Squats and deadlifts - ESSENTIAL? Aid in debate

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  1. Trick question. One CAN build muscle without a doubt. But why half-ass it? I mean really. There is too much evidence out there to over look compound lifts such as these.

    Nobody's overlooking anything. I'm just agreeing with Dorian you pick the lifts that cater to your strengths.


    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    Each individual has his/her own limits. These other lifts are trying to replace the squat and dead. Better results?, if the squat and and deads are done properly, NO WAY.


    So you're saying that for someone with long legs the back squat is ALWAYS better than the front squat, for instance?



    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    Same question? WTF dude? NO.


    Not the same question at all. Admittedly this is an infintesimal and nigh irrelevant minority but I thought what the Hell.



    6) Squats and deads are essential, therefore paraplegic bodybuilders do not exist and are completely imaginary.

    Nice, now you have included the physically challenged in this debate.
    Have you no shame?


    Quite the opposite. This thread is about whether squats and deads are ESSENTIAL. Paraplegic bodybuilders prove categorically they aren't. Why should we ignore the achievements of people who have overcome adversity to accomplish something? I think they should be celebrated, not ignored.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    Since a lot of people seem to be struggling not to go off on a tangent, here are some simple statements. If you agree with all of them you agree with me. If not, explain which ones you disagree with and why.

    1) Back squats and conventional deadlifts are amazing mass building movements that most people will grow extremely well from.

    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    3) It is not absolutely necessary to squat and deadlift to build muscle, although in almost every case it helps

    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    Simple agree or disagree answers to these statements are all that is necessary. If you agree with them then you agree with me. Simple.
    I agree with this to a point....but the problem is most people who are just lazy would look at this and say that they are in this category. Therefore they do not have to squat or deadlift and then when they dont get results they will blaim it on their genes and not the fact that they are lazy. I would say there are very,very few people out their who wouldnt benefit from a conventional squat and dead.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    I agree with this to a point....but the problem is most people who are just lazy would look at this and say that they are in this category. Therefore they do not have to squat or deadlift and then when they dont get results they will blaim it on their genes and not the fact that they are lazy. I would say there are very,very few people out their who wouldnt benefit from a conventional squat and dead.
    Yeah, but dude, don't you get it? That is EXACTLY what I have been saying this whole time, people have just been choosing to ignore it and respond to things they want me to have been saying but I haven't said instead. Go back and read my posts and you will see I have never said anything different to what you just said and what you agreed with.

    Like I said, I squat and dead, and I would suggest that the vast majority of people should squat and dead too. My points are simply that A) you can progress without them even if you can be doing them, and B) there is a small minority of people who would be better off entirely without them.

    Somehow this has been translated into "nobody at all should squat and deadlift ever," and I have got no idea why since I've made myself very clear.

  4. okay...then we agree.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    okay...then we agree.
    Indeed! Now, fingers crossed everyone else will read what I've actually written instead of what they want me to have written and agree as well.
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  6. Before squats, i had no ass. I worked hams and quads but couldnt fill out a pair of pants in the rear.

    Why neglect the glutes/hips?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Jay V 24 View Post
    Before squats, i had no ass. I worked hams and quads but couldnt fill out a pair of pants in the rear.

    Why neglect the glutes/hips?
    When did anybody ever suggest doing this?

  8. Just squat and stfu, why even make a thread about it?

    GICH!

    Seriously though, some people are just big naturally and dont need to SFW like an animal.

    Youre suggesting because yates didnt squat that you shouldnt either?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Jay V 24 View Post
    Just squat and stfu, why even make a thread about it?

    GICH!

    Seriously though, some people are just big naturally and dont need to SFW like an animal.

    Youre suggesting because yates didnt squat that you shouldnt either?
    I'm not "suggesting" anything. If you want to know what I think then READ MY POSTS.

    Christ, is reading something really so difficult?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Jay V 24 View Post
    Just squat and stfu, why even make a thread about it?

    GICH!

    Seriously though, some people are just big naturally and dont need to SFW like an animal.

    Youre suggesting because yates didnt squat that you shouldnt either?
    Squelchy suggested nothing of the sort. Not sure where you got that from his posts.

    The original poster in question asserted that it was ESSENTIAL to squat and DL in order to achieve any lean mass gains. Would you like to address that statement?

  11. 1) Back squats and conventional deadlifts are amazing mass building movements that most people will grow extremely well from.

    TRUE

    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    what..front squat? hack squat? sumo dead? rack pulls? stiff leg dead?
    the answer is FALSE: If you want a flushed out answer ask and I will type up an essay.

