Why do so many roid boys do natural shows?

[bmanmonkey]

Why do so many roid boys do natural shows? Even if you don't get caught isn't it an empty victory?
By beating guys who don't use it's not even a competition

What are your thought
Example the natural universe and Olympia pro shows how big are these guys who are "natural" it is very disheartening when you train hard , eat right, rest and been training longer then some of these guys!

 

[androsoft]

how do you know they are roiding? if you're just saying it because of how they look then your claim is groundless.

 

[StackedCop]

Growth hormone and insulin can not be found in any drug test.

 

[JajaNe20]

The far right guy is kyoshi moody. Muscle takes time, it is ignorance to say that these guys are roiders when they spent 10+ years of hard training and great eating habits to call them "ROID boys." I suggest you should try it yourself and you'd see that you can make some great gains naturally. I don't know if your used to seeing small regular natural "gym rats" but these are top competitors in the natural organization. Do some hard work, and eat correctly for years and then you might see it's possible.

 

[fueledpassion]

I'd also like to comment that these guys have fantastic genetics in the first place. It's the main reason they are capable of "dieting" and training down to 5% BF unlike most of us. There are only a handful of guys in the gyms that can look like this naturally. These are guys that are so gifted genetically that unless you know them very personally chances are you would accuse them of steroid use because of their beastliness!

At least with the steroid club you have a fighting chance to get somewhere with it after a couple of years "on". I don't think alot of roid users are going to natural shows. I think the roid users are just going to "shows". It's all around a better idea for the steroid community to stick together because if EVERYONE in the show is on the juice then the competition is really pretty even and the judges and administration have no desire to bust anyone out.

 

[StackedCop]

i wonder if he only eats 3 meals a day??

edit: just did a google, looks like he eats 14 meals a day! never heard of this guy before mailnly bc i dont follow BBing but im gonna keep a close eye on this dudes blog

 

[JajaNe20]

Nah moody doesnt eat 3 meals a day, in fact he eats 7 to 8 and he is a big proponent of high protein. In fact I think he eats 400-500 grams a day, and while most will bash his beliefs down; they are usually a lot smaller than big moody. It works for him, nuff said

 

[StackedCop]

Nah moody doesnt eat 3 meals a day, in fact he eats 7 to 8 and he is a big proponent of high protein. In fact I think he eats 400-500 grams a day, and while most will bash his beliefs down; they are usually a lot smaller than big moody. It works for him, nuff said

i agree with you bro! i always eat 400g protein meals are every 3 hours. The guys bashing me weigh 30-50lb less LOL!!! some guys might be able to get aways with eating like a bird but when i tried the Layne Norton diet i lost size fast and strength dropped big time.

 

[ripped_one]

These guys LOOK huge, but they don't really weigh that much. Brian Whitacre (the guy below) competes at like 165. 100% natural... He's just so well proportioned and peeled to the bone that he appears to be a monster. The two other guys are both well under 200. It's not all that hard to believe that pure dedication and awesome genetics can get you to this point.

http://www.brianwhitacre.net/Pictures/Thumbnails/Worlds 2010 Thumbnails/2010 Routine2.jpg

http://www.brianwhitacre.net/Pictures/Thumbnails/Worlds 2010 Thumbnails/2010 Posedown2.jpg

 

[androsoft]

The far right guy is kyoshi moody. Muscle takes time, it is ignorance to say that these guys are roiders when they spent 10+ years of hard training and great eating habits to call them "ROID boys." I suggest you should try it yourself and you'd see that you can make some great gains naturally. I don't know if your used to seeing small regular natural "gym rats" but these are top competitors in the natural organization. Do some hard work, and eat correctly for years and then you might see it's possible.

X2

I'd also like to comment that these guys have fantastic genetics in the first place. It's the main reason they are capable of "dieting" and training down to 5% BF unlike most of us. There are only a handful of guys in the gyms that can look like this naturally. These are guys that are so gifted genetically that unless you know them very personally chances are you would accuse them of steroid use because of their beastliness!

