Natty or Not

[jsmoke]

Hey Guys,

I am around 40 yrs old...back to lifting for around 5 months now(used to be long time srs lifter...ahh the glory days...). I am currently cutting some fat, about 5'8" 172# and 16%bf.

My goals are NOT to be the strongest guy in the gym (not my genetics anyway...heh..heh) but to recomp. I want good overall fitness (low bf, good cardio endurance and decent strength for my size/age).

I was thinking of running a ph in about 6 months after leaning out to about 10% bf. In fact, I have purchased around 6 cycles of relatively mild stuff (cheap prices and ban hammer threat got to me).

However, I am second guessing running one. I am not asking whether I should run one (I know it's my personal decision). But maybe some old users turned natty or some of the "wise" folks can give some words of wisdom.

I was thinking that several properly run "mild" ph's would be ok. Anyone w/past experiences that thought this...and would like to add some "words of wisdom".

Any feedback would be great!

Thanks

 

[Jake Fires]

maybe this will help you make a decision.

i have currently 2 cycles of LG sciences trifecta stack under my belt.

now these are completely mild and the only side affects that i have noticed is that it shot my libido sky high then it leveled out a bit then during the beggining 2 weeks of my PCT its was practically gone. all is well now im about 3 weeks into PCT and my libido is "perfect"

honestly i dont think mild PH's will mess you up. but you need to take into consideration that im 22 and your 40 sooo. maybe better input from someone around your age will be more usefull.

just keep reading.

 

[Broly]

To start we need to know what are the PH that you have in mind to use, since the concept of mildness of a ph may vary from person to person. For exemple, to some Halo is a mild compound to others it isn't that mild as there are milder options. So that would be a nice point to start.
Then I honestly think that with only 11 straight months of training under your belt isn't that long enough for you to have an idea of what can you do to maximize your own potential with your body at the moment, perhaps waiting one year full year since now would be great, not only for you to see how do you progress at this age as for you to learn some great things about steroids and plan a nice and safe cycle (not saying that you don't know how to cycle safe only say that there's always something to improve while planing a cycle like timming, dosages, compounds, etc.).

 

[C Dub805]

There are definitely some concerns with taking PH's. As Jake Fires pointed out, The Trifecta Stack is a relatively mild PH cycle and it has received way more positive reviews than negative; however, because it's mild doesn't mean it's devoid of any sides. Some users have reported acne and loss of libido and the gains associated with Trifecta are mediocre at best so you must ask yourself, is it really worth running a PH? Users report 3-5 lb gains, which is mediocre and can easily be done with heavy weight training and proper intensity and diet. I am not knocking the Trifecta Stack, but with such reported mediocre results, why not start with LG Sciences Natabolic Stack that way you don't experience any negative sides like loss of libido, erectile issues, etc???

 

[jsmoke]

Thanks for the replies guys. I definitely won't be running one anytime soon. I am happy with my progress right now. First, I want to get some fat off. I agree, phs do affect folks differently. I have researched things to a "T"...but know I am not ready yet. Heck, like I said I may not run one at all. I have h-drol, pmag, and d-zine. I know these are not considered mild - more then 11 oxo but less than superdrol. D-zine seems pretty harsh from some reviews so I think I will be getting rid of that. I was thinking of h-drol for 5 weeks at 50mg. I know that some say 75mg is the sweet spot...but I probably will be around 160# before I run one. Some folks get pretty good results at 50 mg with little sides.

 

[kingdong]

I would stay away altogether. Your getting to that age where people experience a drop in test, and a PH cycle probably wouldnt help in the long term. The low estrogen during PCT would be hard on the joints. PH's are also harder on the liver than real roids, and they were mainly just popular because they were legal...................................................................................................................................................If you do choose to run one, get your PCT in advance, before they all become illegal.

 

[Broly]

I know these are not considered mild - more then 11 oxo but less than superdrol. D-zine seems pretty harsh from some reviews so I think I will be getting rid of that.

I wouldn't say to get rid of it, but keep in mind that D-zine is just 2 molecules of superdrol attached to each other with an azine connection, so it works similar to superdrol in terms of results, but not a mild one for sure.
I would save it perhaps to do a bulking phase or a cut, since it has the same versatability of s-drol But to start, with the ones you have, h-drol is without doubt a good one for a clean bulk or a cut as P-mag is the wet cousin of H-drol, so P-mag would be good for a light bulk. And, of course, always cycle safe

 

[jsmoke]

I would stay away altogether. Your getting to that age where people experience a drop in test, and a PH cycle probably wouldnt help in the long term. The low estrogen during PCT would be hard on the joints. PH's are also harder on the liver than real roids, and they were mainly just popular because they were legal...................................................................................................................................................If you do choose to run one, get your PCT in advance, before they all become illegal.

Again, thanks for all the input guys.

Can you expand on that please? I have pharma nolva on hand as well as supports. Even with proper pct I am at greater risk for not restoring test? I have not heard of this with older folks per se...but anyone having low test levels. I recently got bloodwork done and everything was in normal range.

 

[kingdong]

Again, thanks for all the input guys.