    3) It is not absolutely necessary to squat and deadlift to build muscle, although in almost every case it helps

    TRUE: But not for MAXIMIZED gains. only for gains.

    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    FALSE: An old woman who uses a walker (crippled) set it aside and squatted 90 lbs. at a powerlifting meet that Scott Mendelson was at. So he among others, hates it when guys complain about their knees or limb length, when crippled ladies can squat.

    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    FALSE:

    I think the overall problem in these questions is you haven't clearly defined the word "RESULTS."

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Jsherbro View Post
    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    what..front squat? hack squat? sumo dead? rack pulls? stiff leg dead?
    the answer is FALSE: If you want a flushed out answer ask and I will type up an essay.
    Please do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jsherbro View Post
    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    FALSE: An old woman who uses a walker (crippled) set it aside and squatted 90 lbs. at a powerlifting meet that Scott Mendelson was at. So he among others, hates it when guys complain about their knees or limb length, when crippled ladies can squat.
    So you're saying that for absolutely EVERYBODY, bar NONE, the back squat and conventional deadlift are the best exercises that can be done?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jsherbro View Post
    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    FALSE:
    So Dorian Yates didn't know what he was doing then?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Fet View Post
    Squelchy suggested nothing of the sort. Not sure where you got that from his posts.

    The original poster in question asserted that it was ESSENTIAL to squat and DL in order to achieve any lean mass gains. Would you like to address that statement?
    no i didnt haha. i said they were the best to maximum rates of growth. does that mean the rates are nonexistant without them? no


    might wanna move ur nose form squelchy's ass.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    no i didnt haha. i said they were the best to maximum rates of growth. does that mean the rates are nonexistant without them? no


    might wanna move ur nose form squelchy's ass.
    You said:

    the only exercise that can replace the squat is the deadlift..

    if you do neither.. you are not working out
    I don't see "maximum" in there.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    might wanna move ur nose form squelchy's ass.
    Lmao, Fet is actually debating WHAT HAS BEEN SAID, whereas you're the one posting bromance comments such as:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    bahaha this guys great.
    ....and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    and thank you again, your a boss.
    And something more recently along the lines of "Dude, let's neg him, it will be totally sweet, we're totally awesome."

    "I agree, we are awesome, let's totally neg him, I totally love you dude. Let's make out."

    Might want to extract your own nose from the anuses (anii?) of others before recommending such a process to others, eh?

    Good lad.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Fet View Post
    You said:



    I don't see "maximum" in there.
    the arugment started in another forum.. my argument was what squelchy reported it to be

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post

    Might want to extract your own nose from the anuses (anii?) of others before recommending such a process to others, eh?

    Good lad.
    OMG HAHAHAH OMAOEWIGJAOIEWGJ HAHAHAHHA!!!!

    .. ur not funny

  18. Deads and squats release more GH than any other lifts. So in my mind, they are essential if you want to grow.
    Think training's hard,. try losing!

  19. Quote Originally Posted by bonscott View Post
    Deads and squats release more GH than any other lifts. So in my mind, they are essential if you want to grow.
    So again, answer how paraplegic bodybuilders have grown if they are "essential."

    Either that or grab a dictionary and look up the word "essential."

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    OMG HAHAHAH OMAOEWIGJAOIEWGJ HAHAHAHHA!!!!

    .. ur not funny
    Whereas you of course have Chris Rock quaking in his boots.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    So again, answer how paraplegic bodybuilders have grown if they are "essential."

    Either that or grab a dictionary and look up the word "essential."
    Do you really need validation of your beliefs that much? You have gone way past appearing unintelligent in your attempt at garnering favor for your viewpoint. If you are that insecure that you cannot be content with your own opinion, then there is a defect in your self-image. Get over it man. This sh1t is tired.

  22. One can surely grow without these lifts, but if capable, they should be added to any hardcore bodybuilders repertoire.
    Think training's hard,. try losing!

  23. Quote Originally Posted by bonscott View Post
    One can surely grow without these lifts, but if capable, they should be added to any hardcore bodybuilders repertoire.
    So you agree with me then.

    Good.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    So you agree with me then.

    Good.
    Man, What is there to agree with here?

    If you have legs, for God sakes, use them to squat, or STFU and get out of my way.
    The Historic PES Legend

  25. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Man, What is there to agree with here?

    If you have legs, for God sakes, use them to squat, or STFU and get out of my way.
    How about reading the thread and finding out for yourself?
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