all go after the same hormones and supplements and all stem from the same reason. For instance,
Organizations ban substances - because they work effectively
FDA bans substances - because those things that work typically have side-effects associated with them that are deemed unsafe
BB'ing users use substances - again, because they work effectively
Now the first and last ones I completely agree with but the FDA I DO NOT because those feds are a bunch of hypocrits. They ban steroids and everything else that works well for BB'ers yet the gov pockets billions in taxes for selling those cancer sticks to the public, which IMO are FAR more unsafe than a hormone could ever amount to.
10-29-2011, 10:30 PM
Don't forget (and don't let me get started on) the 'side effects' of booze. Let alone 'cancer sticks'.
Alcohol has done and will do more damage than anything, ever.
This thread has been put to rest.
10-30-2011, 04:02 AM
i despise the argument 'if alcohol is legal, then ____ should be too'
sure, steroids CAN be used safely, but so can alcohol. further, we all know the negative effects alcohol can have... hell, we all take a class in high school that TEACHES us all the bad things it can lead to, but in most peoples mind, any 'supplement' they can buy at the store HAS to be safe, right? there are people ive heard of around here who have ended up COMPLETELY f ucked up from buying those damn stacks from complete nutrition (with what, like 4 methylated compounds in the stack?)
just because SOME people know how to use something doesnt mean MOST know how to, especially teenagers that they push this **** on. the point is, if ph's/aas were legal, they would cause far more harm than good because while ive never seen a study on it, i would bet my last dollar that MOST people who take ph's literally have no idea what theyre doing and use them irresponsibly either a) too young, b) without the proper support, c) without proper pct, d) without knowledge of side effects (drinking on cycle, etc) or all of the above, all because they SIMPLY DONT KNOW or nowadays because the pro-steroid guys push this absurd agenda that its all a conspiracy and steroids arent actually bad for you.
if i hear one more person quote that ****ing movie with 'well, more people end up in the hospital because of vitamins than steroids' im gonna punch them in the face..... and im not anti-steroids, id do them myself if i could, but im not going to sit here and say theyre safe when ive seen people i know personally suffer terrible effects because they bought something legal at complete nutrition (or wherever)
10-30-2011, 04:12 AM
10-30-2011, 11:42 AM
As far as cigarettes are concerned, I only give them respect because the United States would not be around if we didn't have tobacco. I do think it's gross and unhealthy, but it made the US what it was early on in the game.
10-30-2011, 01:01 PM
yeah, the argument about cigarettes is true, theres no 'safe' way to smoke or use tobacco. but i guess its just one of those things (not saying its right or wrong, just saying) like you mentioned where it generates so much money, making it illegal would be kind of impractical for our economy.
bigdavid - yeah, they touched on them in my class, but im just saying that in general people dont know too much about them, especially with regard to actual use. everyone knows, in general, how to safely drink, but VERY FEW know how to safely use something like prohormones. i guess its a double edge sword, in some ways i think society demonizes steroids and makes blanket statements about their side effects, however, ive personally seen a lot of people suffer some nasty sides from ph's they bought and thought were safe because they were 'legal' (it seems like a lot of people think youre only on 'steroids' if youre using injectables, which they see as too hardcore and dangerous, while something oral and legal is a 'safe' alternative to them)
10-31-2011, 08:15 PM
Adding to the natural debate. I think when you sign up for a natural show, you know that theres an expectation to fit into societies idea of a natural bodybuilder.
IMO, a natural body builder should be someone who takes supplements to get healthy and fill in nutritional deficits, and the occasional herbal fat burner/preworkout. Things like creatine and protein both fall into the nutritional deficit filler category. Creatine/stimulants set the bar for how good something can work, with the exception of EFA's, carbs, and qualitie muti's and protein. Other than vitamin D, most popular BB hormones just work too good. Things like PEZ products fall into a weird category. No one really has an Erase dificiency, but at the same time, I would never ask someone on Erase or Shift to go compete with the roid guys, because you have to work really hard to notice anything on those products. Your average guy who goes to the gym for a few months here and a few months there probably would say the products didnt work, except for the libido effect from Erase.
Test, GH and Insulin work way too good though. We all remember when we hit puberty and are muscle just naturaly got a little more plump. Takeing a high dose of test is just way more powerful than anything someone copeting in a natural show should be doing.
10-31-2011, 10:00 PM
do you have any links to show PH are toxic?
I dont do them, but i KNOW they are toxic- I'm not retarted. But i wanted a link of actual info to send to a friend of mine, who thinks they're OK just b/c they are legal.
10-31-2011, 11:32 PM
11-01-2011, 09:06 AM
Nah dude its real. Im serious. I dont take PH. My buddy does. Hes just plain old stupid, and doesnt know they're bad for you. I just was wondering if you knew any SPECIFIC links, that I could send to him.
11-01-2011, 10:13 AM
not off the top of my head, but im sure you could find some if you google.... i prefer peoples blood work reports mid-cycle though, and you can find a lot of those around here if you dig deep enough.
11-01-2011, 09:38 PM
What does toxic mean?
If you are talking about hepatoxicity, I'd rather do controlled cycles of a PH for 6-8 weeks at a time than take tylenol every day for aches and pains...
11-01-2011, 09:55 PM
Dude. I NEVER suggested taking tylenol or asprin ever day. And youre stupid if you compare the dmg from that to the dmg caused by PH. Asprin doesnt suppress your bodys normal fxn of creating tst
11-01-2011, 09:56 PM
And if you have a headache or aches and pains every day you need to go to the damn chiropractor. nobody should feel like that. you're not 80 yrs old.
11-01-2011, 10:00 PM
and why would that be?
tylenol poses no threat to a healthy individual, taking a normal dosage, who isnt drinking because their body is able to detoxify the metabolite which actually causes the liver problems in tylenol. its not actually the acetaminophen thats toxic, its the metabolite produced in the liver, which is detoxified in most circumstances.
11-01-2011, 10:58 PM
11-01-2011, 10:59 PM
11-01-2011, 11:00 PM
11-01-2011, 11:02 PM
well then, yeah, but thats kind of comparing apples to oranges if you're not going to compare them on the same basis.
11-01-2011, 11:06 PM
I was just asking what this guy meant by toxic. He never defined it. I don't consider down regulation of testosterone production a toxic effect. It's a negative feedback loop, it has nothing to do with a chemical being a poison.
And just for 'bar trivia' tylenol causes more liver failure related deaths than all other drugs combined.
11-01-2011, 11:10 PM
11-01-2011, 11:14 PM
I don't understand all the hate.
The reason for drug usage is not relevant. Nor am I justifying the use. I feel like people are putting words in my mouth?
The whole statement was said in jest because he never defined his term 'toxic' or 'bad for you' and therefore it was tough to respond to his post.
I consider performance enhancement a quality of life improvement :-p
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