Natty Supplement stacks

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  1. Hey Dream Weaver,

    I was thinking of bulking soon but would like to stay completely natural. Allowed Trib but nothing methyl. I was thinking of trying the Asteroid Stack with the addition of P Slin or should I go with Diesel Test Pro Cycle. The other stack I was looking at was Drive by Applied Nutra, Primal Male by Man Sports and Mass Fx by Anabolic Extreme. I like the Asteroid choice with the P Slin the BEST but I was wondering if you have heard anything about these others products?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by steveo87 View Post
    Hey Dream Weaver,

    I was thinking of bulking soon but would like to stay completely natural. Allowed Trib but nothing methyl. I was thinking of trying the Asteroid Stack with the addition of P Slin or should I go with Diesel Test Pro Cycle. The other stack I was looking at was Drive by Applied Nutra, Primal Male by Man Sports and Mass Fx by Anabolic Extreme. I like the Asteroid choice with the P Slin the BEST but I was wondering if you have heard anything about these others products?
    yah I run that as often as I can... use the plsin pre-workout and or on higher carb days for refeeds.

    Check this out of a pre-workout protocol Get super Swole with the DOUBLE CARB load Protocol Designed by MulletSoldier
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Prime doesn't even boost test it's completely non-hormonal....
    Someone listed in the product feedback on Nutraplanet for Prime that it gave them gyno and now they needed surgery. Were they lying?

  4. Thanks for the link I am going to try that for sure. If I do decide to use the USP products which I think I will in the next couple of months or so. I am going to follow that proticol or something of that natural. Right now I take Vaso Charge Pre Workout with 2 scoops of Xtend and 4 scoops Xtend during workout. I think with the addition of all the carbs and the P SLin this would an amazing combination.

    Do you know anyone who has used Diesel Test Pro Cycle or The other stack I suggested?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by b18cyaaa View Post
    Someone listed in the product feedback on Nutraplanet for Prime that it gave them gyno and now they needed surgery. Were they lying?
    That would be my guess...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug
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  6. Would Dermacrine be considered natural? Its dhea and resveratrol.

  7. bro, last time i checked the INBF and the NGA banned list they both had DHEA listed as a banned substance i'm pretty sure.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by pinchharmonic View Post
    bro, last time i checked the INBF and the NGA banned list they both had DHEA listed as a banned substance i'm pretty sure.
    I was just curious if it was considered natural. Im not a bodybuilder.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Hoopie View Post
    Here's my stack

    AAEFX Stack
    2-HBM in a.m.
    2-tribulus in a.m.
    LBA Pro- 3-4 times a day
    Cell Rush- pre/post w/o
    Kre-Generator-post w/o
    NF Pro- throughout the day and post w/o
    Kre-Alkalyn- 1 post w/o
    Ditto

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Hoopie View Post
    Here's my stack

    AAEFX Stack
    2-HBM in a.m.
    2-tribulus in a.m.
    LBA Pro- 3-4 times a day
    Cell Rush- pre/post w/o
    Kre-Generator-post w/o
    NF Pro- throughout the day and post w/o
    Kre-Alkalyn- 1 post w/o
    Hoop, have you tried using the Kre-Generator pre-workout as well? If not, you should give it a try! GOOD STUFF!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by bigmoe65 View Post
    I was just curious if it was considered natural. Im not a bodybuilder.
    I think this is a tricky question simply because just because something is natural doesn't mean anything really other than it occurs in nature. Insulin and testosterone naturally occur in the body, but injecting them would be considered enhancement by most people. My advice would be to do some research and determine if the risks are worth the benefits for you and the make a decision based upon how you feel about it.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    superman stack-

    here is how i dosed it.....

    Stoked- 2 am 2 pm
    AX, 1 am ,1 noon, 2 preworkout/5pm
    LX, 1 am, 1 noon, 1 PM
    ZMA-1 serving right before bed.

    Superman Stack for buddy
    Not to call you out or anything but I wouldn't consider LX natty. 7-OH and 5-AT both have a steroidal composition. Yes they aren't considered anabolics but I think they both work via directly acting on hormones, hence considering them not natty. What do you think?

    I've tried to do so much research as I can on these two components. 7-OH I may stray because it is a metabolite of DHEA but as for 5-AT I don't think I can let it slide. If I were you I'd replace LX with VAT Attack! Trust me, from someone who has regrettedly ran LX not knowing too much about it, VAT Attack! delivers just as good...naturally.

    Don't get me wrong, LX def. works but at the time I was convinced that it was non-hormonal, but I beg to differ now. I am a hardcore advocate for the natty BBer and feel tainted after using LX, just because I am that strict about the structures of some compounds. And again not to sound like a **** but if someone says "well cholesterol is a steroid..." my answer is simple, dietary cholesterol is not the same as synthetic steroids.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    Not to call you out or anything but I wouldn't consider LX natty. 7-OH and 5-AT both have a steroidal composition. Yes they aren't considered anabolics but I think they both work via directly acting on hormones, hence considering them not natty. What do you think?