Can you expand on that please? I have pharma nolva on hand as well as supports. Even with proper pct I am at greater risk for not restoring test? I have not heard of this with older folks per se...but anyone having low test levels. I recently got bloodwork done and everything was in normal range.

It's hard to say. our test levels are supposed to drop after forty, although some experts say the level of training we do can keep them constant. Combine your age with something that lowers your test, and you might just not recover as well as the younger guys. It could work out well, but it could also be a catabolic nightmare.

 

[unc21]

Given your age, I would look into test. Even though your test may be in normal range, that doesnt necessarily means its not on the low end. Alot easier on your organs

 

[kingdong]

Given your age, I would look into test. Even though your test may be in normal range, that doesnt necessarily means its not on the low end. Alot easier on your organs

I wouldn't sa that test would improve your health, but like he said, if you gotta take something, a real hormone would be better for you. Before you make the decision though, think about wether you wanna be on permanent TRT, because like I said before, whos knows how your body will handle the shutdown....In fact, leutinizing hormone is the one you need to get an erection, and TRT can diminish that if you don't take other things.

 

[jsmoke]

Thanks for all the input. Gives me more to think about. I realize test in a lot of ways is better, but it will still shut you down. Plus, I have a family - pinning is not an option for me.

Any more older guys out there want to chime in?

 

[unc21]

PHs and orals will shut you down just as much as test will, FYI.

 

[BIG R]

Personally I dont think you should wait. You should do some H-drol type PH with low sides right now.

Why wait? Taking some PH will keep you from losing too much muscle as you drop the weight. In fact, you probably will gain muscle.

Then you take a few weeks off the PH, and then WHAM hit it again!

I guarantee you better results in shorter time.


By the way, Im 41 and just did this myself. I also thought about losing the fat first, but Im glad I didnt. Worked out better, I gained strength while losing thirty pounds of fat (and putting on ten pounds of muscle). Normally when I lose fat I lose strength as well.

 

[onzero]

at ur age you need to be more concerned with sides like BP/lipids/liver values than a younger man would.

most of these "mild" ph's are 17aa steroids which means they are methylated to survive first pass metabolism by the liver, but it also means they are hepatoxic.

if i were you I would look approach this differently.

first i would get a work up done and see what your natural test levels are, as well as complete lipid and liver panels. you may have low test anyways and could benefit a lot from TRT alone, which in the long run will give you more gains, health, and well-being than any ph ever will, and it's something you will feel and see immediately.

now if all that comes back peachy then you can try out one of these phs, but please get bloodwork done first.

 

[onzero]

Thanks for all the input. Gives me more to think about. I realize test in a lot of ways is better, but it will still shut you down. Plus, I have a family - pinning is not an option for me.

Any more older guys out there want to chime in?

I don't see how having a family precludes you from looking out for your own physical well-being? Injectable steroids are, on the whole, far safer than orals (including what you refer to as "mild prohormones" which are in reality untested fully active oral steroids, many of which more toxic and less "mild" than there illegal counterparts such as dianabol)

If you care about your family, and assume that they want you to be around when your kids start having kids, I would take this all very seriously... Injectable testosterone is one of the safest chemicals you can put in your body even at performance enhancing dosages, while these "mild ph's" are among the more toxic, the difference is very substantial.

I'm not trying to flame here, but there is a lot of misinformation about steroids, I would really look into TRT, I used to work in a pharmacy where a lot of men younger than you got their TRT scripts filled, every single one of them was happy about their decision. Raising test levels to the upper end of the optimum range will actually have beneficial effects on lipid values as well as bone mass and joint health among others including energy, well-being, and libido (night and day difference)

phs just don't compare. there is a reason that testosterone-based cycles are recommended so often as well as TRT and natural hormone optimization.

 

[jsmoke]

at ur age you need to be more concerned with sides like BP/lipids/liver values than a younger man would.

most of these "mild" ph's are 17aa steroids which means they are methylated to survive first pass metabolism by the liver, but it also means they are hepatoxic.

if i were you I would look approach this differently.

first i would get a work up done and see what your natural test levels are, as well as complete lipid and liver panels. you may have low test anyways and could benefit a lot from TRT alone, which in the long run will give you more gains, health, and well-being than any ph ever will, and it's something you will feel and see immediately.

now if all that comes back peachy then you can try out one of these phs, but please get bloodwork done first.

got bloodwork:

metabolic:
ast 33 (10-40)
alt 42 (9-60)

lipid:
total cholesterol : 165 (125-200)
vldl 14 (5-40)
trigycerides 70 <150

test:
test total 425 250-1100
% free 1.81 1.5-2.2

psa:
.6 <=.4

bunch other stuff...but I think that's the important stuff.

Everything came out normal...a little low in B12.

 

[kingdong]

Injectable testosterone is one of the safest chemicals you can put in your body even at performance enhancing dosages, while these "mild ph's" are among the more toxic, the difference is very substantial.

