Squats and deadlifts - ESSENTIAL? Aid in debate

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    "are you in loser denial or something?"

    billymadison
    Right, and what exactly did he disagree with? He didn't say he disagreed with anything, did he? No, he didn't.

    It's hilarious, not one person has actually answered even one of the questions I've asked, which I will now repeat for newcomers.

    1) Should EVERYBODY be squatting and deadlifting, regardless or the shape of their body, muscle dominances, weaknesses, flexibility issues, etc?

    2) Are there ANY exceptions to the 'rule' where squats and deadlifts will give you better gains than any other exercises?

    3) Is it possibe to grow without squats and deads?

    Simple questions yet nobody has answered them. Gee, wonder why?


  2. Since a lot of people seem to be struggling not to go off on a tangent, here are some simple statements. If you agree with all of them you agree with me. If not, explain which ones you disagree with and why.

    1) Back squats and conventional deadlifts are amazing mass building movements that most people will grow extremely well from.

    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    3) It is not absolutely necessary to squat and deadlift to build muscle, although in almost every case it helps

    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    Simple agree or disagree answers to these statements are all that is necessary. If you agree with them then you agree with me. Simple.
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  3. omg dude stop.. i'm not even gunna read that

    UR SO ANNOYING

  4. Quote Originally Posted by meathed View Post
    Really? What about a Hobbit crossed with a duck-Billed Platypus, who does not have any arms and strangely webbed feet fixed at a 87.668 degree angle? Surely that would fit the criteria.
    bahaha this guys great.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    omg dude stop.. i'm not even gunna read that

    UR SO ANNOYING
    If you're not even going to be civil or intelligent enough to read what I post in order to logically disagree with it (or not) then why are you bothering to post?
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  6. so just to clarify...Dorian did in fact squat for many years and then stop doing them later on. Many, many bodybuilders stop squatting after developing sufficient leg mass.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    If you're not even going to be civil or intelligent enough to read what I post in order to logically disagree with it (or not) then why are you bothering to post?
    cuz its over, u need to let it go now.. AM has spoken.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    so just to clarify...Dorian did in fact squat for many years and then stop doing them later on. Many, many bodybuilders stop squatting after developing sufficient leg mass.
    and thank you again, your a boss.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    so just to clarify...Dorian did in fact squat for many years and then stop doing them later on. Many, many bodybuilders stop squatting after developing sufficient leg mass.
    So, just to clarify, that fits in exactly with what I was saying.

    Gosh, what a surprise.

  10. Again, please respond with correct or incorrect answers to these statements:

    1) Back squats and conventional deadlifts are amazing mass building movements that most people will grow extremely well from.

    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    3) It is not absolutely necessary to squat and deadlift to build muscle, although in almost every case it helps

    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

  11. "I have given several examples to prove my point. One such eample was Dorian Yates, 6 time Olympia winner who at 5'10" stood on stage at an unbelievably lean and dry 260+lbs. Apparently this example is somehow invalid because he's an "old" bodybuilder, as if this somehow invalidates his insane size that he built without squats and deadlifts."

    here is what you said in your opening statement, notice the part that i have so thoughtfully bolded for you. You say dorian built his six time olympia physique without squats and deadlifts.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    "I have given several examples to prove my point. One such eample was Dorian Yates, 6 time Olympia winner who at 5'10" stood on stage at an unbelievably lean and dry 260+lbs. Apparently this example is somehow invalid because he's an "old" bodybuilder, as if this somehow invalidates his insane size that he built without squats and deadlifts."

    here is what you said in your opening statement, notice the part that i have so thoughtfully bolded for you. You say dorian built his six time olympia physique without squats and deadlifts.
    And he did. He improved his size beyond his initial wins WITHOUT squats and deadlifts. Gosh, imagine that. He grew even further without squats and deadlifts. What a shocker.

    And again, why are you ignoring my statements? If you're not afraid of agreeing with me why don't you simply answer what I'm asking you?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    Please point out where one person has directly disgreed with something I have said. Quotations should be easy to provide.
    Dont squat then, tell more people not to. Fine by me.

    Less traffic in the squat rack for me.