    I've tried to do so much research as I can on these two components. 7-OH I may stray because it is a metabolite of DHEA but as for 5-AT I don't think I can let it slide. If I were you I'd replace LX with VAT Attack! Trust me, from someone who has regrettedly ran LX not knowing too much about it, VAT Attack! delivers just as good...naturally.

    Don't get me wrong, LX def. works but at the time I was convinced that it was non-hormonal, but I beg to differ now. I am a hardcore advocate for the natty BBer and feel tainted after using LX, just because I am that strict about the structures of some compounds. And again not to sound like a **** but if someone says "well cholesterol is a steroid..." my answer is simple, dietary cholesterol is not the same as synthetic steroids.

    Thanks for the info........

    Has anyone tested positive in ANY "Natural" organization for DHEA via Lean Xtreme?

    Please post references.

    Again, I appreciate the info and the offer of an alternative to LX.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by slackadjuster View Post
    Okay all you naturals.. (or OTC bodybuilders)

    What stacks are working for you?

    Even the not so naturals...Chime in too. I'd like to see the difference between the supplement stacks. I wonder if the basics are much different?
    My 'staples' are:
    * Creatine (NeoVar Recomped or Cre-02)
    * Multivitamin
    * Antioxidant
    * Good Fats (flaxseed or hempseed oil or fish oils)
    * Protein Powder (that includes BCAAs in)
    * OsteoSport
    * Lipotrophin-PM
    * IGF-2
    * DCP

    I 'cycle' RPM (12 weeks on/1-2 weeks off) and Drive (8-10 weeks on/2-4 weeks off) throughout the year.

    IGF-2 is my favourite supplement, as it keeps me relatively lean whilst allowing for muscle accretion. I almost never stop using it and when I do I notice the difference BIG time!

    The best stack I ever used re gaining muscle was:
    * Activate Xtreme
    * Drive
    * IGF-2
    * NeoVar Recomped
    * RPM
    * OsteoSport


    Quote Originally Posted by b18cyaaa View Post
    I don't understand how all these test boosters that can give you all sorts of side effects are considered "natural." Something natural is not going to give you gyno.
    As already mentioned, NATURAL testosterone boosters are NOT going to give you gyno and they do not have any side effects either aside from perhaps acne or nausea (if they contain icarrin).


    Quote Originally Posted by bigmoe65 View Post
    Would Dermacrine be considered natural? Its dhea and resveratrol.
    Dermacrine would NOT be considered natural, as DHEA is a hormonal precursor.


    Quote Originally Posted by pinchharmonic View Post
    bro, last time i checked the INBF and the NGA banned list they both had DHEA listed as a banned substance i'm pretty sure.
    DHEA (and all other hormonal precursors) are banned in the Natural Federations. However, 7-Keto DHEA (i.e. 7-OXO DHEA), 7alphaOH-DHEA, and 7beta-OH-DHEA, as the ONLY exceptions, ARE ALLOWED in the Pro Natural Federations and have been since 2007!

    See link below for the Natural Federations' "Banned Substances" list.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Thanks for the info........

    Has anyone tested positive in ANY "Natural" organization for DHEA via Lean Xtreme?

    Please post references.

    Again, I appreciate the info and the offer of an alternative to LX.
    You would NOT test positive after having used Lean Xtreme, as 7-OXO DHEA and 7-OH DHEA are NOT "banned substances".

    Reference: LIST OF WNBF BANNED SUBSTANCES
    Quote Originally Posted by LIST OF WNBF BANNED SUBSTANCES
    7-oxo-DHEA (also known as 7-keto-DHEA), 7alpha-hydroxy-DHEA (7alphaOH-DHEA) and 7beta-hydroxy-DHEA (7beta-OH-DHEA) are not banned by the WNBF or INBF when used for weight loss. Although hormonal metabolites of DHEA, they do not elevate testosterone levels and can be used by WNBF or INBF athletes.
    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT
    Athlete ~ Trainer ~ Writer
    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - @rosiecheewarrior

    Contact [email protected] for INDIVIDUALIZED Fitness Management
    Motivation. Knowledge. Results.
    www.rosiesmusclerevolution.com

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    My 'staples' are:
    * Creatine (NeoVar Recomped or Cre-02)
    * Multivitamin
    * Antioxidant
    * Good Fats (flaxseed or hempseed oil or fish oils)
    * Protein Powder (that includes BCAAs in)
    * OsteoSport
    * Lipotrophin-PM
    * IGF-2
    * DCP

    I 'cycle' RPM (12 weeks on/1-2 weeks off) and Drive (8-10 weeks on/2-4 weeks off) throughout the year.