At least with the steroid club you have a fighting chance to get somewhere with it after a couple of years "on". I don't think alot of roid users are going to natural shows. I think the roid users are just going to "shows". It's all around a better idea for the steroid community to stick together because if EVERYONE in the show is on the juice then the competition is really pretty even and the judges and administration have no desire to bust anyone out.

X2

 

[JajaNe20]

I know man i feel the same way, while i dont eat 400 grams I eat between 315-340 daily. I always here people bashing this thought, but guess what? It works for me, and that's all that matters.

 

[oufinny]

Take a look at Doug Miller, he is a beast and competes naturally. Many natural guys look WAY better than the pros that use AAS/insulin/GH, they don't get the recognition because it is all about size. Most natural athletes have to work really freaking hard to get there too, those natty supps just aren't the same as roids.

 

[fueledpassion]

Take a look at Doug Miller, he is a beast and competes naturally. Many natural guys look WAY better than the pros that use AAS/insulin/GH, they don't get the recognition because it is all about size. Most natural athletes have to work really freaking hard to get there too, those natty supps just aren't the same as roids.

They really aren't lol. I'll be the first to admit that I prefer the extra help lol. It's really fun to me and plus I like to experiment with stuff (kinda like my current log on Triptorelin). Personally, my goal is to compete around 175lbs and 5-6% BF which is plenty for me to do well in the junior/open classes since I'm only 5'5"ish. The difference in being natty lean and steroid lean is the diet and strength, IMO. Those are the only difference other than the "pumps" so to speak. I can eat less than 2000kcals/day on exogenous hormones and burn fat/gain muscle while most guys natty have to have like 60-70% of their daily caloric intake coming from protein which is why they are eating 300+g protein per day. For instance, I easily put on 3-4lbs of muscle and burned fat in the process with less than 100g protein/day when I was on my last recomp cycle. My strength went up 15% or better in some cases too. For instance, my squat max went from 275 X 2 to 335 X 2 in 6 weeks time. Imagine how much different that would have been had I been bulking instead of cutting.

 

[oufinny]

They really aren't lol. I'll be the first to admit that I prefer the extra help lol. It's really fun to me and plus I like to experiment with stuff (kinda like my current log on Triptorelin). Personally, my goal is to compete around 175lbs and 5-6% BF which is plenty for me to do well in the junior/open classes since I'm only 5'5"ish. The difference in being natty lean and steroid lean is the diet and strength, IMO. Those are the only difference other than the "pumps" so to speak. I can eat less than 2000kcals/day on exogenous hormones and burn fat/gain muscle while most guys natty have to have like 60-70% of their daily caloric intake coming from protein which is why they are eating 300+g protein per day. For instance, I easily put on 3-4lbs of muscle and burned fat in the process with less than 100g protein/day when I was on my last recomp cycle. My strength went up 15% or better in some cases too. For instance, my squat max went from 275 X 2 to 335 X 2 in 6 weeks time. Imagine how much different that would have been had I been bulking instead of cutting.

Yep that sounds right. My average cals right now, being on an epi/tren cycle as we speak, are less than my maintenance and I am up 6 pounds of dry gains. No way you gain anything in a caloric deficit on natty supps, it just doesn't work that way. I don't compete or play sports anymore so being natural really matters not to me (sounds like we share the same opinion). Good luck competing by the way!

 

[Firmanator]

I'd also like to comment that these guys have fantastic genetics in the first place. It's the main reason they are capable of "dieting" and training down to 5% BF unlike most of us. There are only a handful of guys in the gyms that can look like this naturally. These are guys that are so gifted genetically that unless you know them very personally chances are you would accuse them of steroid use because of their beastliness!.