    That doesnt mean do ****ing curls in the squat rack either.

    Unsubbing. This thread is a waste of time.

    Anyone that doesnt include squats and deads into there workout program, at least perodically, is missing out on 2 of the 3 major compound lifts.

    There have been countless studies showing the effects on testosterone and IGF with squats to even waste another minute on this topic.

    The below is ONE study done on the eccentric portion of the squats, my personal favorite. I see the most growth going slow on the negative and doing statics.....Though it is very grueling thus requires more diligence and effort in the recovery stages.

    Point in question-

    Kristofer's Fat-azz Recomp with GLYCOBOL


    Out!.

  14. oh...i thought that i was making that clear. I believe that squats and deads are ESSENTIAL....at least in the beginning. When your 250-260 and lean, you can do whatever the fu#k you want to after that. My point is Dorian gained his size from squatting and then changed to other movements later to work on different aspects of his leg development. But had he not squatted religously for years he never would have been the champoin that he was.

  15. you really need to do yourself a favor...watch this video, all the way through.


  16. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Dont squat then, tell more people not to. Fine by me.
    Neither of these things are things I have said. I do in fact squat, nor have I told other people not to, so I have no idea why you think I have said either of these things unless you can't read.
    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    oh...i thought that i was making that clear. I believe that squats and deads are ESSENTIAL....at least in the beginning. When your 250-260 and lean, you can do whatever the fu#k you want to after that. My point is Dorian gained his size from squatting and then changed to other movements later to work on different aspects of his leg development. But had he not squatted religously for years he never would have been the champoin that he was.
    OK, thank you for this response at least, this makes your opinion much clearer. I wonder if Dorian would agree with you? That being the case, if squats and deads are ESSENTIAL, how do you account for paraplegic bodybuilders who are unable to do either of these?

    Also, perhaps you could do me the honour of responding to the five statements that I have now posted twice.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    OK, thank you for this response at least, this makes your opinion much clearer. I wonder if Dorian would agree with you? That being the case, if squats and deads are ESSENTIAL, how do you account for paraplegic bodybuilders who are unable to do either of these?
    HERE HE GOES AGAIN WITH THE DAMN PARAPLEGICS

  18. Just say when on the neg train, and Im in.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    HERE HE GOES AGAIN WITH THE DAMN PARAPLEGICS
    Yes, because if squats and deads were essential to building muscle (look the word up) then that means paraplegic bodybuilders couldn't have gained a single ounce of muscle. What about that is hard to understand?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Just say when on the neg train, and Im in.
    negged him haha

  21. Why are you so afraid to respond to my questions?

    Please respond with correct or incorrect answers to these statements:

    1) Back squats and conventional deadlifts are amazing mass building movements that most people will grow extremely well from.

    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    3) It is not absolutely necessary to squat and deadlift to build muscle, although in almost every case it helps

    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    6) Squats and deads are essential, therefore paraplegic bodybuilders do not exist and are completely imaginary.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Ju1cedUp View Post
    negged him haha
    Oh my God, noooooo! You.... negged me? My life is completely over!

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    Oh my God, noooooo! You.... negged me? My life is completely over!
    go sit on a d1ck and bounce

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Squelchy View Post
    Why are you so afraid to respond to my questions?

    Please respond with correct or incorrect answers to these statements:

    1) Back squats and conventional deadlifts are amazing mass building movements that most people will grow extremely well from.

    True

    2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    True

    3) It is not absolutely necessary to squat and deadlift to build muscle, although in almost every case it helps

    Trick question. One CAN build muscle without a doubt. But why half-ass it? I mean really. There is too much evidence out there to over look compound lifts such as these.

    4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

    Each individual has his/her own limits. These other lifts are trying to replace the squat and dead. Better results?, if the squat and and deads are done properly, NO WAY.

    5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

    Same question? WTF dude? NO.

    6) Squats and deads are essential, therefore paraplegic bodybuilders do not exist and are completely imaginary.

    Nice, now you have included the physically challenged in this debate.
    Have you no shame?

    Answered. Negged and I am out for good.

  25. Why are you guys still so afraid of addressing my numbered points?
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