    IGF-2 is my favourite supplement, as it keeps me relatively lean whilst allowing for muscle accretion. I almost never stop using it and when I do I notice the difference BIG time!

    The best stack I ever used re gaining muscle was:
    * Activate Xtreme
    * Drive
    * IGF-2
    * NeoVar Recomped
    * RPM
    * OsteoSport




    As already mentioned, NATURAL testosterone boosters are NOT going to give you gyno and they do not have any side effects either aside from perhaps acne or nausea (if they contain icarrin).




    Dermacrine would NOT be considered natural, as DHEA is a hormonal precursor.




    DHEA (and all other hormonal precursors) are banned in the Natural Federations. However, 7-Keto DHEA (i.e. 7-OXO DHEA), 7alphaOH-DHEA, and 7beta-OH-DHEA, as the ONLY exceptions, ARE ALLOWED in the Pro Natural Federations and have been since 2007!

    See attachment for the Natural Federations' "Banned Substances" list.




    You would NOT test positive after having used Lean Xtreme, as 7-OXO DHEA and 7-OH DHEA are NOT "banned substances".
    Reference: LIST OF WNBF BANNED SUBSTANCES


    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT
    thank you!!

    F355 please take notice of the large bold statement.

    lol

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    thank you!!

    F355 please take notice of the large bold statement.

    lol
    OK, first of all the PDF attached to Guejsn's post should be taken out because that list clearly states that 7-OH is banned as of 01/01/07 with the overall status of the list being effective 01/01/09. While the link to the WNBF's List of Banned Substances on their website is effective as of 09/02/09 and they have listed both isomers of 7-OH as acceptable, so I won't argue that. But I would request to have the PDF list taken out because that's misleading.

    With that said, I even stated that 7-OH isn't anabolic.

    But that isn't the arguement here (not that I'm trying to argue). Both isomers of 7-OH are DHEA metabolites, and are HORMONAL. The only reason that the WNBF is accepting them is because they SPECIFICALLY do not raise testosterone. That doesn't mean they aren't hormonal though; rather than enhancing testosterone they respond to cortisol. Don't forget Lean Xtreme also contains 5-AT (5-Androstenetriol). Again not considered ANABOLIC, but I'd like to know the status of it in the WNBF.

    The OP requested info on natty supplement stacks. If both isomers of 7-OH DHEA are considered hormonal, why would I advise him to use such compounds? Just because it's not banned, it's considered natty? No.

    I'm only enlightening information on these compounds, not telling people to avoid them. The area of PH's and precursors is very sketchy because companies will try their hardest to manipulate the write-up to sound non-hormonal. I just don't want people on here getting misleaded as I have in the past, that's all.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    OK, first of all the PDF attached to Guejsn's post should be taken out because that list clearly states that 7-OH is banned as of 01/01/07 with the overall status of the list being effective 01/01/09. While the link to the WNBF's List of Banned Substances on their website is effective as of 09/02/09 and they have listed both isomers of 7-OH as acceptable, so I won't argue that. But I would request to have the PDF list taken out because that's misleading.

    With that said, I even stated that 7-OH isn't anabolic.

    But that isn't the arguement here (not that I'm trying to argue). Both isomers of 7-OH are DHEA metabolites, and are HORMONAL. The only reason that the WNBF is accepting them is because they SPECIFICALLY do not raise testosterone. That doesn't mean they aren't hormonal though; rather than enhancing testosterone they respond to cortisol. Don't forget Lean Xtreme also contains 5-AT (5-Androstenetriol). Again not considered ANABOLIC, but I'd like to know the status of it in the WNBF.

    The OP requested info on natty supplement stacks. If both isomers of 7-OH DHEA are considered hormonal, why would I advise him to use such compounds? Just because it's not banned, it's considered natty? No.

    I'm only enlightening information on these compounds, not telling people to avoid them. The area of PH's and precursors is very sketchy because companies will try their hardest to manipulate the write-up to sound non-hormonal. I just don't want people on here getting misleaded as I have in the past, that's all.

    really, your calling LX out, but you dont know pertinent information about it.........lol

    I would venture to say, if one wants to stay "natty" I would stick with protein and vitamins..........

    The term natural is loose anyways. IMO

    thanks again for your time and the information.......

  18. Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    ...Don't forget Lean Xtreme also contains 5-AT (5-Androstenetriol). Again not considered ANABOLIC, but I'd like to know the status of it in the WNBF...
    5-AT is 7-OXO DHEA, which, as stated, is fine for use in the WNBF.

    Lean Xtreme as a product is ok for use, and that comes from the head man himself.