This sounds the same as people who say a crazy natural guy and go " no way he's natural. He's too lean." or "he's too big". If you instantly discount someone's work to good genetics or drugs, you've already lost...
Bodybuilding is about using whatever your genetics give you, and improving everything else. Everyone has strong and weak points genetically, but few have the mindset and willpower to embrace them and build a shredded work of art. Very few have amazing genetics, and there are far more than a few incredible natural bodybuilders.

 

[Firmanator]

I dunno, I guess they just don't think they can hack it in untested shows. Some also did stuff years back and are now "natural". However, Ive found people are far to eager to just discount someones years of hard work and just refuse to believe theyve achieved it naturally. If you deem things to be impossible, just because it's so impressive, might as well not bodybuild anymore. I look at the top natural competitors in awe and say, that will be me someday. If im going against aomeone whos "cheating" oh well....especially since some of my natural pro friends (who are actually lifetime naturals) have done very well in npc shows.
P.s. I'm actually judging the INBA natural Olympia, stoked!

(sorry some of that was repetitive, copied from the other thread lol)

 

[bmanmonkey]

When I say roid boys in naturals that also includes the use of Prohormones, rp6, dhea, yohimbie ,andro, dmma as in Australia the use of all these "supplements" is prohibited unlike in other countries where natural bodybuilder use them without a problem

 

[Firmanator]

I agree with that except for yohimbe, which is found naturally.

 

[LiveToLift]

I'd also like to comment that these guys have fantastic genetics in the first place. It's the main reason they are capable of "dieting" and training down to 5% BF unlike most of us. There are only a handful of guys in the gyms that can look like this naturally. These are guys that are so gifted genetically that unless you know them very personally chances are you would accuse them of steroid use because of their beastliness!

At least with the steroid club you have a fighting chance to get somewhere with it after a couple of years "on". I don't think alot of roid users are going to natural shows. I think the roid users are just going to "shows". It's all around a better idea for the steroid community to stick together because if EVERYONE in the show is on the juice then the competition is really pretty even and the judges and administration have no desire to bust anyone out.

Good post here! Genetics do have a big role no matter what anyone has to say about it.... Not taking away from strict dieting and good drive etc, but to say it has "little to do with it" is an uneducated statement. Just saying....

 

[Firmanator]

Who said it has no part?

 

[LiveToLift]

rephrased sorry. :wink1:

 

[Firmanator]

Still, did someone say it has little to do with it? I must've missed it

 

[LiveToLift]

Still, did someone say it has little to do with it? I must've missed it

Guess I misunderstood what you implied, I apologize for trying to understand your confusing post...

 

[Firmanator]

Ok to reiterate...It bothers me when people attribute most of someone's success or the quality of their physique to genetics. Everyone has strong and weak points. Some have great genetics for bodybuilding, some don't. Having great genetics doesn't ensure being a great bodybuilder, and having "poor" genetics doesn't mean you can't succeed. I have a bunch of pro natural friends and none of them look the same. All have totally different genetics, All are known for different body parts...yet all are pro. That's what I'm saying, so don't lose hope yet

 

[kingdong]

I do hate that everyone says tat to be a natural BB you have to have really good genetics. Maby, out of the billions of paople on earth, there realy are a few tough guys with average genes who can push themselves to do this.

 

[bigdavid]

Hard work is extremely important in any endeavor that you wish to succeed in. However, you have person A and person B: both work pretty close to 100% towards their goal. Person A has better genetics in this area than person B...guess who is going to be more likely to succeed? I have always been gifted with understanding science classes (not so much with muscle building, which is what got me into weight lifting to begin with). I can study for only a few hours and get an A on a test when friends have to study for weeks and get a lower grade. Genetics is huge..but you all are right it is NOT everything.

 

[TheProfessor]

I personally think the playing field is MORE level when there is NO drug testing. One just assumes everyone is on everything, or people just don't talk about it or don't care. Drug testing only creates an advantage to those who have the capacity to get around it.

As we have just witnessed, people only question 'natural champions' when they win. It's never the other way around.

