Squats and deadlifts - ESSENTIAL? Aid in debate - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 3

Squats and deadlifts - ESSENTIAL? Aid in debate

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  1. Jay V 24's Avatar
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    Before squats, i had no ass. I worked hams and quads but couldnt fill out a pair of pants in the rear.

    Why neglect the glutes/hips?

  2. Squelchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay V 24 View Post
    Before squats, i had no ass. I worked hams and quads but couldnt fill out a pair of pants in the rear.

    Why neglect the glutes/hips?
    When did anybody ever suggest doing this?
  3. Jay V 24's Avatar
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    Just squat and stfu, why even make a thread about it?

    GICH!

    Seriously though, some people are just big naturally and dont need to SFW like an animal.

    Youre suggesting because yates didnt squat that you shouldnt either?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay V 24 View Post
    Just squat and stfu, why even make a thread about it?

    GICH!

    Seriously though, some people are just big naturally and dont need to SFW like an animal.

    Youre suggesting because yates didnt squat that you shouldnt either?
    I'm not "suggesting" anything. If you want to know what I think then READ MY POSTS.

    Christ, is reading something really so difficult?
  5. Fet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay V 24 View Post
    Just squat and stfu, why even make a thread about it?

    GICH!

    Seriously though, some people are just big naturally and dont need to SFW like an animal.

    Youre suggesting because yates didnt squat that you shouldnt either?
    Squelchy suggested nothing of the sort. Not sure where you got that from his posts.

    The original poster in question asserted that it was ESSENTIAL to squat and DL in order to achieve any lean mass gains. Would you like to address that statement?
  6. Jsherbro's Avatar
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    1) Back squats and conventional deadlifts are amazing mass building movements that most people will grow extremely well from.

    TRUE

    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    what..front squat? hack squat? sumo dead? rack pulls? stiff leg dead?
    the answer is FALSE: If you want a flushed out answer ask and I will type up an essay.

    3) It is not absolutely necessary to squat and deadlift to build muscle, although in almost every case it helps

    TRUE: But not for MAXIMIZED gains. only for gains.

    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    FALSE: An old woman who uses a walker (crippled) set it aside and squatted 90 lbs. at a powerlifting meet that Scott Mendelson was at. So he among others, hates it when guys complain about their knees or limb length, when crippled ladies can squat.

    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    FALSE:

    I think the overall problem in these questions is you haven't clearly defined the word "RESULTS."
  7. Squelchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsherbro View Post
    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    what..front squat? hack squat? sumo dead? rack pulls? stiff leg dead?
    the answer is FALSE: If you want a flushed out answer ask and I will type up an essay.
    Please do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jsherbro View Post
    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    FALSE: An old woman who uses a walker (crippled) set it aside and squatted 90 lbs. at a powerlifting meet that Scott Mendelson was at. So he among others, hates it when guys complain about their knees or limb length, when crippled ladies can squat.
    So you're saying that for absolutely EVERYBODY, bar NONE, the back squat and conventional deadlift are the best exercises that can be done?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jsherbro View Post
    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    FALSE:
    So Dorian Yates didn't know what he was doing then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fet View Post
    Squelchy suggested nothing of the sort. Not sure where you got that from his posts.

    The original poster in question asserted that it was ESSENTIAL to squat and DL in order to achieve any lean mass gains. Would you like to address that statement?
    no i didnt haha. i said they were the best to maximum rates of growth. does that mean the rates are nonexistant without them? no


    might wanna move ur nose form squelchy's ass.
  9. Fet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    no i didnt haha. i said they were the best to maximum rates of growth. does that mean the rates are nonexistant without them? no


    might wanna move ur nose form squelchy's ass.
    You said:

    the only exercise that can replace the squat is the deadlift..

    if you do neither.. you are not working out
    I don't see "maximum" in there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    might wanna move ur nose form squelchy's ass.
    Lmao, Fet is actually debating WHAT HAS BEEN SAID, whereas you're the one posting bromance comments such as:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    bahaha this guys great.
    ....and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    and thank you again, your a boss.
    And something more recently along the lines of "Dude, let's neg him, it will be totally sweet, we're totally awesome."

    "I agree, we are awesome, let's totally neg him, I totally love you dude. Let's make out."

    Might want to extract your own nose from the anuses (anii?) of others before recommending such a process to others, eh?

    Good lad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fet View Post
    You said:



    I don't see "maximum" in there.
    the arugment started in another forum.. my argument was what squelchy reported it to be
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post

    Might want to extract your own nose from the anuses (anii?) of others before recommending such a process to others, eh?

    Good lad.
    OMG HAHAHAH OMAOEWIGJAOIEWGJ HAHAHAHHA!!!!

    .. ur not funny
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    Deads and squats release more GH than any other lifts. So in my mind, they are essential if you want to grow.
    Think training's hard,. try losing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonscott View Post
    Deads and squats release more GH than any other lifts. So in my mind, they are essential if you want to grow.
    So again, answer how paraplegic bodybuilders have grown if they are "essential."