    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT
    Athlete ~ Trainer ~ Writer
    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - @rosiecheewarrior

    Contact [email protected] for INDIVIDUALIZED Fitness Management
    Motivation. Knowledge. Results.
    www.rosiesmusclerevolution.com

  19. good info on here, very helpful, my everyday supplements are
    ON 100 whey gold standard
    4everfit glutamine
    4everfit creatine mono
    creatine ethyl ester
    opti-men
    ON glucosamine
    ON bcaa
    so far great results, strength gains have been somewhat unbelievable, i must have good genes, ive been working out maybe 3 years now and my bench is up to 365, and i can rep out 365 easily on squats

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    really, your calling LX out, but you dont know pertinent information about it.........lol

    I would venture to say, if one wants to stay "natty" I would stick with protein and vitamins..........

    The term natural is loose anyways. IMO

    thanks again for your time and the information.......
    This thread is about natty supps not what compounds are acceptable in the WNBF, you're calling me out because I don't know so-called pertinent information about the organization's banned substance list.

    As for LX, I'm not calling it out. Where in any of my posts show that I don't know pertinent information about it's ingredients? I even stated that this has nothing to do with the WNBF now since it's updated list has both 7-OH isomers as legal.

    And I'm not convinced that 7-Keto is the same as 5-AT; whether or not 5-AT is acceptable on WNBF's list. They're both noticeably different in structure. 7-Keto has two double bonded keto groups where has 5-AT has three hydroxy groups.

    But whatever; Guejsn, you state that Lean Xtreme as a product is fine for use in the WNBF so I'll just leave it at that.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    This thread is about natty supps not what compounds are acceptable in the WNBF, you're calling me out because I don't know so-called pertinent information about the organization's banned substance list.

    As for LX, I'm not calling it out. Where in any of my posts show that I don't know pertinent information about it's ingredients? I even stated that this has nothing to do with the WNBF now since it's updated list has both 7-OH isomers as legal.

    And I'm not convinced that 7-Keto is the same as 5-AT; whether or not 5-AT is acceptable on WNBF's list. They're both noticeably different in structure. 7-Keto has two double bonded keto groups where has 5-AT has three hydroxy groups.

    But whatever; Guejsn, you state that Lean Xtreme as a product is fine for use in the WNBF so I'll just leave it at that.

    Define "Natty"...........Please.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Define "Natty"...........Please.
    IMO, anything that isn't a PH/DS or hormone derivative.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    IMO, anything that isn't a PH/DS or hormone derivative.
    thank you for your opinon.

    Now,

    IMO, If the WORLD NATURAL BODYBUILDING FEDERATION allows there members to use a product, i would consider it natty.

    Go figure.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    thank you for you opinon.

    Now,

    IMO, If the WORLD NATURAL BODYBUILDING FEDERATION allows there members to use a product, i would consider it natty.

    Go figure.
    LMAO touche. Can't and will not argue with it there Kristofer, to each his own.

    Now I know I'm venturing this thread out of topic but one last thing...

    There's another natural organization that has its own stance on banned substances, FAME (sanctioned by WNSO), in which I'd like to know about DHEA metabolite compounds and it's legality in the competition. Although they don't have a definitive list (which I think they should), I'd like to see what you think of it. Check it out

    WNSO's stance on banned substances

    Specifically take note on these two paragraphs

    "...Make no mistake, using products containing these OTC steroids can and will cause you to test positive for banned substances. When your body metabolizes these steroids, chemicals called metabolites are left in your body. The metabolites from these OTC steroids are often chemically similar or even identical to the metabolites left by prescription steroids.

    Drug tests look for the metabolites left in your body after using steroids, and a drug test will not be able to tell the difference between an OTC steroid and a prescription steroid. Your test will will simply come back positive for steroids and you will be banned from competition. If you use OTC steroids, you are using steroids. Make no mistake about it!"

    Again, this is all in neutral discussion and I'd like to know how you and others feel about that. Wouldn't using DHEA metablolites result in a positive test according to WNSO's screenings?

    This exactly why I'm so cautious about anything related to steroids because I hope to one day compete in FAME, it's an aspiring goal of mine.

  25. F355, if you want to know about ANY product and whether it is safe or not for use in the Natural Federations then the EASIEST thing to do is ask someone from the Federation (I ask the boss, since going straight to the top is always the best way to go) if it is ok; they will give you a definitive answer on a product-by-product basis for those that you are "confused" about.

    If you are interested in WNSO and FAME, then email Jefferey Kippel ([email protected]) or Mindy Blackstein ([email protected]), the founders and co-presidents of the Organization, re any product queries.


    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT
    Athlete ~ Trainer ~ Writer
    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - @rosiecheewarrior

    Contact [email protected] for INDIVIDUALIZED Fitness Management
    Motivation. Knowledge. Results.
    www.rosiesmusclerevolution.com
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