I am not on one side or the other. Just my observations.

 

[kingdong]

Ya, but even then, if a BB has a good year, you never really know if this was the year he did superdrol.

 

[Torobestia]

I think this Kyoshi Moody has one of my favorite natty builds of all the ones I've ever seen. That taper, God.

 

[Firmanator]

Yeah, seen him in person, monster. Mike waddington from Australia was craaazy (2nd to kiyoshi). Stoked to judge the Olympia this year

 

[hardgain3r]

I knew a guy that was locked up and when he came home dude was jacked ripped and I pretty sure he wasn't on roids

 

[aceroni]

So.. I compete naturally. My buddy takes prohormones, and thinks he should compete "naturally" too. He JUST took mdrol, and is planning on doing a show in april. Is that considered cheating?

I for one, think if you're taking drugs (PH/AAS/ CLEN) up to a natural show, you're not only a cheater, but a COWARD.

 

[LiveToLift]

So.. I compete naturally. My buddy takes prohormones, and thinks he should compete "naturally" too. He JUST took mdrol, and is planning on doing a show in april. Is that considered cheating?

I for one, think if you're taking drugs (PH/AAS/ CLEN) up to a natural show, you're not only a cheater, but a COWARD.

M-drol/superdrol is a pretty potent steroid which is not natural.....

 

[Torobestia]

M-drol/superdrol is a pretty potent steroid which is not natural.....

What? I thought superdrol was an extract from the four-leafed Trifolium repens?

 

[Firmanator]

So.. I compete naturally. My buddy takes prohormones, and thinks he should compete "naturally" too. He JUST took mdrol, and is planning on doing a show in april. Is that considered cheating?

I for one, think if you're taking drugs (PH/AAS/ CLEN) up to a natural show, you're not only a cheater, but a COWARD.

Yes that is cheating! None of that is natural, tell him to man up and do npc. I'm probably doing an npc show next year and I'm totally natural...

 

[emekajokammor]

Good thread here and nice signature Firmanator!

 

[MidwestBeast]

So.. I compete naturally. My buddy takes prohormones, and thinks he should compete "naturally" too. He JUST took mdrol, and is planning on doing a show in april. Is that considered cheating?

I for one, think if you're taking drugs (PH/AAS/ CLEN) up to a natural show, you're not only a cheater, but a COWARD.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Firmanator]

Good thread here and nice signature Firmanator!

Thank you!

 

[bdcc]

There are local junior shows that I was tempted to compete in a couple of years ago before I reached the age limit. The standard was very low and I was confident that I would have done well, even though I am not in bodybuilding shape.

I have taken ephedrine pre workout on multiple occasions which is on the banned substances list. Although a friend of mine told me he thought it was no big deal I know it would have tainted my view should I have placed well or won because technically I did something that was against the rules.

That is my own personal opinion. I know that people can say "yes but when you 'know' everyone else is on something, you are just levelling the field" maybe so, but I wouldn't have felt good winning if I was one of them either.

 

[aceroni]

exactly bdcc. But this kid is a fat boy baby back bitch. Hes 19 yrs old and has done more than 3 cycles of M-drol... And as far as other PH's hes cycled, more than I can count. His liver almost failed once he had to get some sort of vitamins to heal it back up..
what about the "natural" test boosters, like Anabeta, IGF2, and free test?
I was thinking about trying an IGF2/ft/litup stack. is that considered unnatural? Would i be "cheating" if i were to do a drugtested show after that? I figured since it was natural and doesnt need a PCT, then yah its ok. What do you guys think??!

 

[Firmanator]

In my eyes, only substances that are found naturally are natural and ok. Everything else is cheating. So basically only creatine, bcaas, and herbs/minerals/vitamins are ok.

 

[TheProfessor]

Testosterone, Insulin, growth hormone are all naturally occurring and EVERYWHERE...