    Either that or grab a dictionary and look up the word "essential."
  15. Squelchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    OMG HAHAHAH OMAOEWIGJAOIEWGJ HAHAHAHHA!!!!

    .. ur not funny
    Whereas you of course have Chris Rock quaking in his boots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    So again, answer how paraplegic bodybuilders have grown if they are "essential."

    Either that or grab a dictionary and look up the word "essential."
    Do you really need validation of your beliefs that much? You have gone way past appearing unintelligent in your attempt at garnering favor for your viewpoint. If you are that insecure that you cannot be content with your own opinion, then there is a defect in your self-image. Get over it man. This sh1t is tired.
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    One can surely grow without these lifts, but if capable, they should be added to any hardcore bodybuilders repertoire.
    Think training's hard,. try losing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonscott View Post
    One can surely grow without these lifts, but if capable, they should be added to any hardcore bodybuilders repertoire.
    So you agree with me then.

    Good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    So you agree with me then.

    Good.
    Man, What is there to agree with here?

    If you have legs, for God sakes, use them to squat, or STFU and get out of my way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Man, What is there to agree with here?

    If you have legs, for God sakes, use them to squat, or STFU and get out of my way.
    How about reading the thread and finding out for yourself?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    How about reading the thread and finding out for yourself?
    Your an idiot. your two way logic is that of a field mouse. You are trying to discredit the rule with the exception to the rule. Can you grow without them? Sure. Can you reach your full potential, hell no. Plain and simple. Nothing to argue here. If you want a real debate, quit bringing up midgets in wheel chair that eats cheezits all day while doing head stands on monkey bars.

    Hard to follow? Now try rereading all your posts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Your an idiot. your two way logic is that of a field mouse. You are trying to discredit the rule with the exception to the rule. Can you grow without them? Sure. Can you reach your full potential, hell no. Plain and simple. Nothing to argue here. If you want a real debate, quit bringing up midgets in wheel chair that eats cheezits all day while doing head stands on monkey bars.

    Hard to follow? Now try rereading all your posts.
    Lmao! Trying to discredit the rule? This is from my very first post in the thread:

    "My personal position is that they are incredibly useful in doing so and almost everybody should have them in their routine..."

    "They're incredibly useful and most people should be doing them..."

    As I said... READ.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    Lmao! Trying to discredit the rule? This is from my very first post in the thread:

    "My personal position is that they are incredibly useful in doing so and almost everybody should have them in their routine..."

    "They're incredibly useful and most people should be doing them..."

    As I said... READ.
    Now reread your 40 other idiotic posts. Seriously, are you schizo? Your posts are ass backwards.

    Squats are good, deadlifts are great... but how do quadriplegics grow muscles on their eyebrows?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Now reread your 40 other idiotic posts. Seriously, are you schizo? Your posts are ass backwards.

    Squats are good, deadlifts are great... but how do quadriplegics grow muscles on their eyebrows?
    No, you simply seem unable to read. I have repeatedy said squats and deads are amazing, you just seem to be ignoring this in favour of focussing on the fact I have said it's possible to develop with other movements as well, and somehow interpreting this as "nobody should ever squat and dead."

    It seems to me more that you're illiterate than I'm schizo.

    Seriously, find me ONE post where I have said squats and deads aren't in general amazing movements. Just ONE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    No, you simply seem unable to read. I have repeatedy said squats and deads are amazing, you just seem to be ignoring this in favour of focussing on the fact I have said it's possible to develop with other movements as well, and somehow interpreting this as "nobody should ever squat and dead."

    It seems to me more that you're illiterate than I'm schizo.

    Seriously, find me ONE post where I have said squats and deads aren't in general amazing movements. Just ONE.
    HOLY ****. Your logic hurts even through the intertubes. You right now say squats and dead's are amazing, then you throw out little gems about tall people and paraplegics. WHO CARES about the tall and handicapped? A NORMAL HEALTHY person that wants to grow to their max potential needs to dead and squat. Talking to you is like talking to a parrot.
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    And please inform me why you brought this useless drivel and your cluttered logic to this board? Why not keep your posts elsewhere? No need to subject all of us to you.
    The Historic PES Legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    WHO CARES about the tall and handicapped?
    Are you serious? Hmmmm, maybe because people with disproportionate limb lengths and physical disabilities lift too? And when the thread is about whether or not it's possible to grow without certain movements, those people are relevant?
    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    A NORMAL HEALTHY person that wants to grow to their max potential needs to dead and squat.
    That's certainly the case for most people I agree, as I've said multiple times.
    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Talking to you is like talking to a parrot.
    Dude, you're the one who can't simply respond to the questions I've asked.
  28. Squelchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    And please inform me why you brought this useless drivel and your cluttered logic to this board? Why not keep your posts elsewhere? No need to subject all of us to you.
    I thought people here might be intelligent enough to actually respond to the questions I asked instead of going on about crap I never even said. Obviously not. In your case, at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    I thought people here might be intelligent enough to actually respond to the questions I asked instead of going on about crap I never even said. Obviously not. In your case, at least.
    Bring a logical linear argument. There is nothing logical or linear in this thread. Again, you are arguing exceptions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Bring a logical linear argument. There is nothing logical or linear in this thread. Again, you are arguing exceptions.
    Wow, you really aren't playing, you genuinely don't understand, do you? The entire POINT of this thread is that there are exceptions to the rule and that some people won't grow optimally with squats are deads and that they aren't ESSENTIAL. I explained this clearly in my first post.