I'm not trying to flame here, but there is a lot of misinformation about steroids, I would really look into TRT, I used to work in a pharmacy where a lot of men younger than you got their TRT scripts filled, every single one of them was happy about their decision. Raising test levels to the upper end of the optimum range will actually have beneficial effects on lipid values as well as bone mass and joint health among others including energy, well-being, and libido (night and day difference)

phs just don't compare. there is a reason that testosterone-based cycles are recommended so often as well as TRT and natural hormone optimization.

While TRT may be the future of medicine, let's not jump the gun about those "performence enhancing dosages". They deffinately seem to be safer than PH's, but let's remember:

1. If you have too much bodyfat, it will convert a lot of the test into an unhealthy amount of estrogen.

2. If you take that much test, you should be regularly checking your LH, estrogen, estradiol and other hormones, and taking medicatios to keep those in check.

And to jsmoke, I thought you knew that ph's caused shutdown. That's the whole purpose of PCT.

 

[jsmoke]

I don't see how having a family precludes you from looking out for your own physical well-being? Injectable steroids are, on the whole, far safer than orals (including what you refer to as "mild prohormones" which are in reality untested fully active oral steroids, many of which more toxic and less "mild" than there illegal counterparts such as dianabol)

If you care about your family, and assume that they want you to be around when your kids start having kids, I would take this all very seriously... Injectable testosterone is one of the safest chemicals you can put in your body even at performance enhancing dosages, while these "mild ph's" are among the more toxic, the difference is very substantial.

I'm not trying to flame here, but there is a lot of misinformation about steroids, I would really look into TRT, I used to work in a pharmacy where a lot of men younger than you got their TRT scripts filled, every single one of them was happy about their decision. Raising test levels to the upper end of the optimum range will actually have beneficial effects on lipid values as well as bone mass and joint health among others including energy, well-being, and libido (night and day difference)

phs just don't compare. there is a reason that testosterone-based cycles are recommended so often as well as TRT and natural hormone optimization.

I agree w/everything you say.

But don't like the idea of pinning with small kids in the house...just doesn't feel right.

With my bloodwork I doubt I will get a script for TRT. Going on TRT has a whole another set of issues that come with it as well.

 

[jsmoke]

And to jsmoke, I thought you knew that ph's caused shutdown. That's the whole purpose of PCT.

Oh I definitely do know that phs cause shutdown, thats why I have nolva. What I meant was that although test is safer in many ways, it too causes shutdown. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[MrBigPR]

TRT will cause shutdown and a slew of other problems If bot managed properly.


To those of you thinking you can scam and hop on TRT so quick don't be sure. The media, economy among other things have made it harder than ever.

I have seen too Manu insurances deny people due to age, lack of bloodwork

 

[MrBigPR]

iPhone typing. Please excuse me

 

[Kronic]

Check out some natural test boosters. Id stay away from ph to avoid sides.

Im currently running with some DAA

 

[AZMIDLYF]

I ran ActX/Apct and had the best results to date of anything. That was when I was in my mid 40s. Dermacrine TD by PP is also a great bump these days!!

 

[-2z-]

Ok....here's where I'm at, and what I'm thinking...

I'll be 39 in a couple weeks and I'm going back and forth considering future cycles myself. Back 5-6 years ago, I ran several cycles. The old s1+, SD, couple PP cycle, M4OHN...the favs.
Those always came out great...only bad PCT I had was the SD, but a divorce hit the same time and that was heinous. Lost a lot.
Those were the dark times...the time of the Sith.
...Sorry...
But after all the recent reading I've done on PP/heart, thinking about long term health and considering I remarried and am starting a family....I'm planning a cycle one day, then deciding to not do it the the next....back and forth.
There's a lot of info on both sides.
I still don't know if I want to use the left over bottles of original Pheradrol I have, lol. (Not to mention the SD)

But....
A while back I did Prime + PowerFull + cissus + Activate Ext. run for about 8wks and that was very very enjoyable. Made some great gains and felt fantastic.
Expensive? Yes. But, I may just go that route, since I don't plan on stepping on stage anytime soon.
Either that or maybe just one run of H-drol.
Lol...see. I'm torn.
All that just to say your not alone in your indecision.
Best 2 u man....

 

[boricuarage]

at your age... test is the best. my motto

 

[F355]

I don't get how test will cause any less shut down than PHs; if anything wouldn't it just cause more since it's like the actual active compound that PHs all try to convert to? And then on top of that, using it at dosages to enhance performance, I don't see how that's any less dangerous than PHs. I understand injecting it puts a lot less stress on your liver, which is a big deal, but I mean using the one of the most dominant male hormones as opposed to oral precursors because it's safer in the long run doesn't justify it's use. They call it TRT for a reason because you will be on it permanently, most likely.

You should weight your pros and cons before making the final jump, both personally and financially. If you enjoyed a mild PH, you should either try just running it again but for a little longer unless you've reached the maximum length of cycle. Or research and find out if you're ready for stronger PH.

TRT, honestly would be like the last option you should hold yourself too; or any kind of hormone replacement therapy for that matter. I know you probably already take every necessary precaution but remember that there's no such thing as being too cautious; especially when it comes to PHs/DS and your health.