If you think it's cheating because they are synthesized then 99% of the things in dietary supplements should be cheating. Caffeine, Vit D/C/E/A Creatine... BCAA's...

I'm not raggin I'm just saying based off of that argument there is a very fuzzy line.

Most people equate 'unnatural' or 'cheating' with injections, and I feel this just isn't the case. If it were up to me I'd just inject everything. At least you know it's in you, whether it's a multi or insulin.

If you equate hormones to unnatural this just simply isn't the case either. As Vitamin D is CLEARLY a hormone.

I don't think it's terms of natural or unnatural anymore. It's just whether the organization you compete in has banned it. Because arguing about what is natural and what isn't is silly.

 

[Firmanator]

Feel free to give examples. But that's what's on most banned lists....everything naturally occurring is basically ok. I know there's test, tribulus, which is an herb, as I said.
Caffeine, vit d, bcaas etc are all naturally occurring substances...

 

[TheProfessor]

Feel free to give examples. But that's what's on most banned lists....everything naturally occurring is basically ok. I know there's test, tribulus, which is an herb, as I said.

This is my point. I have edited my post above to reflect that. It's not in terms of natural or unnatural, it's in terms of what is banned or not.

If I gathered 10's of thousands of gallons of my own urine (don't challenge me), isolated the testosterone from it and injected that, wouldn't it be natural?

 

[TheProfessor]

Caffeine, vit d, bcaas etc are all naturally occurring substances...

Right, testosterone is a naturally occurring substance too. Just as natural as the synthesized caffeine and BCAA's.

 

[Firmanator]

Yeah I know the line is fuzzy, kinda sucks. I was just giving general guidelines...of course what really matters is making sure what's on or off the banned list.
If you really want to harvest test from your urine, yeah you'd probably pass the drug test
Yeah I think the problem is when someone's test levels become unnaturally high. Not sure how they determine that

 

[TheProfessor]

I agree, like I said, I'm not arguing. It's just more of a semantic issue for me. There are bodbuilders/athletes that are tested for banned substances that some third party organization has deemed banned and bodybuilders/athletes NOT tested for banned substances that a third party organization has deemed banned.. Not natural and unnatural.

If you discover and use a substance that is not on the banned compound list then you fall within the rules of the 'natural' organization. If they end up banning it after then it's an ex post facto situation anyway.

This is why I feel untested organizations actually have a MORE level playing field. You aren't at any disadvantage.
If anyone does particularly well in a tested organization everyone is just leery of them 'cheating' anyway. It gets really old.

 

[Firmanator]

Yup exactly, I hear ya on all that.
The only time I'm really questioning someone is when they have an ab belly and massive gyno like a dude at the show I recently judged haha it looked ridiculous

 

[bill86]

i just feel like anything thats going to boost your test or gh PAST natural limits is unnatural... test may be natural, but its unnatural to have levels at like 1500, you know?

i guess im cynical because where im from i see guys that are SO small who have taken ph's/aas and im in such disbelief that when i see someone of a decent size im like 'oh, theyre DEFINITELY on it'..... that and so many local bb'ers have told me they arent on anything (especially when i was in my teens, i guess trying to be a good influence haha), then i find out theyre on all kinds of ****.

but the REAL question is.... no offense to any amateur bb'er, you all look 10x better than me, but whether on it or not, amateur bb'ers just look SO small on stage after seeing pros... so WHAT exactly do these pro's put in their bodies to look THAT absurd? lol... i know genetics plays a part, but come on... i was talking to my friend the other day, these guys we see at the gym that are ENORMOUS look soooo small in their bb pics compared to the pros (i know you cant compare this to a pro, but when youre like 5'10 240-250 lean as hell, you look HUUUUUGEE in real life, but then smaller in pics)

 

[Firmanator]

I don't know any natural pros anywhere near 240 on stage lol. Even moody is around 205 I think onstage. If you're contest weight is over 200 you're big for a natty...