    If you still don't understand that then I don't really know what else to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    Wow, you really aren't playing, you genuinely don't understand, do you? The entire POINT of this thread is that there are exceptions to the rule and that some people won't grow optimally with squats are deads and that they aren't ESSENTIAL. I explained this clearly in my first post.

    If you still don't understand that then I don't really know what else to say.
    How is this for answering all your posts then.

    Even if you are tall, it is ESSENTIAL to do squats and dead-lifts to reach your MAX potential. Why you bring up people who do not have legs is beyond me. That is what you call a straw man argument. Setting up an argument that is quite weak but cannot be proven or dis proven. Your logical fallacy's are abundant throughout this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    How is this for answering all your posts then.

    Even if you are tall, it is ESSENTIAL to do squats and dead-lifts to reach your MAX potential.
    Whilst I don't agree this is true for absolutely everyone, it at least pretty much addresses most of what I've been asking people to respond to so thank you for that at least. However, the thing is I agree with it (for the overwhelming majority of people, although not absolutely everyone).
    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Why you bring up people who do not have legs is beyond me. That is what you call a straw man argument. Setting up an argument that is quite weak but cannot be proven or dis proven. Your logical fallacy's are abundant throughout this thread.
    I bring up people with no legs because the point which was originally being debated was do you need to squat and dead to grow (are they ESSENTIAL). Paraplegic bodybuilders prove that no, they aren't essential to grow. So yes, that can be proven by real world examples of paraplegic bodybuilders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    Whilst I don't agree this is true for absolutely everyone, it at least pretty much addresses most of what I've been asking people to respond to so thank you for that at least. However, the thing is I agree with it (for the overwhelming majority of people, although not absolutely everyone).

    I bring up people with no legs because the point which was originally being debated was do you need to squat and dead to grow (are they ESSENTIAL). Paraplegic bodybuilders prove that no, they aren't essential to grow. So yes, that can be proven by real world examples of paraplegic bodybuilders.
    I said squat and dead to reach your MAX potential.. IF you have legs. If you do not have legs, your max potential changes. The whole part of essential become negated when a person can not utilize said exercises.
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    You may have said that, but if you had bothered to read my original post you would have seen I asked if they were essential, not essential TO REACH YOUR MAX POTENTIAL.

    And as for that point, Dorian dropped squats and progressed even further, so they COULDN'T take him all the way to his max potential, he needed something else. No doubt they helped get him an incredible way, but they DIDN'T take him to his max potential.
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    ok so its possible to get big without squats or deadlifts because we now have machines and different exercises that mimic the movement in those exercises so yes if you workout legs doing similar movement and lower back i think you could still be huge now lets stop this stupid thread please
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    GUYS STOP TALKING TO SQUELCHY.. HE'S AN IDIOT.. HE'S PROBABLY GUNNA REPLY TO THIS WITH A QUESTION ABOUT PARAPLEGICS

    JUST LET HIM BE!
    WE KNOW WE'RE RIGHT haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanlambo View Post
    ok so its possible to get big without squats or deadlifts because we now have machines and different exercises that mimic the movement in those exercises so yes if you workout legs doing similar movement and lower back i think you could still be huge now lets stop this stupid thread please
    What are you talking about? No machine replicates a square and/or a deadlift. There are machines that TRY, but they are definitely not successful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    GUYS STOP TALKING TO SQUELCHY.. HE'S AN IDIOT.. HE'S PROBABLY GUNNA REPLY TO THIS WITH A QUESTION ABOUT PARAPLEGICS

    JUST LET HIM BE!
    WE KNOW WE'RE RIGHT haha
    Who's "we?"

    For example in that other thread you were talking about how amazing Mooch was, yet when he really listened to what I was actually saying he said "okay...then we agree."

    So you disagree with him as well then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    Who's "we?"

    For example in that other thread you were talking about how amazing Mooch was, yet when he really listened to what I was actually saying he said "okay...then we agree."

    So you disagree with him as well then?
    ... i put how he said they were essential. and another guy said he knew what he was talking about..

    i'm almost willing to say i agree with u to shut u the hell up now.

    how f|_|cking gay are u that you have to sit on here all day and keep arguing the same point.. enough!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    You may have said that, but if you had bothered to read my original post you would have seen I asked if they were essential, not essential TO REACH YOUR MAX POTENTIAL.

    And as for that point, Dorian dropped squats and progressed even further, so they COULDN'T take him all the way to his max potential, he needed something else. No doubt they helped get him an incredible way, but they DIDN'T take him to his max potential.
    o and when i was arguing my point on the other forum, from the start i said they were essential to maximizing potential in all workouts. so you've been arguing all this time for nothing

    to be in exact words cuz u will find a way to say suttin stupid.. i said they increase the rate of growth, even exponentially as i feel in my case.
  

  
 

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